Thailand Servicing Russian Aircraft

[Banana7]

Why does Thailand continue to refuel Azur Air (Russian) Boeing jets in Thailand? Azur flies multiple jets daily into and out of Thailand. Is Thailand breaking the sanctions by supporting Russian jets? Brazilian aircraft servicing agents refused to refuel Russian aircraft due to sanctions. Why is Thailand exempted from USA sanctions?

[Crossy]

It's all about the money of course.

 

The US is not the boss of Thailand no matter how much they like to think they are.

 

Any country following US or, more likely UN, sanctions do so on an individual and purely voluntary basis.

 

 

[worgeordie]

The Russian jets ,commercial ,not military , are bringing Russian tourists

to Thailand , and its wants as many as possible ,and they are making

profit on the jet fuel , so Thailand sees it as a win, win ,

 

Thailand might rue it later if too many of these Russians decide to stay

here instead of returning home.

 

regards Worgeordie

[bokningar]

  On 2/24/2024 at 5:02 AM, Banana7 said:

Is Thailand breaking the sanctions by supporting Russian jets?

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No expert on the sanctions, so I don't konw.

But there is a moral aspect as well.

That never bother Thailand much if money is to be made ofcause.

But I hope if they breaking the sanctions they will get on the sanction list.

That might help.

[Pique Dard]

  On 2/24/2024 at 5:02 AM, Banana7 said:

Why is Thailand exempted from USA sanctions?

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...what right does the usa have to impose sanctions on other countries?

[Banana7]

  On 2/24/2024 at 5:48 AM, Pique Dard said:

...what right does the usa have to impose sanctions on other countries?

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They have the right, as have all countries, to impose sanctions who uses their currency and their manufactured products. Azur uses Boeing jets.

[Banana7]

  On 2/24/2024 at 5:18 AM, Crossy said:

It's all about the money of course.

 

The US is not the boss of Thailand no matter how much they like to think they are.

 

Any country following US or, more likely UN, sanctions do so on an individual and purely voluntary basis.

 

 

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If it is just money and profit maybe USA should cut-off Thailand from USA currency, services and stop all imports from Thailand. Greedy Thailand.

[retarius]

  On 2/24/2024 at 5:02 AM, Banana7 said:

Why does Thailand continue to refuel Azur Air (Russian) Boeing jets in Thailand? Azur flies multiple jets daily into and out of Thailand. Is Thailand breaking the sanctions by supporting Russian jets? Brazilian aircraft servicing agents refused to refuel Russian aircraft due to sanctions. Why is Thailand exempted from USA sanctions?

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There is no law behind US sanctions. That's why they are called illegal sanctions and American law does not apply outside the US. Thailand can re-fuel and do any sort of business it likes with Russia, but the US will start sanctioning Thailand if Thailand does not bend to US will. 

The other thing is that the US can sanction individuals and companies in Thailand meaning that no US person can do business with those individuals or companies. And if the companies are multi-national and have a nexus of business (a subsidiary) in the US, the US can fine that country in the US. 

Brazil do not follow US sanctions in respect to Russia, the company that was doing the refuelling and then refused may have a US person as a company director or may have a business in the US that can be blackmailed. 

There is no international law that supports laws made in one jurisdiction being applied globally, which is why there is controversy around them. Allies and or vassals usually go along with US sanctions....China notably told the US they would not adhere to them, so the US then punishes China for not adhering to the sanctions by targeting companies like Huawei.

From the US point of view, sanctions are great because you can hurt your enemy with any due process, m]no having to provide evidence to a court, convince a jury, there is no defence allowed. Having said that, Russia has galvanised the global south to reject US sanctions and is reducing its use of the US dollar for trade. This way, there will be a cost attached to the renegade and piratical nature of sanctions.

UN sanctions by convention apply to the world.....so many of the sanctions on NK are observed widely, although Russia seems to be breaking those sanctions now in wartime....at least that is alleged by the US. 

[ChipButty]

Thailand dont give a flying F about America and it's sanctions, 

[sirineou]

  On 2/24/2024 at 5:02 AM, Banana7 said:

Why does Thailand continue to refuel Azur Air (Russian) Boeing jets in Thailand?

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Why shouldn't it? 

