Do they check paperwork? (TEFL accreditation, bachelor's degree)

[TeacherJane]

I was told that by law, TEFL certificates need to be accredited, so they can be checked. But do they ever check fake degrees? Because I doubt everyone with a fake bachelor's or TEFL has been deported. My intuition is nobody cares, and the papers are some formality

[Celsius]

when I moved here 10 years ago I thought I might teach in case I needed the money. From the research I done even back then they were checking the degrees pretty seriously. I brought original degree and sealed transcripts from my university because that is what I heard every school asked for.

 

 

Edited January 28 by Celsius

[Denim]

24 minutes ago, TeacherJane said:

I was told that by law, TEFL certificates need to be accredited, so they can be checked. But do they ever check fake degrees? Because I doubt everyone with a fake bachelor's or TEFL has been deported. My intuition is nobody cares, and the papers are some formality

 

From time to time they have crackdowns and people do get arrested. From memory I think 2 foreigners were given a 6 month jail sentance for this then deported. 

 

Cant post the link but if you want it PM me.

 

 

Edited January 28 by Denim

[HappyExpat57]

In a word, yes.  The days of backpackers coming in for a temporary teaching gig using a fake degree are over.

[it is what it is]

i'm not a teacher, but surely if you're not qualified and experienced you have no place being in a classroom. would you go to an unqualified doctor? dentist? pay for legal advice from an unqualified lawyer? etc...

 

i would be extremely unhappy, to put it mildly, if my children were being taught by some random bloke who rocked up at a school and was given responsibility for educating and safeguarding my children

[Rhys]

At a southern uni, years ago...a Chinese prof was sent back to China for a fake online degree...He came over first before the official letter was sent.. Another Chinese teacher caught it...

[proton]

Sounds like Jane may have fake qualifications and getting jittery. I would not regard even a TEFL as adequate, just a bit of paper for doing a course nobody appears to fail on. If you have not got a teaching qualification and experience please do NOT come here pretending you can teach Englsih. Thai kids deserve the best, and that's not Western, African and Philippine  riff raff with a fake degree or TEFL.

Edited January 28 by proton

[proton]

1 hour ago, Denim said:

 

From time to time they have crackdowns and people do get arrested. From memory I think 2 foreigners were given a 6 month jail sentance for this then deported. 

 

Cant post the link but if you want it PM me.

 

 

Jail and deportation needs to happen more often, messing about with the education of Thai kids is indeed a crime

[HappyExpat57]

BTW, TEFL certificates are not a requirement for employment as a teacher in Thailand, so there is no requirement for them to be certified.

 

Minimum of a legitimate Bachelors and transcripts that DO need some sort of certification/verification IS required to get a work permit. But, op,  I have a sneaking suspicion you were already aware of this.

[proton]

3 minutes ago, HappyExpat57 said:

BTW, TEFL certificates are not a requirement for employment as a teacher in Thailand, so there is no requirement for them to be certified.

 

Minimum of a legitimate Bachelors and transcripts that DO need some sort of certification/verification IS required to get a work permit. But, op,  I have a sneaking suspicion you were already aware of this.

 

In international and Thai schools, hopefully. English language schools of the sort you see in shopping centres are notorious for employing unqualified staff.

[HappyExpat57]

1 minute ago, proton said:

 

In international and Thai schools, hopefully. English language schools of the sort you see in shopping centers are notorious for employing unqualified staff.

 

And there are no work permits provided for the teachers at these places.

[Brickleberry]

I certainly hope so. I don't pay school fees for unqualified teachers.

 

Qualifications are not a formality, they are a necessity. They prove you are capable of doing the job.

[recom273]

There is no TEFL governing body, so accredited TEFL courses are a bit of a misnomer, some are accredited by some schools or organizations. If you look closely, you often find that these organizations are connected to the school that's offering the certification. So, no they dont check the accreditation - however, as mentioned, you dont need a TEFL certificate to teach - teachers who worked at my agency were asked to provide TEFL certificates by the labour office, most just did a $20 course online, smashed out in a day to keep everyone sweet. It doesnt stop people from studying a well respected TEFL course, but even then just because you pay good money, doesnt mean its a good course.

