Is plastic recycling a hoax made up by Big Oil?

[flyingtlger]

I have been diligently recycling aluminum, plastic and glass however, I have been reading how it's not really working (especially plastic) and even how the general public has been duped by big firms that produce these materials to make hundreds of millions but in actuality a lot of the recycled materials are put in land fills.

What are your thoughts?

 

FYI:

 

https://www.npr.org/2020/09/11/897692090/how-big-oil-misled-the-public-into-believing-plastic-would-be-recycled

[KhunLA]

Don't really have any thoughts on it myself.   As long as the recycle center will pay for our trash, the wife with keep selling it to them.  Myself, almost a bit too much trouble for small amount they pay for it, as I would just burn it with the rest of the stuff that we burn.   Or give it to someone else that could use a few baht, and let them sell it.  So leave it to the wife to handle, as too lazy myself to care.

 

If a wee bit gets recycled, then a good thing.  If they burn it, then not different than us, but away from us, so also a good thing ... for us.   Only negative, is if it gets dumped in the sea, (plastic) and actually floats, as a hazard to some marine life.  

 

Oh well ... such is life.

[Skipalongcassidy]

1 hour ago, KhunLA said:

 Myself, almost a bit too much trouble for small amount they pay for it, as I would just burn it with the rest of the stuff that we burn.  

Oh well ... such is life.

AIR QUALITY INDEX ratings poor in Thailand... thanks for your contribution.

[KhunLA]

1 hour ago, Skipalongcassidy said:

AIR QUALITY INDEX ratings poor in Thailand... thanks for your contribution.

There's no landfills around me, so what do you think the municipality does with it.   I'm thinking either burn it, or dump in the sea.   I chose the lesser of 2 evils, and don't give them the option.   Besides, we have very little trash to burn, since not big on buying processed foods.

 

Large paper, plastic and very little glass gets sold.  Biodegradable paper/food waste goes to the compose pile, to feed the garden (fruits & veggies).  Do you have one ?  Leaves very little for us to burn.

 

We have solar (basically off grid) & EVs, so guessing we pollute less than 99% of the rest of the population in Thailand.   

 

Thanks for your contribution.

 

Hypocrisy - the practice of claiming to have moral standards or beliefs to which one's own behavior does not conform.

[sirineou]

No thought on my part also

I do the right thing and let others worry about their part. 

[patman30]

lots of BS around recycling, 
when you pull up at the gas station, you see the 3 bins for recycle or normal trash
if you sit there long enough
you will see the guy come and collect the trash from all 3 bins and put it all in the same cart.
most recycling is virtue signalling or just another way to fine the public
The big problem with recycling is the cost or energy needed to recycle can be more than producing new

[patman30]

33 minutes ago, KhunLA said:

There's no landfills around me, so what do you think the municipality does with it.   I'm thinking either burn it, or dump in the sea.   I chose the lesser of 2 evils, and don't give them the option.   Besides, we have very little trash to burn, since not big on buying processed foods.

 

Large paper, plastic and very little glass gets sold.  Biodegradable paper/food waste goes to the compose pile, to feed the garden (fruits & veggies).  Do you have one ?  Leaves very little for us to burn.

 

We have solar (basically off grid) & EVs, so guessing we pollute less than 99% of the rest of the population in Thailand.   

 

Thanks for your contribution.

 

Hypocrisy - the practice of claiming to have moral standards or beliefs to which one's own behavior does not conform.

Burning plastics is very toxic, there are other ways
we simply bag ours up and simply use a public bin whenever we are out
we also visit the FIL once a month who gets our plastic trash if we have any
we are totally off grid, and there is no trash collection where we are.
we DO NOT burn toxic plastic trash (or anything else for that matter)

"Hypocrisy - the practice of claiming to have moral standards or beliefs to which one's own behavior does not conform."

Edited February 21 by patman30

[KhunLA]

20 minutes ago, patman30 said:

Burning plastics is very toxic, there are other ways
we simply bag ours up and simply use a public bin whenever we are out
we also visit the FIL once a month who gets our plastic trash if we have any
we are totally off grid, and there is no trash collection where we are.
we DO NOT burn toxic plastic trash (or anything else for that matter)

"Hypocrisy - the practice of claiming to have moral standards or beliefs to which one's own behavior does not conform."

 

Reading comprehension ...

 

52 minutes ago, KhunLA said:

Large paper, plastic and very little glass gets sold. 

 

[patman30]

4 hours ago, KhunLA said:

Reading comprehension ...

What i read.....
 

