Hamas: Oct 7 was 'necessary, normal response' to 'Israeli conspiracies'

[Morch]

3 minutes ago, Neeranam said:

No, I had you on ignore pre October 7.

I saw by other posters quoting me, you were calling me a liar about studying Judaism and calling my spiritual advisor a Rabbit. 

There's a fine line between ignoring trolls who slander your name, or replying to them. 

 

Yawn...

 

 

And best regards to the Rabbit.

 

 

[WDSmart]

11 minutes ago, Morch said:

 

You're assuming a whole lot. Guess that it's just a step away from it becoming your 'opinion', and then 'fact'.

I have been to all three areas mentioned. I have command of both languages (getting rusty with years, sure).

 

To follow your 'reasoning', anyone who has first hand experience with the regions is 'biased' and it would be much better to listen to the half-cooked 'opinions' of such as yourself, which are based on...reports from others who are in the region? Did you actually think this through?

 

You do not present things from the perspective of the Palestinians. How could you? Do you know any? Do you even understand their various social, political divides and groupings? You can't even get their official political agendas straight.

Well, all the above is valuable information I can use when evaluating your posts. Thanks!

How long ago were you last there? And when you were there, were you able to talk with both Israelis and Palestinians to hear their side of the story of this now 200-year-old conflict? What did they (especially the Palestinians in Gaza and the West Bank) have to say?

No, I reasoned that anyone with first-hand experience in the region of only one side of the conflict would most likely be biased. I did not expect you to have had experience with both sides, and I am still a little leery about just what kind of contact you had with Palestinians since you lean strongly toward the Israeli point of view. Did you really intermingle with "regular" Palestinians, or did you only observe them with a host of Israeli handlers around you?

I've told you repeatedly I express my opinions. So, I express my opinion on what the Palestinian perspective must be, having had a portion of their land handed over to another group who then forcefully extended their claim on the land over the last 200 years. 

And, yes, I think I understand "their various social, political divides and groupings," at least enough to form my opinions on who the right-wing, nationalistic, militant groups are on each side.

I think I have each of their political agendas straight. At this time, both are being led by the right-wing, nationalistic, militant groups on each side: Hamas and Zionists. Hamas wants to drive all Israelis out of what they consider to be their country, Palestine, and the Zionists want to drive all of the Palestinians out of what they consider to be their country, Israel. There are some exceptions to the "all" expressed above, but for me, "all" means "enough that they no longer have any control over the country."

I'll close by suggesting you watch some of what CNN (my main source of news) on this subject. If you do, you'll find they are slowly coming around to expressing more and more of the viewpoint I have been posting all along. 

Thanks again for your explanations. I will remember them when I read your posts on this subject.

[Neeranam]

6 minutes ago, Morch said:

 

Yawn...

 

 

And best regards to the Rabbit.

 

 

I guess they don't teach 'conditional sentences' in Israel schools. :)

Even though, it's quite obvious I didn't say you were back on ignore. 

[Neeranam]

7 minutes ago, WDSmart said:

Well, all the above is valuable information I can use when evaluating your posts. Thanks!

How long ago were you last there? And when you were there, were you able to talk with both Israelis and Palestinians to hear their side of the story of this now 200-year-old conflict? What did they (especially the Palestinians in Gaza and the West Bank) have to say?

No, I reasoned that anyone with first-hand experience in the region of only one side of the conflict would most likely be biased. I did not expect you to have had experience with both sides, and I am still a little leery about just what kind of contact you had with Palestinians since you lean strongly toward the Israeli point of view. Did you really intermingle with "regular" Palestinians, or did you only observe them with a host of Israeli handlers around you?

I've told you repeatedly I express my opinions. So, I express my opinion on what the Palestinian perspective must be, having had a portion of their land handed over to another group who then forcefully extended their claim on the land over the last 200 years. 

And, yes, I think I understand "their various social, political divides and groupings," at least enough to form my opinions on who the right-wing, nationalistic, militant groups are on each side.

