Netanyahu publicly rejects US push for Palestinian state

[CharlieH]

 

Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu declared that he informed the United States of his opposition to the creation of a Palestinian state after the resolution of the Gaza conflict.

 

During a press conference, Netanyahu asserted his determination to continue the offensive until achieving "complete victory," defined as the destruction of Hamas and the return of remaining Israeli hostages, acknowledging that this might take "many more months."

With nearly 25,000 Palestinians reported killed in Gaza and 85% of the Strip's population displaced, international pressure on Israel to halt its offensive and engage in meaningful talks for a sustainable end to the war has intensified. The US and other allies, as well as some adversaries, have advocated for reviving the dormant "two-state solution," wherein a future Palestinian state coexists with Israel. Many hope that the ongoing crisis could push the conflicting parties back to diplomacy as a preferable alternative to continuous cycles of violence. However, Netanyahu's comments suggest a contrary intention.

 

Following Netanyahu's statements, US National Security Council spokesman John Kirby acknowledged the divergence in perspectives between the US and Israel. Netanyahu had previously asserted on Thursday that Israel must maintain security control over all land west of the River Jordan, encompassing the territory of any potential Palestinian state. He framed this as a necessary condition for Israel's security, conflicting with the notion of Palestinian sovereignty.

 

Netanyahu's latest remarks align with his longstanding opposition to Palestinian statehood, a position he proudly emphasized just last month. The public rejection of Washington's diplomatic efforts and the commitment to the current military strategy illustrate a widening gap with Israel's Western allies.

 

Since the October 7 attacks, the most devastating in Israel's history, where Hamas gunmen killed approximately 1,300 Israelis and took 240 hostage, the US has supported Israel's right to self-defence. However, as the death toll rises in Gaza and distressing scenes unfold, Western governments have urged Israeli restraint. The White House has consistently sought to influence Israel's military approach, advocating for more precision-guided weapons, discouraging a ground offensive, and promoting a two-state solution with a role for the Palestinian Authority in post-conflict Gaza.

 

19.01.24

Source

 

[Bkk Brian]

The lasting solution is to defeat Hamas first, nothing can be done while they are still active and running Gaza. 

 

The lasting solution is to defeat Hamas.

 

 

[Hawaiian]

58 minutes ago, Bkk Brian said:

The lasting solution is to defeat Hamas first, nothing can be done while they are still active and running Gaza. 

 

The lasting solution is to defeat Hamas.

 

 

Kind of like putting the horse before the cart.  First things, first. 

[Morch]

1 hour ago, Bkk Brian said:

The lasting solution is to defeat Hamas first, nothing can be done while they are still active and running Gaza. 

 

The lasting solution is to defeat Hamas.

 

 

 

27 minutes ago, Hawaiian said:

Kind of like putting the horse before the cart.  First things, first. 

 

Nope.

Even the IDF says that the government refusing to discuss 'the day after' negatively effects the war effort.

 

The sole reason Netanyahu is averse to discussing this is that it carries implications toward his own political future.

 

[Morch]

Netanyahu does what he always does - put himself first. Even willing to risk a crisis with Israel's #1 backer and sponsor. As if putting national security at risk through his past Hamas policy wasn't enough. Maybe he's banking on things dragging on, and then maybe Trump wins the USA elections, and new avenues to nonsense opening. But I think it's mostly short term thinking - if he says yes, his coalition might collapse, and this means elections from a very unfavorable position, and with his court cases hanging over his head. Notably, I'm sure he'll keep asking the USA to support the war regardless of his refusal to play ball (again, banking on Biden not cutting off lines of supply on election year).

 

There's this band (I think they're still around), Me First and the Gimme Gimmes. He ought to audition.

Edited January 19 by Morch

[thaibeachlovers]

6 hours ago, Morch said:

 

 

Nope.

Even the IDF says that the government refusing to discuss 'the day after' negatively effects the war effort.

 

The sole reason Netanyahu is averse to discussing this is that it carries implications toward his own political future.

 

I certainly agree with you on that.

 

Seems that netanyahu has come to think he is invincible and can do anything and the US will blindly support him. Perhaps he is right about that. Maybe the tail is wagging the dog.

[ozimoron]

"And this is this is not a new comment by Prime Minister Netanyahu. We obviously see it differently. We believe that the Palestinians have every right to live in an independent state with peace and security," said Kirby.

 

https://www.aa.com.tr/en/world/white-house-affirms-bidens-commitment-to-2-state-solution-amid-netanyahus-opposition/3113105

 

[ozimoron]

Israel’s far-right prime minister, Benjamin Netanyahu, announced on Thursday that he told the White House he will not accept a Palestinian state after the war, nor cede security control of any territory west of the Jordan River.

