Review of the Hotel Act. Airbnb encouraging feedback to the review board.

[AverageAussie]

I received the following email from Airbnb today. It seems that the Thailand Ministry of Interior’s Department of Provincial Administration (DOPA) is currently holding a virtual public consultation until 31 March 2024 to gather feedback on the effectiveness of the Hotel Act in Thailand.

 

Hosts are encouraged to voice out their concerns and advocate for a fairer Hotel Act 31 March 2024.

[Peterw42]

Thanks for the link, I will certainly be voicing my concerns and advocating that Airbnb be completely shutdown in Thailand.

If you want a short term rental, stay in one of the 1,000s of great and affordable hotels, if you want a long term rental sign a lease on a condo.

There is no need for airbnb to operate in Thailand.

Edited March 27 by Peterw42

[jaywalker2]

16 minutes ago, Peterw42 said:

Thanks for the link, I will certainly be voicing my concerns and advocating that Airbnb be completely shutdown in Thailand.

If you want a short term rental, stay in one of the 1,000s of great and affordable hotels, if you want a long term rental sign a lease on a condo.

There is no need for airbnb to operate in Thailand.

That will never happen. There are hundreds of thousands of condos in Bangkok that can't find long-term tenants so they turn them into Airbnb's. My building has recently had an influx of Chinese, Arabs, and Russians.

In Thailand, it's all about the money. Nobody gives a hoot about quality of life.

[proton]

Nothing wrong with the law, just start prosecuting those letting for less than a month, which is most of them

[AverageAussie]

Just for a bit of clarity, under the current act there is nothing illegal about listing accommodation on Airbnb - provided:

• the building/ room has a hotel licence
• the term of the lease is at least 30 days if there is no licence.

A lot of guests houses etc also list on that platform.

[Tropicalevo]

8 minutes ago, AverageAussie said:

Just for a bit of clarity, under the current act there is nothing illegal about listing accommodation on Airbnb - provided:

• the building/ room has a hotel licence
• the term of the lease is at least 30 days if there is no licence.

If the property has a private pool, that too needs a pool licence.

 

Both licences are to be renewed each year.

[ChipButty]

There’s enough room for hotel rooms and short-term rentals to compete side by side. Each offers unique pros and cons that appeal to different segments of the market.

[jaideedave]

I am a victim if the hotel act.We were happily living in our house in the moo ban for 17 years. One day they knocked down the house next door and over the next 6 monthS built a large 5 br pool villa.

It's listed in Booking.com for rent as 3 day minimum, about 12k.

A Chinese couple bought/financed it using the female moo ban manager via a proxy deal. I assume the chanote has the Thai ladies name on it along with a lease.

Every week a new gang arrives and the pool parties begin from around 1 am till sunrise.

The pool is located adjacent to the wall separating our house and master bedroom.

I've spent 50k on mods for laminated windows etc to no avail.

The best advice I received was to move. I now have leased a condo near Jomtien. The wife splits her time between condo/house.

Much better for my bp and no 3 am wake ups.

Livid in LOS.

[impulse]

1 hour ago, Tropicalevo said:

If the property has a private pool, that too needs a pool licence.

 

Both licences are to be renewed each year.

 

Just out of curiosity, what does it cost to keep a registered hotel room legal for a year?

 

And mechanically, how does an AirBNB property pay hotel taxes?  Does AirBNB hold out and remit the hotel taxes, or is the property owner responsible for reporting the income and remitting the taxes?  Not to mention any income taxes in addition to the hotel tax.  Then I wonder if AirBNB is required to report (to the Revenue Department) any amount they pay to the property owner, and under what tax ID if any?

 

I'm mostly wondering if AirBNB'ers are competing on a level playing field. 

[newnative]

Keep condo rentals of less than 30 days illegal.

[Tropicalevo]

55 minutes ago, impulse said:

And mechanically, how does an AirBNB property pay hotel taxes?  Does AirBNB hold out and remit the hotel taxes, or is the property owner responsible for reporting the income and remitting the taxes?  Not to mention any income taxes in addition to the hotel tax.  Then I wonder if AirBNB is required to report (to the Revenue Department) any amount they pay to the property owner, and under what tax ID if any?

 

You are asking questions in grey areas.

Here I am talking about my experience on Koh Samui - it may be different depending upon the different local authorities. (A bit like 'local' immigration rules.)

The villa is not a hotel but the local authorities change the heading from Hotel Licence to Villa Licence.

The document is the same thing though.

The properties are not registered as hotels but just forced to go by the same rules as hotels. eg smoke alarms, fire extinguishers, safety ring for pools etc etc.