I think I have each of their political agendas straight. At this time, both are being led by the right-wing, nationalistic, militant groups on each side: Hamas and Zionists. Hamas wants to drive all Israelis out of what they consider to be their country, Palestine, and the Zionists want to drive all of the Palestinians out of what they consider to be their country, Israel. There are some exceptions to the "all" expressed above, but for me, "all" means "enough that they no longer have any control over the country."

I'll close by suggesting you watch some of what CNN (my main source of news) on this subject. If you do, you'll find they are slowly coming around to expressing more and more of the viewpoint I have been posting all along. 

Thanks again for your explanations. I will remember them when I read your posts on this subject.

You are obviously unbiased and a pleasure to read.

[Morch]

5 minutes ago, WDSmart said:

Well, all the above is valuable information I can use when evaluating your posts. Thanks!

How long ago were you last there? And when you were there, were you able to talk with both Israelis and Palestinians to hear their side of the story of this now 200-year-old conflict? What did they (especially the Palestinians in Gaza and the West Bank) have to say?

No, I reasoned that anyone with first-hand experience in the region of only one side of the conflict would most likely be biased. I did not expect you to have had experience with both sides, and I am still a little leery about just what kind of contact you had with Palestinians since you lean strongly toward the Israeli point of view. Did you really intermingle with "regular" Palestinians, or did you only observe them with a host of Israeli handlers around you?

I've told you repeatedly I express my opinions. So, I express my opinion on what the Palestinian perspective must be, having had a portion of their land handed over to another group who then forcefully extended their claim on the land over the last 200 years. 

And, yes, I think I understand "their various social, political divides and groupings," at least enough to form my opinions on who the right-wing, nationalistic, militant groups are on each side.

I think I have each of their political agendas straight. At this time, both are being led by the right-wing, nationalistic, militant groups on each side: Hamas and Zionists. Hamas wants to drive all Israelis out of what they consider to be their country, Palestine, and the Zionists want to drive all of the Palestinians out of what they consider to be their country, Israel. There are some exceptions to the "all" expressed above, but for me, "all" means "enough that they no longer have any control over the country."

I'll close by suggesting you watch some of what CNN (my main source of news) on this subject. If you do, you'll find they are slowly coming around to expressing more and more of the viewpoint I have been posting all along. 

Thanks again for your explanations. I will remember them when I read your posts on this subject.

 

 

You ask for a whole lot of details, and given the interaction, no sure I feel comfortable, want to or have reason to accommodate you.

 

Yes, I have engaged with Palestinians (and Arab citizens of Israel). Conversations often turn political, as they do down there. It's a reprieve when they do not, actually. I was more interested in extremists and nutters back when, much less so nowadays. So guess most of the people I retain contact with could be defined as middle of the road or pro-peace. That said, the context is not the American or European one - so apart from dreamers, most people seem to have a rather realistic, maybe pessimistic, take on things, regardless of what they actually support. It would be impossible to encapsulate all the views heard in a post. It also depends on when things were said, circumstances, and so on. Things change, views change.

 

As for you being 'leery' - tell it to someone who cares. I've no idea what 'handlers' you're on about. You seem not to have a whole lot of clue how things are or what's going on. Do you think you get a 'handler' at the entrance to every Arab village in Israel? When you go to Nazareth? East Jerusalem? Too funny. Even in the West Bank it doesn't work this way. Gaza Strip is different - and indeed haven't been there for a long while, obviously - just talk or keep in touch with people online etc. (yeah, even during this war, when possible).

 

My general view, as posted more than once on these topics is that what Israel does in the West Bank is mostly wrong, but not so when it comes to the Gaza Strip. Obviously, it would be in Israel's (and the Palestinians') best interest to reach some peace agreement, preferably based on a two-state solution. But that's neither here nor there, given reality, positions and political landscape on both sides.

