Brickleberry Posted January 24 Share Posted January 24 6 minutes ago, Nick Carter icp said: Gaza was not occupied prior to October 7 th (Israel has the sovereign right to allow what it wants to in and out of its Country, so Israel can control its own borders) . So Hamas were not fighting for freedom, because Gaza was already free from Israel, which by your own reckoning, makes them terrorists Have a look at what Israel's own supreme court says on the matter: https://www.jstor.org/stable/resrep04760.3?seq=2 Quote While this paper will make mention of the viewpoints about whether Israel has, indeed, been an occupying power under international law, the intent of the research is not to dispute the long-accepted assertion in the international community, and which has also been supported by judicial decisions of Israel’s own Supreme Court, that Gaza has been considered occupied. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Carter icp Posted January 24 Share Posted January 24 3 minutes ago, placeholder said: I guess you missed the memo that said Israel and Egypt have been blockading Gaza since at least 2007. I didn't no , I did address that by stating that...................could you just read my post again ? C&p ed for you (Israel has the sovereign right to allow what it wants to in and out of its Country, so Israel can control its own borders) . 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Carter icp Posted January 24 Share Posted January 24 2 minutes ago, Brickleberry said: Have a look at what Israel's own supreme court says on the matter: https://www.jstor.org/stable/resrep04760.3?seq=2 That is the 7 th link that you have posted in this thread in 2 hours . I really do not have the time and inclination to keep opening your links and reading them and commenting on them , so I wont be looking at that 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NextG Posted January 24 Share Posted January 24 (edited) 13 minutes ago, Nick Carter icp said: Hamas wants large parts of a sovereign nation ? Hamas wants to attack another Country and keep the land . That would be a war crime to do that . That is another example of them being terrorists and not freedom fighters How about you stop your baiting? Followed by actually understanding the meaning of ‘sovereign state’ before you use it…. because you are falling into your own mouth. We ALL know that ‘Israel’ is a state born of terrorism. We ALL know that the Palestinian dwellers were displaced. We ALL know why organisations such as HAMAS exist. Playing the innocent just makes you look evil and stupid. Israel does not have clean hands in this conflict. If Russia succeeds in annexation of the four oblasts, will you be making the same statement in support of them? That (Russia has the sovereign right to allow what it wants to in and out of its Country, so Russia can control its own borders) Then I guess ‘might is right’ in your eyes. Edited January 24 by NextG 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WDSmart Posted January 24 Share Posted January 24 2 minutes ago, placeholder said: Well, they also espouse a genocidal agenda. Not that they have the means to actually carry it out. But still... No, they don't espouse a genocidal agenda. That's what the Zionists want to do with the Palestinians. Hamas only wants to regain control of the land that used to be theirs - Palestine. I've repeatedly said that before the 1920s, both Arabs/Muslims and Hebrews/Jews lived in peace in Palestine. It wasn't until after that when the Hebrews/Jews were given the land by the West as their "homeland," that they moved to take it completely over and call it "Israel." 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
placeholder Posted January 24 Share Posted January 24 1 minute ago, Nick Carter icp said: I didn't no , I did address that by stating that...................could you just read my post again ? C&p ed for you (Israel has the sovereign right to allow what it wants to in and out of its Country, so Israel can control its own borders) . Do you think that because you made the original quote, you have the right to misleadingly truncate it? Here it is once again in its entirety: You think a country that is under blockade by Israel and Egypt is "already free from Israel"? 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
