UN finds evidence of rape on Oct. 7 and after; Israel: They tried to downplay issue

[Jingthing]

11 minutes ago, Nick Carter icp said:

 

   He is indeed allowed to say that 

 

   Where is the ethic cleansing ?

Isrealis of Arab descent make up about 70 % of Israel's population  , 

 

   

Facts like that are wasted on the Jew haters.

Not to mention the fact that Israel includes 20 percent Arabs as citizens.

[Nick Carter icp]

31 minutes ago, Robert Paulson said:

Any statement that comes out in support of Zionism is a lie if we use history as our guide. 

 

   You guys dismiss everything as lies if you don't like what is said and you are often quite happy to tell lies yourself 

[WDSmart]

1 hour ago, Jingthing said:

1 hour ago, 300sd said:

The antisemites are thick around here.

Par for the course.

Not just here.

@Jingthing and @300sd, Although I don't claim to be one myself, I'd like to ask you both, why do you think there are such people as those you describe as "antisemite"?

[WDSmart]

1 hour ago, Jingthing said:

1 hour ago, WDSmart said:

 

According to the online Oxford Language dictionary, Zionism is: "a movement for (originally) the re-establishment and (now) the development and protection of a Jewish nation in what is now Israel." Do you have a different definition of it?

You just own goaled.

No Zionism.

No Israel.

You want to kill Zionism means you want to end Israel.

Yes we all can and should despise Netanyahu but any Israeli leader from left to right is going to be a Zionist. 

Edited 1 hour ago by Jingthing

My definition of a Zionist is as above, with the addition of one word - "only." That would make it "a movement for the development and protection of only a Jewish nation in what is now Israel."

[Nick Carter icp]

24 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

Facts like that are wasted on the Jew haters.

Not to mention the fact that Israel includes 20 percent Arabs as citizens.

 

   The Human species originated from Africa 200 000 years ago...............apart from Jews who originated from Eastern Europe in 1900's

[WDSmart]

1 hour ago, Nick Carter icp said:

1 hour ago, Brickleberry said:

Israel is a racist, settler colonial project that would not have been possible without hundreds of thousand of white European settlers stealing the land and homes of the indigenous people.

 

 

 

 

   Australia is calling and says "Hello"

Heard you mention White European settlers stealing homes of the indigenous people and Australia asks what you want and can they be of any assistance 

Yes! My home country, the USA, did just that same. It wasn't right then, and it's not right now. How could you think any differently?

[Rimmer]

An inflammatory post has been removed

[Nick Carter icp]

1 minute ago, WDSmart said:

Yes! My home country, the USA, did just that same. It wasn't right then, and it's not right now. How could you think any differently?

 

  Why aren't you back in the USA campaigning for an independent American Indian homeland with say, Washington D.C as its Capital and all USA citizens leaving to go back somewhere else ?

   Why don't you revoke your USA citizenship in protest .

Why not stop telling Israelis what they should be doing and start doing what you should be doing ?

[WDSmart]

33 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

Jews are indigenous to the land that is now Israel.

Jews were NOT indigenous to that land. If you believe the Torah and the New Testament, they migrated there from Egypt over 2,000 years ago. It was then called Canaan. They then forcibly took control of the land from the Canaanites, from whom the modern-day Palestinians were descended.

As for the more modern (and better documented) era, In 1947, just before the UN established the state of Israel from the land that was then called "Palestine," it was only 30% Hebrew/Jewish. In just a year after the UN established the state of Isreal, and due to the rapid immigration of Jews from all over the world, it was 82%. Today, in 2024, that land is 73% Jewish.
Jewish & Non-Jewish Population of Israel/Palestine (1517-Present) (jewishvirtuallibrary.org)

[Jingthing]

37 minutes ago, WDSmart said:

@Jingthing and @300sd, Although I don't claim to be one myself, I'd like to ask you both, why do you think there are such people as those you describe as "antisemite"?

Why are there racists?

Why are there homophobes?

[WDSmart]

19 minutes ago, Nick Carter icp said:

 

  Why aren't you back in the USA campaigning for an independent American Indian homeland with say, Washington D.C as its Capital and all USA citizens leaving to go back somewhere else ?

   Why don't you revoke your USA citizenship in protest .

Why not stop telling Israelis what they should be doing and start doing what you should be doing ?