 

You express your opinions. That's clear enough. But your opinion on 'what the Palestinian perspective must be' ? That's nonsense. Same way you make assumptions about me, my views, my experience. It's meaningless without having an actual clue. It's not that far off from them youngsters shouting 'river-to-the-sea' without knowing what it's about.

 

And no, you most obviously do not have a clear grasp of either sides' political, social and whatever facets. That is made very evident by your weirdo use of bogus terminology. Same goes for your grasp of political agendas and leaderships. Things are way more nuanced and complex than your rendering of it.

 

I'll suggest you stop making silly suggestions. I occasionally watch CNN, but if that's your main/only source of reference, then it says something about the level of knowledge you bring to the discussion. As for CNN expressing similar 'opinions' to your own - I think that's more like la la land territory, on your part.

 

And if there's one thing I'm sure of - is that you will NOT remember what I posted above, but misrepresent it. That's my past experience with you from previous topics.

 

[WDSmart]

16 minutes ago, Morch said:

 

 

You ask for a whole lot of details, and given the interaction, no sure I feel comfortable, want to or have reason to accommodate you.

 

Yes, I have engaged with Palestinians (and Arab citizens of Israel). Conversations often turn political, as they do down there. It's a reprieve when they do not, actually. I was more interested in extremists and nutters back when, much less so nowadays. So guess most of the people I retain contact with could be defined as middle of the road or pro-peace. That said, the context is not the American or European one - so apart from dreamers, most people seem to have a rather realistic, maybe pessimistic, take on things, regardless of what they actually support. It would be impossible to encapsulate all the views heard in a post. It also depends on when things were said, circumstances, and so on. Things change, views change.

 

As for you being 'leery' - tell it to someone who cares. I've no idea what 'handlers' you're on about. You seem not to have a whole lot of clue how things are or what's going on. Do you think you get a 'handler' at the entrance to every Arab village in Israel? When you go to Nazareth? East Jerusalem? Too funny. Even in the West Bank it doesn't work this way. Gaza Strip is different - and indeed haven't been there for a long while, obviously - just talk or keep in touch with people online etc. (yeah, even during this war, when possible).

 

My general view, as posted more than once on these topics is that what Israel does in the West Bank is mostly wrong, but not so when it comes to the Gaza Strip. Obviously, it would be in Israel's (and the Palestinians') best interest to reach some peace agreement, preferably based on a two-state solution. But that's neither here nor there, given reality, positions and political landscape on both sides.

 

You express your opinions. That's clear enough. But your opinion on 'what the Palestinian perspective must be' ? That's nonsense. Same way you make assumptions about me, my views, my experience. It's meaningless without having an actual clue. It's not that far off from them youngsters shouting 'river-to-the-sea' without knowing what it's about.

 

And no, you most obviously do not have a clear grasp of either sides' political, social and whatever facets. That is made very evident by your weirdo use of bogus terminology. Same goes for your grasp of political agendas and leaderships. Things are way more nuanced and complex than your rendering of it.

 

I'll suggest you stop making silly suggestions. I occasionally watch CNN, but if that's your main/only source of reference, then it says something about the level of knowledge you bring to the discussion. As for CNN expressing similar 'opinions' to your own - I think that's more like la la land territory, on your part.

 

And if there's one thing I'm sure of - is that you will NOT remember what I posted above, but misrepresent it. That's my past experience with you from previous topics.

 

Thanks again for your reply.

I won't go through your post line-by-line, but I am impressed with your actual experiences in Israel/Palestine, and I will take all you have said at your word.

 

I noticed you described "Palestinians" as "Arab citizens of Israel." That's a little telling to me.

Other than that, the main thing I noticed was you differentiated between the West Bank and Gaza, implying the tensions in the West Bank were much less than those in Gaza. I assumed (there's that naughty word again! ) that was the case, but I don't know why. Maybe it's just because Gaza is more isolated than the West Bank and does not have so many sites that Israelis are interested in visiting. Gaza does seem to me much more of a powder keg, but now CNN () reports the IDF (IMO, should be "IAF" - Israeli Attack Forces ) is striking targets in the West Bank also. 

