Frozen pension policy turns British expat's dream into a nightmare

[jacko45k]

16 hours ago, MangoKorat said:

Why would anyone think their pension would be treated differently simply because they choose to live their retirement years in warmer climes?

It is called victim blaming, except when that victim is an illegal immigrant winging about how he is treated as an asylum seeker by  a country he sneaked into and has no right to be in, 

[Phulublub]

12 hours ago, MangoKorat said:

Guys, its not a secret.

 

A British Citizen can travel to Northern Ireland without a passport.  Some airlines want a passport - some will accept another form of photo ID.  I travelled there in 2015 by car/ferry and wasn't asked for any ID at all.

 

From Northern Ireland you can then travel to the South and not pass through a border. There is no requirement for a British Citizen to use a passport to travel to Ireland (Eire) as its part of the Commom Travel Area. Onwards to your destination through Dublin Airport where the passport authority is Irish and not UK.

 

Note that if you travel directly (as in not through Northern Ireland) between the UK and Ireland by air or sea, if you are a British Citizen your carrier will require photo ID - what that is is up to them and I believe that most WILL require a passport.

 

Both UK and Irish passport authorities maintain border control through their external borders - external to The Common Travel Area.  You cannot travel into either the UK or Ireland from outside the Common Travel Area without a passport. So its not a route that illegal immigrants can use.

 

https://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/government-in-ireland/ireland-and-the-uk/common-travel-area-between-ireland-and-the-uk/

So, to obtain the small annual increases in pension, you intend to break the rules and pretend to be living in the UK.  When you do return for visits, will fly to the EU, then use overland transport to enter the UK, then repeat that on the way back.  Seems a lot of effort, time and expense to me; you are still breaking the law and thus subject to penalties and fines.

 

PH

[sandyf]

17 hours ago, MangoKorat said:

you fail to realise just how many people are only entitled to a basic pension.

You fail to realise that people fully contracted out will only get a full state pension that equates to the basic component.

That does not mean they do not benefit from the other part of their NI in another way.

[sandyf]

17 hours ago, MangoKorat said:

If you have been receiving Pension Credit before your pension age, then you'd better be expecting a letter shortly requesting repayment.  Pension credit is there to top up the pensions of those who for whatever reason do not have enough contributions to enable them to get a full pension.  It is therefore - EVERYTHING to do with pensions. You should get your facts straight:

You should get your facts straight before trying to lecture someone.

Pension credit has nothing to do with pensions, it is a benefit under the income support regulations and on the 6th April 2010 the qualifying age was increased from 60 to match the retirement age.

I was 62 when I claimed in 2009.

[sandyf]

17 hours ago, MangoKorat said:

Everyone has received a Full State Pension have they?  Well then perhaps you can tell me why my sister has just been notified that she will be only be getting £539.68 every 4 weeks from June when she retires because she doesn't have enough contribuitions?

A Full State pension can only ever be what you are entitled to on reaching retirement age.

The frozen pension arrangement means you are deprived of the Full State pension in the following financial year if living in certain jurisdictions.

[sandyf]

Questtion for today.

Why are pensions fully funded bu NI contributions within the social security act and pensions partially funded by NI outside said act. The frozen pension legislation is embedded in the SSA.

In a truly equal society, ALL pensions derived in some way from NI would be frozen for all living ouside the UK, or the other scenario, none are frozen.

 

Under the State Pension rules before 2016, you or your workplace or private pension scheme could choose to ‘contract out’ of the Additional State Pension. The Additional State Pension was also known as State Second Pension or ‘SERPs’.

If you were contracted out of the Additional State Pension, some of your National Insurance contributions were either:

lower than people who were not contracted out

paid into another pension, for example a workplace or private pension

https://www.gov.uk/contracted-out#:~:text=The Additional State Pension was,Second Pension or 'SERPs'.&text=If you were contracted out of the Additional State Pension,a workplace or private pension

[Expat68]

32 minutes ago, sandyf said:

You should get your facts straight before trying to lecture someone.

Pension credit has nothing to do with pensions, it is a benefit under the income support regulations and on the 6th April 2010 the qualifying age was increased from 60 to match the retirement age.

I was 62 when I claimed in 2009.

I know someone who was also claiming winter fuel entitlement, until he got found out 

[BritManToo]

Just now, Expat68 said:

I know someone who was also claiming winter fuel entitlement, until he got found out 

There is no option not to claim it.