 

The US, Israel’s staunchest and most important ally, has repeatedly attempted to discuss “day-after” scenarios with Israel and potential paths toward a two-state solution that include both a future Palestinian state and considerations for Israel’s security, only to be rebuffed.

 

The first challenge is moving Israel past Netanyahu’s toxic reign.

 

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2024/jan/19/biden-israel-netanyahu-war

 

[Hawaiian]

9 hours ago, Morch said:

 

 

Nope.

Even the IDF says that the government refusing to discuss 'the day after' negatively effects the war effort.

 

The sole reason Netanyahu is averse to discussing this is that it carries implications toward his own political future.

 

Palestinian support for a two-state solution has dropped dramatically and Hamas itself calls for the complete destruction of Israel.  In other words, a one state solution, Palestine.  I am not agreeing with Netanyahu, but agreeing with Bkk Brian that Hamas is the problem and not the solution.

https://www.channel4.com/news/factcheck/factcheck-what-is-a-two-state-solution-and-do-israelis-and-palestinians-want-one

 

 

Edited January 19 by Hawaiian
correct link

[Bkk Brian]

Well I guess this topic is obviously about Netanyahu and his goals or rather solutions for the end of the war. I also don't agree with him nor do I agree with many of his statements. Its clear that if there was an election today he would be ousted pretty quickly as without looking I think his popularity is down to around 20% or so, maybe a little more. He should obviously step down when this is over or before simply because he was at the helm when this massive security blunder allowed the attack to take place. That said, there is overwhelming support in Israel from the population to carry on the war until it is finished, with Netanyahu there or not. 

 

Whatever happens the 2 state solution remains elusive and if it happens which I hope it does, it will not be for a long time yet and only after the current phase of the hostilities are over.

 

The two-state solution is presented publicly by the world's diplomats and politicians as a silver bullet to end a conflict which has raged - one way or another - for decades.

But, despite taking part in this dance, most privately know it is dead, or is at best on life support.

https://news.sky.com/story/israel-hamas-war-leaders-love-to-talk-of-a-two-state-solution-but-middle-east-silver-bullet-feels-further-away-than-ever-13051510

 

I also agree with Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas who says there can be “no security and stability in the region” without a Palestinian state.

 

Dismantling Hamas and returning hostages are still the goals however and as the new EU Parliament resolution released just a couple of days ago stated:

 

In a resolution that showed significant support for Israel, the European Parliament calls for a permanent ceasefire after all hostages are “immediately and unconditionally released” and “the terrorist organization Hamas is dismantled.”

The resolution was adopted by 312 votes in favor, 131 against and 72 abstentions.

At the same time, the MEPs denounce “the disproportionate Israeli military response, which has caused a civilian death toll on an unprecedented scale.”

https://www.timesofisrael.com/liveblog_entry/european-parliament-backs-ceasefire-resolution-contingent-on-hostages-release-hamass-ouster/

 

I am with the above resolution at the moment, everything else at this stage to me is noise. The resolution seems fair and is also hard hitting for Israel with not just the above conditions, those are for the ceasefire, here is a little more detail, that includes demands for 2 state solution etc.

 

https://www.europarl.europa.eu/news/en/press-room/20240112IPR16776/israel-hamas-war-meps-call-for-a-permanent-ceasefire-under-two-conditions

[Hawaiian]

29 minutes ago, Bkk Brian said:

Well I guess this topic is obviously about Netanyahu and his goals or rather solutions for the end of the war. I also don't agree with him nor do I agree with many of his statements. Its clear that if there was an election today he would be ousted pretty quickly as without looking I think his popularity is down to around 20% or so, maybe a little more. He should obviously step down when this is over or before simply because he was at the helm when this massive security blunder allowed the attack to take place. That said, there is overwhelming support in Israel from the population to carry on the war until it is finished, with Netanyahu there or not. 

 

Whatever happens the 2 state solution remains elusive and if it happens which I hope it does, it will not be for a long time yet and only after the current phase of the hostilities are over.

 

The two-state solution is presented publicly by the world's diplomats and politicians as a silver bullet to end a conflict which has raged - one way or another - for decades.

But, despite taking part in this dance, most privately know it is dead, or is at best on life support.

https://news.sky.com/story/israel-hamas-war-leaders-love-to-talk-of-a-two-state-solution-but-middle-east-silver-bullet-feels-further-away-than-ever-13051510

 

I also agree with Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas who says there can be “no security and stability in the region” without a Palestinian state.

 

Dismantling Hamas and returning hostages are still the goals however and as the new EU Parliament resolution released just a couple of days ago stated:

 

In a resolution that showed significant support for Israel, the European Parliament calls for a permanent ceasefire after all hostages are “immediately and unconditionally released” and “the terrorist organization Hamas is dismantled.”

