800.000 Baht account after I die - can the partner access the account

[Liverpool Lou]

1 hour ago, pagallim said:

the wife/partner should have somewhere a kind of 'open in emergency' envelope detailing PIN numbers of the account to make it easy for them.

 

This link has a lot of useful information:

 

https://www.juslaws.com/civil-litigation/inheritance-succession

That very useful link does not, however, suggest that the (illegal) "emergency envelope" is used after a death, as your post could be interpreted to mean, although I do understand the practicality, if not the legality, of it.  

[Yellowtail]

5 minutes ago, Liverpool Lou said:

That very useful link does not, however, suggest that the (illegal) "emergency envelope" is used after a death, as your post could be interpreted to mean, although I do understand the practicality, if not the legality, of it.  

Is it illegal to allow your spouse to withdraw or transfer funds from your accounts while you are alive? 

[lopburi3]

5 minutes ago, jerrymahoney said:

So always, still, be worth a lot more alive than dead. But as with the comment I quoted, it is a way to get some money into the wife's hands promptly and then wait for things to clear in my home country where, again, things are set up in no-probate accounts.

If you have the funds and just worried she will spend have her set up account and you keep control of passbook/card until you pass and she can then use?  You could put money into account much above what she knows about if worried she might try to gain access.  Just another path that might fit some.

[jerrymahoney]

1 minute ago, lopburi3 said:

If you have the funds

Thanks. I don't have the funds.That's why it works at least for me.

[lopburi3]

6 minutes ago, jerrymahoney said:

Thanks. I don't have the funds.That's why it works at least for me.

Understand (and the longevity comment was 90% in jest) - is insurance co reliable?  If foreign could be other issues I suspect.  For US bank accounts they have simple "pay on death" paperwork that can be filled out at any time.

Edited January 20 by lopburi3

[pagallim]

10 minutes ago, Liverpool Lou said:

That very useful link does not, however, suggest that the (illegal) "emergency envelope" is used after a death, as your post could be interpreted to mean, although I do understand the practicality, if not the legality, of it.  

 

Indeed.   However, unrelated to what I described in an earlier post, a friend of mine passed away last year, with death occuring quite quickly (within a couple of days of becoming ill) rather than suddenly.   He'd given his wife access to his bank account which helped her quite a lot in the immediate aftermath of his death.      As I write, his bank account is still open now, some 7 months after his death, in fact a tax rebate has just been credited to it.

 

On a previous post that you made, the police did not visit his house, and neither they nor the Embassy informed his bank.   His wife had all of the documentation.

[Yellowtail]

1 hour ago, Liverpool Lou said:

Not legally, she can't.

Why? 

[dddave]

14 hours ago, Liverpool Lou said:

The bank was absolutely correct, administration/'probate' is required.  On an account-holders death, that has to be reported to the bank which freezes the account.  Any withdrawals after the death are fraudulent/theft, even if the account holder gave access details to a third party before his death.

When my friend was hit by a car and died last year, his brother ran into multiple roadblocks accessing his BKB account.  First and worst, there was no written Thai will which immediately makes it much tougher on everybody (get on it, guys if you care about your local loved ones).  

Getting access not only to the bank account but also insurance proceeds paid by the drivers insurance company was a nightmare.  He had to get copies of not only his own, but of all his siblings birth certs. and get statements from each that he was the sole person to collect the funds.  He had to petition a Thai court to be recognized as the executor.  It is now into the 2nd year and still not all resolved.  He is making his 3rd trip here soon, hopefully to finalize it all.

Nothing can be done casually after you are gone.  Get legal advice if your estate is divided between your home country and here in Thailand.  A simple will just doesn't cut it.

[Liverpool Lou]

57 minutes ago, Galong said:

I doubt many of the comments here are from lawyers. 

It doesn't require a law degree to be able to read the very clear, unambiguous law and just because someone may be a lawyer doesn't mean that they can't misinterpret that law.  

[jerrymahoney]

8 minutes ago, lopburi3 said:

Understand (and the longevity comment was 90% in jest) - is insurance co reliable?  If foreign could be other issues I suspect.

Yes I realize you were just giving the cliché response but still, if a large amount, has to be considered.

 

And yes it is a large Thai insurer.

