1 dead and multiple injured in shooting following Chiefs Super Bowl parade

[KhunLA]

11 hours ago, LosLobo said:

NRA: 'Only Thing That Stops A Bad Guy With A Gun Is A Good Guy With A Gun'.

Gun hugger that I am, that statement is quite accurate.  (for the record, I'm anti-NRA)

 

You are faced with a bad guy with a gun ... how would you stop he/she/it ?   Apparently all the police, laws and prison sentences aren't stopping bad people from getting firearms.

 

A total ban on firearm sales & ownership in the USA wouldn't stop criminals from having firearms.  You can't stop drug trafficking, you can't stop human trafficking, so how are you going to stop the firearms from being available to criminals.

 

Police rarely stop crime, and simply take a report after the fact.  You wake up in your house, and realize there is someone in your house with a gun ... now what ?

 

Don't know about you, but I'd be grabbing my firearm.

Edited February 15 by KhunLA

[mikebike]

8 hours ago, pacovl46 said:

Right! Like prohibiting alcohol in the US totally got rif of alcohol!

No one is asking for another prohibition. It doesn't work for alcohol, cannabis, or guns. That is well established, as you noted. 

 

But you, and many others, fail to take the next logical step - what did and does work? 

 

Surprise! When alcohol prohibition ended, laws and regulations were enacted to control the industry. 

 

Do you currently feel overly restricted in purchasing alcohol in the USA? 

 

Is there a logical reason the same solution won't work for guns? 

[bendejo]

Thoughts and prayers etc, aka the usual.

What time does the basketball game start?

 

[mikebike]

Jesus Christ. Kids shooting kids and you cannot legislate ANY SOLUTION. Freaking feeble government. In fact is there a functioning government? 

[LosLobo]

9 hours ago, KhunLA said:

Gun hugger that I am, that statement is quite accurate.  (for the record, I'm anti-NRA)

 

You are faced with a bad guy with a gun ... how would you stop he/she/it ?   Apparently all the police, laws and prison sentences aren't stopping bad people from getting firearms.

 

A total ban on firearm sales & ownership in the USA wouldn't stop criminals from having firearms.  You can't stop drug trafficking, you can't stop human trafficking, so how are you going to stop the firearms from being available to criminals.

 

Police rarely stop crime, and simply take a report after the fact.  You wake up in your house, and realize there is someone in your house with a gun ... now what ?

 

Don't know about you, but I'd be grabbing my firearm.

It is noted that you deleted most of my post and therefore its context, in your response which seemly contravenes Forum rules.

If you are suggesting that the NRA trope's accuracy is a fact you need to include evidence from a credible source with a link.

Here is a summary of the deleted factual evidence that disproves the 'fantasy' that is your opinion:
 

1.  Idealized Image vs Reality: Most gun enthusiasts don’t live up to the idealized image of a steady, righteous, and accurate shooter.

 

2.  Increased Chaos and Violence: Research indicates that the presence of guns often leads to more chaos and violence than acts of heroism.

 

3.  Right-to-Carry Laws and Violent Crime: A 2017 study by the National Bureau of Economic Research found that right-to-carry laws increase violent crime rather than decrease it.

4.  Correlation between Gun Ownership and Homicide Rates: Higher rates of gun ownership are associated with higher homicide rates.

5.  Road Rage and Gun Possession: Gun possession is linked to increased instances of road rage.

6.  Rare Instances of Successful Intervention: While there have been instances where an armed civilian has successfully intervened in a shooting, these cases are rare.

 

7.  Risk of Guns Being Used Against Owners: People who carry guns often have their own guns used against them.

 

8.  Risk to Civilians with Guns: A civilian with a gun is more likely to be killed than to kill an attacker.
 

How the ‘good guy with a gun’ became a deadly American fantasy | PBS NewsHour

 

 

Edited February 16 by LosLobo

[stargrazer9889]

It appears that neither of the shooters were hit by their bullets.

Charge each of these people with murder. Of course it happened in the USA,

so will this kind of justice be served?

[bbko]

9 hours ago, KhunLA said:

Gun hugger that I am, that statement is quite accurate.  (for the record, I'm anti-NRA)

 

You are faced with a bad guy with a gun ... how would you stop he/she/it ?   Apparently all the police, laws and prison sentences aren't stopping bad people from getting firearms.

