Judge orders Trump and companies to pay nearly $355 million in civil fraud trial

[johng]

4 hours ago, Danderman123 said:

Trump and the Republicans are denying aid to Ukraine right now

As well they should  use the money to fix Americas problems not Ukraine's  stop meddling in other countries affairs bring back the troops from 800 bases around the world and protect your own borders not some one else's.  who designated you as the policeman of the world ?

[Danderman123]

1 hour ago, johng said:

As well they should  use the money to fix Americas problems not Ukraine's  stop meddling in other countries affairs bring back the troops from 800 bases around the world and protect your own borders not some one else's.  who designated you as the policeman of the world ?

Is that part of your desire for a multipolar world?

[heybruce]

8 hours ago, G_Money said:

That last batch of Kool-aid must of been extra potent.

 

5 hours ago, Roo Island said:

He was spot on.

Seriously?  That's your idea of a meaningful response?

 

Why not just post "Nuh uh!"?

[Danderman123]

Judge denies Trump's request to delay enforcement of $355M fraud case penalties

 

Just a few more weeks before "billionaire" Trump has to either pay or start losing his assets.

[jerrymahoney]

USA TODAY
Update 21 FEB 2024 5:09PM ET

 

But without a traditional victim in the fraud case, the appeals court has broad discretion to set a bond at perhaps a fraction of the total judgment.

 

If Trump asks to post less than the full judgment, ( Mark Zauderer, a senior partner at Dorf Nelson & Zauderer, a business law firm) said a five-judge panel will consider the request.

 

The panel will collect written arguments, giving Trump and attorney general's office each several days to file, and then typically reach a decision in about three weeks. The panel could set bond anywhere from zero to the full judgment.

 

“The court would have discretion," Zauderer said. “That would then stop enforcement while the appeal was pending.”

 

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2024/02/21/trump-new-york-fraud-case-appeal/72660908007/

[ozimoron]

2 minutes ago, jerrymahoney said:

USA TODAY
Update 21 FEB 2024 5:09PM ET

 

But without a traditional victim in the fraud case, the appeals court has broad discretion to set a bond at perhaps a fraction of the total judgment.

 

If Trump asks to post less than the full judgment, ( Mark Zauderer, a senior partner at Dorf Nelson & Zauderer, a business law firm) said a five-judge panel will consider the request.

 

The panel will collect written arguments, giving Trump and attorney general's office each several days to file, and then typically reach a decision in about three weeks. The panel could set bond anywhere from zero to the full judgment.

 

“The court would have discretion," Zauderer said. “That would then stop enforcement while the appeal was pending.”

 

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2024/02/21/trump-new-york-fraud-case-appeal/72660908007/

 

What is a "traditional victim"? Tax fraud cases are tried every day.

[Walker88]

7 minutes ago, ozimoron said:

 

What is a "traditional victim"?

Well, E Jean Carroll, for one.

 

 

[jerrymahoney]

27 minutes ago, ozimoron said:

 

What is a "traditional victim"? Tax fraud cases are tried every day.

AP’s review of nearly 150 reported cases since New York’s “repeated fraud” (63(12))statute was passed in 1956 showed that nearly every previous time a company was taken away, victims and losses were key factors. Customers had lost money or bought defective products or never received services ordered, leaving them cheated and angry.

 

What’s more, businesses were taken over almost always as a last resort to stop a fraud in progress and protect potential victims. They included a phony psychologist who sold dubious treatments, a fake lawyer who sold false claims he could get students into law school, and businessmen who marketed financial advice but instead swindled people out of their home deeds.

 

https://apnews.com/article/trump-fraud-business-law-courts-banks-lending-punishment-2ee9e509a28c24d0cda92da2f9a9b689

[ozimoron]

6 minutes ago, jerrymahoney said:

AP’s review of nearly 150 reported cases since New York’s “repeated fraud” (63(12))statute was passed in 1956 showed that nearly every previous time a company was taken away, victims and losses were key factors. Customers had lost money or bought defective products or never received services ordered, leaving them cheated and angry.