5 hours ago, KhunLA said:

we have very little trash to burn

 

 

5 hours ago, KhunLA said:

we pollute

 

8 hours ago, KhunLA said:

I would just burn it with the rest of the stuff that we burn

 

8 hours ago, KhunLA said:

If a wee bit gets recycled, then a good thing.  If they burn it, then not different than us

and not all plastic packaging can be sold for recycling, which is the trash you burn.
anything that is biodegradable is not trash,
really not much else apart from plastic packaging that is not biodegradable

 

 

[KhunLA]

25 minutes ago, patman30 said:

What i read.....and not all plastic packaging can be sold for recycling, which is the trash you burn.   anything that is biodegradable is not trash,
really not much else apart from plastic packaging that is not biodegradable

I'll burn it, before I let the gov't dump it in the seas.  Or more likely, simple burns it themselves.  I don't believe in MMCC/GW.  I can only limit so much contribution to the local low level air pollution.  I can't eliminate it all, simply not practical.   Plastic in landfills certainly isn't a solutions, as will eventually make it to the water table.  Microplastic is already in almost everything it seems, so people don't need to drink it.   Though we only drink RO filtered water, delivered in hard plastic bottles   Then transferred to glass vessels of course.

 

Also why we live away from metro areas, so our burning isn't a major impact on the local air quality, or need to breathe in more than the atmosphere can dissipate during this time of year.

 

Is it perfect, no, but best I can think of.  Next up, smokeless burn barrel, and been putting that off too long.  Our once a month burn will at least be less smoke. 

 

If you're still driving a petrol vehicle, please don't tell me about my contribution to air pollution.

 

 

Edited February 21 by KhunLA

[patman30]

1 hour ago, KhunLA said:

If you're still driving a petrol vehicle, please don't tell me about my contribution to air pollution.

i was more referring to toxicity to those around you
if you can smell it then it is inside you
i did forget to mention
for you none of this is a worry as you drive an EV
so when you are out on the road everybody will know there is a "good person" that is better than everyone else behind the wheel
as i said there are other ways, we are right in the sticks and have no need to burn toxic plastics

[rwill]

From what I have read only about 15% of all plastic is sent to recyclers.  Then out of that about 40% is not actually recycled but either dumped or incinerated.

[HappyExpat57]

I used to be absolutely anal retentive about trying to recycle/reuse plastic even though I'd heard recycling was futile as many plastics aren't capable of being recycled.

 

I do hold hope for the future, especially for the ocean where all our food chains begin:

 

https://engineering.princeton.edu/news/2022/11/03/researchers-cook-new-way-remove-microplastics-water

 

 

[Roo Island]

This is amazing...and sad.

 

https://www.technologyreview.com/2023/10/12/1081129/plastic-recycling-climate-change-microplastics/

 

To date, humans have created around 11 billion metric tons of plastic. This amount surpasses the biomass of all animals, both terrestrial and marine, according to a 2020 study published in Nature.  

 

Currently, about 430 million tons of plastic is produced yearly, according to the United Nations Environment Programme (UNEP)—significantly more than the weight of all human beings combined. One-third of this total takes the form of single-use plastics, which humans interact with for seconds or minutes before discarding.

[wpcoe]

My sister's apartment in San Diego had two dumpsters:  one for recyclables, and one for non-recyclable trash.  I watched the garbage truck empty both of the dumpsters into the same compartment on the back of the truck.  Recycling, indeed.

[Skipalongcassidy]

23 hours ago, KhunLA said:

There's no landfills around me, so what do you think the municipality does with it.   I'm thinking either burn it, or dump in the sea.   I chose the lesser of 2 evils, and don't give them the option.   Besides, we have very little trash to burn, since not big on buying processed foods.

 

Large paper, plastic and very little glass gets sold.  Biodegradable paper/food waste goes to the compose pile, to feed the garden (fruits & veggies).  Do you have one ?  Leaves very little for us to burn.

 

We have solar (basically off grid) & EVs, so guessing we pollute less than 99% of the rest of the population in Thailand.   

 

Thanks for your contribution.

 

Hypocrisy - the practice of claiming to have moral standards or beliefs to which one's own behavior does not conform.

Just saying every little bit of burning contributes to the problem... but I see that you justify it by being super responsible with your solar energy push... it's really not an offset... Hypocrisy - the practice of claiming to have moral standards or beliefs to which one's own behavior does not conform.  Yes you definitely fit the profile.

[KhunLA]

51 minutes ago, Skipalongcassidy said:

Just saying every little bit of burning contributes to the problem... but I see that you justify it by being super responsible with your solar energy push... it's really not an offset... Hypocrisy - the practice of claiming to have moral standards or beliefs to which one's own behavior does not conform.  Yes you definitely fit the profile.