I'm not back in the USA because I enjoy living here in Thailand. All other US citizens can do what they want to do - stay or go.
I won't revoke my US citizenship because I would lose my Social Security retirement benefits.
I'm posting my opinions on current events on this Forum. And I generally do what I "should" be doing to the best of my ability.

[Jingthing]

10 minutes ago, WDSmart said:

Jews were NOT indigenous to that land. If you believe the Torah and the New Testament, they migrated there from Egypt over 2,000 years ago. It was then called Canaan. They then forcibly took control of the land from the Canaanites, from whom the modern-day Palestinians were descended.

As for the more modern (and better documented) era, In 1947, just before the UN established the state of Israel from the land that was then called "Palestine," it was only 30% Hebrew/Jewish. In just a year after the UN established the state of Isreal, and due to the rapid immigration of Jews from all over the world, it was 82%. Today, in 2024, that land is 73% Jewish.
Jewish & Non-Jewish Population of Israel/Palestine (1517-Present) (jewishvirtuallibrary.org)

Your post is stupid.

Are Indians not indigenous to the Americas because they originally came from SIBERIA?!?

As our species started in AFRICA, are any people indigenous.

Yes of course there was a wide DIASPORA of Jews from Roman times. So what?

You're just out to erase the legitimacy of Jews being in Israel.

It's so transparent. 

Jew haters / Israel demonizers falsely accuse Israel of genocide of Palestinians (a people that has massively increased in numbers) while at the same time promoting River to the Sea rhetoric promoting the genocide and or ethnic cleansing of Jews from Israel. Disgusting hateful hypocrisy.

[Jingthing]

4 minutes ago, WDSmart said:

I'm not back in the USA because I enjoy living here in Thailand. All other US citizens can do what they want to do - stay or go.
I won't revoke my US citizenship because I would lose my Social Security retirement benefits.
I'm posting my opinions on current events on this Forum. And I generally do what I "should" be doing to the best of my ability.

Non U.S. citizens receive SS benefits if they're eligible on credits just like citizens. 

[WDSmart]

3 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

41 minutes ago, WDSmart said:

@Jingthing and @300sd, Although I don't claim to be one myself, I'd like to ask you both, why do you think there are such people as those you describe as "antisemite"?

Why are there racists?

Why are there homophobes?

So, you won't answer my question but ask two of your own? I will answer them.
- There are racists because some people believe their race is superior to all others.
- There are homophobes because some people believe in religions that vilify homosexuality, and some, I think, are homophobic because they are afraid of their own homosexual feelings.

Now, will you answer my original question? "Why do you think there are such people as those you describe as "antisemite"? 

[Jingthing]

30 minutes ago, Nick Carter icp said:

 

  Why aren't you back in the USA campaigning for an independent American Indian homeland with say, Washington D.C as its Capital and all USA citizens leaving to go back somewhere else ?

   Why don't you revoke your USA citizenship in protest .

Why not stop telling Israelis what they should be doing and start doing what you should be doing ?

Because conflicts aren't interesting to such people if there aren't Jews involved. Like Syria? CRICKETS. 

[Jingthing]

3 minutes ago, WDSmart said:

So, you won't answer my question but ask two of your own? I will answer them.
- There are racists because some people believe their race is superior to all others.
- There are homophobes because some people believe in religions that vilify homosexuality, and some, I think, are homophobic because they are afraid of their own homosexual feelings.

Now, will you answer my original question? "Why do you think there are such people as those you describe as "antisemite"? 

Antisemitism is racism. 

 

Antisemitism is racism. We need to acknowledge that | David Baddiel | The Guardian

[WDSmart]

1 minute ago, Jingthing said:

Non U.S. citizens receive SS benefits if they're eligible on credits just like citizens. 

I've never heard that before. I have heard that those classed as US Residents who are not citizens can receive SS benefits. But in any event, I don't intend to abandon my US citizenship. 

[ozimoron]

3 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

Antisemitism is racism. 

 

Agreed.

 

Zionism is racism.

[Jingthing]

Just now, ozimoron said:

 

Agreed.

 

Zionism is racism.

If Zionism is racism as you think then Palestinian nationalism is racist too.

Don't act dumb.

You know perfectly well how the political ideology of Zionism developed.

Thousands of years in the diaspora showed that Jews could never be safe for long term in any country that wasn't their own homeland. Pogroms, Inquisitions, Genocides, Incredibly restrictive anti-Jew laws, etc.