[Yellowtail]

1 minute ago, Liverpool Lou said:

It doesn't require a law degree to be able to read the very clear, unambiguous law and just because someone may be a lawyer doesn't mean that they can't misinterpret that law.  

Where did you post the very clear, unambiguous law? 

[Yellowtail]

If you're worried about the legality, you could always schedule a transfer of 800K each month and then cancel and reschedule each month. 

[Liverpool Lou]

20 minutes ago, Yellowtail said:

Is it illegal to allow your spouse to withdraw or transfer funds from your accounts while you are alive? 

No, not if you give your authority for it. 

[lopburi3]

2 minutes ago, Yellowtail said:

If you're worried about the legality, you could always schedule a transfer of 800K each month and then cancel and reschedule each month. 

Not a viable option for most of us I fear - how many reports do we have every month of people mistakenly taking out a few baht from such an account and ending up short for immigration?  As for the legality expect if bank made such a transfer after your death it would not be considered legal in any case.

[Liverpool Lou]

13 minutes ago, Yellowtail said:

1 hour ago, Liverpool Lou said:

Not legally, she can't.

Why? 

Because after your death the account should be frozen until 'probate' authorises the distribution of your estate's assets.

[Liverpool Lou]

10 minutes ago, Yellowtail said:

13 minutes ago, Liverpool Lou said:

It doesn't require a law degree to be able to read the very clear, unambiguous law and just because someone may be a lawyer doesn't mean that they can't misinterpret that law.  

Where did you post the very clear, unambiguous law? 

I didn't.  Someone else has, though.   You can check it for yourself.

Edited January 20 by Liverpool Lou

[Liverpool Lou]

12 minutes ago, Yellowtail said:

If you're worried about the legality, you could always schedule a transfer of 800K each month and then cancel and reschedule each month. 

That authority would cease on your death until 'probate' is granted, as would the access to the account.

Edited January 20 by Liverpool Lou

[Liverpool Lou]

17 minutes ago, Yellowtail said:

If you're worried about the legality, you could always schedule a transfer of 800K each month and then cancel and reschedule each month. 

If that 800k is for immigration purposes doesn't it have to remain in the account?  

[connda]

15 hours ago, Moonlover said:

Surely a simple will naming your wife as the sole beneficiary and executor should cover this situation. Make sure the account number is clearly stated in the document.

 

There may well be other documents that the bank will require, almost certainly a copy of your death certificate.

That simple will can be completed at your local Amphur office.

[Yellowtail]

2 minutes ago, Liverpool Lou said:

If that 800k is for immigration purposes doesn't it have to remain in the account?  

 

What I said was: "If you're worried about the legality, you could always schedule a transfer of 800K each month and then cancel and reschedule each month."

 

How do you get from that that the 800K would not remain in the account while you're alive? 

 

[mancub]

Probate is detailed under the Thai Constitutional Law and associated legalities.

As with almost everything here subject to individual interpretation and possible circumvention.

[lopburi3]

3 minutes ago, Liverpool Lou said:

If that 800k is for immigration purposes doesn't it have to remain in the account?  

The idea is that if you die during that month the money would go to other account as would no longer be needed with you dead.  The problem, other than remembering to cancel each month, is that such a transfer would not be legal after your death.

[Moonlover]

1 minute ago, connda said:

That simple will can be completed at your local Amphur office.

Thanks for pointing that out. I'm not sure many people are aware of that. Even my wife didn't know!

[Moonlover]

26 minutes ago, Yellowtail said:

If you're worried about the legality, you could always schedule a transfer of 800K each month and then cancel and reschedule each month. 

I gather that most people who use the 800k method keep the funds in term deposits. It is not possible to arrange such transfers on those accounts.

[ross163103]

16 hours ago, hkt83100 said:

It was not power of attorney. The problem is the account has to be in a single name, but how can a partner get the money from the account? I remember there was a English and a Thai term for it...

No help, but I remember this also. A lot of people think a Thai can get the money out of an account that's not in their name because of a will, but they can't. Maybe a lawyer can get it for them but I know what you're talking about, hopefully a poster can enlighten us both on what it is. As proton mentioned in a previous post; joint signatory maybe?