One thing I promise you, though, is I will try to remember all you've posted in your last two posts and consider those points when making judgments, forming opinions (yes, I'll still do that ), and posting responses. 

Thanks again for your recent responses... 

 

[Morch]

2 hours ago, WDSmart said:

Thanks again for your reply.

I won't go through your post line-by-line, but I am impressed with your actual experiences in Israel/Palestine, and I will take all you have said at your word.

 

I noticed you described "Palestinians" as "Arab citizens of Israel." That's a little telling to me.

Other than that, the main thing I noticed was you differentiated between the West Bank and Gaza, implying the tensions in the West Bank were much less than those in Gaza. I assumed (there's that naughty word again! ) that was the case, but I don't know why. Maybe it's just because Gaza is more isolated than the West Bank and does not have so many sites that Israelis are interested in visiting. Gaza does seem to me much more of a powder keg, but now CNN () reports the IDF (IMO, should be "IAF" - Israeli Attack Forces ) is striking targets in the West Bank also. 

One thing I promise you, though, is I will try to remember all you've posted in your last two posts and consider those points when making judgments, forming opinions (yes, I'll still do that ), and posting responses. 

Thanks again for your recent responses... 

 

 

 

I have no described Palestinians as 'Arab citizens of Israel'. I said that I have engaged with both groups. I'm not getting into the issues the latter group got with how to label itself.

 

I've differentiated between how I see Israel's actions in them areas (not specifically with regard to the current war, but generally). I do not think that I have said anything about 'tensions' either way - not sure what you're on about.

 

Pre-war, Israelis were forbidden from entering the Gaza Strip, barring very specific cases and being permitted to do so. Entry of other nationalities into the Gaza Strip was restricted as well (on the Egyptian side too), but less so. The West Bank is different in that it is more accessible, less restrictions etc.

 

There were also tens of thousands (more, counting the illegal ones) Palestinians working in Israel (from both the West Bank and the Gaza Strip) - which implies more interaction opportunities.

 

The situation in the West Bank is volatile, but as of now, still under control. Not in the PA's interest for another Intifada to break out either. As for you silly dig, IAF actually stands for Israeli Air Force.

 

 

[Greenhill]

8 hours ago, Brickleberry said:

 

That part is partially true. They killed 792 civillians (the death toll includes those shot by Israeli soldiers, or blown up by Israeli tank shells) and almost 400 Israeli military personnel. The festival was moved to that location only 2 days prior to the massacre on the 7th October. They were not supposed to be there.

 

Interestingly, There had been warnings about from the IDF for several weeks prior to the 7th. IDF soldiers were repeatedly warning that they could see Hamas members practicing to breach the fences and gates. Those soldiers who reported the incidents multiple times were told to stop reporting it, or risk being written up for insubordination.

 

I wouldn't believe their propaganda that they didn't want to attack civilians though.

 

They wanted to take civilians, and always have wanted to take them. They are bargaining tools to get back the hostages Israel keeps in its jail cells - thousands of women and children are locked up without any charges. Indefinite administrative detention, with a military court that successfully prosecutes over 99% of Palestinians. No one talks about little kids and women getting thrown in jail for 'throwing a stone' at a settler/IDF soldier. We only want to talk about the 130 remaining hostages in Gaza. I think we should have sympathy for hostages on both sides.

The difference being that the hostages being held by Hamas haven't even 'thrown stones' at anyone.    They are complete innocents!!    Btw, if you were hit by a thrown stone, it could kill you, especially when those stones are 'fired' by catapaults!

[Morch]

7 minutes ago, Greenhill said:

The difference being that the hostages being held by Hamas haven't even 'thrown stones' at anyone.    They are complete innocents!!    Btw, if you were hit by a thrown stone, it could kill you, especially when those stones are 'fired' by catapaults!

 

The Hamas would have a better 'case' had they released the civilian hostages, and kept the IDF soldiers (maybe releasing the female soldiers as well).