The resolution was adopted by 312 votes in favor, 131 against and 72 abstentions.

At the same time, the MEPs denounce “the disproportionate Israeli military response, which has caused a civilian death toll on an unprecedented scale.”

https://www.timesofisrael.com/liveblog_entry/european-parliament-backs-ceasefire-resolution-contingent-on-hostages-release-hamass-ouster/

 

I am with the above resolution at the moment, everything else at this stage to me is noise. The resolution seems fair and is also hard hitting for Israel with not just the above conditions, those are for the ceasefire, here is a little more detail, that includes demands for 2 state solution etc.

 

https://www.europarl.europa.eu/news/en/press-room/20240112IPR16776/israel-hamas-war-meps-call-for-a-permanent-ceasefire-under-two-conditions

At the conclusion of this conflict, whenever that is, Netayahu should step down  before being soundly defeated.  Instead of being hammered with accusations of a disastrous security lapse on his watch he can claim how he destroyed Hamas.  He can also announce that his job is over and will now leave it to someone else to lead Israel forward.  I can hear the snickers now.  Never happen.  Comments welcome.

[Morch]

8 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

I certainly agree with you on that.

 

Seems that netanyahu has come to think he is invincible and can do anything and the US will blindly support him. Perhaps he is right about that. Maybe the tail is wagging the dog.

 

@thaibeachlovers

 

You do not 'agree' with what I posted, you simply hijack it to broadcast and push your own narrative.

 

As opposed to your nonsense, Netanyahu most certainly does not feel 'invincible', but the other way around. He's politically weak, compromised and for that - cannot allow discussion of what's next, who's responsible, or anything which relates to possible political shifts in Israel. What he does is play for time, hoping for circumstances to change, and holding on to power as long as possible.

 

I don't think that this is about assessment 'blind' support (that'd be your bias interjecting) but about political calculations - public opinion and it being an election year in the USA. Obviously, you'll dodge the Trump references, as you're a Trump supporter.

 

Also, this comment makes your 'ignore' claims an obvious lie. So once again, more cowardice and inability to discuss things, rather than some principled position. You're a joke.

[placeholder]

1 hour ago, Hawaiian said:

At the conclusion of this conflict, whenever that is, Netayahu should step down  before being soundly defeated.  Instead of being hammered with accusations of a disastrous security lapse on his watch he can claim how he destroyed Hamas.  He can also announce that his job is over and will now leave it to someone else to lead Israel forward.  I can hear the snickers now.  Never happen.  Comments welcome.

You forgot the part how, after his resignation, instead of battling the charges against him in court, he pleads guilty to corruption charges and meekly serves out his time in prison.

[ozimoron]

2 minutes ago, placeholder said:

You forgot the part how, after his resignation, instead of battling the charges against him in court, he pleads guilty to corruption charges and meekly serves out his time in prison.

 

It wouldn't end there. The calls to bring Netanyahu to the ICC will never fade until he faces that court. Galant as well. And various members of his cabinet and military.

[Morch]

7 hours ago, ozimoron said:

Israel’s far-right prime minister, Benjamin Netanyahu, announced on Thursday that he told the White House he will not accept a Palestinian state after the war, nor cede security control of any territory west of the Jordan River.

 

The US, Israel’s staunchest and most important ally, has repeatedly attempted to discuss “day-after” scenarios with Israel and potential paths toward a two-state solution that include both a future Palestinian state and considerations for Israel’s security, only to be rebuffed.

 

The first challenge is moving Israel past Netanyahu’s toxic reign.

 

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2024/jan/19/biden-israel-netanyahu-war

 

 

@ozimoron

 

Labeling Netanyahu as 'far-right' says more about the author than about Netanyahu's actual positions.

 

Not too impressed with posters routinely posting links to opinion columns, yet having nothing significant of their own as comment or contribution.

 

[Bkk Brian]

3 minutes ago, placeholder said:

You forgot the part how, after his resignation, instead of battling the charges against him in court, he pleads guilty to corruption charges and meekly serves out his time in prison.

The court case is still going, since early December two court cases a week have been heard. Including potential appeals if found guilty, its unlikely to end before 2028-2029

[Morch]

4 hours ago, Hawaiian said:

Palestinian support for a two-state solution has dropped dramatically and Hamas itself calls for the complete destruction of Israel.  In other words, a one state solution, Palestine.  I am not agreeing with Netanyahu, but agreeing with Bkk Brian that Hamas is the problem and not the solution.

https://www.channel4.com/news/factcheck/factcheck-what-is-a-two-state-solution-and-do-israelis-and-palestinians-want-one

 

 

 

Accepting Hamas is a problem does not imply discussions of what's next, what's to follow are to be avoided until such a time Hamas is defeated. This doesn't even have much to do with a two-state solution discussion, which is a broader issue. Currently, Netanyahu's refusal of setting clear goals for 'the day after' is making things more complicated for Israel and the IDF.