 

Degrees - Not really checked, because imho, who from Thailand is going to make a call to a university to check. I was told by a school manager, that they could tell who had a fake degree by touching the quality of the paper, they would know and wouldn't care, at that time, they just needed to see a degree. I think that in this day and age of data protection and privacy the person who picks up the phone won't be able to confirm or deny. However, it's not as simple as that, you will need a teachers license, to receive a waiver, I think you must provide sealed university transcripts. Anyone can provide a fake degree certificate, you can make them yourself, but to provide authentic looking transcripts is impossible. No one is going to check you paperwork, but if you cant provide the right papers, then immigration isn't going to grant you an extension of stay, therefore there is no need to check degrees, the system is self policing. Things are a little different for older teachers who may find it difficult to provide papers other than a dog-eared photocopy of their degree certificate, but it think these guys are gradually fading away. Fresh graduates should be able to provide the correct papers.

 

 

[Pouatchee]

3 hours ago, Celsius said:

I brought original degree and sealed transcripts from my university because that is what I heard every school asked for.

 

this is the practice in south korea... not thailand

[NoDisplayName]

3 hours ago, TeacherJane said:

I was told that by law, TEFL certificates need to be accredited, so they can be checked. But do they ever check fake degrees? Because I doubt everyone with a fake bachelor's or TEFL has been deported. My intuition is nobody cares, and the papers are some formality

 

Asking for a friend?

[Pouatchee]

3 hours ago, TeacherJane said:

I was told that by law, TEFL certificates need to be accredited, so they can be checked. But do they ever check fake degrees? Because I doubt everyone with a fake bachelor's or TEFL has been deported. My intuition is nobody cares, and the papers are some formality

 

2 minutes ago, NoDisplayName said:

 

Asking for a friend?

 

as nodisplayname points out... you op seems dodgy, and if you have to ask then maybe the teaching game is exactly that for you.

 

i studied 4 years and had over 700 hours of internships to get my degree... if you plan on getting by based on the fact that you are a woman, or so you say, and that women are in high demand i really hope and pray you are found out.

 

if you are legit... good for you

[HappyExpat57]

2 minutes ago, Pouatchee said:

 

 

as nodisplayname points out... you op seems dodgy, and if you have to ask then maybe the teaching game is exactly that for you.

 

i studied 4 years and had over 700 hours of internships to get my degree... if you plan on getting by based on the fact that you are a woman, or so you say, and that women are in high demand i really hope and pray you are found out.

 

if you are legit... good for you

 

I suspect anyone legit wouldn't be asking these questions in the first place.

[NoDisplayName]

1 hour ago, recom273 said:

Things are a little different for older teachers who may find it difficult to provide papers other than a dog-eared photocopy of their degree certificate, but it think these guys are gradually fading away. Fresh graduates should be able to provide the correct papers.

 

Times are changing.  Universities now have IT departments, and the old microfiche records have been digitized.

 

I was able to have my precambrian degree certified via an online clearinghouse, required for a position in China.  In this instance, precambrian means before personal computers existed.

[recom273]

58 minutes ago, NoDisplayName said:

 

Times are changing.  Universities now have IT departments, and the old microfiche records have been digitized.

 

I was able to have my precambrian degree certified via an online clearinghouse, required for a position in China.  In this instance, precambrian means before personal computers existed.

 

Yes, for sure - agreed .. I know two people who still use old photocopied certificates (one from SA, one from UK), they say that their universities don't exist any longer, they have become part of other universities or other excuses and immigration and their employer, a university still believe them (I think working in a Thai uni is has different rules to a Thai school, right?) The OP is asking if certificates are checked, and the answer is generally no - you obviously wanted the job in China and wanted to supply all the necessary paperwork to get the job, so you went the extra to get the job, but a lot of schools still don't ask too many questions, they just want the teachers. Anyway, If you take a look at the OP posting history they admit they don't have a degree in another post, so the question should be "will I get caught as a non-degree teacher on the blag"

Edited January 28 by recom273

[Chris Daley]

The tefl is toilet paper.  Degrees are checked.