 

  On 2/24/2024 at 5:02 AM, Banana7 said:

Is Thailand breaking the sanctions by supporting Russian jets?

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no because the planes that are being refueled are not covered by the sanctions  as far as I know 

  On 2/24/2024 at 5:02 AM, Banana7 said:

Brazilian aircraft servicing agents refused to refuel Russian aircraft due to sanctions.

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The plane  under question was a Russian goverment plane of Lavrov and the sanctions cover Lavrov and the companies he does business with. 

[bokningar]

  On 2/24/2024 at 5:48 AM, Pique Dard said:

...what right does the usa have to impose sanctions on other countries?

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Quite a bit more right than Russia have to attack Ukraine I would say.

[Pique Dard]

  On 2/24/2024 at 5:52 AM, Banana7 said:

They have the right, as have all countries, to impose sanctions who uses their currency and their manufactured products. Azur uses Boeing jets.

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...your answer deserves the nobel prize for economics

[Ralf001]

  On 2/24/2024 at 5:39 AM, bokningar said:

No expert on the sanctions, so I don't konw.

But there is a moral aspect as well.

That never bother Thailand much if money is to be made ofcause.

But I hope if they breaking the sanctions they will get on the sanction list.

That might help.

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lol @ moral aspect !

[JoseThailand]

  On 2/24/2024 at 7:47 AM, retarius said:

Having said that, Russia has galvanised the global south to reject US sanctions and is reducing its use of the US dollar for trade. This way, there will be a cost attached to the renegade and piratical nature of sanctions.

UN sanctions by convention apply to the world.....so many of the sanctions on NK are observed widely, although Russia seems to be breaking those sanctions now in wartime....at least that is alleged by the US. 

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In the same way, almost half the world supported Germany during WW2. There were a lot of countries devoid of colonies and other first-world privileges who were eager to turn the tables.

[JoseThailand]

During WW2, Thailand was one of Hitler's allies

[Ralf001]

  On 2/24/2024 at 4:58 PM, JoseThailand said:

Thailand was one of Hitler's allies

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Axis nation.

[VBer]

  On 2/24/2024 at 5:02 AM, Banana7 said:

Thailand breaking the sanctions by supporting Russian jets?

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Please remind me then Thailand has imposed sanctions to Russia? If they are not, why they should follow sanctions imposed by US?

[KhunLA]

Thai for Thai ... why would TH cower to silly sanctions imposed by USA.   As those sanction do nothing but benefit the USA.  USA for USA, and no different.

 

USA doesn't care about other countries' conflicts and a bit hypocritical considering their past invade & occupy policies in just the 21st Century.

 

Besides, the USA needs TH more than the reverse.   TH being one of very few in SEA, that allows USA military to use their land and sea bases.  With that in mind, TH can do what ever they want, always have, and always will.

 

One of the things I respect about TH 

[JoseThailand]

  On 2/24/2024 at 7:26 PM, KhunLA said:

Thai for Thai ... why would TH cower to silly sanctions imposed by USA.   As those sanction do nothing but benefit the USA.  USA for USA, and no different.

 

USA doesn't care about other countries' conflicts and a bit hypocritical considering their past invade & occupy policies in just the 21st Century.

 

Besides, the USA needs TH more than the reverse.   TH being one of very few in SEA, that allows USA military to use their land and sea bases.  With that in mind, TH can do what ever they want, always have, and always will.

 

One of the things I respect about TH 

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Do you respect them for being one of Hitler's allies?

[KhunLA]

  On 2/24/2024 at 7:33 PM, JoseThailand said:

 

Do you respect them for being one of Hitler's allies?

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Do you respect the USA for direct support of Hitler's military & economy in the early going of WW II ?  Your ignorance is shining, as the USA voluntarily supported Germany, where TH didn't have any option with JP.  Some folks & their businesses even supported Germany after it was illegal to do so.

 

TH did what they had to do to survive, with JP's occupation.  Didn't have much choice.  There's a time to fight or go the resistance route, and help the allies, in their fight against JP.   Even while they/Allies were bombing Bangkok & TH.  And TH was very successful in the resistance movement and assisting the Allied forces against JP.