It is debatable of course whether Jews are safe in Israel. But having a strong IDF helps. In any case, Israel exists and it isn't going anywhere unless of course it's enemies succeed to in their genocidal goals.

[Jingthing]

6 minutes ago, WDSmart said:

I've never heard that before. I have heard that those classed as US Residents who are not citizens can receive SS benefits. But in any event, I don't intend to abandon my US citizenship. 

Neither do I. It's a strong passport and you need another citizenship first to revoke it.

[ozimoron]

1 minute ago, Jingthing said:

If Zionism is racism as you think then Palestinian nationalism is racist too.

Don't act dumb.

You know perfectly well how the political ideology of Zionism developed.

Thousands of years in the diaspora showed that Jews could never be safe for long term in any country that wasn't their own homeland. Pogroms, Inquisitions, Genocides, Incredibly restrictive anti-Jew laws, etc.

It is debatable of course whether Jews are safe in Israel. But having a strong IDF helps. In any case, Israel exists and it isn't going anywhere unless of course it's enemies succeed to in their genocidal goals.

 

Yes, I do. I think all nationalists are fundamentally racist. Those Palestinians who believe Israel should not exist are racist. Obviously. What's your point? Palestinians who want it all are racist but Israelis who want it all are not?

[WDSmart]

11 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

Antisemitism is racism. 

 

Antisemitism is racism. We need to acknowledge that | David Baddiel | The Guardian

Thanks. I was wondering whether you viewed it as racism or something against Judaism, the religion. The term "Jew" is used both to describe someone who is Hebrew and someone who practices Judaism. The term "antisemite" has been reduced it its definition over the years to only mean "anti-Hebrew/Jewish." Originally, it meant anti-Semite, and "Semite" refers to both Arabs and Hebrews. 

[Jingthing]

1 minute ago, ozimoron said:

 

Yes, I do. I think all nationalists are fundamentally racist. Those Palestinians who believe Israel should not exist are racist. Obviously. What's your point? Palestinians who want it all are racist but Israelis who want it all are not?

I call B.S.!

How is it that Zionist Israel which yes indeed is Zionist as that was the root reason for it's existence to be a homeland of political self determination for Jewish people wants it all when 20 percent of its population is Arab?

[WDSmart]

7 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

If Zionism is racism as you think then Palestinian nationalism is racist too.

Don't act dumb.

You know perfectly well how the political ideology of Zionism developed.

Thousands of years in the diaspora showed that Jews could never be safe for long term in any country that wasn't their own homeland. Pogroms, Inquisitions, Genocides, Incredibly restrictive anti-Jew laws, etc.

It is debatable of course whether Jews are safe in Israel. But having a strong IDF helps. In any case, Israel exists and it isn't going anywhere unless of course it's enemies succeed to in their genocidal goals.

Racism is racism despite any attempt to rationalize it.

[Jingthing]

1 minute ago, WDSmart said:

Thanks. I was wondering whether you viewed it as racism or something against Judaism, the religion. The term "Jew" is used both to describe someone who is Hebrew and someone who practices Judaism. The term "antisemite" has been reduced it its definition over the years to only mean "anti-Hebrew/Jewish." Originally, it meant anti-Semite, and "Semite" refers to both Arabs and Hebrews. 

Do you think the Nazis checked the level of religious practice before sending Jews to the gas (as was recently advocated to happen again outside the Sydney opera house)?
Your level of ignorance is stunning. 

[Brickleberry]

1 hour ago, Jingthing said:

Jews weren't seen as "white" in Europe.

Jews in the Muslim world did live under discriminatory laws but you're correct not as severe as Christian nation ones.

Of course never mind the Jewish Nakba that came later -- something Israel demonizers act like it never happened if they're even aware of it.

Your problem is that you've bought into the simple minded leftist ideology that "white" people are always bad and darker people are always dear lovable oppressed angels.

It's a crock!

It has nothing to do with the history of Israel.

Jews are indigenous to the land that is now Israel.

They were there far before the Arabs who were indeed colonialists there, not to mention the Turks and Brits.

According to your truly vile Jew hating narrative the Jews that did save themselves by migrating to Palestine (British mandate colony) before the holocaust should have just stayed there to be shot and gassed.

I'll ignore your pathetic and moronic attempt to try to tie the history of the Zionist movement (a LIBERATION movement) to current western border issues. It doesn't wash.

