2 hours ago, RayC said:

 

Any evidence to support this contention that lots of migrants to the UK are unmotivated and undocumented?

 

You're right. I'm sure these guys have all their paperwork in order 😄.

 

11 minutes ago, JonnyF said:

 

You're right. I'm sure these guys have all their paperwork in order 😄.

 

I thought Rishi had that under control.

 

Wasn’t ‘Stopping the Boats by end 2023’ one of his five pledges?

 

Which raises a question.

 

Are you sure you’ve correctly identified the cause of poverty increasing in the UK?

 

 

58 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

My personal poverty (and the poverty of my former wife and 4 kids) was inflicted entirely by the UK family court and divorce.

Would point out UK benefits is usually only available to women with kids and immigrants (of any flavour).

Rather proves my point.  Benefits in the UK are available to all, including young, single men, as well as women, supposedly seeking work, even of they are doing nothing of the kind.  No particular group is excluded from claiming benefits,  if they meet the criteria by virtue of having no income. 

44 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

I thought Rishi had that under control.

 

Wasn’t ‘Stopping the Boats by end 2023’ one of his five pledges?

 

Which raises a question.

 

Are you sure you’ve correctly identified the cause of poverty increasing in the UK?

 

 

 

You are deflecting. We were discussing whether uncontrolled, illegal immigration benefits the economy. In my opinion it costs the taxpayers millions, increases crime, puts pressure on services and destroys the culture. You are welcome to your opinion. 

 

But yes, Rishi Sunak is a total waste of space, I think we have already established that. That's why some polls are showing Reform only 4 points behind the "Conservatives". 

1 minute ago, JonnyF said:

 

You are deflecting. We were discussing whether uncontrolled, illegal immigration benefits the economy. In my opinion it costs the taxpayers millions, increases crime, puts pressure on services and destroys the culture. You are welcome to your opinion. 

 

But yes, Rishi Sunak is a total waste of space, I think we have already established that. That's why some polls are showing Reform only 4 points behind the "Conservatives". 

Not deflecting at all.

 

You’re attempting to scapegoat immigrants. 
 

You have yet to provide any evidence that they are responsible for the significant rise in poverty in the UK.

 

 

10 hours ago, Skipalongcassidy said:

Brits cannot solve their own problems but all of them on this forum have all the answers for the USA

They live in Pattaya or Nakhon Nowhere. 30,000 baht a month.

1 hour ago, JonnyF said:

 

You're right. I'm sure these guys have all their paperwork in order 😄.

 

 

# of immigrant entering UK in '23: 1.25m

of which 36,000 (3%) were illegal.

 

So +/-97% of immigrants to the UK in 2023 presumably had the right papers.

 

Doesn't seem like we need to be overly concerned about the (lack of) documentation.

9 hours ago, JonnyF said:

How can this be?

 

So much mass immigration and still a huge rise in poverty. Could it be that bringing in lots of unskilled, unmotivated, undocumented people doesn't boost the economy like they told us?

 

Or might it be that our government is less focused on the needs of the many and too concerned about the needs of the few? 

 

Certainly, regardless of it's provenance, 14 years of Tory government has been a disaster for the UK. This is on their watch.

6 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

IMO anyone that claims to be poor, but uses a dishwasher, smokes tobacco, uses illegal drugs or drinks alcohol is not poor. They are IMO stupid.

"If you think money will make you happy you have never had much"

 

Mike Tyson

9 minutes ago, Dolf said:

"If you think money will make you happy you have never had much"

 

Mike Tyson

 

“Money can't buy you happiness but it does bring you a more pleasant form of misery.”

 

Spike Milligan 

10 hours ago, Chomper Higgot said:

Be careful with that Brit bashing of yours, there’s folk here who get awfully upset about it.

 

I think that was a fair post. A lot of folks might get upset but if they are honest with themselves, they will know why those comments are made.

9 hours ago, RayC said:

 

 

Brexit may not have destroyed the UK's economy but it has severely damaged it, as almost all reports into its' effects have demonstrated.

