A bump in the road to full EV adoption - EV Battery Factory Will Require So Much Energy It Needs A Coal Plant To Power It

[Bandersnatch]

1 hour ago, Lacessit said:

I could find the video if I wanted to waste my time for you. I don't

 

Can’t be bothered to check your facts but posts it anyway.

 

This is why we can never have an intelligent debate with EV haters - they are not interest in the facts. 

 

 

[Lacessit]

14 hours ago, sirineou said:

You this is is bad? 

compared to what I am about to tell toy this pales in comparison. 

I have it from reliable source that many , perhaps most of the people that work at EV factories eat beef!!

I know righty? 

Cattle are the number one producers of CO2 and this people support the industry . 

Wake up people!! EVs are made by beef eaters.

Ohh!!  the hypocrisy. 

I bet you Biden eats beef.

Nooooo. There are only 940 million cattle in the world. We humans number 8.1 billion. We breathe out CO2 just like they do. AFAIK cattle do not drive cars, or have log fires.

Besides which, we fart on average 17 times a day.

If we wanted to really address the problem, we should all be burning our toast in the morning, so the charcoal could absorb those pesky intestinal gases.

[Lacessit]

17 minutes ago, Bandersnatch said:

 

Can’t be bothered to check your facts but posts it anyway.

 

This is why we can never have an intelligent debate with EV haters - they are not interest in the facts. 

 

 

You can't admit you were wrong, can you? Personal vehicles are not 23% of global CO2 emissions. Show me data that says they are.

 

You have the gall to talk about intelligent debate and facts, when in this instance you have neither.

[Crossy]

OK enough.

 

The bickering WILL cease right now!

 

There will be no further warnings!

[NanLaew]

On 1/19/2024 at 8:46 AM, sirineou said:

Nonsense!! .

what different does it make what type of power is used to construct components for an EV? 

They will use whatever is available.

Is there a requirement that only clean energy sources are used to manufacture clean energy components? If that's so then it is impossible to ever have clean energy. 

 

 

This just in, over 86% of the energy used to build the equipment and infrastructure required to provide and sustain renewable energy sources comes from fossil fuels.

 

More at ten...

[NanLaew]

3 hours ago, Lacessit said:

Nooooo. There are only 940 million cattle in the world. We humans number 8.1 billion. We breathe out CO2 just like they do. AFAIK cattle do not drive cars, or have log fires.

Besides which, we fart on average 17 times a day.

If we wanted to really address the problem, we should all be burning our toast in the morning, so the charcoal could absorb those pesky intestinal gases.

 

My missus burns the morning toast reagularly, just because she can.

[novacova]

The EV gimmick is quite remarkable that has overwhelmingly been rejected by consumers. The investors including politicians & lobbyists push policies regardless of sales and the lack thereof…the government funding cycles into the projects and right into the pockets of the investors and mega corporations that include the politicians. Only the “greater good” parade crowd is falling and believing this scam, not to mention some of the other gimmicks that are floating around out there.

[novacova]

25 minutes ago, NanLaew said:

 

This just in, over 86% of the energy used to build the equipment and infrastructure required to provide and sustain renewable energy sources comes from fossil fuels.

 

More at ten...

Another news flash: EV consumers use just as much fossil energy as everyone else.

[Crossy]

People of AN, your attention please! 

 

If you are going to post facts, please support them with a link to a credible source.

 

[Jing Joe]

On 1/19/2024 at 1:15 PM, sirineou said:

No really? 

Do you understand that they have to somehow be made, before they start reducing carbon? 

Yes, agree  sir Sirineou, and theres probably much more coal used to make I.C.U vehicles, with their many more components, which in turn go on to spew emissions in Bkk etc, for the rest of their life. Then the detractors will have objections e.g .... what about the power needed to charge the E.V.'s?    Go solar to charge the EV as I do, and increasing others, and let it happen at national level too. The EV subject was done to death on a recent topic in ASEAN NOW.

Scares about power outages being bandied out there? good, this will evolve towards more alternative power. Watch that space.

[Jing Joe]

3 hours ago, novacova said:

The EV gimmick is quite remarkable that has overwhelmingly been rejected by consumers. The investors including politicians & lobbyists push policies regardless of sales and the lack thereof…the government funding cycles into the projects and right into the pockets of the investors and mega corporations that include the politicians. Only the “greater good” parade crowd is falling and believing this scam, not to mention some of the other gimmicks that are floating around out there.

Dont know where you get that info. Reports out of Australia say there is an incredible growth of EV sales.

