Fixing Thai education is not just a matter of money

[snoop1130]

 

When it comes to the budget for education, figures can be deceptive. Under the budget bill, which was debated in the House of Representatives last week, the Education Ministry has been allocated as much as 300 billion baht — one of the largest for the 2024 fiscal year. This has, however, once again revived the perennial question as to why, with such huge budget, the quality of Thai education still leaves much to be desired.

 

Kraiyos Patrawart, managing director of the Equitable Education Fund (EEF) Thailand pointed to critical spots in Thai education that need to be addressed.

 

In an interview with Thai PBS World, he agreed that Thailand has sufficient budget for education, as it is equivalent to 5% of GDP, which is an average international standard, according to the OECD.

 

Full story: Thai PBS 2024-01-18

 

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[GammaGlobulin]

Very interesting Topic!

 

Somehow, a more dedicated ethos involving the importance of education, reading, diligence, homework, study, and a more STEM-oriented curriculum, needs to be instilled in all children from a very early age.

 

The Chinese can do it, and are doing it, and have been doing it for hundreds of years.

 

If the Chinese are able to do it, then everyone can just follow their lead.

 

Simple.

 

 

[2baht]

They need to take a look the antiquated culture and maybe consider times change, unfortunately face will be the underlying factor whatever the outcome!

[retarius]

Sadly, it's not just money. You need good teachers and teaching colleges that instruct them. You need a good syllabus to challenge the students a bit. You also need to throw all this computer and tablet rubbish out of the schools (for the under 12s at least). You can't have a  decent edumacation system if it is simply to teach kids deference to their betters.

 

Prayut's magical reforms achieved exactly nothing, but Thailand needs for its kids' sakes, to get dinosaurs like Prayut (anybody who was appointed to the Senate) totally out of the reform process otherwise you'll end up with the same old <deleted>e. 

 

My suggestion is to actually spend some time diagnosing the problems that can be solved and making trackable action plans to fix them. I'd get some experts in from Scandinavia and actually follow their advice. You ask what is wrong with Thai edumacation? Everything it seems if these message boards are correct. 

[dinsdale]

It is a matter of money to a large extent. It is a matter of money being taken out of the system it's meant for and being put into pockets.

[bamnutsak]

Peel 30% off the top for graft, theft, and kickbacks.

 

It's not the most corrupt ministry; seems like everyone feasts on this one unlike the usual where only a few top dogs get the bulk of the skim.

 

That's why the comparisons with other countries' metrics (money spent/results) are so bad for Thailand. But then this is the goal, so let's give them a Thai "A" as a grade. A Thai "A" is a D+.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited January 18 by bamnutsak

[Negita43]

My experience as a former English/Business/IT teacher in Thailand is that the system is a triumph of superficiality over substance.

Not all, but many students want the piece of paper saying "A" without having to do anything to get it and many of them do not see the use of learning English for example.

It's all about that piece of paper not the knowledge.

[Gottfrid]

3 hours ago, GammaGlobulin said:

Very interesting Topic!

 

Somehow, a more dedicated ethos involving the importance of education, reading, diligence, homework, study, and a more STEM-oriented curriculum, needs to be instilled in all children from a very early age.

 

The Chinese can do it, and are doing it, and have been doing it for hundreds of years.

 

If the Chinese are able to do it, then everyone can just follow their lead.

 

Simple.

 

 

Yeah, sure! Just look at China and implement their strategies, then everything will be fine. Are you best friend with Mr. Xi J-Ping, by any chance? 

The big problem is parents lack of time, as they rather get lost in their mobile phone world. The result is that also the children start that kind of life and behavior at a far too low age. Even the teachers are sitting with their phones up during the lessons. Simply a lost world, where it more popular to hide in a virtual world, than to live life in reality.

[GammaGlobulin]

7 minutes ago, Gottfrid said:

Yeah, sure! Just look at China and implement their strategies, then everything will be fine. Are you best friend with Mr. Xi J-Ping, by any chance? 

The big problem is parents lack of time, as they rather get lost in their mobile phone world. The result is that also the children start that kind of life and behavior at a far too low age. Even the teachers are sitting with their phones up during the lessons. Simply a lost world, where it more popular to hide in a virtual world, than to live life in reality.

 

Yes.

If only more Thai parents were Chinese parents....

Problem solved in a heartbeat.

(Let me please be slightly facetious, here, if you do not mind.)

