My Last Electric Bill, Ever!

[Bandersnatch]

Now solar panel prices have dropped to ฿5/Watt, solar makes a good off-grid solution.

 

I have an electric pole 10m from my house, but I have chosen to give my meter back to PEA.

 

I have solar and home batteries and I use my EV which has bi-directional charging for extra backup power.

 

 

Edited February 9 by Bandersnatch

[ezzra]

don't count your chickens before they are hatched... talk to us in a few months as how smart was your idea to give

back the meter...

[Bandersnatch]

1 minute ago, ezzra said:

don't count your chickens before they are hatched... talk to us in a few months as how smart was your idea to give

back the meter...

 

Did you watch the video?

[KhunLA]

I don't think you can get any more off grid than this, connected or not:

 

We're unofficially 'off grid' also, as don't need PEA at all.   Only stay connected, since having only 1 inverter.   If having two 5kW inverters instead of one 8kW inverter, we'd probably give the meter back also.   We also have the EV as back up if needed, so even if inverter crapped out, we wouldn't have a issue till replaced.

 

20kWh of ESSs is more than enough for us, and yet to use 50% overnight since adding 2nd ESS, and that's with an AC on.  The EV would provide at least another 30kWh of back if ever needed.

Edited February 10 by KhunLA

[TorquayFan]

Thanks Bandersnatch - you are a pioneer for sure. I wonder about the bi-directional EV model/make and what it cost. It's impressive that you can drive your EV around and have enough charge left to help in the house - I'm assuming that you don't charge your EV outside as that would make no sense - i.e. to not use your own (previous) mains connection.

 

How will the project look when the car is much older and the batteries decline a little ? BTW I wonder if you run A/C's at night and how the car would cope with that if the house batteries are low due to bad weather.

 

My main objection to EV is that they are ideal for some situations and NOT for many others. I also believe that Govts. should not be incentivising EV's - the market should be trusted to do that job.

 

ATB

 

 

[Bandersnatch]

5 minutes ago, TorquayFan said:

Thanks Bandersnatch - you are a pioneer for sure. I wonder about the bi-directional EV model/make and what it cost. It's impressive that you can drive your EV around and have enough charge left to help in the house - I'm assuming that you don't charge your EV outside as that would make no sense - i.e. to not use your own (previous) mains connection.

 

How will the project look when the car is much older and the batteries decline a little ? BTW I wonder if you run A/C's at night and how the car would cope with that if the house batteries are low due to bad weather.

 

My main objection to EV is that they are ideal for some situations and NOT for many others. I also believe that Govts. should not be incentivising EV's - the market should be trusted to do that job.

 

ATB

 

 

 

My EV is a BYD Seal AWD Performance and cost ฿1.6m. There are cheaper EVs with Vehicle to Load (V2L) 

 

 

I have 2 EVs and an electric Motorbike all of which are charged at home from my solar system. My new EV has 580km of range. 

 

As I said in the video, that the car has the equivalent of 6 Tesla PowerWalls of backup power in addition to my home batteries. Remember I am using the EV as a backup. It’s not the main source of power. The car has 82.5kWh of battery storage (think 82.5 units from PEA)

 

The Car has an 8yr 70% warranty on the battery and as they are LFP batteries that have a very long life.

 

We run 2 aircons at night. 

 

19 minutes ago, TorquayFan said:

I also believe that Govts. should not be incentivising EV's - the market should be trusted to do that job.

 

I don’t think that the government should be helping to keep Diesel prices artificially low as pollution from Diesel trucks is adding to Thailand air pollution. 

 

 

[TorquayFan]

Thanks for the reply. I agree with you about diesel prices. 

 

The Seal is impressive but for that price, a Hybrid Camry would be my choice.

[KannikaP]

1 hour ago, Bandersnatch said:

Now solar panel prices have dropped to ฿5/Watt, solar makes a good off-grid solution.

 

I have an electric pole 10m from my house, but I have chosen to give my meter back to PEA.

 

I have solar and home batteries and I use my EV which has bi-directional charging for extra backup power.

 

 

Typical that PEA did not disconnect the live feed cables at the top end, but simply taped the bottom ends. Not very safe at all.

