Hamas: Oct 7 was 'necessary, normal response' to 'Israeli conspiracies'

[Morch]

2 minutes ago, Brickleberry said:

 

Yes,

 

Yes what?

 

Who was murdered? What were you on about?

And do you realize that what I outlined did not appear in your post?

[Morch]

6 minutes ago, Brickleberry said:

 

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/oct/31/assassination-yitzhak-rabin-never-knew-his-people-shot-him-in-back

 

Yes, I am well aware. I'm not sure you are though. Hamas were up against the PLO & Fatah. Not the PA.

 

 

 

Are you on drugs?

 

Your original post was about

 

Quote

Israel assassinated the peace maker leader of the Palestinian people

 

Rabin was the Israeli Prime Minister.

 

As for your belief in conspiracy theories, that's entirely up to you - but since it's neither fact nor credible, you'd have to toss that aside if you want to continue this exchange.

 

The PLO/Fatah was the PA...duh. Still is. That's pretty much one of the standing points on contention.

 

Rabin was murdered in 1995.

There were Palestinian legislative elections in 1996 which Hamas boycotted.

The elections Hamas won were 10 years later.

 

You're all over the place.

 

 

[Robert Paulson]

Watching terrorists groups call eachother terrorists is quite entertaining. Maybe look at a scoreboard of which terrorist group has more kills if you’re confused on which one is worse

[Brickleberry]

5 minutes ago, Morch said:

 

Are you on drugs?

 

Your original post was about

 

 

Rabin was the Israeli Prime Minister.

 

As for your belief in conspiracy theories, that's entirely up to you - but since it's neither fact nor credible, you'd have to toss that aside if you want to continue this exchange.

 

The PLO/Fatah was the PA...duh. Still is. That's pretty much one of the standing points on contention.

 

Rabin was murdered in 1995.

There were Palestinian legislative elections in 1996 which Hamas boycotted.

The elections Hamas won were 10 years later.

 

You're all over the place.

 

 

Nope. Wrong again. You said they were up against the PA. The PA were in the West Bank, and were formed by ex members of the PLO

 

Fatah, PLO and Hamas were the main players in Gaza at the time.

[Morch]

1 minute ago, Brickleberry said:

Nope. Wrong again. You said they were up against the PA. The PA were in the West Bank, and were formed by ex members of the PLO

 

Fatah, PLO and Hamas were the main players in Gaza at the time.

 

The PA stands for Palestinian Authority. The core officials, elected or otherwise where (and are) members of the Fatah/PLO.

You're probably confusing this with the initials of some minor Palestinian organization/party.

 

And still nothing to do with your nonsense about Rabin.

[Morch]

4 minutes ago, Robert Paulson said:

Watching terrorists groups call eachother terrorists is quite entertaining. Maybe look at a scoreboard of which terrorist group has more kills if you’re confused on which one is worse

 

Hamas is designated a terrorist organization by quite a few Western and ME countries.

Israel is not.

Try harder, 'newcomer'.

[Wobblybob]

6 minutes ago, Robert Paulson said:

Watching terrorists groups call eachother terrorists is quite entertaining. Maybe look at a scoreboard of which terrorist group has more kills if you’re confused on which one is worse

Prevention is better than cure! 

[Nick Carter icp]

2 hours ago, retarius said:

I agree 110%....yes Hamas was authorise by Israel's occupation to attack and occupying force. The subsequent butchery by IDF what we already knew about the occupiers and oppressors.

 

   Do you have any proof of that allegation ?

Any evidence that Israel authorised the Oct 7 th terror attack ?

[Nick Carter icp]

1 hour ago, Brickleberry said:

 

Well that's only because Israel assassinated the peace maker leader of the Palestinian people, and so Hamas won the election - the first time it had ever participated in one.

 

If Israel (they claim he was a lone actor, I doubt this very much) had not assassinated the guy (I can't remember his name), they would not have to deal with Hamas, they would probably have to deal with the guy who wanted two states and to make peace. Both things that Bibi had no intention of doing, and he was the Prime Minister at the time.