 

[Pouatchee]

teacher salaries are a joke.  example of corruption is that the gvt has been allocating 40 000 bht a month in salary for foreigners in gvt schools for at least 20 years. the directors pay 30 000bht avg a month for foreigners and less for philipinos. where is the money going? hmmmm  (before anyone asks where i got the 40k #... i had a friend who worked for the moe and she confided this in me)

salaries advertised have not changed since 2003 when i got here.

 

also, there really is no need to hit any kid cos theyre failing, just keep them back a year or two... but nahhhhh thats too hard on the poor little somchais and nois

Edited January 18 by Pouatchee

[GammaGlobulin]

With regard to formal and informal education in Thailand, I would like to draw the distinction between the typical Apollonian and Dionysian cultures, and the impact these may have upon education outcomes:

 

Let us consider this:

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apollonian_and_Dionysian#:~:text=Anthropologist Ruth Benedict used the,to the Dionysian Kwakiutl people.

 

 

For example, would you consider Thailand's culture to be either Apollonian or Dionysian, or both?

 

Well, of course, one only needs to open one's window on most nights of the week to have an opinion.

And, even if you close your windows, you still might guess.

 

What do you hear:  Thud, Thud, Thud, and THUD....all the livelong day.  In other words, if the music here in Thailand, the thudding sound of it, is so very distracting to most Farang, then what might you imagine is the effect on young minds?  Instead of remaining at home, they are out and about listening to this terrible music, a circumstance almost completely in opposition to quiet study and diligence, and the reading of books.

 

So, parents need to decide for their children:  Do they want their children to grow up as THUDDERS?  Or, do they want their children, at an early age, to gradually become scholars?

 

As for me, when I was young, I read books with minimum time spent thudding.

 

I know this makes sense.

 

So, people should think about it....

 

And, take a lesson.

 

This is not rocket science.

The cause of the problem is evident.

And, the solution to the problem is obvious.

 

Regards,

Gamma

 

 

 

 

[GammaGlobulin]

7 minutes ago, Pouatchee said:

teacher salaries are a joke.  example of corruption is that the gvt has been allocating 40 000 bht a month in salary for foreigners in gvt schools for at least 20 years. the directors pay 30 000bht avg a month for foreigners and less for philipinos. where is the money going? hmmmm  (before anyone asks where i got the 40k #... i had a friend who worked for the moe and she confided this in me)

salaries advertised have not changed since 2003 when i got here.

 

also, there really is no need to hit any kid cos theyre failing, just keep them back a year or two... but nahhhhh thats too hard on the poor little somchais and nois

 

The problem of education does NOT start with teachers.

Everyone needs to understand this elementary concept.

But....

Will they ever?

 

[scorecard]

5 hours ago, 2baht said:

They need to take a look the antiquated culture and maybe consider times change, unfortunately face will be the underlying factor whatever the outcome!

 

Agree, they need to seriously change the foundations and methods (pedagogy) to ensure the end result is comprehensively educated kids capable of and well experienced in discussion, in analysis and in presenting arguments etc. 

 

Vietnam has done just that by copying the whole education system / methods etc., employed in singapore.

 

Yes it would be a big long-term undertaking, but it must be done.

 

And that includes very different training for teachers. It can be done.

Edited January 18 by scorecard

[GammaGlobulin]

5 hours ago, dinsdale said:

It is a matter of money to a large extent.

 

Absolutely...NOT!

 

It is a matter of dedication to learning, and understanding the importance of learning.

And, this is a generational thingy, and a cultural thingy.

 

Nobody loves and respects learning more than the Chinese.

 

Why?

 

Isn't it HIGH TIME that all of us got on the Chinese Bandwagon when it comes to the important Topic of learning?

 

And, how to shift focus of the common hoard, in places like Thailand, to take up the cudgel of learning for learning's sake?

 

This, my friends, is the question.

 

Because, respect for learning and knowledge and curiosity about our world....must begin at an early age, and far before the first year at school.

 

This is a very good Topic.

But, it is not a Topic which can be adequately addressed in just one TV Topic.

 

 

Note:  I LOVE this Topic!

 

 

Edited January 18 by GammaGlobulin

[GammaGlobulin]

55 minutes ago, scorecard said:

Vietnam has done just that by copying the whole education system / methods etc., employed in singapore.

 

Singapore is the PITS of education.

 

Who wants to be a robot?

 

Talk about INSULAR, and exhibiting insular thinking.

 

These Singapore Guys are just too constrained and too narrow minded, in my view.

And, they DO NOT even know it!

 

Take the Cane to Them, is the best way to beat some sense into them, maybe....