placeholder Posted January 24 Share Posted January 24 1 minute ago, WDSmart said: No, they don't espouse a genocidal agenda. That's what the Zionists want to do with the Palestinians. Hamas only wants to regain control of the land that used to be theirs - Palestine. I've repeatedly said that before the 1920s, both Arabs/Muslims and Hebrews/Jews lived in peace in Palestine. It wasn't until after that when the Hebrews/Jews were given the land by the West as their "homeland," that they moved to take it completely over and call it "Israel." Well given that Hamas espouses a genocidal ideology, it doesn't only want "to regain control of the land that used to be theirs." 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brickleberry Posted January 24 Share Posted January 24 3 minutes ago, Nick Carter icp said: That is the 7 th link that you have posted in this thread in 2 hours . I really do not have the time and inclination to keep opening your links and reading them and commenting on them , so I wont be looking at that Well i also quoted the relevant part for you. I sent the link to show the source. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Carter icp Posted January 24 Share Posted January 24 Just now, placeholder said: Do you think that because you made the original quote, you have the right to misleadingly truncate it? Here it is once again in its entirety: You think a country that is under blockade by Israel and Egypt is "already free from Israel"? I did say that Gaza was not occupied by Israel and Israel has the right to control its borders and allow goods in and out , like all other Countries do . Israel is under no obligation to supply Gaza with anything 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bkk Brian Posted January 24 Share Posted January 24 9 minutes ago, NextG said: How about you stop your baiting? Followed by actually understanding the meaning of ‘sovereign state’ before you use it…. because you are falling into your own mouth. We ALL know that ‘Israel’ is a state born of terrorism. We ALL know that the Palestinian dwellers were displaced. We ALL know why organisations such as HAMAS exist. Playing the innocent just makes you look evil and stupid. Israel does not have clean hands in this conflict. If Russia succeeds in annexation of the four oblasts, will you be making the same statement in support of them? That (Russia has the sovereign right to allow what it wants to in and out of its Country, so Russia can control its own borders) Then I guess ‘might is right’ in your eyes. Lets not bring Russia into this eh, the topic has enough distractions already, have you read all the lies in the document Hamas published? The topic of this tread? 1 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WDSmart Posted January 24 Share Posted January 24 8 minutes ago, placeholder said: Well given that Hamas espouses a genocidal ideology, it doesn't only want "to regain control of the land that used to be theirs." I disagree, but that's just my opinion. I don't have any "inside" information as to what else Hamas wants to do other than regain control of Palestine. They may think that requires the elimination of all Jews there, but not all Jews everywhere. That, again, IMO, is what the Zionists want regarding Arab Muslims in what is now called Israel. As I have said, I favor a one-state solution where BOTH Jews and Muslims inhabit Palestine, but I don't think that is ever going to happen. It's going to be one or the other, and right now, it looks like it will be the Jews. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
placeholder Posted January 24 Share Posted January 24 10 minutes ago, Nick Carter icp said: I did say that Gaza was not occupied by Israel and Israel has the right to control its borders and allow goods in and out , like all other Countries do . Israel is under no obligation to supply Gaza with anything You claimed Gaza was free from Israel. That's just nonsense. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Carter icp Posted January 24 Share Posted January 24 17 minutes ago, NextG said: How about you stop your baiting? Followed by actually understanding the meaning of ‘sovereign state’ before you use it…. because you are falling into your own mouth. Israel is indeed a Sovereign Nation That is the reality, and it isn't "baiting" (BTW, the bullet points that you stated doesn't make it NOT a sovereign state) 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WDSmart Posted January 24 Share Posted January 24 3 minutes ago, Nick Carter icp said: Israel is indeed a Sovereign Nation That is the reality, and it isn't "baiting" (BTW, the bullet points that you stated doesn't make it NOT a sovereign state) Nick Carter is: Do you also then claim that Gaza and The West Bank are a sovereign state? If not, what are they? 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Carter icp Posted January 24 Share Posted January 24 (edited) 38 minutes ago, placeholder said: Do you think that because you made the original quote, you have the right to misleadingly truncate it? Here it is once again in its entirety: You think a country that is under blockade by Israel and Egypt is "already free from Israel"? Yes, I do The original claim was that Israel occupied Gaza , and that Hamas were freedom fighters fighting for freedom from Israeli occupation . My point was that Gaza wasn't occupied and was also free from Israel so Hamas weren't freedom fighters Edited January 24 by Nick Carter icp 1 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Carter icp Posted January 24 Share Posted January 24 1 minute ago, WDSmart said: Nick Carter is: Do you also then claim that Gaza and The West Bank are a sovereign state? If not, what are they? They are not sovereign states, no . Its vacant land that Jordon and Egypt didn't want and they gave it away , its still undecided who the new owners of the land are going to be 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WDSmart Posted January 24 Share Posted January 24 (edited) 14 minutes ago, Nick Carter icp said: They are not sovereign states, no . Its vacant land that Jordon and Egypt didn't want and they gave it away , its still undecided who the new owners of the land are going to be I don't disagree that Gaza and The West Bank are not sovereign states, but I do disagree that it was "vacant land that Jordon and Egypt didn't want and they gave it away." These were part of Palestine, as was what is now called "Israel," and belong to the Palestinians, as does, IMO, all of what is now called "Israel." Edited January 24 by WDSmart 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Carter icp Posted January 24 Share Posted January 24 1 minute ago, WDSmart said: I don't disagree that Gaza and The West Bank are not sovereign states, but I do disagree that it was "vacant land that Jordon and Egypt didn't want and they gave it away." These were part of Palestine, as was what is now called "Israel," and belong to the Palestinians, as doesn't, IMO all of what is now called "Israel." They were not part of Palestine , there has never been a Country called Palestine 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danny Australia Posted January 24 Share Posted January 24 For 17 years, Gaza endured a brutal siege encompassing land, air, and marine restrictions, resulting in staggering levels of unemployment, pervasive poverty, and a prevailing sense of hopelessness. Israel wielded complete control, dictating who could enter or exit Gaza, denying medical treatment to the sick, and obstructing students from pursuing their studies without Israeli approval. Israel also held sway over vital resources like water, electricity, and communications. Along the Gaza shores, fishermen faced peril as stray ventures beyond designated fishing zones led to gunfire or destruction of fishing boats. The harsh conditions imposed on the region set the stage for an attempted jailbreak on October 7, revealing a context rife with grievances and motivations. 1 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Carter icp Posted January 24 Share Posted January 24 3 minutes ago, Danny Australia said: For 17 years, Gaza endured a brutal siege encompassing land, air, and marine restrictions, resulting in staggering levels of unemployment, pervasive poverty, and a prevailing sense of hopelessness. Israel wielded complete control, dictating who could enter or exit Gaza, denying medical treatment to the sick, and obstructing students from pursuing their studies without Israeli approval. Israel also held sway over vital resources like water, electricity, and communications. Along the Gaza shores, fishermen faced peril as stray ventures beyond designated fishing zones led to gunfire or destruction of fishing boats. The harsh conditions imposed on the region set the stage for an attempted jailbreak on October 7, revealing a context rife with grievances and motivations. The only "jailbreak" in history where the escaped inmates turned around and went straight back to jail again . BTW, how yours genocide against the Aborigines coming on ? Don't they live apart from you ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WDSmart Posted January 24 Share Posted January 24 12 minutes ago, Nick Carter icp said: They were not part of Palestine , there has never been a Country called Palestine The area we are talking about was referred to as "Palestine" by even the Balfour Declaration of 1917 which set this whole catastrophe into motion. 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WDSmart Posted January 24 Share Posted January 24 9 minutes ago, Nick Carter icp said: The only "jailbreak" in history where the escaped inmates turned around and went straight back to jail again . BTW, how yours genocide against the Aborigines coming on ? Don't they live apart from you ? Yes! The genocide of the Aborigines by the Aussies and the genocide of the American Indians by what is now called the US (my home country) is EXACTLY what is happening now with the Zionist takeover of Palestine. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Carter icp Posted January 24 Share Posted January 24 2 minutes ago, WDSmart said: Yes! The genocide of the Aborigines by the Aussies and the genocide of the American Indians by what is now called the US (my home country) is EXACTLY what is happening now with the Zionist takeover of Palestine. Well apart from the genocide of the American Indians and the Aborigines , their populations significantly declined , whilst the genocide of the Palestinians, their populations have hugely increased , so much so that the Palestinians have one of the World highest population increases . Those are quite significant differences in the genocides . Ones populations decreases , the others population increases 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danny Australia Posted January 24 Share Posted January 24 15 minutes ago, Nick Carter icp said: The only "jailbreak" in history where the escaped inmates turned around and went straight back to jail again . BTW, how yours genocide against the Aborigines coming on ? Don't they live apart from you ? I condemn all genocides no matter who is the perpetrator or the victim. This is precisely why the ongoing genocide in Gaza is/should be condemned. I don’t follow your logic though, are you hinting that a genocide against the aborigines in Australia justifies one in Gaza? 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WDSmart Posted January 24 Share Posted January 24 (edited) 11 minutes ago, Nick Carter icp said: Well apart from the genocide of the American Indians and the Aborigines , their populations significantly declined , whilst the genocide of the Palestinians, their populations have hugely increased , so much so that the Palestinians have one of the World highest population increases . Those are quite significant differences in the genocides . Ones populations decreases , the others population increases Well, the Palestinian population has decreased by about 25,000 since Oct 7, and I suspect that will continue for a while longer. We'll have to wait and see what it is after the Zionists have satisfied their Terrorist and Expulsion-fighting activities. Edited January 24 by WDSmart 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Carter icp Posted January 24 Share Posted January 24 3 minutes ago, WDSmart said: Well, the Palestinian population has decreased by about 25,000 since Oct 7, and I suspect that will continue for a while longer. We'll have to wait and see what it is after the Zionists have satisfied their Terrorist and Annihilation-fighting activities. Yes, but there wouldn't have been any deaths at all , had they not attempted genocide on the Israeli Jews on Oct 7 th . They are deaths in a war , rather then genocide , as Hamas could immediately put a stop to it if they wanted it to stop 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Carter icp Posted January 24 Share Posted January 24 17 minutes ago, Danny Australia said: I condemn all genocides no matter who is the perpetrator or the victim. This is precisely why the ongoing genocide in Gaza is/should be condemned. I don’t follow your logic though, are you hinting that a genocide against the aborigines in Australia justifies one in Gaza? I was suggesting that you take a loom in the mirror, rather than pointing fingers at other people . I don't see Israel taking away Palestinian babies en masse , like Australia did with Aborigine babies' May be pointing fingers at Israel lessens your guilt feelings ? *They are the bad guys, not us* ? 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NextG Posted January 24 Share Posted January 24 1 hour ago, Nick Carter icp said: Israel is indeed a Sovereign Nation That is the reality, and it isn't "baiting" (BTW, the bullet points that you stated doesn't make it NOT a sovereign state) ‘Sovereign state’ was entirely irrelevant in the first place. That was just silly baiting on your part. Not everyone here is biased towards Israel. Some of us still have some integrity left within us and prefer to look at the whole picture. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NextG Posted January 24 Share Posted January 24 13 minutes ago, Nick Carter icp said: Yes, but there wouldn't have been any deaths at all , had they not attempted genocide on the Israeli Jews on Oct 7 th . They are deaths in a war , rather then genocide , as Hamas could immediately put a stop to it if they wanted it to stop There are always deaths. Snipers have even shot journalists, apart from boys throwing stones. Israel often acts in a disproportionate manner in order to ‘deter’ any resistance. Also a form of terrorism. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Carter icp Posted January 24 Share Posted January 24 5 minutes ago, NextG said: ‘Sovereign state’ was entirely irrelevant in the first place. That was just silly baiting on your part. Not everyone here is biased towards Israel. Some of us still have some integrity left within us and prefer to look at the whole picture. It was relevant in the fact that Israel has the right to do what its pleases with its borders . Pleas don't talk about integrity when you side with murderers, rapists , baby killers, hostages takers and war criminals and terrorists and mass murderers 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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