You really don't need to reply to this. I know all your talking points. They are vile and we have zero space for agreement.

 

 

We both agree that Jews were horribly mistreated in Europe. That is not an Arab problem. It is a European problem.

 

The Jewish communities in the 'Muslim' world were treated very well. Don't believe me? Why not ask an Iraqi Jew - Professor Avi Shlaim - who was very wealthy and happy in Iraq. He is a professor in Oxford University and lives in the UK now, but he was an IDF soldier, was raised in Israel, and spoke of how he was discriminated against as an Arab Jew. Israel is a white supremacist country, and this has been well documented. Arab Jews had to 'prove themselves' and were very poorly treated within Israel.

 

The Jewish 'nakba' - why did you have to steal their words? Stealing their land and homes not enough for you? Anyway. The Jewish nakba was a response to the actual 'nakba' that Israel did -when it murdered and ethnically cleansed around 750,000 Palestinians from their homes, and never allowed them to return. 

 

There are indeed some Jews who are indigenous; there were about 15,000 Jews who were living in British Mandate for Palestine. They got along fine in the area, and had been doing so for centuries. The problems occurred when the white Zionist movement came over to Palestine and decided they wanted a racist state. Read Hershel's letters, they are quite illuminating. You can't claim that Europeans who had lived in Europe for the last 2000 years are indigenous to the land. That would be as ridiculous as saying we are all from Africa, so therefore we are all entitled to move to Africa and do whatever we want with the black population. Oh, that's right, we did that before. South Africa, apartheid, etc.

 

No, according to my 'vile narrative' Jews were kicked out of Europe due to racist ideology, pogroms across the continent and religious frictions between Christian/Jewish communities. At the end of the day, they were kicked out of their homes for being Jewish. This is not an Arab problem, it is a European problem. Instead of acknowledging these past crimes, and facing up to the responsibility, they decided to send them to Palestine - a place that already had an indigenous population, and a place that the British had promised to hand back to the native Arabs before the Balfour declaration was ever even thought of. My problem is not with Jews. I have a problem with Israelis - they should not exist.

 

If you look into the vote surrounding the creation of Israel, it actually goes against the UN charter - it was an illegal vote. Furthermore, the security council resolution was 1 vote under quorum - further making it an illegal document. Israel is an illegal, immoral state and must end. The land is Palestine, and it should return to being Palestine. European's have no right to steal other people's land based on a 3000 year old book that claims Abraham was a 175 year man directly descended from Noah. Interestingly, their holy book points out quite clearly that the Jews originated from Iraq and moved to Palestine as conquerors of the indigenous Canaanites. How can you claim Jews are from Israel, when their holy book says they are from Iraq. Israel is a 'promised land' - not the birthplace land.   

 

 

[WDSmart]

9 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

If Zionism is racism as you think then Palestinian nationalism is racist too.

Don't act dumb.

You know perfectly well how the political ideology of Zionism developed.

Thousands of years in the diaspora showed that Jews could never be safe for long term in any country that wasn't their own homeland. Pogroms, Inquisitions, Genocides, Incredibly restrictive anti-Jew laws, etc.

It is debatable of course whether Jews are safe in Israel. But having a strong IDF helps. In any case, Israel exists and it isn't going anywhere unless of course it's enemies succeed to in their genocidal goals.

"If Zionism is racism as you think then Palestinian nationalism is racist too." Yes! I do. I think both sides in this conflict are racists and anti- the other's religion. 

[Jingthing]

2 minutes ago, WDSmart said:

Racism is racism despite any attempt to rationalize it.

I don't agree that Zionism is racism.

It's origin was a LIBERATION movement for arguably the most persecuted minority on the planet.

Yes of course some Zionist people are racists just like any other people.

[Brickleberry]

2 minutes ago, WDSmart said:

Racism is racism despite any attempt to rationalize it.

 

Exactly! European racists caused this problem, and now they want to blame the Arabs.

[WDSmart]

3 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

Do you think the Nazis checked the level of religious practice before sending Jews to the gas (as was recently advocated to happen again outside the Sydney opera house)?
Your level of ignorance is stunning. 

I don't think there were many "Jews" living in Germany in that era that did not practice Judaism. My "level of ignorance" on this subject is the belief that the Nazis believed the Jews were both an inferior race and one which accumulated wealth and used it to enslave others.