 

A total ban on firearm sales & ownership in the USA wouldn't stop criminals from having firearms.  You can't stop drug trafficking, you can't stop human trafficking, so how are you going to stop the firearms from being available to criminals.

 

Police rarely stop crime, and simply take a report after the fact.  You wake up in your house, and realize there is someone in your house with a gun ... now what ?

 

Don't know about you, but I'd be grabbing my firearm.

To the NRA's delight, the USA is past the point of no return.  It's so bad now everyday folks need to have guns cause the bad guys have guns, and bad guys will continue to break into homes and steal valuables (guns too), putting more guns on the street so more law-abiding citizens will need guns. It's a never ending cycle. 

I'm from the USA, born & raised, but I feel 100% safer walking the streets of Thailand late at night than I would in any large city in the US.

[KhunLA]

7 minutes ago, bbko said:

To the NRA's delight, the USA is past the point of no return.  It's so bad now everyday folks need to have guns cause the bad guys have guns, and bad guys will continue to break into homes and steal valuables (guns too), putting more guns on the street so more law-abiding citizens will need guns. It's a never ending cycle. 

I'm from the USA, born & raised, but I feel 100% safer walking the streets of Thailand late at night than I would in any large city in the US.

I carried a gun for 25 yrs there, and never needed,  Lived in crap areas, and ventured into even crappier areas.   Stop watching MSM.

 

Did you ever feel the need to carry a gun, while in the USA ?   Violent crime is actually down, almost every year, with a few exceptions.   Same with the murder rate.

[KhunLA]

1 hour ago, LosLobo said:

It is noted that you deleted most of my post and therefore its context, in your response which seemly contravenes Forum rules.

If you are suggesting that the NRA trope's accuracy is a fact you need to include evidence from a credible source with a link.

Here is a summary of the deleted factual evidence that disproves the 'fantasy' that is your opinion:
 

1.  Idealized Image vs Reality: Most gun enthusiasts don’t live up to the idealized image of a steady, righteous, and accurate shooter.

 

2.  Increased Chaos and Violence: Research indicates that the presence of guns often leads to more chaos and violence than acts of heroism.

 

3.  Right-to-Carry Laws and Violent Crime: A 2017 study by the National Bureau of Economic Research found that right-to-carry laws increase violent crime rather than decrease it.

4.  Correlation between Gun Ownership and Homicide Rates: Higher rates of gun ownership are associated with higher homicide rates.

5.  Road Rage and Gun Possession: Gun possession is linked to increased instances of road rage.

6.  Rare Instances of Successful Intervention: While there have been instances where an armed civilian has successfully intervened in a shooting, these cases are rare.

 

7.  Risk of Guns Being Used Against Owners: People who carry guns often have their own guns used against them.

 

8.  Risk to Civilians with Guns: A civilian with a gun is more likely to be killed than to kill an attacker.
 

How the ‘good guy with a gun’ became a deadly American fantasy | PBS NewsHour

I only wanted to address the one part of you post, so didn't contravene anything, as kept my reply to that aspect of your post.

 

Didn't change the meaning of your post, and replied direct to that part of your post, with my thoughts & opinion.

 

As I stated, I'm not a fan of the NRA, AND to add to that, don't support and would never support the NRA.   I think they are counter productive to firearm deaths in the USA.  Since wanting to keep the few loopholes open, in the few states that have them.

 

Simply addressed the statement you implied the NRA/gun huggers would ramble on about.  Which I agree with.  You ant to stop someone with a gun, you better have a gun.

 

Notice you also didn't answer my question ... You wake up in your house, and realize there is someone in your house with a gun ... now what ?

 

All those links you post are generalization, I think, as didn't bother opening any of them, considering the title off.  MSM BS ... all gun owners are idiots, and having one would result in nothing but negative outcome if they needed a gun.   Pure silliness.

 

They all lack stats (not reported) of crimes stopped by legal gun owners.  And cherry pick other stats.  I only deal with me and my experience, and ability to defend myself with a firearm.   