When we first applied for villa licences years ago, our company accountant said that legally, Villa Licences do not exist. So we went through an agent.

Some owners used their own accountants.

As they are not registered hotels, I would think that they do not pay hotel taxes.

The income and taxation is down to individual owners.

Our company does not get involved in the villa rentals/AirBnb.

 

55 minutes ago, impulse said:

I'm mostly wondering if AirBNB'ers are competing on a level playing field.

How can it be a level playing field.

It would be like ice hockey players playing against a golfer.

Many hotels are part of larger organisations.

AirBnb properties are mostly owned by individuals.

Edited March 27 by Tropicalevo

[Tropicalevo]

51 minutes ago, impulse said:

Just out of curiosity, what does it cost to keep a registered hotel room legal for a year?

Same as a hotel. It is the same licence.

[impulse]

1 hour ago, Tropicalevo said:

2 hours ago, impulse said:

Just out of curiosity, what does it cost to keep a registered hotel room legal for a year?

Same as a hotel. It is the same licence.

What I meant is whether the license costs more for a 100 room hotel than it does for a 10 room hotel.  For example, if you had a 50 room hotel and it costs 50,000 baht a year to keep it registered, that would be 1000 baht per room.  Or is it a flat fee regardless of how big it is?

 

[proton]

3 hours ago, jaideedave said:

I am a victim if the hotel act.We were happily living in our house in the moo ban for 17 years. One day they knocked down the house next door and over the next 6 monthS built a large 5 br pool villa.

It's listed in Booking.com for rent as 3 day minimum, about 12k.

A Chinese couple bought/financed it using the female moo ban manager via a proxy deal. I assume the chanote has the Thai ladies name on it along with a lease.

Every week a new gang arrives and the pool parties begin from around 1 am till sunrise.

The pool is located adjacent to the wall separating our house and master bedroom.

I've spent 50k on mods for laminated windows etc to no avail.

The best advice I received was to move. I now have leased a condo near Jomtien. The wife splits her time between condo/house.

Much better for my bp and no 3 am wake ups.

Livid in LOS.

 

Report them then, illegal letting

[Tropicalevo]

1 hour ago, impulse said:

What I meant is whether the license costs more for a 100 room hotel than it does for a 10 room hotel.  For example, if you had a 50 room hotel and it costs 50,000 baht a year to keep it registered, that would be 1000 baht per room.  Or is it a flat fee regardless of how big it is?

 

Sorry - no idea as we do not look after villas in those categories.

We definitely pay a flat fee be it a two bedroom villa or a six bedroom one.

[AverageAussie]

6 hours ago, Peterw42 said:

Thanks for the link, I will certainly be voicing my concerns and advocating that Airbnb be completely shutdown in Thailand.

 

Good for you and an amazing effort!

 

I didn't share the link, only a screenshot.  

 

Of course there's nothing to stop you searching for the same DOPA link on their website and putting your own ฿2 in, but if you do - that would be more than the remaining apathetic 99.99% of the population would ever consider.

[jaideedave]

1 hour ago, proton said:

 

Report them then, illegal letting

Apparently if its registered as a "hotel" its legal. The dodgy part is the Thai lady being a nominee representing the Chinese. We all know farangs with registered businesses that have their residence listed there. Same thing?

[ChipButty]

12 minutes ago, AverageAussie said:

 

Good for you and an amazing effort!

 

I didn't share the link, only a screenshot.  

 

Of course there's nothing to stop you searching for the same DOPA link on their website and putting your own ฿2 in, but if you do - that would be more than the remaining apathetic 99.99% of the population would ever consider.

It's not on their web site it was sent out as an email which is applicable to members in Thailand, did it say at the bottom, to be filled out in Thai language. something like that 

Edited March 27 by ChipButty

[digbeth]

before covid there was big crackdown on hotels without hotel license in tourist town like Pattaya, 

back then it was found out that only small percentage of 'hotels' actually had hotel license, which to qualify they require facilities like pool, lobby, restaurant

many went by with room for rent or apartment license instead 

 

Unlike condos, detached house can be rented out 'homestay' for under 30 days so nothing wrong with airbnb out villas 

 

[CartagenaWarlock]

6 hours ago, jaywalker2 said:

In Thailand, it's all about the money. Nobody gives a hoot about quality of life.

And people still flee 10,000 miles to live in Thailand, like refugees (year-to-year contracts), find women, and have families, because they cannot afford a quality life in their home country. 