 

What’s more, businesses were taken over almost always as a last resort to stop a fraud in progress and protect potential victims. They included a phony psychologist who sold dubious treatments, a fake lawyer who sold false claims he could get students into law school, and businessmen who marketed financial advice but instead swindled people out of their home deeds.

 

https://apnews.com/article/trump-fraud-business-law-courts-banks-lending-punishment-2ee9e509a28c24d0cda92da2f9a9b689

 

This didn't happen. The fine was imposed because NY tax payers lost the amount of the fraud.

[Roo Island]

5 hours ago, heybruce said:

 

Seriously?  That's your idea of a meaningful response?

 

Why not just post "Nuh uh!"?

What is Nuh uh suppose to mean? Spot on is a widely used term.

[Roo Island]

12 minutes ago, jerrymahoney said:

AP’s review of nearly 150 reported cases since New York’s “repeated fraud” (63(12))statute was passed in 1956 showed that nearly every previous time a company was taken away, victims and losses were key factors. Customers had lost money or bought defective products or never received services ordered, leaving them cheated and angry.

 

What’s more, businesses were taken over almost always as a last resort to stop a fraud in progress and protect potential victims. They included a phony psychologist who sold dubious treatments, a fake lawyer who sold false claims he could get students into law school, and businessmen who marketed financial advice but instead swindled people out of their home deeds.

 

https://apnews.com/article/trump-fraud-business-law-courts-banks-lending-punishment-2ee9e509a28c24d0cda92da2f9a9b689

AP admits there were lots of cases they couldn't review. You're still harping on about victims. Read the articles that discuss the victims.

[jerrymahoney]

7 minutes ago, ozimoron said:

 

This didn't happen. The fine was imposed because NY tax payers lost the amount of the fraud.

"NY Taxpayers" in the aggregate are not the traditional victims in the 63(12) statute case history.

[ozimoron]

2 minutes ago, jerrymahoney said:

"NY Taxpayers" in the aggregate are not the traditional victims in the 63(12) statute case history.

 

That argument didn't hold water in court. Trump tried it on but failed.

[Roo Island]

6 minutes ago, jerrymahoney said:

"NY Taxpayers" in the aggregate are not the traditional victims in the 63(12) statute case history.

63(12) doesn't require traditional victims. We've pointed that out to you several times.

[jerrymahoney]

4 minutes ago, ozimoron said:

 

That argument didn't hold water in court. Trump tried it on but failed.

The trial court looks at it one way; an Appeals Court might look at it differently especially as to the kind of precedent the current Engoron ruling presents.

[jerrymahoney]

5 minutes ago, Roo Island said:

63(12) doesn't require traditional victims. We've pointed that out to you several times.

Trump's claim that there were no obvious victims, while not helpful for him when presented to Justice Arthur Engoron during the trial, could be a matter of concern for appellate judges.

"It is unusual, and that's one of the issues here," said white collar criminal defense attorney Paul DerOhannesian, who was not involved in the case. "We haven't really seen this type of proceeding before against a very large New York business."

 

https://www.reuters.com/legal/trumps-civil-fraud-verdict-appeal-may-hinge-no-victims-defense-2024-02-16/

Edited February 23 by jerrymahoney

[ozimoron]

1 minute ago, jerrymahoney said:

The trial court looks at it one way; an Appeals Court might look at it differently especially as to the kind of precedent the current Engoron ruling presents.

 

There is no precedent. Engoron did not kill Trump's businesses.

[jerrymahoney]

2 minutes ago, ozimoron said:

 

There is no precedent. 

Other than this:

 

An Associated Press analysis of nearly 70 years of civil cases under the (63(12)) law showed that such a penalty has only been imposed a dozen previous times, and Trump’s case stands apart in a significant way: It’s the only big business found that was threatened with a shutdown without a showing of obvious victims and major losses.

 

https://apnews.com/article/trump-fraud-business-law-courts-banks-lending-punishment-2ee9e509a28c24d0cda92da2f9a9b689

[cdnvic]

Removed a post that went against our community standards and those that inexplicably quoted it. If you want to keep your post up, make sure it isn't quoting something obviously in breech.

 

Cheers.