[KannikaP]

1 hour ago, Bandersnatch said:

 

Did you watch the video?

Yes, and so grateful you told us that the Thai dates are not the same as Western ones.

[Bandersnatch]

1 minute ago, TorquayFan said:

The Seal is impressive but for that price, a Hybrid Camry would be my choice.

 

Toyota Hybrid Camry  0-100 of 8 seconds

BYD Seal AWD Performance 0-100 3.8 seconds

 

BYD Seal comes with 6 Tesla Powerwalls of backup power and I can charge it for free for excess solar power in the middle of the day.

[Bandersnatch]

4 minutes ago, KannikaP said:

Yes, and so grateful you told us that the Thai dates are not the same as Western ones.

 

Not everybody who watches my videos lives in Thailand

[TorquayFan]

You need 0-100 km in 3.8 seconds - MMmmm

 

Sorry I don't understand what the Tesla Powerwalls are ?

[KannikaP]

1 hour ago, Bandersnatch said:

Now solar panel prices have dropped to ฿5/Watt, solar makes a good off-grid solution.

Please explain to me. I use about 20kW hours per day @ Bht 5 per unit = Bht 3000 per month.

How can this solar supply be more economical please?

[Crossy]

13 minutes ago, KannikaP said:

Please explain to me. I use about 20kW hours per day @ Bht 5 per unit = Bht 3000 per month.

How can this solar supply be more economical please?

 

Once the system has made enough energy to cover its cost of installation (5 years or so, but highly variable) the energy is FREE, zero Baht per kWh.

 

EDIT We are not off grid, our system isn't big enough, yet.

We use about 35-40kwh per day, our PEA bill is around 1,000 Baht monthly. Last year our 10kWp solar saved us 60,599 Baht (using PEA's calculator). 

 

Cost to date about 240kBaht, looking at payback time of 4 years or so.

[scorecard]

1 hour ago, TorquayFan said:

Thanks Bandersnatch - you are a pioneer for sure. I wonder about the bi-directional EV model/make and what it cost. It's impressive that you can drive your EV around and have enough charge left to help in the house - I'm assuming that you don't charge your EV outside as that would make no sense - i.e. to not use your own (previous) mains connection.

 

How will the project look when the car is much older and the batteries decline a little ? BTW I wonder if you run A/C's at night and how the car would cope with that if the house batteries are low due to bad weather.

 

My main objection to EV is that they are ideal for some situations and NOT for many others. I also believe that Govts. should not be incentivising EV's - the market should be trusted to do that job.

 

ATB

 

 

Several impressive situations for sure.

 

A farang acquaintance told me recently he purchases a solar 'set up' to create enough charge to run one a/c all night and it worked well, so he bought a second unit.

 

Any comments on this much appreciated.

 

Why, because our family is big, my Thai son has 3 very young kids and we run 3 a/c's most of the night, so our bill is pretty high, if son can establish more positive comments re solar just for a/c's he intends to buy.

 

(By the way, I'm not looking for snide / judgemental comments on a/c's for kids.) 

[CharlieH]

I wish the OP good luck, I am sure he did his research and there is a growing community of supporters to assist in such projects and its development. Personally, it's all still too new and the capital expenditure for some can be the non starter.If you have the funds are willing to "go for it" I wish you well and hope it turns out just as you expected.

 

Many aspects for me are very much "too new" and not enough data.Besides which financially it would be a non starter anyway.Even if I had the funds its not something I would pursue at the low cost of electricity here against capital investment against my probable remaining lifespan. 😀

 

 

[Bandersnatch]

8 minutes ago, CharlieH said:

I wish the OP good luck, I am sure he did his research and there is a growing community of supporters to assist in such projects and its development. Personally, it's all still too new and the capital expenditure for some can be the non starter.If you have the funds are willing to "go for it" I wish you well and hope it turns out just as you expected.

 

Many aspects for me are very much "too new" and not enough data.Besides which financially it would be a non starter anyway.Even if I had the funds its not something I would pursue at the low cost of electricity here against capital investment against my probable remaining lifespan. 😀

 

 

 

I have basically been “off-grid” with solar and home batteries for 5 years now and I have posted my solar journey in this forum. 