[FruitPudding]

19 hours ago, BigBruv said:

 

Agreed.  AI (which most boomers don't understand), will no doubt be introduced into the pubsec soon soon and, once implemented, will have many in a 'computer says no' scenario.

 

 

 

AI is already being used in the British public sector.

 

The NHS is already using Palantir.

[FritsSikkink]

21 hours ago, MangoKorat said:

Why would anyone think their pension would be treated differently simply because they choose to live their retirement years in warmer climes?

You need to know the law, don't blame others when you don't.

[FruitPudding]

2 minutes ago, FritsSikkink said:

You need to know the law, don't blame others when you don't.

 

Well, that's easier said than done. 

 

We don't all have law degrees and the law ain't always logical,  intuitive, or just.

[FritsSikkink]

12 minutes ago, FruitPudding said:

 

Well, that's easier said than done. 

 

We don't all have law degrees and the law ain't always logical,  intuitive, or just.

No need for a law degree, use google.

[FruitPudding]

39 minutes ago, FritsSikkink said:

No need for a law degree, use google.

 

This isn't a really good response. 

 

Not all laws are easy to comprehend and there are a lot of technical loopholes.

 

Google also has a lot of inaccurate information, so you need to be sure you have a good source.

 

Also, what about before the Internet? Go to a library? How many books would you need to read to understand all laws?

 

It also requires a level of intelligence many people don't have.

 

My grandparents don't have smartphones or computers. 

 

 

 

[FritsSikkink]

5 minutes ago, FruitPudding said:

Also, what about before the Internet? Go to a library? How many books would you need to read to understand all laws?

 

It also requires a level of intelligence many people don't have.

 

My grandparents don't have smartphones or computers. 

 

 

 

Phone the government.

My 80+ year mother had a smartphone and booked her holidays and did her payments on her computer.

Stay longer in school to get the basic knowledge to learn how to survive in this world or stay at home.

[Bobydog]

On 4/27/2024 at 4:26 PM, Nemises said:

Sounds like you hadn’t yet qualified for portability. Correct?

No mention of any portability and at 80 I figure I am qualified if it existed. Aust Gov has been catching up with their game over the years and many a happy lad in Thailand with their family taking care of the mail back home received a "Front and Center " request, whoops!

[liddelljohn]

Norway , Sweden and Finland  actively   support their, retirees and disabled to live in thailand ,as it cost less for them , but benefits the individual as well , its a win win ,, But of course UK is run by short sighted miserable bastards , who only serve the elite.

[transam]

5 minutes ago, liddelljohn said:

Norway , Sweden and Finland  actively   support their, retirees and disabled to live in thailand ,as it cost less for them , but benefits the individual as well , its a win win ,, But of course UK is run by short sighted miserable bastards , who only serve the elite.

As being English, I have to agree with that........🤗

[BigBruv]

6 hours ago, FruitPudding said:

 

AI is already being used in the British public sector.

 

The NHS is already using Palantir.

 

Cool story bro 👍

 

Don't need to be a genius to work out that bringing together *currently* disparate systems and databases will give govts

a single view of each of their subjects. 

https://papers.govtech.com/Achieving-a-single-view-of-the-citizen-with-information-management-1374.html

&

https://gds.blog.gov.uk/2021/12/01/one-login-for-government-december-2021-update/?utm_medium=referral&utm_source=martynssopost&utm_campaign=gdsblogbacklink

 

*Single View Of The Citizen* - ie. ALL your data visible in one system is something govts are working on now.

 

As I said previously, rule swervers will likely be ok for a few years but not indefinitely.

Edited May 1 by BigBruv

[Mike Teavee]

If you defer starting your pension then it should still accrue yearly cost of living increases so it might be worth anybody approaching State Pension age & facing a frozen pension to consider deferring it for a few years whilst current increases are so high, as a bonus your pension will increase by 1% every 9 weeks.

Edited May 1 by Mike Teavee

[Rampant Rabbit]

8 hours ago, Mike Teavee said:

If you defer starting your pension then it should still accrue yearly cost of living increases so it might be worth anybody approaching State Pension age & facing a frozen pension to consider deferring it for a few years whilst current increases are so high, as a bonus your pension will increase by 1% every 9 weeks.