[jvs]

11 minutes ago, KhunLA said:

Notice you also didn't answer my question ... You wake up in your house, and realize there is someone in your house with a gun ... now what ?

How do you know he has a gun?If you see him with the gun it will be too late for you to act.

He is not there to kill you,he just wants your tv and money.

 

[KhunLA]

5 minutes ago, jvs said:

How do you know he has a gun?If you see him with the gun it will be too late for you to act.

He is not there to kill you,he just wants your tv and money.

I don't know about you, but if I hear noises in my house, I would go and investigate to see what it was.  Always lived in 2 story house, so looking down the steps into lower floor always possible, and if seeing someone, yea, I'd want to have a gun, whether seeing him with one or not.

 

If not a 'explainable noise', then I'd be investigating with gun in hand.  Since I rarely lock my doors and windows anyway   Always had a dog also, and since most burglaries are probably from someone who knows you, you'd be an idiot to come to my house.   No pros coming to my house to steal all that high end art I don't have hanging on the walls.

 

No TV at my house either, though always a nice sound system.  Although you'd need to make a couple trips to carry the speakers out 

 

Going to have to come into the bedroom for any money, and not a good idea, as usually a gun in the bed with me, since having so many guns in the house, always keep the one, unlocked and under the pillow.  Not paranoid, just prepared.

 

All silly 'what ifs' as only a true idiot tries to rob a house with a dog, and a gun owner, when they are there.

[Hanaguma]

47 minutes ago, jvs said:

How do you know he has a gun?If you see him with the gun it will be too late for you to act.

He is not there to kill you,he just wants your tv and money.

 

Well, he can't have them.  And he risks his life if he wants to try and get them. Not my problem.

 

If having no guns is the best option, I challenge all the gun grabbers to put signs in their front yards proclaiming "THIS House Is A Gun Free Zone".  What better form of protection could there be?

[EastBayRay]

I’m hearin it was a gang dispute kinda thing

 

like the bloods and crips 

 

senseless

[LosLobo]

14 minutes ago, KhunLA said:

I only wanted to address the one part of you post, so didn't contravene anything, as kept my reply to that aspect of your post.

 

Didn't change the meaning of your post, and replied direct to that part of your post, with my thoughts & opinion.

 

As I stated, I'm not a fan of the NRA, AND to add to that, don't support and would never support the NRA.   I think they are counter productive to firearm deaths in the USA.  Since wanting to keep the few loopholes open, in the few states that have them.

 

Simply addressed the statement you implied the NRA/gun huggers would ramble on about.  Which I agree with.  You ant to stop someone with a gun, you better have a gun.

 

Notice you also didn't answer my question ... You wake up in your house, and realize there is someone in your house with a gun ... now what ?

 

All those links you post are generalization, I think, as didn't bother opening any of them, considering the title off.  MSM BS ... all gun owners are idiots, and having one would result in nothing but negative outcome if they needed a gun.   Pure silliness.

 

They all lack stats (not reported) of crimes stopped by legal gun owners.  And cherry pick other stats.  I only deal with me and my experience, and ability to defend myself with a firearm.   

It is again noted that you are unable to support any of your opinions with facts.
 

1.  The parts of my original post that were omitted were relevant. Their absence suggests that you were unable to address anything beyond your NRA trope.

 

One rule states that we need to maintain the context of the original post in our responses, and another allows us to truncate the original post to the part we are addressing.

Following one rule doesn’t mean we can disregard the others. Compliance isn’t an ‘either-or’ situation.

 

Just like in logic, where a conjunction is true only if all its components are true, compliance with forum rules requires us to adhere to all the rules, not just select ones.