[youreavinalaff]

1 hour ago, Pouatchee said:

 

this is the practice in south korea... not thailand

You clearly don't know the TCT rules.

[cdemundo]

3 hours ago, recom273 said:

There is no TEFL governing body, so accredited TEFL courses are a bit of a misnomer, some are accredited by some schools or organizations. If you look closely, you often find that these organizations are connected to the school that's offering the certification. So, no they dont check the accreditation - however, as mentioned, you dont need a TEFL certificate to teach - teachers who worked at my agency were asked to provide TEFL certificates by the labour office, most just did a $20 course online, smashed out in a day to keep everyone sweet. It doesnt stop people from studying a well respected TEFL course, but even then just because you pay good money, doesnt mean its a good course.

 

Degrees - Not really checked, because imho, who from Thailand is going to make a call to a university to check. I was told by a school manager, that they could tell who had a fake degree by touching the quality of the paper, they would know and wouldn't care, at that time, they just needed to see a degree. I think that in this day and age of data protection and privacy the person who picks up the phone won't be able to confirm or deny. However, it's not as simple as that, you will need a teachers license, to receive a waiver, I think you must provide sealed university transcripts. Anyone can provide a fake degree certificate, you can make them yourself, but to provide authentic looking transcripts is impossible. No one is going to check you paperwork, but if you cant provide the right papers, then immigration isn't going to grant you an extension of stay, therefore there is no need to check degrees, the system is self policing. Things are a little different for older teachers who may find it difficult to provide papers other than a dog-eared photocopy of their degree certificate, but it think these guys are gradually fading away. Fresh graduates should be able to provide the correct papers.

 

 

 

Degrees are required in the process of getting a work permit as of 2023 (not starting 2023 just current status).

 

That being said I know a teacher who is teaching for an agency and going to Thai public schools without a degree.

I am told that the Thai monitoring agency gives a heads up to the school or employment agency as to when a check will be made and non-degreed teachers are sent home that day. But that is totally scuttlebutt that I can't verify.

 

To get a work permit degrees need to be certified by Thai Embassy or Consulate in your home country, notarized by your university, certified by State or Province and certified by your national government agency (in USA it's the State department).

The mileage I had to send my degree back and forth was equal to one and a half times around the world after getting all these certifications.

The Thai Embassy requires the other certifications so they really just rubber stamp it. Just as an additional hoop to jump through, The Royal Thai Consulate in Los Angeles requires payment in a money order in US dollars to be included in the mailing with the degree to be certified. Not easy to get a USD money order in Bangkok.

 

Some countries provide degree certification by their embassy in Thailand but there are those that do not, namely the USA.

When your home country embassy certifies the degree it may be different requirement, I don't know.

 

Edited January 28 by cdemundo

[Adumbration]

5 hours ago, it is what it is said:

i'm not a teacher, but surely if you're not qualified and experienced you have no place being in a classroom. would you go to an unqualified doctor? dentist? pay for legal advice from an unqualified lawyer? etc...

 

i would be extremely unhappy, to put it mildly, if my children were being taught by some random bloke who rocked up at a school and was given responsibility for educating and safeguarding my children

 

Depends on the individual I would think.

 

Lots of qualified Teachers working here that are screaming alcoholics, drug addicts and kiddie fiddlers.

[youreavinalaff]

22 minutes ago, cdemundo said:

 

Degrees are required in the process of getting a work permit as of 2023 (not starting 2023 just current status).

 

That being said I know a teacher who is teaching for an agency and going to Thai public schools without a degree.

I am told that the Thai monitoring agency gives a heads up to the school or employment agency as to when a check will be made and non-degreed teachers are sent home that day. But that is totally scuttlebutt that I can't verify.

 

To get a work permit degrees need to be certified by Thai Embassy or Consulate in your home country, notarized by your university, certified by State or Province and certified by your national government agency (in USA it's the State department).

The mileage I had to send my degree back and forth was equal to one and a half times around the world after getting all these certifications.