[Hawaiian]

10 minutes ago, placeholder said:

You forgot the part how, after his resignation, instead of battling the charges against him in court, he pleads guilty to corruption charges and meekly serves out his time in prison.

This is not how you reward the man who "saved" Israel from Hamas.

[Morch]

4 minutes ago, Bkk Brian said:

The court case is still going, since early December two court cases a week have been heard. Including potential appeals if found guilty, its unlikely to end before 2028-2029

 

One reason that he does not want to let go of power is that the pace of the court proceedings would be significantly increased, and of course, less clout over judges, judiciary, witnesses - or control of media.

[placeholder]

1 minute ago, Hawaiian said:

This is not how you reward the man who "saved" Israel from Hamas.

If the consequences of Netanyahu's alleged criminality had something to do with Hamas, it wouldn't be nearly enough for the man who in so many ways is responsible for the Oct 7, massacre. 

[placeholder]

29 minutes ago, Bkk Brian said:

The court case is still going, since early December two court cases a week have been heard. Including potential appeals if found guilty, its unlikely to end before 2028-2029

So you think the coda  I appended to Hawaiian's fairy tale was not realistic?

[Bkk Brian]

There will be official read outs of this published later or over the weekend so details should be forthcoming

 

After phone call, Biden says two-state solution not impossible while Netanyahu in office

WASHINGTON — US President Joe Biden says the creation of an independent state for Palestinians is not impossible while Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu is still in office, and that the two leaders discussed the issue during their phone call earlier today.

Speaking to reporters after a meeting with US mayors, Biden is asked directly whether a two-state solution is impossible with Netanyahu still in office.

“No it’s not,” the president replies.

https://www.timesofisrael.com/liveblog_entry/after-phone-call-biden-says-two-state-solution-not-impossible-while-netanyahu-in-office/

 

 

[Bkk Brian]

2 minutes ago, placeholder said:

So you think the coda  I appended to Hawaiian's fairy tale was not realistic?

I added some information to your post, I can add more, what you want to make of it is up to you........lol

[placeholder]

34 minutes ago, Morch said:

 

@ozimoron

 

Labeling Netanyahu as 'far-right' says more about the author than about Netanyahu's actual positions.

 

Not too impressed with posters routinely posting links to opinion columns, yet having nothing significant of their own as comment or contribution.

 

You don't think just by itself, his push to defang the Supreme Court is enough to qualify him as an extreme rightist? And given the composition of the current government, does it even matter whether that term corresponds to what Netanyahu may believe?

[placeholder]

Just now, Bkk Brian said:

I added some information to your post, I can add more, what you want to make of it is up to you........lol

Maybe you should bring your services to bear on other fairy tales. That, in fact, the Prince and the Princess didn't live happily ever after. It turns out he was gay and she had a drinking problem.

[Neeranam]

35 minutes ago, Morch said:

 

One reason that he does not want to let go of power is that the pace of the court proceedings would be significantly increased, and of course, less clout over judges, judiciary, witnesses - or control of media.

Do you think he is guilty?

[Bkk Brian]

4 minutes ago, placeholder said:

Maybe you should bring your services to bear on other fairy tales. That, in fact, the Prince and the Princess didn't live happily ever after. It turns out he was gay and she had a drinking problem.

Off topic inflammatory trolling brings nothing to the topic...................................

 

 

Edited January 20 by Bkk Brian

[Hawaiian]

35 minutes ago, Morch said:

 

Accepting Hamas is a problem does not imply discussions of what's next, what's to follow are to be avoided until such a time Hamas is defeated. This doesn't even have much to do with a two-state solution discussion, which is a broader issue. Currently, Netanyahu's refusal of setting clear goals for 'the day after' is making things more complicated for Israel and the IDF.

I will not comment further because I am not that well versed on the internal politics of Israel.  And neither is the rest of the world.  Many are easily influenced by what they see and read in the media.

[Bkk Brian]

Another quick update from Sky News

 

Biden: Netanyahu not opposed to two-state solution
We are receiving more information following Joe Biden's call with Benjamin Netanyahu.

Asked if a two-state solution was "impossible" while Mr Netanyahu was in office, the US leader said: "No, it's not."

He said Mr Netanyahu was not opposed to all two-state solutions, and there were a number of types possible.

[placeholder]

Just now, Bkk Brian said:

Off topic trolling brings nothing to the topic...................................

 

 

Missing the point I was making is useless. I guess I have to spell it out for you. Hawaiian's scenario was obviously a contrary to common sense  fantasy. I treated it with all the seriousness it deserved. Which quantity is none.