2.   Your support of the NRA is not the issue at hand; rather, it’s your support of their trope that is being discussed.

 3.  Your assortment of logical fallacies from your first post:
 

a)  False Dilemma (or False Dichotomy): This fallacy occurs when an argument presents only two options or sides when there may be more. For example, the statement “Only Thing That Stops A Bad Guy With A Gun Is A Good Guy With A Gun” presents only two possibilities when there may be other solutions to stop a bad guy with a gun, such as a gun ban, better law enforcement, mental health support, etc.

b)  Slippery Slope: This fallacy occurs when an argument suggests that one step will inevitably lead to more, negative steps. For example, the argument that a total ban on firearm sales & ownership in the USA wouldn’t stop criminals from having firearms because you can’t stop drug trafficking or human trafficking is a slippery slope. It assumes that because we can’t completely stop some crimes, we won’t be able to stop any crimes.

c)  Hasty Generalization: This fallacy occurs when an argument makes a generalization based on insufficient evidence. For example, the statement “Police rarely stop crime, and simply take a report after the fact” is a hasty generalization. It may not be true for all police departments or all types of crime.

d)  Appeal to Fear: This fallacy occurs when fear is used to influence the audience’s opinion. The scenario of waking up and realizing there is someone in your house with a gun is an example of this, as it uses fear to argue for owning a firearm.

4. I agree that not all gun owners are ‘idiots’, as you put it, and no one except you has stated that.

Many are responsible and law-abiding citizens. However, the issues I have highlighted are significant and worth considering in any discussion about gun control.

It’s not about labeling all gun owners but about understanding the potential risks and consequences of widespread gun ownership.

5.  You complain about my links and sources, yet your ability to support your opinions with similar evidence is noticeably absent.

[KhunLA]

26 minutes ago, LosLobo said:

It is again noted that you are unable to support any of your opinions with facts.
 

1.  The parts of my original post that were omitted were relevant. Their absence suggests that you were unable to address anything beyond your NRA trope.

 

One rule states that we need to maintain the context of the original post in our responses, and another allows us to truncate the original post to the part we are addressing.

Following one rule doesn’t mean we can disregard the others. Compliance isn’t an ‘either-or’ situation.

 

Just like in logic, where a conjunction is true only if all its components are true, compliance with forum rules requires us to adhere to all the rules, not just select ones.

2.   Your support of the NRA is not the issue at hand; rather, it’s your support of their trope that is being discussed.

 3.  Your assortment of logical fallacies from your first post:
 

a)  False Dilemma (or False Dichotomy): This fallacy occurs when an argument presents only two options or sides when there may be more. For example, the statement “Only Thing That Stops A Bad Guy With A Gun Is A Good Guy With A Gun” presents only two possibilities when there may be other solutions to stop a bad guy with a gun, such as a gun ban, better law enforcement, mental health support, etc.

b)  Slippery Slope: This fallacy occurs when an argument suggests that one step will inevitably lead to more, negative steps. For example, the argument that a total ban on firearm sales & ownership in the USA wouldn’t stop criminals from having firearms because you can’t stop drug trafficking or human trafficking is a slippery slope. It assumes that because we can’t completely stop some crimes, we won’t be able to stop any crimes.

c)  Hasty Generalization: This fallacy occurs when an argument makes a generalization based on insufficient evidence. For example, the statement “Police rarely stop crime, and simply take a report after the fact” is a hasty generalization. It may not be true for all police departments or all types of crime.

d)  Appeal to Fear: This fallacy occurs when fear is used to influence the audience’s opinion. The scenario of waking up and realizing there is someone in your house with a gun is an example of this, as it uses fear to argue for owning a firearm.

4. I agree that not all gun owners are ‘idiots’, as you put it, and no one except you has stated that.

Many are responsible and law-abiding citizens. However, the issues I have highlighted are significant and worth considering in any discussion about gun control.

It’s not about labeling all gun owners but about understanding the potential risks and consequences of widespread gun ownership.

5.  You complain about my links and sources, yet your ability to support your opinions with similar evidence is noticeably absent.

It's not their trope, it's every gun owner's trope, that owns a firearm for self defense.   Seriously, if faced with a bad man with a gun ...

 

Your options are:

... call the police 

... ask him/her/it to wait, as you fumble for your Swiss knife

... hide behind your wife

... run and hope to out run the bullet

... ask him to sign a petition to ban guns

... pray for divine intervention

... or cap the MF'er ... hmm, which one would actually give you the best chance of survival ?

Edited February 16 by KhunLA

[LosLobo]

13 minutes ago, KhunLA said:

It's not their trope, it's every gun owner's trope.   Seriously, if face with a bad man with a gun ...