The Thai Embassy requires the other certifications so they really just rubber stamp it. Just as an additional hoop to jump through, The Royal Thai Consulate in Los Angeles requires payment in a money order in US dollars to be included in the mailing with the degree to be certified. Not easy to get a USD money order in Bangkok.

 

Some countries provide degree certification by their embassy in Thailand but there are those that do not, namely the USA.

When your home country embassy certifies the degree it may be different requirement, I don't know.

 

Strangely, I think you'll find that run around is limited to degrees from USA. 

 

I had my British degree accepted by having an original transcript sent directly, in a sealed envelope, to TCT. I know others who have also.

 

TCT:Teachers Council of Thailand. It is they that do the checking and accepting. Those that are suggesting it's the school that check are about 25 years out of date.

 

When degrees have been accepted, TCT will issue a teaching licence or 2 year waiver. Without this, a work permit won't be issued. Those without a degree will very likely be working illegally.

 

Universities and language centres are different as they are not governed by OBEC. Teachers at such places do not need TCT approval to teach 

[cdemundo]

6 minutes ago, youreavinalaff said:

Strangely, I think you'll find that run around is limited to degrees from USA. 

 

I had my British degree accepted by having an original transcript sent directly, in a sealed envelope, to TCT. I know others who have also.

 

TCT:Teachers Council of Thailand. It is they that do the checking and accepting. Those that are suggesting it's the school that check are about 25 years out of date.

 

When degrees have been accepted, TCT will issue a teaching licence or 2 year waiver. Without this, a work permit won't be issued. Those without a degree will very likely be working illegally.

 

Universities and language centres are different as they are not governed by OBEC. Teachers at such places do not need TCT approval to teach 

"Strangely, I think you'll find that run around is limited to degrees from USA. "

 

It was a bit frustrating as I was aware as others have stated that methods of electronic checking exist, but no one was asking for my input on the topic.

 

I guess fake degrees are a real problem.

From current Bangkok Craigslist/jobs/education :

"Teachers wanting or needing degrees

If you need these for any reason contact me"

 

So apparently fakes are still for sale.

 

[youreavinalaff]

11 minutes ago, cdemundo said:

"Strangely, I think you'll find that run around is limited to degrees from USA. "

 

It was a bit frustrating as I was aware as others have stated that methods of electronic checking exist, but no one was asking for my input on the topic.

 

I guess fake degrees are a real problem.

From current Bangkok Craigslist/jobs/education :

"Teachers wanting or needing degrees

If you need these for any reason contact me"

 

So apparently fakes are still for sale.

 

Sure they are.

 

Usually for teachers at Universities and language centres.

 

To get a fake degree past the watchful eyes of TCT is difficult. Not impossible, but difficult.

 

There used to be talk that they firstly used a list of world, accredited universities. I know one guy who had a legitimate degree from an accredited, well known and well respected UK university (Sheffield Hallam) rejected, as it wasn't on TCT's list.

[NanLaew]

6 hours ago, it is what it is said:

i'm not a teacher, but surely if you're not qualified and experienced you have no place being in a classroom. would you go to an unqualified doctor? dentist? pay for legal advice from an unqualified lawyer? etc...

 

i would be extremely unhappy, to put it mildly, if my children were being taught by some random bloke who rocked up at a school and was given responsibility for educating and safeguarding my children

 

This just in... some folks use teaching in Thailand as the legal workaround for being allowed to stay here long term and pursue their real interests that are unrelated to education.

[Pouatchee]

1 hour ago, youreavinalaff said:

You clearly don't know the TCT rules.

 

 have had my 5 year licence for 15 years going on 20 this year... so i must've got something right....

[youreavinalaff]

7 minutes ago, Pouatchee said:

 

 have had my 5 year licence for 15 years going on 20 this year... so i must've got something right....

Then you'll know the TCT often ask for sealed transcripts.

Edited January 28 by youreavinalaff

[Pouatchee]

18 minutes ago, youreavinalaff said:

Then you'll know the TCT often ask for sealed transcripts.

 

never asked me and never had an issue renewing