 

Same goes for the murders, rapes and all the rest.

Had it just been a military style incursion, it would have worked out better for them.

 

 

Edited January 25 by Morch

[ozimoron]

7 minutes ago, Greenhill said:

The difference being that the hostages being held by Hamas haven't even 'thrown stones' at anyone.    They are complete innocents!!    Btw, if you were hit by a thrown stone, it could kill you, especially when those stones are 'fired' by catapaults!

 

The soldiers wore armour and helmets. Shooting children throwing stones is a war crime.

[Jingthing]

54 minutes ago, ozimoron said:

 

The soldiers wore armour and helmets. Shooting children throwing stones is a war crime.

Why not just not throw stones, period? 

[ozimoron]

39 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

Why not just not throw stones, period? 

 

why not just not shoot them. period?

 

They're kids, ask them.

[Captain Monday]

11 hours ago, Jingthing said:

Typical pro Hamas garbage.

Throwing rocks at people is not a crime in your deluded world?

Children throwing rocks convicted to long sentences under military courts or indefinite detention under no conviction at all. An interesting point. Yes I’m sure as if resistance in the Warsaw ghetto was a crime under German “law” in Nazi occupation Arab children throwing stones on heavily armed soldiers is a crime.
 

As a member of the UN under its charter a disproportionate military response (such as dropping 2000 pound bombs in built up areas with zero regard for the civilian inhabitants thereof) is not a crime of course? 
 

You must be a rare man of Genius Jing or are simply trolling here making this ludicrous post. 
 

 

Edited January 25 by Captain Monday

[Nick Carter icp]

Just now, Captain Monday said:

Children throwing rocks convicted to long sentences under military courts or indefinite detention under no conviction at all. An interesting point. Yes I’m sure as if resistance in the Warsaw ghetto was a crime under German “law” in Nazi occupation Arab children throwing stones on heavily armed soldiers is a crime.
 

A a signed member of the UN  and under its charter a disproportionate military response (such as dropping 2000 pound bombs in built up areas with zero regard for the civilian inhabitants thereof) is not a crime of course 
 

You must be a rare man of Genius morch or are simply trolling here making this ludicrous post. 
 

 

 

   It is considered to be Anti semetic to compare Jews to Nazis and it is also offensive to Jews as well 

[Captain Monday]

3 minutes ago, Nick Carter icp said:

 

   It is considered to be Anti semetic to compare Jews to Nazis and it is also offensive to Jews as well 

I never criticize Jews I criticize the government of Israel. You caught me out before I could edit here as the post responding to was so so ridiculous I thought I was responding to another member. Resistance to an illegal occupation is not a crime under international law. 

[Nick Carter icp]

1 minute ago, Captain Monday said:

I never criticize Jews I criticize the government of Israel. You caught me out before I could edit here as the post responding to was so so ridiculous I thought I was responding to another member. Resistance to an illegal occupation is not a crime under international law. 

 

  Hamas invading Israel on Oct 7 th and attempting to occupy Israel and steal its land was a war crime by the Palestinians and Israel has the right to defend itself and seek justice for the Palestinian criminals 

[Jingthing]

13 minutes ago, Captain Monday said:

Children throwing rocks convicted to long sentences under military courts or indefinite detention under no conviction at all. An interesting point. Yes I’m sure as if resistance in the Warsaw ghetto was a crime under German “law” in Nazi occupation Arab children throwing stones on heavily armed soldiers is a crime.
 

As a member of the UN under its charter a disproportionate military response (such as dropping 2000 pound bombs in built up areas with zero regard for the civilian inhabitants thereof) is not a crime of course? 
 

You must be a rare man of Genius Jing or are simply trolling here making this ludicrous post. 
 

 

Another Jew hating post suggesting an equivalence of Israel with Nazis. 

You certainly aren't rare.

[Jingthing]

12 minutes ago, Nick Carter icp said:

 

   It is considered to be Anti semetic to compare Jews to Nazis and it is also offensive to Jews as well 

Very.