 

Your options are:

... call the police 

... ask him/her/it to wait, as you fumble for your Swiss knife

... hide behind your wife

... run and hope to out run the bullet

... ask him to sign a petition to ban guns

... pray for divine intervention

... or cap the MF'er ... hmm, which one would actually give you the best chance of survival ?

If you don't have any evidence with links to credible sources to support your opinions, I am done.

Unless of course you want to again discuss 'Unlike guns in modern society, automobiles that can cause death and injury are existential for modern life'? 🙂

 

Edited February 16 by LosLobo

[KhunLA]

22 minutes ago, LosLobo said:

If you don't have any evidence with links to credible sources to support your opinions, I am done.

Unless of course you want to again discuss 'Unlike guns in modern society, automobiles that can cause death and injury are existential for modern life'? 🙂

 

Don't know what opinion of mine that I need to support, it's my opinion.

 

Other parts of your post, I have no interests in, as don't relate to me ... at all.  I guess we're done.

 

Have a nice day.

 

Note: you still haven't answered my question.   Faced with a bad man with a gun ... you would ?

 

On the street ... myself ... either comply or shoot, depending on the threat.

 

In the house ... shoot and eliminate the threat.  No conversation necessary.

Edited February 16 by KhunLA

[it is what it is]

 

i think i read that nine of the injured were under 15 years old, however crazy we find things here, what is going on in america beats it hands down for sheer stupidity and lack of respect for human life

 

american get your act together.

[Eric Loh]

Mass shooting can be reduced. Just vote Dems into Congress and the White House. As Biden said after the Uvakde mass shotting "Why do we keep letting this happen. It's time to turn this pain into action". 

[Eric Loh]

Mass shooting can be reduced. Just vote Dems into Congress and the White House. As Biden said after the Uvakde mass shotting "Why do we keep letting this happen. It's time to turn this pain into action". 

[bbko]

5 hours ago, KhunLA said:

I carried a gun for 25 yrs there, and never needed,  Lived in crap areas, and ventured into even crappier areas.   Stop watching MSM.

 

Did you ever feel the need to carry a gun, while in the USA ?   Violent crime is actually down, almost every year, with a few exceptions.   Same with the murder rate.

So I went to the website you provided and searched "Number of active shooter incidents in the United States from 2000 to 2022"

Do you want to take a guess which way that graph took a sharp turn?

[KhunLA]

30 minutes ago, bbko said:

So I went to the website you provided and searched "Number of active shooter incidents in the United States from 2000 to 2022"

Do you want to take a guess which way that graph took a sharp turn?

I did state ... "with few exceptions"

 

First link that popped up, so that's about as much as I care.   And one year, 2023, maybe with an upswing, is it really going to change that much.   And wonder if it has anything to do with the extra million or so unvetted immigrants, aside from the other million or so that did get caught, but may not show for their court date.

 

Who knows, who cares, apparently only non Yanks on AN ... 

 

As the graph shows, violent crime has dropped considerably over the year, but you'd never hear that reported on MSM  ... go figure 

Edited February 16 by KhunLA

[KhunLA]

1 hour ago, jvs said:

How many guns do you have here in Thailand?

We have not locked any doors here since the new house was build and that is 15 years ago.

Always have a few good dogs and no one will be able to get into the house without us knowing about it.

Will any one ever try to enter the house or yard?I doubt it very much.

Have to take the 5th on that one, although it is rumored, 2, a flintlock, pretty cool, and revolver (that shot a rifle round) may have passed through my hands while living in Udon Thani, and I may have given them away, or buried the one in the yard, after kicking the 1st wife out.  Damn rumors. 

 

Have 'access' to 1 legal one here/PKK, though advised if used, hand back to legal owner, and she'll take responsibility for capping any idiots, that were dump enough to come over the wall.   When at Udon Thani, landlord was Border Patrol and big wig at shooting range, assisting with acquiring legal firearm.  Damn expensive.   

 

I had 16 in the USA, and not 1 cost that freakin' much.  I did sell firearms, but the mark up is crap, or used to be.   Prices now have skyrocket, along with sales, with every 'false' news of restrictions.   Best marketing you can have.  Fear of banning,  Every school shooting, sales sky rocket.  Buy while you can ...