 

  Rabin was assassinated by a lone wolf , it was done independently by one person .

He wasn't assassinated by Israel as a Country , he was assassinated by an Israeli, as in one person .

You can doubt it all you like , but what makes you doubt it ?

[Greenhill]

On 1/23/2024 at 3:17 PM, Brickleberry said:

 

Me too, we agree.

 

However, they will keep doing it until they get an independent state. This is the only solution.

 

Can you agree that Bibi & his right wing pals have been an obstacle to peace since 1996? Can you agree that Bibi helped Hamas become what they are?

 

https://www.timesofisrael.com/for-years-netanyahu-propped-up-hamas-now-its-blown-up-in-our-faces/

 

There is NO excuse or raison d'être for Hamas's outrageous, barbaric actions on 7th October - NONE!!!!

[Greenhill]

7 hours ago, retarius said:

I agree 110%....yes Hamas was authorise by Israel's occupation to attack and occupying force. The subsequent butchery by IDF what we already knew about the occupiers and oppressors.

So, Hamas takes their orders from Israel????    Well, that is a new idea!!!    Any evidence for that ridiculous 'fact'?

[Robert Paulson]

10 hours ago, Morch said:

 

Hamas is designated a terrorist organization by quite a few Western and ME countries.

Israel is not.

Try harder, 'newcomer'.

Maybe look at a scoreboard. As I said. Who’s suffocated more babies under rubble. But I guess in your little world that doesn’t count, whatever the western countries say is the truth lol are you still looking for wmd in Iraq too? 

[WDSmart]

12 hours ago, Morch said:

 

You do not know me form other forums. I was referring to previous topics on this forum.

 

That you express your opinions 'for years' doesn't make them any more correct or relevant. They are, however, nonsense opinions as they have no basis in  fact.

 

It is not even a question of 'bias', it's just you out of touch with reality.

I do remember you from another forum about a month or two ago on this same topic. 

What I mean by expressing my opinions "for years" is I haven't changed them. I still have the same ones I had years ago, before the Hamas attack on Oct 7. That action did not change my overall opinion on this crisis. Most of my opinions do have a basis "in fact," if by "in fact" you mean they are the same as someone else's opinion that has been expressed on some trusted medium by some trusted source.

I am not out of touch with reality. Your problem is you only see one reality from a biased viewpoint and refuse to entertain any other perspective on reality. You think there's only one correct viewpoint of reality, and of course, that's yours. There are many viewpoints and perspectives on reality. You may not agree with them, but they are not all "wrong." They are just different from yours. 

 

[radiochaser]

15 hours ago, NextG said:

When in Israel, I saw people not in uniform walking around with rifles. 

I have thought about going to Israel a few times, listened to radio shows where the host has set up tours to Israel, but now ... With the terrorist hamas attack against civilians and then them lying about who they did/would attack as being only gun toting military that were facing them.  

 

I am not going to go on a tour to Israel, because of hamas and their supporting palestinians!

[WDSmart]

16 minutes ago, radiochaser said:

I have thought about going to Israel a few times, listened to radio shows where the host has set up tours to Israel, but now ... With the terrorist hamas attack against civilians and then them lying about who they did/would attack as being only gun toting military that were facing them.  

 

I am not going to go on a tour to Israel, because of hamas and their supporting palestinians!

I have never wanted to go to Israel, and I agree with your decision now not to go on a tour of Israel. I think things there will remain unsettled for the foreseeable future. That could be many years, and things might even get worse there. 

[radiochaser]

2 minutes ago, WDSmart said:

I have never wanted to go to Israel, and I agree with your decision now not to go on a tour of Israel. I think things there will remain unsettled for the foreseeable future. That could be many years, and things might even get worse there. 

I like old things (except that old fart looking at me from the weird window in the bathroom).   Israel has old things that I would like to see.   But not badly enough to go there now.

[Neeranam]

On 1/23/2024 at 2:31 PM, Morch said:

 

Hamas's policy is that any male Israeli of fighting age is a combatant. I'm not arguing for this position, which is obviously bogus, just giving some relevant background on how Hamas frames things.