 

With Solar you are basically paying your electric bill forward and I understand that many people are unable or unwilling to make that investment. For those that do, they are shielding themselves from price rises and power cuts.

 

Even if your pay-back was ten years then your return on your investment would be 10%, assuming electricity prices don’t rise, which is better than you would get in the bank. 

 

The reason I post is to share my experience, show what is possible and be available to answer questions. 

 

 

[KhunLA]

49 minutes ago, KannikaP said:

Please explain to me. I use about 20kW hours per day @ Bht 5 per unit = Bht 3000 per month.

How can this solar supply be more economical please?

Our solar saves uses ฿2.5K-5K a month for household electric, using 20-50kWh a day.  Another 4k a month on petrol cost, actually ฿47..8k saved the first year with the EV.

 

ROI on our solar system will be between <5 yrs to maybe 8 years, depending if we continue to drive 20k kms a year, which has been our average the past 20 years.  Can't see that changing as long as I'm alive, so closer to the 5 year mark.   Then it's all free after that.  I actually expect both, solar system ESSs/batteries and the EV to last about 20 years without any major issues, since both are LFP chemistry.

Edited February 10 by KhunLA

[KannikaP]

2 minutes ago, KhunLA said:

I actually expect both, solar system ESSs/batteries and the EV to last about 20 years without any major issues, since both are LFP chemistry.

You are very optimistic about getting 400,000 km from an EV, and for the batteries to not need replacing several times in 20 years. What's LFP please?

[Bandersnatch]

6 minutes ago, KannikaP said:

What's LFP please?

 

 

Lithium Iron Phosphate, it’s a new type of Cathode battery chemistry. It is contains no Cobalt, is far safer with a far longer cycle life than Li-ion.

 

I have LFP batteries in my home storage and my EV.

[KhunLA]

18 minutes ago, KannikaP said:

You are very optimistic about getting 400,000 km from an EV, and for the batteries to not need replacing several times in 20 years. What's LFP please?

Not really, many consider <1 million kms conservative.   As LFP life cycles estimates range from 2.5k to 10k cycles.  I always error on the negative side, to avoid any unnecessary disappointments.

 

 

The negative side of what we expect from our EV:

 

Edited February 10 by KhunLA

[Woof999]

1 hour ago, TorquayFan said:

You need 0-100 km in 3.8 seconds - MMmmm

 

Why the heck not? Faster acceleration and "good" are directly related.

 

1 hour ago, TorquayFan said:

Sorry I don't understand what the Tesla Powerwalls are ?

 

...which kind of removes much of your credentials for any criticism of the OP. Look up what they are. This comment is the equivalent of someone chiming in about EVs and then saying they don't know what a Tesla Model 3 is.

[CharlesHolzhauer]

15 minutes ago, Woof999 said:

which kind of removes much of your credentials for any criticism of the OP

Exactly, I find it both amusing and disheartening that Bandersnatch, an obvious true pioneer of solar-produced home energy here in Thailand, is consistently under attack and nit-picked from individuals who fail to undertake the necessary research.

[CharlesHolzhauer]

@Bandersnatch

To be honest, I find myself envious of your off-grid solar energy setup, as it offers independence from the conventional electrical grid. While I have the financial means to invest in such a project, unfortunately, I lack the expertise.

Considering replacing one of my cars, I'm contemplating an electric vehicle like the NETA V for our short shopping trips around town. Fueling it from solar produced energy sounds immensely attractive and sensible. However, I'm curious about the skills required for maintaining such an elaborate solar setup in comparison to a conventional electrical grid installation.

As I am getting older, I also wonder about the long-term sustainability of such a system, especially in the event that my wife might have to manage the solar installation alone. In our village, there's a skilled person proficient in rewiring houses with breaker boxes and earthing equipment, but he admits to having no knowledge of solar installations and their components.

Given my age, it's a concern that my wife or her relatives may not possess the skills needed to maintain, fix, or troubleshoot issues with the solar setup. Have you considered this aspect, and if so, do you have any plans in place for the future management of your solar installation?

 

[Bandersnatch]

28 minutes ago, CharlesHolzhauer said:

@Bandersnatch

To be honest, I find myself envious of your off-grid solar energy setup, as it offers independence from the conventional electrical grid. While I have the financial means to invest in such a project, unfortunately, I lack the expertise.