 

And NO, don't lock the doors & windows all the time, more unlocked than locked.  If the CCTV & wall doesn't stop them, no sense in having them break a window or door to enter.   Come on in, especially if not here.   Everything is replaceable.   Dog & myself are lite sleepers.

Edited February 16 by KhunLA

[mikebike]

8 hours ago, KhunLA said:

I carried a gun for 25 yrs there, and never needed,  Lived in crap areas, and ventured into even crappier areas.   Stop watching MSM.

 

Did you ever feel the need to carry a gun, while in the USA ?   Violent crime is actually down, almost every year, with a few exceptions.   Same with the murder rate.

Violent crime rate is a nice deflection. Care to post death by firearms rate? 

[mikebike]

6 hours ago, KhunLA said:

All silly 'what ifs' as only a true idiot tries to rob a house with a dog, and a gun owner, when they are there.

And yet "idiots" do idiotic things. And when that happens people lose their lives over a TV. And the people losing their lives aren't always the perpetrators, just as often it is innocent bystanders and children.

Edited February 16 by mikebike

[mikebike]

6 hours ago, Hanaguma said:

 having no guns is the best option, I challenge all the gun grabbers to put signs in their front yards proclaiming "THIS House Is A Gun Free Zone".  What better form of protection could there be?

How to say I'm a yank terrified of my own country without saying I'm a yank terrified of my own country 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

[mikebike]

1 hour ago, uttradit said:

Where do you live?

I live in a village filled with cannabis smokers, yaba and kratom users. 11 yrs. Also lived in Phuket for 7 yrs. Never locked anything. 🤷‍♂️

[KhunLA]

2 hours ago, mikebike said:

And yet "idiots" do idiotic things. And when that happens people lose their lives over a TV. And the people losing their lives aren't always the perpetrators, just as often it is innocent bystanders and children.

 

And that's why legal people need firearms and the training to use them.

 

2 hours ago, mikebike said:

Violent crime rate is a nice deflection. Care to post death by firearms rate? 

 

Probably the same as the violent crime graph, with few exceptions, and dropped considerably over past decades.   Would think also, it increased recently.   That's what happens when you raise taxes in the big cities, and businesses leave because of it.

 

Raise taxes, they leave, now less taxes, so raise again, more leave .... rinse & repeat.   Add the high drug use, turf wars, high drop out rate,  broken , fatherless families, no discipline, bankrupt city budgets, corruption, defunding of police, and you got a living hell.  

[mr336]

On 2/15/2024 at 4:44 PM, charleskerins said:

The expression that comes to my mind  "What you talking about Willis" ?       

Maybe you've heard of this one. "over your head"🤣.

[KhunLA]

On 2/16/2024 at 10:50 AM, LosLobo said:

It is noted that you deleted most of my post and therefore its context, in your response which seemly contravenes Forum rules.

If you are suggesting that the NRA trope's accuracy is a fact you need to include evidence from a credible source with a link.

Here is a summary of the deleted factual evidence that disproves the 'fantasy' that is your opinion:
 

1.  Idealized Image vs Reality: Most gun enthusiasts don’t live up to the idealized image of a steady, righteous, and accurate shooter.

 

2.  Increased Chaos and Violence: Research indicates that the presence of guns often leads to more chaos and violence than acts of heroism.

 

3.  Right-to-Carry Laws and Violent Crime: A 2017 study by the National Bureau of Economic Research found that right-to-carry laws increase violent crime rather than decrease it.

4.  Correlation between Gun Ownership and Homicide Rates: Higher rates of gun ownership are associated with higher homicide rates.

5.  Road Rage and Gun Possession: Gun possession is linked to increased instances of road rage.

6.  Rare Instances of Successful Intervention: While there have been instances where an armed civilian has successfully intervened in a shooting, these cases are rare.

 

7.  Risk of Guns Being Used Against Owners: People who carry guns often have their own guns used against them.

 

8.  Risk to Civilians with Guns: A civilian with a gun is more likely to be killed than to kill an attacker.
 

How the ‘good guy with a gun’ became a deadly American fantasy | PBS NewsHour

 

 

You call PoPo, and wait for them to maybe arrive ...

Me ... yea, something like that, though think I'd wait till they actually entered, then legal to shoot...