They know that and do it deliberately.

[Morch]

12 hours ago, ozimoron said:

 

The soldiers wore armour and helmets. Shooting children throwing stones is a war crime.

 

@ozimoron

 

It is you saying it's a war crime. You saying stuff doesn't make it real.

[Greenhill]

15 hours ago, ozimoron said:

 

why not just not shoot them. period?

 

They're kids, ask them.

If you were in the same situation, would you let your kids leave the house and throw stones at heavily armed soldiers??   I think if you sa soldiers on the streets outside your house, you would be anxious to keep your kids inside & safe - or not???

[ozimoron]

5 minutes ago, Greenhill said:

If you were in the same situation, would you let your kids leave the house and throw stones at heavily armed soldiers??   I think if you sa soldiers on the streets outside your house, you would be anxious to keep your kids inside & safe - or not???

 

I'd disown my child for shooting a child.

[Danny Australia]

16 hours ago, Jingthing said:

Another Jew hating post suggesting an equivalence of Israel with Nazis. 

You certainly aren't rare.

 

It's crucial to recognize the distinction between Judaism and Zionism. Being Jewish doesn't necessarily equate to being an Israeli citizen or a Zionist. Numerous open-minded and progressive Jews are critical of Israel and Zionism.

 

Drawing parallels between certain actions of the Israeli state and Nazism is a valid comparison and doesn't inherently involve anti-Semitism.

 

I am sure most Zionists are aware of this fact; they employ the accusation to manipulate perceptions, silence critics and sway opinions.

 

[Captain Monday]

17 hours ago, Nick Carter icp said:

 

  Hamas invading Israel on Oct 7 th and attempting to occupy Israel and steal its land was a war crime by the Palestinians and Israel has the right to defend itself and seek justice for the Palestinian criminals 

True, but in its self defense Israel does not have the right to commit further crimes against humanity. 

[Jingthing]

24 minutes ago, Danny Australia said:

 

It's crucial to recognize the distinction between Judaism and Zionism. Being Jewish doesn't necessarily equate to being an Israeli citizen or a Zionist. Numerous open-minded and progressive Jews are critical of Israel and Zionism.

 

Drawing parallels between certain actions of the Israeli state and Nazism is a valid comparison and doesn't inherently involve anti-Semitism.

 

I am sure most Zionists are aware of this fact; they employ the accusation to manipulate perceptions, silence critics and sway opinions.

 

Jewish means both a religion and a people.

It's different than Christianity and Islam that way.

Of course not all Jewish people are Israelis, religious, or Zionists.

The vast majority are Zionists.

Zionism simply means supporting the right of the Jewish people to political self determination. Many people Jews and otherwise are indeed Zionist without realizing it. Too many have bought into seeing the Zionist word as an insult or slur. 

 

In the modern context that means to support the right of Israel to exist and defend itself like any other nation state.

It certainly does NOT mean agreeing with every policy and action of Israeli governments.

On the equivalency of Israel and Nazis sorry I disagree with you.

That's intentionally meant to inflame and insult Jews because of the not so ancient history of the Shoah.

There is no need to play the Jews are the same as Nazis card when criticizing Israel. Period.

Edited January 26 by Jingthing

[ozimoron]

1 minute ago, Jingthing said:

Jewish means both a religion and a people.

It's different than Christianity and Islam that way.

Of course not all Jewish people are Israelis, religious, or Zionists.

The vast majority are Zionists.

Zionism simply means is the right of the Jewish people to political self determination.

In the modern context that means to support the right of Israel to exist and defend itself like any other nation state.

It certainly does NOT mean agreeing with every policy and action of Israeli governments.

On the equivalency of Israel and Nazis sorry I disagree with you.

That's intentionally meant to inflame and insult Jews because of the not so ancient history of the Shoah.

There is no need to play the Jews are the same as Nazis card when criticizing Israel. Period.