[Presnock]

On 1/19/2024 at 10:05 AM, Muhendis said:

Why don't the Americans build their own factory?

because the US politicians need to fill their re-election chests with more and more donations from China

[KhunLA]

3 hours ago, novacova said:

The EV gimmick is quite remarkable that has overwhelmingly been rejected by consumers. The investors including politicians & lobbyists push policies regardless of sales and the lack thereof…the government funding cycles into the projects and right into the pockets of the investors and mega corporations that include the politicians. Only the “greater good” parade crowd is falling and believing this scam, not to mention some of the other gimmicks that are floating around out there.

And yet ... 

https://aseannow.com/topic/1315841-is-this-the-future-for-ev-cars/page/9/#comment-18610521

 

Did someone mention Aussie EV sales ... 

... "December’s numbers indicate that 7.2% of the market was fully electric (BEV) and 1% PHEV. Over 98,000 vehicles sold in Australia in December, with around 8% having a plug. This is a 161% increase over December 2022

 

Tesla reported the highest level of growth amongst the top ten automakers (135%), delivering 46,116 electric cars in 2023. And it was another record year for plug-in electric car sales, with over 87,000 delivered. The Australian market has come a long way — from less than 1% penetration 3 years ago to over 8% this last year."

 

[Muhendis]

1 hour ago, Presnock said:

because the US politicians need to fill their re-election chests with more and more donations from China

What you say might very well be true but I don't see the connection between the company building the factory and China.

I always thought Panasonic was Japanese.

[sirineou]

3 hours ago, Jing Joe said:

Yes, agree  sir Sirineou, and theres probably much more coal used to make I.C.U vehicles, with their many more components, which in turn go on to spew emissions in Bkk etc, for the rest of their life. Then the detractors will have objections e.g .... what about the power needed to charge the E.V.'s?    Go solar to charge the EV as I do, and increasing others, and let it happen at national level too. The EV subject was done to death on a recent topic in ASEAN NOW.

Scares about power outages being bandied out there? good, this will evolve towards more alternative power. Watch that space.

You are right , same old objections, then you point out why they are wrong, provide the statistics. post a link to the inf. and next week the post the same nonsense  

Would it be great to use all glean energy to produce the components of clean energy? Sure would !!  but we are not there yet we are still transitioning 

I am sure we can all agree that clean is good.

So the old axiom , "Don't let the Great be the enemy of the Good " applies 

 

 

[sirineou]

4 hours ago, NanLaew said:

 

This just in, over 86% of the energy used to build the equipment and infrastructure required to provide and sustain renewable energy sources comes from fossil fuels.

 

More at ten...

So!! Mr news at ten. 

First a link to your assertion would be appreciated.

But even if I was to do you one better and give you 100%  .

I am sure you would agree that using your enemy to help you fight the war against it is a good thing for you. , 

 

 

[Jing Joe]

38 minutes ago, KhunLA said:

...Did someone mention Aussie EV sales

"December’s numbers indicate that 7.2% of the market was fully electric (BEV) and 1% PHEV. Over 98,000 vehicles sold in Australia in December, with around 8% having a plug. This is a 161% increase over December 2022  Tesla reported the highest level of growth amongst the top ten automakers (135%), delivering 46,116 electric cars in 2023. And it was another record year for plug-in electric car sales, with over 87,000 delivered. The Australian market has come a long way — from less than 1% penetration 3 years ago to over 8% this last year."

 

Yes I said it KhunLA, and good on ya for the figures above.    Oz is not called "the sunburnt country" for nothing and there's a huge percentage of houses with solar panels and ever increasing huge solar and wind turbine farms already in operation, and being installed.

[digger70]

Nah Why worry about coal. 

Go Clean Power Go Nuclear save the world .

[Crossy]

Just now, digger70 said:

Nah Why worry about coal. 

Go Clean Power Go Nuclear save the world .

 

Fission is so 20th Century!

 

Many of us are already using fusion to power our homes and vehicles.

 

We just put the fusion-reactor 93 million miles away.

[digger70]

12 minutes ago, Crossy said:

 

Fission is so 20th Century!

 

Many of us are already using fusion to power our homes and vehicles.

 

We just put the fusion-reactor 93 million miles away.

Nah wi'll stick wit the Fission for a while . 

 

Are fusion reactors a thing yet?

In a fusion process, two lighter atomic nuclei combine to form a heavier nucleus, while releasing energy. Devices designed to harness this energy are known as fusion reactors. Research into fusion reactors began in the 1940s, but as of 2024, no device has reached net power.