[Yellowtail]

6 minutes ago, Moonlover said:

I gather that most people who use the 800k method keep the funds in term deposits. It is not possible to arrange such transfers on those accounts.

I don't. The fixed accounts do not seem to pay much more than a "high" yield saving account, so that is easily remedied. 

[1happykamper]

20 trips to an ATM will suffice 

[Nonthaburi Boy]

15 hours ago, hkt83100 said:

A long time ago I read about this problem, but I lost the text due to a disk crash. Someone mentioned the name of the form to fill out at the bank. It was not power of attorney. The problem is the account has to be in a single name, but how can a partner get the money from the account? I remember there was a English and a Thai term for it...

Thanks for any hint in the right direction.

 

I don’t know and would like to, but I believe that it would to some significant extent depend on the particular bank and branch. Once there is any dispute/uncertainty I guess that it will end up requiring a court order regardless. So I would talk to the bank, and consider talking to other banks and transferring your account (if able to open one!!!!), about whether there is any way to allow your wife legal access to these funds without a joint account.

 

Obviously, whether the ‘give her the access codes’ thing is a good idea would depend on certainty that there will be no dispute - including a good will - and that our embassy/the local police will be happy to ignore our death (they probably will). There is a whole world of trouble and extortion potentially waiting for the spouse if someone makes a bad call on that.

 

This is a quick and rough translation of the list of documents in a post above - for others as well as you - because I found it helpful, but Google translate makes it confusing. It’s not specifically about the bank account - just in the event we can’t sort that with the bank. Seems to me that much of this paperwork can be done/ prepared in advance of our death and kept up to date, and will make the court process smoother, if not shorter. The form in 11 is in English and Thai so we can potentially ask any close overseas relatives/ exes to sign it in advance, or at least make them aware that it is coming and is to be completed/ submitted to our wife in the event of our death. I imagine it might need to be notarized though and may require help from our embassy or government agencies (who may prefer to have other forms or a home country will). Will have to look into that.

 

1. House registration of the deceased

 

2. House registration of person applying to be administrator/inheritor (would be our spouse).

 

3. Death certificate

 

4. Death certificate of parents of deceased, if applicable

 

5. Marriage certificate of deceased (actually it says marriage certificate of the deceased’s spouse - and it could be ‘spouses’ suggesting they may have remarried or have more than one current spouse, which would make some sense).

 

6. Marriage certificate and/or registration of the spouse of the deceased (who would I guess be the executor and it would be the same document as 5 - this is one of those requirements that makes you say ‘what???’ Probably to cover situations where people have married multiple times?)

 

7. Certificates of any changes of name, surname by deceased, applications to appoint relatives (adoption papers and the like I guess) and to assign people (possibly the adoptees, but it isn’t clear and I guess isn’t supposed to be) as beneficiaries of the deceased’s estate.

 

8. Birth certificates of the inheritor's children (if having children unable to legally consent)… I am feeling this one should cover the deceased’s children too but it wouldn’t apply to me anyway

 

9. Official ID card of the applicant to be administrator of the estate (will be same as ‘inheritor’ in most cases).

 

10. The will of the deceased (if any)

 

11. Letter of consent for administration of assets of deceased (Download here Thai/EN) - this I guess is to be filled in by anyone with a likely/potential legal claim over the assets. For Thai relatives it might be easier to get everybody together with a lawyer and witnesses as there are a lot of signatures required.

 

12. ID card and house registration of all persons consenting to the administration of the estate 

 

13. Chart/list of relatives (I think a chart but best to ask about the format)

 

14. Documents related to the assets of the deceased, such as land title deeds and mortgage contracts, car/motorcycle registrations, firearms, bank passbooks, stock certificates, etc.

[Moonlover]

12 minutes ago, 1happykamper said:

20 trips to an ATM will suffice 

Followed by a knock on the door by the police!

[itsallmine68]

16 hours ago, MickTurator said:

This is a subject of great interest to me.

 

I asked at the bank (ayudhya) last week and they said my wife would not be able to access the 800k baht.

A death certificate would not be enough and the matter would have to go to court.

Maybe the bank is talking rubbish so does anyone have an answer and know what form the OP has mentioned?

 

I know that you are correct

But we also have a Will naming her  the Benefactor of the 800,000