Considering replacing one of my cars, I'm contemplating an electric vehicle like the NETA V for our short shopping trips around town. Fueling it from solar produced energy sounds immensely attractive and sensible. However, I'm curious about the skills required for maintaining such an elaborate solar setup in comparison to a conventional electrical grid installation.

As I am getting older, I also wonder about the long-term sustainability of such a system, especially in the event that my wife might have to manage the solar installation alone. In our village, there's a skilled person proficient in rewiring houses with breaker boxes and earthing equipment, but he admits to having no knowledge of solar installations and their components.

Given my age, it's a concern that my wife or her relatives may not possess the skills needed to maintain, fix, or troubleshoot issues with the solar setup. Have you considered this aspect, and if so, do you have any plans in place for the future management of your solar installation?

 

There a few approaches to solar that attract people for different reasons.

There is the full on DIY approach including building up batteries with individual cells. Such an approach is definitely the cheapest but would be very difficult to support.

 

The other extreme is have a professional company source all the components and install them. They will manage the warranty process and will offer annual checks and panel cleaning. You get what you pay for.

 

I am in the middle. I purchased all the panels, inverters and batteries myself. I then employed a Thai company to install and supply all the ancillary items. They offer no warranty but can be paid to problem fix. I dealt with the manufacturers to ensure the installation was correct. 
 

In your case I would recommend a professional installation with warranty and support. DM me if you want suggestions 

[KhunLA]

57 minutes ago, CharlesHolzhauer said:

@Bandersnatch

To be honest, I find myself envious of your off-grid solar energy setup, as it offers independence from the conventional electrical grid. While I have the financial means to invest in such a project, unfortunately, I lack the expertise.

Considering replacing one of my cars, I'm contemplating an electric vehicle like the NETA V for our short shopping trips around town. Fueling it from solar produced energy sounds immensely attractive and sensible. However, I'm curious about the skills required for maintaining such an elaborate solar setup in comparison to a conventional electrical grid installation.

As I am getting older, I also wonder about the long-term sustainability of such a system, especially in the event that my wife might have to manage the solar installation alone. In our village, there's a skilled person proficient in rewiring houses with breaker boxes and earthing equipment, but he admits to having no knowledge of solar installations and their components.

Given my age, it's a concern that my wife or her relatives may not possess the skills needed to maintain, fix, or troubleshoot issues with the solar setup. Have you considered this aspect, and if so, do you have any plans in place for the future management of your solar installation

Yea ... what you said.   We went with an installer for our system, since not having the 'expertise', crew, tools or the back for helping install.   After I priced the components the installer used, it really wasn't worth the hassle of trying to sort it all out myself.

 

Many of the DIY systems people post here are less expensive, some considerably, though not sure about vendor or manufacturer warranties.   Our installer has been at it for quite some time, so he would sort those out with his supplier with more success than a walk in/online customer, one would think.

 

Most electrical components crap out early on anyway, and we're 1.5 yrs in, so all good.   Our installer is excellent on customer service (none needed except slight upgrade), and returning phone calls, when we have stupid questions.

 

Ours turned out to be the perfect size for us, providing enough on the crappiest days, with more than enough to keep the EVs (car, MC, Ebike) charged up.  

Edited February 10 by KhunLA

[Bazerino]

Good to hear you are off grid, how many years will it take to get your money back from the solar installation?

[sirineou]

4 hours ago, ezzra said:

don't count your chickens before they are hatched... talk to us in a few months as how smart was your idea to give

back the meter...

I don't think he gave the meter back, why would someone do that? II don't think it costs anything to keep the meter, Am I correct? 

That way during the rainy season where you might not produce anything you can draw from the matter and when you produce more than you consume , you can feed back .

 

 

[Liverpool Lou]

31 minutes ago, sirineou said:

I don't think he gave the meter back, why would someone do that? II don't think it costs anything to keep the meter, Am I correct? 

No.  You didn't watch the video, did you?

Edited February 10 by Liverpool Lou

[digger70]

Good luck Mate , Time will tell what the cheapest way is in years to come when it's time to Replace some costly consumable parts.