 

As for firearms and Israeli civilians - in years past, what you posted was true. Hard enough for ordinary citizens to have them (with some exceptions, like them illegal settlers in the West Bank). Very recently, the government changed these laws (pushed as a response to 7/10 as an excuse, and spearheaded by the extreme right-wing elements within) - making it super easy to get hold of a firearm. Tens of thousands of permits issued - a whole lot of problems with the hasty process already surfacing.

 

With regard to the settlements near the Gaza Strip: Each one had a security squad - which are basically volunteers (or maybe getting token payment/benefits, not sure these days and laws are currently being changed), mostly veterans with combat training (at least theoretically) who are supposed to act as first responders until police/army forces arrive. Arms (other than privately owned) are stored in a weapon depot, not in volunteers' houses or anything. Numbers of both squad members and arms made available were an issue of contention for some time, even before the 7/10 attack.

Please provide the source for this. You ask me for links on factual claims. 

Links please! 

 

[radiochaser]

55 minutes ago, Neeranam said:

Please provide the source for this. You ask me for links on factual claims. 

Links please! 

 

Edited to add this question.   Was a music festival, an Israeli military site?

They claim it was accidental ...

... we in the Islamic Resistance Movement – Hamas clarify
the following:
1. Operation Al-Aqsa Flood on Oct. 7 targeted the Israeli
military sites, and sought to arrest the enemy’s soldiers to
pressure on the Israeli authorities to release the thousands of
Palestinians held in Israeli jails through a prisoners exchange
deal. Therefore, the operation focused on destroying the
Israeli army’s Gaza Division, the Israeli military sites stationed
near the Israeli settlements around Gaza.
2. Avoiding harm to civilians, especially children, women
and elderly people is a religious and moral commitment
by all the Al-Qassam Brigades’ fighters. We reiterate
that the Palestinian resistance was fully disciplined and
committed to the Islamic values during the operation
and that the Palestinian fighters only targeted the
occupation soldiers and those who carried weapons
against our people. In the meantime, the Palestinian
fighters were keen to avoid harming civilians despite
the fact that the resistance does not possess precise
weapons. In addition, if there was any case of targeting
civilians; it happened accidently and in the course of
the confrontation with the occupation forces.


https://www.timesofisrael.com/in-coded-doc-hamas-instructed-terrorists-to-kill-civilians-take-captives-report/

 

In coded doc, Hamas instructed terrorists to kill civilians, take captives – report

Document found in vehicle used by Gaza-ruling terror group in devastating attack said to include code words for massacring people or using those taken captive as human shields

 

Edited January 25 by radiochaser

[Neeranam]

4 minutes ago, radiochaser said:

They claim it was accidental ...

... we in the Islamic Resistance Movement – Hamas clarify
the following:
1. Operation Al-Aqsa Flood on Oct. 7 targeted the Israeli
military sites, and sought to arrest the enemy’s soldiers to
pressure on the Israeli authorities to release the thousands of
Palestinians held in Israeli jails through a prisoners exchange
deal. Therefore, the operation focused on destroying the
Israeli army’s Gaza Division, the Israeli military sites stationed
near the Israeli settlements around Gaza.
2. Avoiding harm to civilians, especially children, women
and elderly people is a religious and moral commitment
by all the Al-Qassam Brigades’ fighters. We reiterate
that the Palestinian resistance was fully disciplined and
committed to the Islamic values during the operation
and that the Palestinian fighters only targeted the
occupation soldiers and those who carried weapons
against our people. In the meantime, the Palestinian
fighters were keen to avoid harming civilians despite
the fact that the resistance does not possess precise
weapons. In addition, if there was any case of targeting
civilians; it happened accidently and in the course of
the confrontation with the occupation forces.


https://www.timesofisrael.com/in-coded-doc-hamas-instructed-terrorists-to-kill-civilians-take-captives-report/

 

In coded doc, Hamas instructed terrorists to kill civilians, take captives – report

Document found in vehicle used by Gaza-ruling terror group in devastating attack said to include code words for massacring people or using those taken captive as human shields

 

Interesting, thanks.