This is my  plan as I come from a  line of  long livers, Mother currently 96 still driving lives  alone without help. Ill wait until at least 70 maybe more but I wouldnt be surprised that they remove entirely pensions for anyone living overseas. As stated with information technology ie BIG BROTHER they will know your every move. Glad my working years when I was self employed didnt have much of this crap that youngsters seem to embrace. The taxman lost out big time to CASH when I worked and Ill go to my grave particularly  happy  about that.

[BritManToo]

14 hours ago, BigBruv said:

As I said previously, rule swervers will likely be ok for a few years but not indefinitely.

I'll likely be dead before then.

[BigBruv]

7 hours ago, BritManToo said:

I'll likely be dead before then.

 

Fair play  - wasn't trying to scare anyone or say that UK authorities are not an utter bunch of c-units with that policy.

 

Also, a 'few years' may turn into many years as pubsec employees are useless and frequently mugged off by IT contractors

who don't deliver what they promise.

In the circumstances, you'll likely be fine for at least 5+ years (for context I worked in IT and was aware of 'single view of a citizen' aim 14 years ago). 

 

 

[sandyf]

On 5/1/2024 at 10:36 AM, Expat68 said:

I know someone who was also claiming winter fuel entitlement, until he got found out 

What on earth are you talking about, I was in the UK at the time I claimed pension credit, and you ought to be aware that nobody claims winter fuel allowance.

If you had bothered to keep up you would have seen that someone tried to say you had to be retirement age to get pension credit but that didn't come about till 2010, before then it was 60.

The bizarre thing was when I sold my house I wrote and told them the change in circumstances and I was moving abroad. They acknowledged the fact and said payments would stop in due course, but it took 6 months for that to happen. Tight as a ducks xxxx when needed and throwing it away when it's not.

[sandyf]

On 5/1/2024 at 11:39 AM, FritsSikkink said:

You need to know the law, don't blame others when you don't.

Only a certain mentality would think the law is always right, only a couple of weeks ago Sunak said the government has an obligation to right the wrongs of the past.

By the nature of the issue frozen pensioners have little voice in the UK, maybe if a few trans took up the case the government may take a different view.

[scottiejohn]

32 minutes ago, sandyf said:

nobody claims winter fuel allowance.

WRONG!

You do not normally need to claim if you are receiving any other pension benefits but if you are not claiming/receiving any pension benefits then you MUST claim!

Payments are usually made automatically between November and December. If you receive any other benefits, you should get your Winter Fuel Payment at the same time.

If you haven’t received your payment by mid-January, it’s best to call the office that pays your benefits.

Those who don’t receive other benefits, who did not get a payment last winter or have deferred their state pension since their last Winter Fuel Payment will need to make a claim. You can do this by calling the Winter Fuel Payment Centre on 0800 731 0160 or by filling in a form that can be downloaded from the gov.uk website.

Winter Fuel Payment – All You Need To Know – Forbes Advisor UK

Winter Fuel Payment: Check if you need to claim - GOV.UK (www.gov.uk)

Edited May 2 by scottiejohn

[sandyf]

10 minutes ago, scottiejohn said:

You do not need to claim if you are receiving any other pension benefits but if you are not claiming/receiving any pension benefits then you MUST claim!

OK  I will stand corrected on that. You are obviously aware of a situation where it would be necessary. My understanding was that anyone eligible would already be on something else and quite happy to accept that may not be the case.

The word "claiming" that was used however was inappropriate as that implies a continuing requirement. If someone did have to claim it would be once only. You should also bear in mind that the post in question had made a derogatory implication against myself but I take your point.

[scottiejohn]

37 minutes ago, sandyf said:

maybe if a few trans took up the case the government may take a different view.

You might be right with that approach!

500,000ish overseas non trans(etc)  pensioners have no voice but as you suggest get 2 of every letter in the LGBGT+ etc movement involved and watch the earth move! (no pun intended)

[csmith]

[FritsSikkink]

5 hours ago, sandyf said:

Only a certain mentality would think the law is always right, only a couple of weeks ago Sunak said the government has an obligation to right the wrongs of the past.

By the nature of the issue frozen pensioners have little voice in the UK, maybe if a few trans took up the case the government may take a different view.

I never said the law was right, I actually think it is a very wrong thing. But before you decide to move to a different country, you should do some research what things will be different when leaving your home country. Things can change after the move but not knowing a law which was in place for 70 years is your own fault.

[DonniePeverley]

Firstly they are not expats. They are immigrants. 

 

Secondly, most of these pensioners are Brexit voting, so they have to carry some consequences rather than thinking they are untouchable.