[Crossy]

3 minutes ago, digger70 said:

Are fusion reactors a thing yet?

 

Very much so, we use one to provide better than 80% of our domestic electricity needs.

 

You could too, for a modest investment.

[digger70]

7 minutes ago, Crossy said:

 

Very much so, we use one to provide better than 80% of our domestic electricity needs.

 

You could too, for a modest investment.

Nah I give that one a miss.

[VocalNeal]

On 1/19/2024 at 7:46 AM, sirineou said:

Is there a requirement that only clean energy sources are used to manufacture clean energy components?

 

Please show me a solar panel plant that is powered by solar energy🤔

 

Nonsense indeed.

[Crossy]

14 hours ago, VocalNeal said:

Please show me a solar panel plant that is powered by solar energy🤔

Nonsense indeed.

 

Here are two notable examples:

 

EDIT To note that this information is from Bard AI

 

1. Sonnenfabrik Herzberg in Germany:

• Opened in 2019, Sonnenfabrik Herzberg is the world's first industrial facility to produce solar panels entirely with its own renewable energy.

• The plant boasts a massive 53,000 square meter rooftop covered in solar panels, generating 12.5 megawatts of power, enough to meet its entire energy needs.

• On sunny days, the plant even produces a surplus of electricity, which is fed back into the grid.

2. REC Silicon's Moses Lake plant in Washington, USA:

• While not entirely self-powered yet, REC Silicon's Moses Lake facility is transitioning to be powered by 100% clean hydropower from the Columbia River.
  Opens in a new windowwww.pv-tech.org

  REC Silicon's Moses Lake solar panel manufacturing plant in Washington, USA
• This shift will significantly reduce the plant's carbon footprint and make it one of the most sustainable silicon producers globally.
• The plant is already a major player in the solar industry, supplying polysilicon, a key material for solar cells, to leading panel manufacturers worldwide.

[VocalNeal]

4 minutes ago, Crossy said:

On sunny days,

 

All 1 1/2 of them?  You won't see me in church just yet.🤔

[sirineou]

6 minutes ago, VocalNeal said:

 

Please show me a solar panel plant that is powered by solar energy🤔

 

Nonsense indeed.

why should a solar panel plant be powered by solar energy. 

Your comment makes no sense. 

Have you ever run a company?

 

[VocalNeal]

1 minute ago, sirineou said:

why should a solar panel plant be powered by solar energy. 

Your comment makes no sense. 

 

Because they are powered from their local grid. Which is probably fossil fuel-powered. An irony lost on disciples.

1 minute ago, sirineou said:

Have you ever run a company?

 

Yes thanks. Had I known you were interested? I could have offered it to you.🤔

[Lacessit]

43 minutes ago, digger70 said:

Nah Why worry about coal. 

Go Clean Power Go Nuclear save the world .

Nuclear is not clean. Chernobyl and Fukushima have already proved that.

Even a plant which functions as intended generates spent fuel rods and radioactive water. When the plant is decommissioned, the only thing to do is entomb it in concrete. It can't be dismantled as a normal plant would be.

It is also more expensive than alternative power sources, due to the expertise and supervision needed to operate a reactor. It's not something one turns over to unskilled labor to run.

 

[sirineou]

1 minute ago, VocalNeal said:

Because they are powered from their local grid. Which is probably fossil fuel-powered. An irony lost on disciples.

No irony at all . Why would you say that it is an Irony? 

Your above post answers my question id you have ever run a company. 

Companies that produce solar cells are not charities, they are for profit companies and to survive they need to at the very least break even. 

How could they possibly run on solar energy ?  what would they do at night? run on huge batteries? 

What would they do during the rain season, lay everyone off and shut  down ?

 

I rather be a disciple of clean energy than a dupe of the fossil fuel l industry.  

 

Dont you see how ridiculous  your position is? You are saying to the clean energy "disciples" that if they wish to develop clean energy, they have to use clean energy to do it.

But but, we say, we don't have clean energy, which is why we want to develop a clean energy economy.  

Tough canugies  you say. Those are the brakes. To develop clean energy you you must have clean energy  LOL 

 

[VocalNeal]

4 minutes ago, sirineou said:

I rather be a disciple of clean energy than a dupe of the fossil fuel l industry. 

 

Were I to be a disciple of anyone it would probably be Patrick Moore. 

 

I can s see the logic in reducing pollution in urban communities after all it worked in post-war London. It is the abandonment of science and logic in favor of emotion and sensationalism that bothers me.  

Edited January 20 by VocalNeal