So Hamas were only after the IDF soldiers. Kind of like Israel are only after the Hamas soldiers.

[Bkk Brian]

5 minutes ago, Neeranam said:

Interesting, thanks.

So Hamas were only after the IDF soldiers. Kind of like Israel are only after the Hamas soldiers.

No otherwise they would not have gone and massacred, raped and taken hostage those in the Kibbutz's. 

 

Thanks for letting us know you believe everything Hamas says though.

[Neeranam]

6 minutes ago, radiochaser said:

As you replied, I edited my post to ask the question, was a music festival an Israeli military site?

My reply was to the following - 

Quote

.. we in the Islamic Resistance Movement – Hamas clarify
the following:
1. Operation Al-Aqsa Flood on Oct. 7 targeted the Israeli
military sites, and sought to arrest the enemy’s soldiers to
pressure on the Israeli authorities to release the thousands of
Palestinians held in Israeli jails through a prisoners exchange
deal. Therefore, the operation focused on destroying the
Israeli army’s Gaza Division, the Israeli military sites stationed
near the Israeli settlements around Gaza.
2. Avoiding harm to civilians, especially children, women
and elderly people is a religious and moral commitment
by all the Al-Qassam Brigades’ fighters. We reiterate
that the Palestinian resistance was fully disciplined and
committed to the Islamic values during the operation
and that the Palestinian fighters only targeted the
occupation soldiers and those who carried weapons
against our people. In the meantime, the Palestinian
fighters were keen to avoid harming civilians despite
the fact that the resistance does not possess precise
weapons. In addition, if there was any case of targeting
civilians; it happened accidently and in the course of
the confrontation with the occupation forces.

 

[Bkk Brian]

2 minutes ago, Neeranam said:

My reply was to the following - 

 

Which still confirms you believed what they said.

[Morch]

5 hours ago, Robert Paulson said:

Maybe look at a scoreboard. As I said. Who’s suffocated more babies under rubble. But I guess in your little world that doesn’t count, whatever the western countries say is the truth lol are you still looking for wmd in Iraq too? 

 

Nope.

This was you making a comment which you cannot back up, and now trying to use fake outrage to waffle out of.

Never said anything about Iraq, and the topic isn't about that. Any other deflections you want to offer?

[Robert Paulson]

1 minute ago, Morch said:

 

Nope.

This was you making a comment which you cannot back up, and now trying to use fake outrage to waffle out of.

Never said anything about Iraq, and the topic isn't about that. Any other deflections you want to offer?

Me deflect? lol go ahead and address the issue at hand all you want: the scoreboard for babies suffocated under rubble. Who exactly has a higher count? 

[Morch]

4 hours ago, WDSmart said:

I do remember you from another forum about a month or two ago on this same topic. 

What I mean by expressing my opinions "for years" is I haven't changed them. I still have the same ones I had years ago, before the Hamas attack on Oct 7. That action did not change my overall opinion on this crisis. Most of my opinions do have a basis "in fact," if by "in fact" you mean they are the same as someone else's opinion that has been expressed on some trusted medium by some trusted source.

I am not out of touch with reality. Your problem is you only see one reality from a biased viewpoint and refuse to entertain any other perspective on reality. You think there's only one correct viewpoint of reality, and of course, that's yours. There are many viewpoints and perspectives on reality. You may not agree with them, but they are not all "wrong." They are just different from yours. 

 

 

Same forum, different topic. Again, seems like you have a wider issue with basic terms.

 

That you haven't changed you opinion in years doesn't mean much. It does not make them more correct, worthier or anything. As for facts, you have demonstrated a rather amazing ignorance of such, can't take your words seriously. And no, your version of 'facts' is not something widely acknowledged or accepted by 'trusted mediums'.

 

I do not think that there's only one true reality, I think that the one you tout is a lie. That difference. If you think that there are no such things as 'wrong' and 'right', guess you can wallow content in your nihilistic bubble.

[Bkk Brian]

1 hour ago, Neeranam said:

Please provide the source for this. You ask me for links on factual claims. 

Links please! 

 

There are sources for all of it. Its widely available, here's the first points source:

 

"Hamas to demand a far higher price for the freeing of other categories of hostages: elderly men; male civilians of military age who are considered “combatants” by Hamas; and actual soldiers, male and female."

https://www.economist.com/middle-east-and-africa/2023/11/30/israels-truce-with-hamas-is-drawing-to-a-close

https://archive.ph/f4XeE

 

When you acknowledge that point I get to some of the others.

[Morch]

4 minutes ago, Robert Paulson said:

Me deflect? lol go ahead and address the issue at hand all you want: the scoreboard for babies suffocated under rubble. Who exactly has a higher count? 

 

That's not the issue, though, but how you chose to deflect in reply to my comment.

And yes, bringing in Iraq is definitely a deflection.

Try harder.

[Morch]

1 hour ago, Neeranam said:

Please provide the source for this. You ask me for links on factual claims. 

Links please! 

 

 

All of this was covered on previous topics.

Maybe if you wouldn't have so many posters on 'ignore' (or pretend to), you'd have a clue.

[Morch]

45 minutes ago, radiochaser said:

Edited to add this question.   Was a music festival, an Israeli military site?

They claim it was accidental ...

... we in the Islamic Resistance Movement – Hamas clarify
the following:
1. Operation Al-Aqsa Flood on Oct. 7 targeted the Israeli
military sites, and sought to arrest the enemy’s soldiers to
pressure on the Israeli authorities to release the thousands of
Palestinians held in Israeli jails through a prisoners exchange
deal. Therefore, the operation focused on destroying the
Israeli army’s Gaza Division, the Israeli military sites stationed
near the Israeli settlements around Gaza.
2. Avoiding harm to civilians, especially children, women
and elderly people is a religious and moral commitment
by all the Al-Qassam Brigades’ fighters. We reiterate
that the Palestinian resistance was fully disciplined and
committed to the Islamic values during the operation
and that the Palestinian fighters only targeted the
occupation soldiers and those who carried weapons
against our people. In the meantime, the Palestinian
fighters were keen to avoid harming civilians despite
the fact that the resistance does not possess precise
weapons. In addition, if there was any case of targeting
civilians; it happened accidently and in the course of
the confrontation with the occupation forces.


https://www.timesofisrael.com/in-coded-doc-hamas-instructed-terrorists-to-kill-civilians-take-captives-report/

 

In coded doc, Hamas instructed terrorists to kill civilians, take captives – report

Document found in vehicle used by Gaza-ruling terror group in devastating attack said to include code words for massacring people or using those taken captive as human shields

 

 

Hamas makes a whole lot of claims, mostly to dodge the obvious.

The party was not on an army base, and it wasn't even the first time a party was held there.

There were a whole lot of Hamas men about, kinda doubt that would have happened by 'accident'.

Also, even if they happened on the party by 'accident' - doesn't go toward explaining the massacre that followed.

[Neeranam]

20 hours ago, Morch said:

 

Are you on drugs?

 

Your original post was about

 

 

Rabin was the Israeli Prime Minister.

 

As for your belief in conspiracy theories, that's entirely up to you - but since it's neither fact nor credible, you'd have to toss that aside if you want to continue this exchange.

 

The PLO/Fatah was the PA...duh. Still is. That's pretty much one of the standing points on contention.

 

Rabin was murdered in 1995.

There were Palestinian legislative elections in 1996 which Hamas boycotted.

The elections Hamas won were 10 years later.

 

You're all over the place.

 

 

You know very well what happened. 

Just to remind you. 

 

Israel’s head of internal security asked Netanyahu to dial down the rhetoric, warning that the prime minister’s life was in danger. Netanyahu declined. Perhaps he, like Rabin, didn’t imagine an Israeli Jew would ever kill one of their own; any threat surely came from elsewhere.

 

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/oct/31/assassination-yitzhak-rabin-never-knew-his-people-shot-him-in-back