[geisha]

Of course many tourists ( and non tourists) need a place for more than a month. Too expensive to stay in a hotel for this amount of time, and not all condos will do short term rent .Also, people like the added extras such as a small kitchen/ pool/ internet/ international TV channels. That’s where Airbnb can offer many options.  I would défi keep the law as it is , illegal under 30 days . There are so many small hotels and chain hotels like Accors Ibis for cheap short stays. Airbnb notices should be posted on main entrances visibly, and checked up by the authorities regularly. .

[AverageAussie]

32 minutes ago, geisha said:

Of course many tourists ( and non tourists) need a place for more than a month. Too expensive to stay in a hotel for this amount of time, and not all condos will do short term rent .Also, people like the added extras such as a small kitchen/ pool/ internet/ international TV channels. That’s where Airbnb can offer many options.  I would défi keep the law as it is , illegal under 30 days . There are so many small hotels and chain hotels like Accors Ibis for cheap short stays. Airbnb notices should be posted on main entrances visibly, and checked up by the authorities regularly. .

 

Agreed. I think visitors globally have different expectations & requirements for accommodation - and Airbnb (as a platform) does fill a market niche. Otherwise they would never have succeeded as they have.

 

Management in most of bigger & better condominium buildings are alert for the short-term tenancies and will crack down on infringers. In some cases I've heard that there is a hotel licence in place for the building (or parts of it). That's okay if standards are up to par and they're staying within the law & pay their fees, taxes etc.

 

I'm not suggesting that there isn't a lot of illegal short-term stays, but that's an enforcement issue (as you have pointed out). Nothing to do with the platform. If you make Airbnb illegal it will be quickly replaced by marketing services elsewhere - probably a lot less secure & open to scams such as those already prevalent on social media.

 

What could be done is more clarity & simplicity in licencing for the short-term market. For the long-term rentals (>30 days) I'd hate to see an extra layer of regulation imposed. It would be an administrative nightmare for agents and those owners already doing the right thing. The only exception might be the creation of a rental bond agency to hold & manage those funds and independently adjudicate in disputes.

[mokwit]

1 hour ago, geisha said:

Too expensive to stay in a hotel for this amount of time

Translation: cheap stay at the expense of other condo owners. We are subsidising their holiday.

[ChipButty]

The short term rental market in Thailand is huge, It's not just Airbnb, you have Booking.com, Agoda, VRBO, Trip advisor and many more. 

One big problem with the STR properties is the absentee landlords were many guest do self checkin there is no control over how many guest are checking in, one reason why they turn into parties and places get trashed things get stolen, 

Some states in America require the host to be living within a certain distance from the property.

To ban airbnb altogether is not the answer you would have to ban the whole of the STR business. 

Many people prefer to rent an airbnb over a hotel I think the figures and results tell you that, You cant beat renting a nice Pool villa with a full kitchen you can go and do all your own shopping for food and drink, Ha s been popular over the years with Russian families especially when they have a couple of kids, 

[ChipButty]

4 minutes ago, mokwit said:

Translation: cheap stay at the expense of other condo owners. We are subsidising their holiday.

How do you work that out? 

[mokwit]

12 minutes ago, ChipButty said:

How do you work that out? 

Increased wear and tear from endless streams of wheelie luggage groups and usage such as pool which ST letters use disproportionately.

 

Also at our expense in terms of decreased quality of living environment.

 

Facilities which we should really have with that number of unregistered strangers coming through e.g a hotel with fewer rooms than my condo has plainclothes security watching out for possible threats. Staff having to be diverted to e.g. check if fire escape doors are jammed open to circumvent key card security.

Edited March 28 by mokwit

[FolkGuitar]

Why spend time and energy changing or adjusting the laws if they don't enforce them?

 

 

 

[mokwit]

7 minutes ago, FolkGuitar said:

Why spend time and energy changing or adjusting the laws if they don't enforce them?

 

 

 

I would guess with the push for tourism and Srettha visiting AirBnB here, the intention is probably to relax the law. Obviously the hotel industry stands in the way of that.

 

Fact is with the increased difficulty of staying here long term due to visa tightening over the years without the huge number of people coming in compensating for that, and ST lets, there would be a lot more empty condos and less demand to buy new ones for letting out.

Edited March 28 by mokwit

[klauskunkel]

IMO a "Hotel Act" exists to govern hotels.

If you need to govern Airbnbs, then make an "Airbnb Act".

Get your act together and don't conflate acts, all you do is create loopholes.

But maybe that's your purpose...

[Henryford]

18 hours ago, proton said:

 

Report them then, illegal letting

 

To whom do you report it? Who enforces this illegality? Would he have to employ a solicitor?