 

You may want to do some actual research before posting next time.  Google is your friend.  Start with US senator Prescott Bush, as that should open your eyes a bit: 'His business dealings, which continued until his company's assets were seized in 1942 under the Trading with the Enemy Act'

 

USA auto makers supplied the Nazi war machine also.

[KhunLA]

  On 2/24/2024 at 5:02 AM, Banana7 said:

Why does Thailand continue to refuel Azur Air (Russian) Boeing jets in Thailand? Azur flies multiple jets daily into and out of Thailand. Is Thailand breaking the sanctions by supporting Russian jets? Brazilian aircraft servicing agents refused to refuel Russian aircraft due to sanctions. Why is Thailand exempted from USA sanctions?

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Brazil has an excellent trading partnership with RU, with increases yearly of imports & exports.  No surprise being part of BRICS. RU in the top 5 of import goods to Brazil.

 

Russians can still travel to 79 countries of the 193 member countries of the UN, without a visa.

[NanLaew]

  On 2/24/2024 at 5:39 AM, bokningar said:

But I hope if they breaking the sanctions they will get on the sanction list.

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Then what will you do, move to Cambodia?

 

Sheesh...

[NanLaew]

  On 2/24/2024 at 7:33 PM, JoseThailand said:

 

Do you respect them for being one of Hitler's allies?

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Do you respect them for being pals with Hun Sen and Min Aung Hlaing?

 

Asking for a friend.

[JoseThailand]

  On 2/24/2024 at 9:40 PM, NanLaew said:

 

Do you respect them for being pals with Hun Sen and Min Aung Hlaing?

 

Asking for a friend.

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What do you expect of a military junta?

[rexpotter]

  On 2/24/2024 at 5:35 AM, worgeordie said:

The Russian jets ,commercial ,not military , are bringing Russian tourists

to Thailand , and its wants as many as possible ,and they are making

profit on the jet fuel , so Thailand sees it as a win, win ,

 

Thailand might rue it later if too many of these Russians decide to stay

here instead of returning home.

 

regards Worgeordie

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Yes, Russians do not change to adapt to anywhere, they force their way on any society. If not, they will leave. I think Phuket already regrets it.

[Lacessit]

I would expect refueling of any aircraft, regardless of nationality, to be normal commercial practice.

However, if Thailand was maintaining and repairing Russian Boeings and Airbuses, that is a different matter w.r.to sanctions.

It's also worth remembering many of these Western-made aircraft were leased, and have been illegally expropriated by Russia.

[VBer]

 

 

 

  On 2/25/2024 at 2:35 AM, Lacessit said:

It's also worth remembering many of these Western-made aircraft were leased, and have been illegally expropriated by Russia.

 

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Majority of these airplanes are already bought from leasing companies. The latest episode:

 

https://www.reuters.com/business/aerospace-defense/russia-completes-buyouts-92-foreign-owned-planes-2023-12-22/

 

[Lacessit]

  On 2/25/2024 at 3:24 AM, VBer said:

 

 

 

Majority of these airplanes are already bought from leasing companies. The latest episode:

 

https://www.reuters.com/business/aerospace-defense/russia-completes-buyouts-92-foreign-owned-planes-2023-12-22/

 

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The devil is in the detail.

By my calculations, each aircraft was bought for $21 million. A new Boeing is between $200 and $300 million.

It's highly likely the Russians would only be buying the newest aircraft.

Even allowing for the reduced value of used aircraft, I suspect the leasing companies were given a choice - sell to us at our price, or we will expropriate the planes, and you'll get nothing.

[VBer]

  On 2/25/2024 at 5:05 AM, Lacessit said:

By my calculations, each aircraft was bought for $21 million. A new Boeing is between $200 and $300 million.

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The majority of the fleet are not wide bodies, but something like A320s. The first link from google showing this: “Second-hand A320s typically cost less than new ones, with the average price for a used A320 being around $25 million.”

 

 

Anyway, we don’t know details of the deal, but the result is obvious: the fleet is legal now.

[MangoKorat]

  On 2/24/2024 at 5:18 AM, Crossy said:

Any country following US or, more likely UN, sanctions do so on an individual and purely voluntary basis.

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Yes Crossy but they also risk the punishment those sanctions entail if they choose not to.