 

Was Brexit the catalyst for the fracturing of the country? Debatable, but I'd suggest it has certainly deepened the divide. Add in the fact that Brexit has soured relations with the EU (member states) and been a major contributor to the political chaos in N. Ireland, then I'd suggest that the benefits need to be substantial to compensate. 

 

Unfortunately, there are few benefits to be seen. No positives to speak of economically; no trade deals of any significance. The much touted 'taking back control' has had little, if any, positive effect. Indeed, when it comes to immigration, it can be argued that 'taking back control' has been negative, as it is now much more bureaucratic complicated and financially costly for UK employers to fill vacancies from overseas than it was when we were part of the single market. 

 

All in all, Brexit has been a(n almost) total failure to date.

 

But of course, and as most of you know, I'm very happy away from the EU. 

 

The serious and emerging divisions in Britain today have little to do with Brexit.

4 hours ago, RuamRudy said:

 

Or might it be that our government is less focused on the needs of the many and too concerned about the needs of the few? 

 

Certainly, regardless of it's provenance, 14 years of Tory government has been a disaster for the UK. This is on their watch.

 

You forgot the 10 years before that.

The West is going down, both from an economic and social point of view. It isn't just the UK.

15 hours ago, Nick Carter icp said:

 

  To solve that problem, I used to wear warm clothes in my UK house and no need for heating at all 

So you didn't shower, and didn't wash your clothes? 

 

How did you heat your water with no heating?  

 

How did you prevent your water pipes freezing and bursting? 

 

How did you prevent condensation and mold? 

 

You expect babies, young children and frail elderly people to live with no heating in a UK winter in this day and age? 

 

Your idea it to go back to good old Dickensian times when poor people died from cold?  

 

 

 

 

 

 

15 hours ago, JonnyF said:

 

Huge generalization. Some do, some don't. In my opinion legal immigrants tend to do well, illegal immigrants are a scourge. 

 

What it does do is put huge strain on housing, schooling, the NHS, the police etc. 

A bigger huge strain on the NHS, schooling, housing and the police is the current government 

 

7 minutes ago, jak2002003 said:

How did you heat your water with no heating?

Electric shower. Kettle.

 

8 minutes ago, jak2002003 said:

How did you prevent your water pipes freezing and bursting? 

Lagging

 

8 minutes ago, jak2002003 said:

How did you prevent condensation and mold? 

Air circulation. Keep the windows open for 30 minutes or so each day.

 

9 minutes ago, jak2002003 said:

So you didn't shower, and didn't wash your clothes? 

No need for heating to shower or wash clothes.

 

10 minutes ago, jak2002003 said:

You expect babies, young children and frail elderly people to live with no heating in a UK winter in this day and age? 

Why is this day and age different to others?

10 minutes ago, jak2002003 said:

A bigger huge strain on the NHS, schooling, housing and the police is the current government 

 

How? There are only about 600 MPs in the whole of the commons.

15 hours ago, JonnyF said:

 

Huge generalization. Some do, some don't. In my opinion legal immigrants tend to do well, illegal immigrants are a scourge. 

 

What it does do is put huge strain on housing, schooling, the NHS, the police etc. 

Legal migrants pay IHS for NHS. Currently £1035 per year. They must pay it even if they are working, paying tax and NI, which most of them do in order to get a visa in the first place and to renew.

 

I don't understand this idea that they put a strain on housing. All of the immigrants I work with privately rent their homes. Places that were empty prior to the renting. How can people renting empty properties be a strain?

 

With regards to police, are you suggesting legal migrants are less law abiding than others?

 

Schooling? Not where I live but I guess that could be different by region.

5 hours ago, youreavinalaff said:

How? There are only about 600 MPs in the whole of the commons.

They are the ones allowing the extortionate prices of the utilities...so people can't afford to heat their homes!  

 

The high prices are more to do with high taxation in fuel and record massive profits for the gas and water companies...which are foreign owned...

5 hours ago, youreavinalaff said:

Legal migrants pay IHS for NHS. Currently £1035 per year. They must pay it even if they are working, paying tax and NI, which most of them do in order to get a visa in the first place and to renew.

 

I don't understand this idea that they put a strain on housing. All of the immigrants I work with privately rent their homes. Places that were empty prior to the renting. How can people renting empty properties be a strain?