There's that reading comprehension again.  Of the 3 choices, burning, or dumping in landfill or seas, I believe burning is the lesser of 3 evils.  Especially for the amount we burn and the area we live in.

 

It will dissipate and be least harmful, since living rural, rather than collecting it all from everyone, and burning or dumping it all in one more populated area, that already has too much of their own waste.  You seem to not understand that.

 

Have a nice day.

Edited February 22 by KhunLA

[Andre0720]

23 hours ago, KhunLA said:

There's no landfills around me, so what do you think the municipality does with it.   I'm thinking either burn it, or dump in the sea.   I chose the lesser of 2 evils, and don't give them the option.   Besides, we have very little trash to burn, since not big on buying processed foods.

 

Large paper, plastic and very little glass gets sold.  Biodegradable paper/food waste goes to the compose pile, to feed the garden (fruits & veggies).  Do you have one ?  Leaves very little for us to burn.

 

We have solar (basically off grid) & EVs, so guessing we pollute less than 99% of the rest of the population in Thailand.   

 

Thanks for your contribution.

 

Hypocrisy - the practice of claiming to have moral standards or beliefs to which one's own behavior does not conform.

Inserting the word 'Hypocrisy' in this debate will not get you off the hook.

 

There are people and cultures who believe in taking care of the environment. We believe in it because we HOPE that something good will come out of recycling.

 

And if organizations are ready to pay for types of waste, there might be a reason don't you think.

And if so many governments in this world are ready to implement rules for waste disposal, there might be a reason, don't you think.

 

So much so, that in some countries, if households go beyond their allotted volume of thrash, they are billed accordingly. So that they end up following the rules, and separate recyclables from waste.

It is so in my country. And I had a friend from Belgium, even more stringent rules there.

How is garbage disposed in Europe?

On average, each European produces about 4.8 tonnes of waste annually. About 39% of it is recycled. Recycling rates vary considerably by country. Eight countries achieved recycling rates of 50% or higher, while another eight countries recycled less than 20% of their municipal waste.

Unsorted waste is to be placed in white bags. This waste is incinerated and converted into steam (energy). ...

Paper and cardboard are to be placed in yellow bags (dry, clean and folded). ...

Blue bags are used for empty plastic bottles and flasks, metal packaging and drinking cartons.

 

Might very well be that many people are influenced by the lack of civil behaviors here in this country. Garbage is thrown everywhere, plastic bags, bottles, paper....

I was helping a girl who would collect these residuals, and was able to buy milk for her baby. And of course, the father was nowhere to be found, except perhaps seen throwing away his own plastic and papers.

Everybody I see, and I mean everybody, puts waste and recyclables in the same bags. I do care about people having to feed their babies.

 

Now this word of yours, 'hypocrisy', will not suffice in preventing me from sorting all my waste. I am on the 'hope' side...

Particularly when I see organizations spending time and money in collecting plastics in the sea.

I am on their side...

[stoner]

 

its cute watching you guys bash @KhunLA

 

ok so seems he is not perfect. HOWEVER as i read it he is doing many other things in his life to offset and contribute.

 

Please now go ahead and list what you are all doing compared to him. if at that point you are living more sustainable and having less of a carbon footprint....then preach to the choir. otherwise might be advisable to zip up as it seems he is doing MUCH MUCH more than the average person. 

[save the frogs]

Not sure I would use the word "hoax".

 

We probably do not have sufficient resources to recycle effectively.

 

Perhaps future tech will make it easier to clean up the planet. 

 

Edited February 22 by save the frogs

[KhunLA]

13 minutes ago, Andre0720 said:

We believe in it because we HOPE that something good will come out of recycling.

Since TH does NOT recycle most of what they do collect now, which we do give our recyclables to the vendors that collect it (reading comprehension), there isn't much hope is there.

 

Seems to be a work in progress, where none is being made.  

 

My post and reply to it, is not about recycling, it's about non-recyclables.  And TH, not EU/UK/US or any other sh!thole.

 

Even if we lived in one of the Nanny sh!tholes the fine you for to much trash, we wouldn't even come close to that amount.  (reading comprehension....again).

 

As already pointed out, TH's recycling effort is a failure.   Recycling bins at PTT/7-11s/malls are evidence of that, where nobody seems to care.  It all mixed up.

 

I like Japan's method of no trash bins, and you take it home with you to be disposed of properly, maybe.

 

4.8 tonnes of trash per European yearly .. 

Lucky if we produce 50 kg a year, and I think I'm being generous with that number.  Not much left that doesn't go to the compose pile or get recycled.

[retarius]

I read an article once and have searched for it. It was about Hong Kong refusing UK 'recycling' materials, because the UK operators were not separating the material correctly and were including plastics hidden inside batches of cardboard. China subsequently banned British (and other?) recycling trash. 

 

But the better part of the article explained the scam that was British recycling and the legal 'rules' that abetted the fraud. I'll keep searching for it. 

[KhunLA]

10 minutes ago, stoner said:

 

its cute watching you guys bash @KhunLA

 

ok so seems he is not perfect. HOWEVER as i read it he is doing many other things in his life to offset and contribute.

 

Please now go ahead and list what you are all doing compared to him. if at that point you are living more sustainable and having less of a carbon footprint....then preach to the choir. otherwise might be advisable to zip up as it seems he is doing MUCH MUCH more than the average person. 

Does seem to be about the messenger, and not the message. I'm use to it, and thick skinned when it comes to forums.

[KhunLA]

21 minutes ago, save the frogs said:

Not sure I would use the word "hoax".

 

We probably do not have sufficient resources to recycle effectively.

 

Perhaps future tech will make it easier to clean up the planet. 

 

Sadly the tech is there, it's just not implemented enough now.   Apparently it's cheaper to burn or dump trash on land or at sea.

 

Trash to energy plants are real, work well, but more expensive.  TH only has a few,  and so successful, they turn trash away, as they can't handle the capacity, as other areas want to use their plants.   A few not in Krug Thep area, restrict use to more local trash collection, as max'd out on what the plants can handle per da.

 

As stated, a slow work in progress:

Thailand plans to build 79 waste-to-energy plants in upcoming years,

 

Seems most realize they are a good idea ... just not in their back yard.

Edited February 22 by KhunLA

[JimTripper]

I like those glass soda bottles in Thailand that have been reused. Not recycled, but washed and reused.

 

I can see the scrapes on the sides like seaglass. I think about all the prior customers who drank out of that bottle and how far it has traveled to get to me. 

Edited February 22 by JimTripper

[Purdey]

A lot of the problem arises from the lack of knowledge today. Many people think plastic is an homologous material, all the same composition etc.

People can differentiate a Masarati and BYD, even though they are both "cars". They can differentiate between Windows and Android, though they are both operating systems. 

The only type of plastic that is ready to recycle today remains polyethylene terephthalate (PET) containers, like water bottles. Waste collectors do separate PET bottles to send to be recycled. Her indoors has a large oil drum that she fills with PET bottles and gives the bottles (not sells) to an old waste picker.

These days recycling bottles into new bottles is legal. Some companies, like H&M use recycled bottles to make clothing. 

The EU is fine with recycled bottles but some countries just don't understand the differences among plastic. Kevlar is a plastic, but not many know that. It doesn't get recycled.

I attended a fashion show of clothing made from old recycled bottles recently. Couldn't tell what they were made of. 

Separate your plastic bottles and they will be recycled. 

(Sorry for the poor photos)

 

 

Edited February 22 by Purdey

[mfinasi]

On 2/21/2024 at 8:12 AM, patman30 said:

lots of BS around recycling, 
when you pull up at the gas station, you see the 3 bins for recycle or normal trash
if you sit there long enough
you will see the guy come and collect the trash from all 3 bins and put it all in the same cart.
most recycling is virtue signalling or just another way to fine the public
The big problem with recycling is the cost or energy needed to recycle can be more than producing new

 

Yeah I've seen this, I think the idea is future proof and awareness, get people separating out now because one day it will be feasible end to end in the chain, and thais are very slow to adapt (many still haven't de-masked), but agree today the net effect is as fecking useless as thoughts and prayers..

[Phulublub]

On 2/21/2024 at 4:12 AM, KhunLA said:

As long as the recycle center will pay for our trash, the wife with keep selling it to them.

And if they are paying, then you (or anyone else)  REALLY think they are then putting it in landfill? 

 

If there is no market, why do we see (in Pattaya) several locals going around diligently sifting through bins to collect plastic and cardboard?

 

And many falang appear to think they have intellectual cspacity way above that of the locals!

 

PH

Edited February 22 by Phulublub

[mfinasi]

3 minutes ago, Phulublub said:

And if they are paying, then you (or anyone else)  REALLY think they are then putting it in landfill? 

 

If there is no market, why do we see (in Pattaya) several locals going around diligently sifting through bins to collect plastic and cardboard?

 

And many falang appear to think they have intellectual cspacity way above that of the locals!

 

PH

 

Government green incentives do permit this type of pointless (in terms of real actual recycling but maybe not in facilitating an income for the poorest people) economic activity...  I was surprised how much they pay per kg of cardboard.. It happens all over the world, has been for decades...  So yes. REALLY

Edited February 22 by mfinasi

[wombat]

you could say its a partial joke...only 20% of plastic made is suitable for recycling...the source has to change not us