[Skipalongcassidy]

TDS at it again... it's a disease and they just can't help themselves... 555

[Roo Island]

7 minutes ago, Skipalongcassidy said:

TDS at it again... it's a disease and they just can't help themselves... 555

Ummm. TDS now refers to his supporters who can't seem to deal with facts. But love alternative facts. Definitely a mental problem.

[Roo Island]

36 minutes ago, jerrymahoney said:

Other than this:

 

An Associated Press analysis of nearly 70 years of civil cases under the (63(12)) law showed that such a penalty has only been imposed a dozen previous times, and Trump’s case stands apart in a significant way: It’s the only big business found that was threatened with a shutdown without a showing of obvious victims and major losses.

 

https://apnews.com/article/trump-fraud-business-law-courts-banks-lending-punishment-2ee9e509a28c24d0cda92da2f9a9b689

https://apnews.com/article/trump-letitia-james-fraud-lawsuit-judgment-verdict-63e643d0fe098cc1ac178c003f21a40d

 

Engoron’s decision last week spared Trump’s real estate empire from what the Republican front-runner deemed the “corporate death penalty,” reversing a prior ruling and opting to leave his company in business, albeit with severe restrictions including oversight from a court-appointed monitor.

 

 

[jerrymahoney]

This is from the post this morning from USA today yesterday:

 

But without a traditional victim in the fraud case, the appeals court has broad discretion to set a bond at perhaps a fraction of the total judgment.

 

And with that the cross-examination began 2 hours ago.

 

And here it ends.

 

 

 

[stevenl]

6 minutes ago, jerrymahoney said:

This is from the post this morning from USA today yesterday:

 

But without a traditional victim in the fraud case, the appeals court has broad discretion to set a bond at perhaps a fraction of the total judgment.

 

And with that the cross-examination began 2 hours ago.

 

And here it ends.

 

 

 

So we now have an appeal against the bond?

[Danderman123]

2 hours ago, jerrymahoney said:

USA TODAY
Update 21 FEB 2024 5:09PM ET

 

But without a traditional victim in the fraud case, the appeals court has broad discretion to set a bond at perhaps a fraction of the total judgment.

 

If Trump asks to post less than the full judgment, ( Mark Zauderer, a senior partner at Dorf Nelson & Zauderer, a business law firm) said a five-judge panel will consider the request.

 

The panel will collect written arguments, giving Trump and attorney general's office each several days to file, and then typically reach a decision in about three weeks. The panel could set bond anywhere from zero to the full judgment.

 

“The court would have discretion," Zauderer said. “That would then stop enforcement while the appeal was pending.”

 

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2024/02/21/trump-new-york-fraud-case-appeal/72660908007/

There are victims of the fraud. The writer is confused because the State of NY served as plaintiff.

 

Like a murder case. There is no living victim, and the State represents the deceased. A convicted murderer doesn't get off because there is no "traditional" victim.

[Yellowtail]

The only thing that ever mattered was that Trump be made to pay. 

[Roo Island]

46 minutes ago, Yellowtail said:

The only thing that ever mattered was that Trump be made to pay. 

Hopefully...finally some repercussions for all his dodgy dealings.

[Eric Loh]

53 minutes ago, Yellowtail said:

The only thing that ever mattered was that Trump be made to pay. 

He better pay up quick as the fine amount is compounded by interest at an annual rate of 9% per NY law. 

[jerrymahoney]

5 hours ago, Danderman123 said:

There are victims of the fraud. The writer is confused because the State of NY served as plaintiff.

The writer quoted Mark C. Zauderer (is) a New York trial and appellate lawyer, and a senior partner in the New York law firm of Dorf Nelson & Zauderer LLP. He frequently comments on legal issues in the print and television media and lectures on litigation-related issues.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mark_C._Zauderer

Edited February 23 by jerrymahoney

[ballpoint]

3 hours ago, Eric Loh said:

He better pay up quick as the fine amount is compounded by interest at an annual rate of 9% per NY law. 

 

Currently $87,000 per day until he either posts the bond for the appeal, or pays the fine, according to MSNBC: