Australian OAP Taxation Issues.

[Fat is a type of crazy]

Just now, KhunHeineken said:

It's almost like you are finally admitting that you got it a bit wrong regarding the bright line test and expats that haven't returned to Australia in several years.  Good job. 

 

The proposed changes makes "looking at you" a lot easier for the ATO, do they not? 

 

As I have just posted, if you haven't been back to Australia for more than 46 days in the last 3 years, and I suggest this is the majority of expat retirees, then the 183 day rule in the proposed changes comes into play every year thereafter.  This would mean ongoing non resident tax on any income derived from Australia, and it's been proven the pension is deemed an income, and is taxable. 

 

Same question to you. 

 

How many expat retirees do you think are capable of returning to Australia for 46 days to reestablish residency?  Remembering, the 45 days MAY become 90 days. 

 

If the poll I mentioned in a previous post ran, what percentage results do YOU think would be the outcome?  

 

You were clearly wrong about the bright line test in the way you wrote it.

For some the proposed new rules for the 45 day situation will be better.

Same as I said in the previous post. 

That is all I have to say thanks for reading this. 

 

[KhunHeineken]

56 minutes ago, Fat is a type of crazy said:

You were clearly wrong about the bright line test in the way you wrote it.

No.

 

How many time have I used the words, "many expats haven't been back to Australia in several years?" 

 

This means the 183 day rule, every year, is applicable to them, does it not? 

 

If not, how do YOU propose they remain a tax resident of Australia without returning for 46 days and meeting one out of a remaining three factor tests?

 

Currently, they can say they are still "domiciled" in Australia, which is a loophole I use, as do many of my Aussie friends here.  Where one is "domiciled" will become irrelevant when the proposed changes are passed.  

 

Immigration know when you were last in Australia.  Do you agree?  Yes, or no?

 

For those who have not been back to Australia in the last several years, the 183 day rule, the bright line test, is applicable to them each year after the proposed changes are passed.  Do you agree?  Yes, or no?

 

1 hour ago, Fat is a type of crazy said:

For some the proposed new rules for the 45 day situation will be better.

This needs clarification. 

 

Under the current 90 year old laws, myself, and many others, are just on a "long holiday" abroad. 

 

The proposed changes will see some have to return for 46 days, and meet the factor tests, where we didn't have to return at all because of the loopholes in the current laws.  That said, I do take your point, but will further point out Labor is considering increasing the 45 days to probably 90 days.  Obviously, 90 days is less "better" than 45 days. 

 

"Better" well, not compared to the current laws, but once again, I take your point.

 

I do see an opportunity for people to exploit this, so the government my close it in the future, but that's something for further down the track.

 

1 hour ago, Fat is a type of crazy said:

Same as I said in the previous post. 

That is all I have to say thanks for reading this. 

So, you are posting for the minority and not the majority. 

 

I am posting for the demographic that I think is the majority. 

 

Many here boast about how long they have lived here.  It's like a p*ssing contest for who has been here the most years.  It's not just Aussies, it's all nationalities.  In my opinion, it's these people who make up the big numbers for the 183 day rule bright line test.  They haven't been back for years. 

 

These people are a non resident for tax purposes now, and will be a non resident for tax purposes when the proposed changes are passed.  The 183 day rule just makes it so simple for the government to tax them, that's all. 

 

The proposed changes make compliance and enforcement so much easier for the government, that's the main purpose of them.  

[Qld4000]

Whoa..Jaysuz,,😆 I’m getting dizzy reading all this stuff.

45 days, 183 days, DTAs etc etc. 

 

Im not the sharpest knife in the drawer with Tax & Numbers but let’s assume it was YOU or ME that is actually paying an Aussie pensioner living overseas.  Look at these numbers.

 

The base Oversea Pension rate is $27,270.    If taxed at 32.5% = $8870

Nett Return about $18,400-    

( What if the Thais insist on Health Insurance) …..given the quotes for the elderly , you could lose half of that & then be living on rice & beans .

 

Then the old guy would possibly go home to Australia & then Pay NO TAX, and be eligible for Tax Free Rent Assistance , Full pension Supplement, Energy Suppliment, then Govt electricity rebate ….totalling $7700- approx

 

So, at this point the Govt or YOU is only about a $1000 in front .

 

On top of that the PBS scheme , Medicare Bulk Billing,  Subsidised Aged care home, Carers allowances, free eye wear & dental, free public transport in certain locations, free coffee at Maccas 😆, Seniors card discounts etc etc…..The PBS scheme alone can be a big $ number.

And the above benefits are only what I know of. 
 

Not a hope in hell $1000. will cover those. 

 

Then you’ve got the Housing  crises to consider , where do they stay.??
 

so maybe the Govt bean counters would prefer the old guys to stay away for good , die there kids get sent the Ashes in a DHL satchel.

 

Thats my take on it…..I haven’t factored in the DTA issues…my head is still spinning after reading thru the previous posts. 
 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited August 14 by Qld4000
Update figures

[KhunHeineken]

On 8/14/2024 at 1:00 AM, Qld4000 said:

Whoa..Jaysuz,,😆 I’m getting dizzy reading all this stuff.

45 days, 183 days, DTAs etc etc. 

 

Im not the sharpest knife in the drawer with Tax & Numbers but let’s assume it was YOU or ME that is actually paying an Aussie pensioner living overseas.  Look at these numbers.

 

The base Oversea Pension rate is $27,270.    If taxed at 32.5% = $8870

Nett Return about $18,400-    

( What if the Thais insist on Health Insurance) …..given the quotes for the elderly , you could lose half of that & then be living on rice & beans .

 

Then the old guy would possibly go home to Australia & then Pay NO TAX, and be eligible for Tax Free Rent Assistance , Full pension Supplement, Energy Suppliment, then Govt electricity rebate ….totalling $7700- approx

 

So, at this point the Govt or YOU is only about a $1000 in front .

 

On top of that the PBS scheme , Medicare Bulk Billing,  Subsidised Aged care home, Carers allowances, free eye wear & dental, free public transport in certain locations, free coffee at Maccas 😆, Seniors card discounts etc etc…..The PBS scheme alone can be a big $ number.

And the above benefits are only what I know of. 
 

Not a hope in hell $1000. will cover those. 

 

Then you’ve got the Housing  crises to consider , where do they stay.??
 

so maybe the Govt bean counters would prefer the old guys to stay away for good , die there kids get sent the Ashes in a DHL satchel.

 

Thats my take on it…..I haven’t factored in the DTA issues…my head is still spinning after reading thru the previous posts. 
 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I addressed this myth some time ago on the pension thread.

 

Basically, currently, all that pension money goes to support a foreign country's economy.  In this case, Thailand's economy.  The Australian government would like that money circulating inside the Australian economy, after all, it's their money.

 

The two main reasons for this is the Australian government/s gets a lot of it back in fees, GST, excise, car rego, licensing, insurance, stamp duties, council rates etc etc. 

 

It also creates employment, and what do employees pay, income tax, so there is a flow on effect throughout the Australian economy to have more people spending money in it.  

 

Medical is the one issue most rely on for this argument.  The myth that it's cheaper for the Australian government to have the elderly living overseas.  The Australian government isn't going to recruit and pay an extra 1000 doctors to cater for returning expats.  All that will happen is the Medicare waiting list will get longer.  They have to pay for Medicare anyway, and couldn't care less how long the list is, history has shown this. 

 

In the same way Thailand wants that pension money inside its economy, so does Australia, and if they can't have it al inside Australia, at least they can get 30% of it.