 

They have been inculcated in group think.

Beat it out of them with their own canes, is the best solution, maybe...

 

 

[GammaGlobulin]

OK.... FIRST, when considering this Topic, one must define Education!

 

 

Is Education Indoctrination?

 

Or...then....What is it????

 

 

 

I am with Noam!

As usual.

Two very interesting videos from Noam.

 

BUT, please begin by watching the second video I have linked here, if you will.....

IF you will.....

 

 

[dinsdale]

6 hours ago, GammaGlobulin said:

 

Absolutely...NOT!

 

It is a matter of dedication to learning, and understanding the importance of learning.

And, this is a generational thingy, and a cultural thingy.

 

Nobody loves and respects learning more than the Chinese.

 

Why?

 

Isn't it HIGH TIME that all of us got on the Chinese Bandwagon when it comes to the important Topic of learning?

 

And, how to shift focus of the common hoard, in places like Thailand, to take up the cudgel of learning for learning's sake?

 

This, my friends, is the question.

 

Because, respect for learning and knowledge and curiosity about our world....must begin at an early age, and far before the first year at school.

 

This is a very good Topic.

But, it is not a Topic which can be adequately addressed in just one TV Topic.

 

 

Note:  I LOVE this Topic!

 

 

More money actually in the system would mean more teachers , smaller class numbers and tech in all classrooms enabling 21stC teaching. Lessons can be more engaging and learning will increase. 

[hotchilli]

13 hours ago, snoop1130 said:

the Education Ministry has been allocated as much as 300 billion baht — one of the largest for the 2024 fiscal year. This has, however, once again revived the perennial question as to why, with such huge budget, the quality of Thai education still leaves much to be desired.

Because the money is either wasted on an ineffective curriculum, or spirited away into private accounts.

[GammaGlobulin]

22 minutes ago, dinsdale said:

21stC teaching

 

Newton 25 December 1642 – 20 March 1726/27

Leibniz  1646–1716

Goethe 28 August 1749 – 22 March 1832

 

21st Century teaching....Indeed...

 

Rather....

21st Century Schizoid Man, is more like it...

 

 

 

Someday, when you are older, you might gain more perspective and more insight into education, and...by that time...you...might...

Get Educated....

[Andycoops]

It's the whole self serving teacher culture that needs to change but unfortunately the, we've always done it this way culture, will prevail.

Sadly at the expense of the future of children and the nation.

[klauskunkel]

15 hours ago, snoop1130 said:

Kraiyos Patrawart pointed to critical spots in Thai education that need to be addressed.

Where is the pointing picture?

(I'm making a point here...)

[Rumpelstilskin]

12 hours ago, Gottfrid said:

Yeah, sure! Just look at China and implement their strategies, then everything will be fine. Are you best friend with Mr. Xi J-Ping, by any chance? 

The big problem is parents lack of time, as they rather get lost in their mobile phone world. The result is that also the children start that kind of life and behavior at a far too low age. Even the teachers are sitting with their phones up during the lessons. Simply a lost world, where it more popular to hide in a virtual world, than to live life in reality.

So many parents ignoring their children to stare at the phone, as childhood slips away.

[Pouatchee]

10 hours ago, GammaGlobulin said:

 

The problem of education does NOT start with teachers.

Everyone needs to understand this elementary concept.

But....

Will they ever?

 

 

i know and have often expressed the fact that the heads are the problem. but for me, a proper teacher certified in my home country, i will not go work for the pittance they offer anymore. 

 

-incompetent heads who know nothing about teaching or curriculum

-thai teachers who are actually not even teachers and have had no classes in didactics or psychology

----> big one here.... parents who offer no support to their kids once they are past primary one and these parents are now over the cute factor of their kids, but never will they believe that their darling is disruptive or needs outside help

 

I can go on all day...

[lordgrinz]

15 hours ago, 2baht said:

They need to take a look the antiquated culture and maybe consider times change, unfortunately face will be the underlying factor whatever the outcome!

 

You hit the nail on the head, until this changes, nothing changes.

[scorecard]

9 hours ago, GammaGlobulin said:

 

Singapore is the PITS of education.

 

Who wants to be a robot?

 

Talk about INSULAR, and exhibiting insular thinking.

 

These Singapore Guys are just too constrained and too narrow minded, in my view.

And, they DO NOT even know it!

 

Take the Cane to Them, is the best way to beat some sense into them, maybe....

 

They have been inculcated in group think.

Beat it out of them with their own canes, is the best solution, maybe...

 

 

And I don't agree with anything in your post. Nothing.

 

I've worked with my SIngapore colleagues and staff from SIngapore companies and Singapore government many times over many years.

 

Always impressed with their insight, their intelligence, their ability to instantly analyse, their ability to express themselves well and more. 

 

And in recent years I've taught executive masters degree programs at a highly credible uni in Vietnam in English (campus in both Ho Chi Minh City and Hanoi).

 

All students Vietnamese. They have impressed me and the other western professors in every course.  

[GammaGlobulin]

18 minutes ago, NickyLouie said:

 

Noam? When is the last time he had a 22 year old Essan darkling strip off her panties and sit on his face? 

 

Noam is rather an earthy character.

Definitely, he would enjoy it.

Noam has travelled to Thailand, as I recall.

Yet, he rarely talks about his adventures in Isan.

Maybe he wants to keep that part of his life hidden from his students.

Not sure.

 

[scorecard]

49 minutes ago, Rumpelstilskin said:

So many parents ignoring their children to stare at the phone, as childhood slips away.

And often with the parents also staring at their phones. 

[GammaGlobulin]

5 minutes ago, scorecard said:

And I don't agree with anything in your post. Nothing.

 

I've worked with my SIngapore colleagues and staff from SIngapore companies and Singapore government many times over many years.

 

Always impressed with their insight, their intelligence, their ability to instantly analyse, their ability to express themselves well and more. 

 

And in recent years I've taught executive masters degree programs at a highly credible uni in Vietnam in English (campus in both Ho Chi Minh City and Hanoi).

 

All students Vietnamese. They have impressed me and the other western professors in every course.  

 

Everybody knows that the people/students living in Singapore are, on average, of higher intelligence.

But, we are talking about education.

Did you watch the Noam video links I posted?

If not, please do, and then get back to me.

Thank you.

 

Also, I was not aware that there existed a highly credible uni in Vietnam, especially one where the curriculum is taught in English.

Have you, in fact, ever even read an MA thesis written by an ESL author?

Gibberish and Garbage, at the very best.

 

Anyway, I do not wish to disabuse you of your fantasies...

And, as everyone knows, trying to change anyone's views by resorting to logic is a fool's errand.

 

But, if you are open minded, then take a few minutes to watch the Noam videos I posted in a previous comment, and enjoy!

 

 

 

[LogicThai]

22 minutes ago, scorecard said:

And I don't agree with anything in your post. Nothing.

I've worked with my SIngapore colleagues and staff from SIngapore companies and Singapore government many times over many years.

Always impressed with their insight, their intelligence, their ability to instantly analyse, their ability to express themselves well and more. 

You must have met a very different bunch of Singaporeans than I have. Still, I lived and worked in Singapore for 5 years, and I currently work for a Singaporean company owned by Singaporean Private Equity. I deal with them all on a daily base, and while I will readily agree that they have good technical skills and much better fluency in English than anybody else in ASEAN, most of them fail in critical thinking. There are exceptions, admittedly, but the worrying part is that the most mentally agile and creative seem to be the older ones, those in their 40s and 50s. The younger ones are quite lethargic and disengaged.

Overall, the education system in Singapore delivers what it was built to deliver: a qualified and docile workforce. The Thai education system was meant to do that too, but it largely fails at delivering a qualified workforce. On the docility side though, it seems to fare much better, which is all the powers that be care about.
 

[GammaGlobulin]

20 minutes ago, LogicThai said:

You must have met a very different bunch of Singaporeans than I have. Still, I lived and worked in Singapore for 5 years, and I currently work for a Singaporean company owned by Singaporean Private Equity. I deal with them all on a daily base, and while I will readily agree that they have good technical skills and much better fluency in English than anybody else in ASEAN, most of them fail in critical thinking. There are exceptions, admittedly, but the worrying part is that the most mentally agile and creative seem to be the older ones, those in their 40s and 50s. The younger ones are quite lethargic and disengaged.

Overall, the education system in Singapore delivers what it was built to deliver: a qualified and docile workforce. The Thai education system was meant to do that too, but it largely fails at delivering a qualified workforce. On the docility side though, it seems to fare much better, which is all the powers that be care about.
 

 

Yes.

And, I think Dear Old Scorecard was conflating Education and Indoctrination.

He seems to have combined the two, and now cannot tell them apart.

Maybe he had lived in Singapore...far too long...to know the difference.

 

My Hero:

 

Spare the Rod...

Spoil the Child!

 

 

Edited January 19 by GammaGlobulin