 

With regards to police, are you suggesting legal migrants are less law abiding than others?

 

Schooling? Not where I live but I guess that could be different by region.

And the government under Thatcher sold off all our council housing and did not build any more. 

7 hours ago, youreavinalaff said:

Legal migrants pay IHS for NHS. Currently £1035 per year. They must pay it even if they are working, paying tax and NI, which most of them do in order to get a visa in the first place and to renew.

 

I don't understand this idea that they put a strain on housing. All of the immigrants I work with privately rent their homes. Places that were empty prior to the renting. How can people renting empty properties be a strain?

 

With regards to police, are you suggesting legal migrants are less law abiding than others?

 

Schooling? Not where I live but I guess that could be different by region.

There's a massive lack of housing. More people increases the problem. Doesn't matter what they do. It's a numbers game. 

 

Same for school places. Same for nhs beds. The uk has enough people. We can be choosy and bring in the cream of the crop. Not everyone who fancies it.

1 minute ago, JonnyF said:

There's a massive lack of housing. More people increases the problem. Doesn't matter what they do. It's a numbers game. 

 

Same for school places. Same for nhs beds. The uk has enough people. We can be choosy and bring in the cream of the crop. Not everyone who fancies it.

14 years of failing to build affordable housing and the previous madness of selling off council houses coming home to roost.

 

 

28 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

14 years of failing to build affordable housing and the previous madness of selling off council houses coming home to roost.

 

 

 

Wouldn't be as big a problem if we weren't importing hundreds of thousands of immigrants every year, ruining the local culture in the process. 

Until the ginormous transfer of wealth from the poor to the rich as experienced over the past 50 years is addressed and tax avoiding mega corporations are forced to actually pay some tax the situation will get worse. The  current inflation only exacerbates the problem as those with assets see an increase in their wealth while those without see only higher prices for staples.

 

Wealth — the value of a household’s property and financial assets, minus the value of its debts — is much more highly concentrated than income. The best survey data show that the share of wealth held by the top 1 percent rose from 30 percent in 1989 to 39 percent in 2016, while the share held by the bottom 90 percent fell from 33 percent to 23 percent.

 

https://www.cbpp.org/research/poverty-and-inequality/a-guide-to-statistics-on-historical-trends-in-income-inequality

 

 

1 hour ago, Chomper Higgot said:

14 years of failing to build affordable housing and the previous madness of selling off council houses coming home to roost.

 

 

 

You forgot the 10 years before that too. Blair encouraged the onset of high immigration but how many houses did he build? There has been a lag ever since.

 

Before immigration increased, after the creation of the EU and then Blair, council houses were offered by Thatcher to existing tenants to give them a chance to won their own home. Criminal!

No handouts

Licence to breed

 

 

45 minutes ago, ozimoron said:

Until the ginormous transfer of wealth from the poor to the rich as experienced over the past 50 years is addressed and tax avoiding mega corporations are forced to actually pay some tax the situation will get worse. The  current inflation only exacerbates the problem as those with assets see an increase in their wealth while those without see only higher prices for staples.

 

Wealth — the value of a household’s property and financial assets, minus the value of its debts — is much more highly concentrated than income. The best survey data show that the share of wealth held by the top 1 percent rose from 30 percent in 1989 to 39 percent in 2016, while the share held by the bottom 90 percent fell from 33 percent to 23 percent.

 

https://www.cbpp.org/research/poverty-and-inequality/a-guide-to-statistics-on-historical-trends-in-income-inequality

 

 

 

Your example concerns the US rather than the UK but I am both staggered and inclined to agree with one of your posts, on principle.

1 minute ago, nauseus said:

Your example concerns the US rather than the UK but I am both staggered and inclined to agree with one of your posts, on principle.

 

Welcome to the marxist party LOL.

13 hours ago, nauseus said:

 

But of course, and as most of you know, I'm very happy away from the EU. 

 

Could you explain why given that Brexit has delivered few, if any, benefits?

 

13 hours ago, nauseus said:

The serious and emerging divisions in Britain today have little to do with Brexit.

 

Perhaps so, but Brexit was the original division upon which these other fractures have emerged.