 

Israel is well established and it's right to exist is not contested outside of the Netanyahu backed Hamas extremists. It is internationally recognized as a sovereign state. Zionism simply wants to expand that state to included all the "promised lands". Recent statements by Israeli government ministers and Netanyahu leave no doubt that means the river to the sea. They have explicitly used those words. Zionism is a nationalist movement.

 

The question has thus been focused on by supporters of Zionism and anti-Zionists alike,[58] as in the absence of this biblical primacy, "the Zionist project falls prey to the pejorative categorization as ‘settler colonialism’ pursued under false assumptions, playing into the hands of Israel's critics and fueling the indignation of the displaced and stateless Palestinian people,"[57] whilst right-wing Israelis look for "a way of proving the occupation is legitimate, of authenticating the ethnos as a natural fact, and of defending Zionism as a return".

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zionism

 

 

[Morch]

3 hours ago, ozimoron said:

 

I'd disown my child for shooting a child.

 

@ozimoron

 

I'd disown you for the shame you bring on the family with your posts.

[ozimoron]

And for those who believe the UN funded the tunnels as a diversion from Netanyahu's complicity, the amount of funds funneled by Qatar to Hamas with the complicity of Netanyahu amounted to $1.8 billion and was the largest source of Hamas funds by far.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qatari_support_for_Hamas

[Morch]

31 minutes ago, Danny Australia said:

 

It's crucial to recognize the distinction between Judaism and Zionism. Being Jewish doesn't necessarily equate to being an Israeli citizen or a Zionist. Numerous open-minded and progressive Jews are critical of Israel and Zionism.

 

Drawing parallels between certain actions of the Israeli state and Nazism is a valid comparison and doesn't inherently involve anti-Semitism.

 

I am sure most Zionists are aware of this fact; they employ the accusation to manipulate perceptions, silence critics and sway opinions.

 

 

What is 'crucial', for some posters, is to deflect the topic from anything that might be construed as criticism of the Palestinian side, and not painting Israel as the worst thing ever.

 

And no, drawing Nazi parallels ins not 'valid'. It is an antisemitic trope by itself, designed to get a reaction, and offered for shock value. It says a whole lot more about the people making such comparisons than anything else. Pursuing this, you can have a choice of being labeled antisemitic, ignorant or both.

 

I am sure that you do not actually know what 'Zionists' think, given the wide range of views the label encompass. So yeah, maybe just ignorance after all.

[Morch]

12 minutes ago, Captain Monday said:

True, but in its self defense Israel does not have the right to commit further crimes against humanity. 

 

What 'crimes against humanity'? People on here are tossing labels and terms about like these are decided, accepted things. They are not.

What would you have Israel do? Stop at the border? Beg Hamas to return the hostages? Accept all Hamas demands? You offer meaningless words instead of addressing actual circumstances.

[Morch]

7 minutes ago, ozimoron said:

 

Israel is well established and it's right to exist is not contested outside of the Netanyahu backed Hamas extremists. It is internationally recognized as a sovereign state. Zionism simply wants to expand that state to included all the "promised lands". Recent statements by Israeli government ministers and Netanyahu leave no doubt that means the river to the sea. They have explicitly used those words. Zionism is a nationalist movement.

 

The question has thus been focused on by supporters of Zionism and anti-Zionists alike,[58] as in the absence of this biblical primacy, "the Zionist project falls prey to the pejorative categorization as ‘settler colonialism’ pursued under false assumptions, playing into the hands of Israel's critics and fueling the indignation of the displaced and stateless Palestinian people,"[57] whilst right-wing Israelis look for "a way of proving the occupation is legitimate, of authenticating the ethnos as a natural fact, and of defending Zionism as a return".

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zionism

 

 

 

@ozimoron

 

That would one of them examples of you bringing shame on the family, again.

 

Zionism encompass a a wide range of views. You choose to describe it using it's extreme elements. Not all Zionists are religious, not all Zionists believe in expansion, not all Zionists are anti-peace, or object to the two-state-solution.

 

You are, again, either showcasing your ignorance, or lying. Choose carefully.