vinny41 Posted April 30 Share Posted April 30 An Israeli intelligence official confirmed the Israeli government's use of the Gaza ministry numbers to VICE News, while two officials from European intelligence services said they were widely used in official briefings internationally. https://www.vice.com/en/article/y3w4w7/israeli-intelligence-health-ministry-death-toll https://www.mekomit.co.il/הצבא-בדק-ומצא-שדיווחי-ההרוגים-במשרד-הב/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Carter icp Posted April 30 Share Posted April 30 11 minutes ago, Excogitator said: Hopefully the majority of the people of Israel, who live in a democracy, will eventually see this as the only way to lasting peace. And one can only hope that big-brother, USA, will also nudge them in the right direction. If those two factors come together, then it can happen, as I believe that Abbas and all normal and moderate Palestinians also are ready for this. OK, so we agree that Hamas are in the way of peace talks and a long lasting peace . Peace can never happen whilst Hamas and there ilk rule Gaza . There will always be war with Hamas in control . So, wouldn't you agree that its a positive element to get rid of Hamas ? Once Hamas have gone , Israel can elect someone to deal with a more peaceful Palestinian element . You should support Israel's annihilation of Hamas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Excogitator Posted April 30 Share Posted April 30 6 minutes ago, Yellowtail said: I asked what they should do now, not years down the road after the next election. What percentage of Palestinians do you think are moderates? What is to be done about Hamas and the hostages? Be realistic man, you can't just snap your fingers and make things happen. It will all take some time. The only ones with enough clout to push things forwards faster, though, is the US. One can only hope. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jingthing Posted April 30 Share Posted April 30 (edited) 10 minutes ago, Yellowtail said: What do you not like about Netanyahu? Was he not elected? He's a right wing extremist, in power too long, is responsible for dropping the defense ball before October 7, is responsible for making U.S. Israel foreign policy much more of a partisan issue, has been really bad for diaspora Jews, is much more into keeping his own power than doing long term good for his country, and has done possibly irreparable harm to Israeli public relations. Edited April 30 by Jingthing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
connda Posted April 30 Share Posted April 30 9 minutes ago, connda said: Yeah baby - we live in interesting times. And at this rate, soon to go mushroom-cloud shaped. A whole lot of powerful people want to see WWIII come to fruition on multiple fronts. And like the last world wars, everyone will get sucked right up into the vacuum unless people start finding their common humanity. Here that sound? It's the suck! Embrace The Suck kids. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yellowtail Posted April 30 Share Posted April 30 2 minutes ago, Excogitator said: Be realistic man, you can't just snap your fingers and make things happen. It will all take some time. The only ones with enough clout to push things forwards faster, though, is the US. One can only hope. What percentage of Palestinians do you think are moderates? What is to be done about Hamas and the hostages? I am a realist, it is you moaning about casualties but with no idea what Israel could do differently. That's what I thought. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jingthing Posted April 30 Share Posted April 30 14 minutes ago, connda said: There are a whole set of tropes that are being spewed by Pro-Israel stakeholders. Most are variation of the smears and tropes we heard in the late 1960s and early 1970s during the anti-Vietnam protests but upgraded and changed to spin a tale that supports only the far-right Israeli settler-occupier side, just like the smears and tropes spun a tale of the global march of Communism world-wide if Vietnam should fall 50 years ago. Vietnam fell and the much vaunted Domino Theory never materialized. The Domino Theory was propaganda and was never what the Vietnam War was about which went decade back from the US involvement. If you don't understand the nature of propaganda, and you don't study history, then you just suck it all down and wipe your mouth with your Covid mask. I'm a free-speech absolutist, and a US citizen, and a supporter of the US Constitution - including the rights of free speech, the right of assembly, and the rights of religious freedoms...including Islam. Palestinians -- whom are also original "Semites" and include Palestinian Christians, Palestinian Muslims, and Palestinian Jews too -- all have the right to exist between the Jordan River to the Mediterranean Sea. The protests have a purpose - to end genocide of Palestinian civilians which is unconscionable. Like the 1960s, a new generation has just found its political teeth and its power. I'm aghast at those who claim to support the US Constitution as they at the same time are urinating on its protections. Regardless of what people are saying on college and university campuses in the United States right now - It Is Protected Speech. And I've heard all of the arguments against protected speech back during the Vietnam War protests when the authorities tried to break up those protests too. And you'll hear them again. And like 50 year ago, they're rolling it out again. Wait for the Democratic Convention in Chicago. It will be 1968 Two-Point-Oh. And for all the same reasons. And probably ending in similar results. Yeah baby - we live in interesting times. And at this rate, soon to go mushroom-cloud shaped. A whole lot of powerful people want to see WWIII come to fruition on multiple fronts. And like the last world wars, everyone will get sucked right up into the vacuum unless people start finding their common humanity. So Trump would be better? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Excogitator Posted April 30 Share Posted April 30 2 minutes ago, Nick Carter icp said: OK, so we agree that Hamas are in the way of peace talks and a long lasting peace . Peace can never happen whilst Hamas and there ilk rule Gaza . There will always be war with Hamas in control . So, wouldn't you agree that its a positive element to get rid of Hamas ? Once Hamas have gone , Israel can elect someone to deal with a more peaceful Palestinian element . You should support Israel's annihilation of Hamas I will never support that level of violence and the mass-killing of innocents. What's going on now is the wrong approach, and will only breed more violence in an endless spiral of violence. As I said before, if the Palestinians have a real chance of their own state and a life in dignity, peace and prosperity, there is no reason for Hamas to even exist. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jingthing Posted April 30 Share Posted April 30 Just now, Excogitator said: I will never support that level of violence and the mass-killing of innocents. What's going on now is the wrong approach, and will only breed more violence in an endless spiral of violence. As I said before, if the Palestinians have a real chance of their own state and a life in dignity, peace and prosperity, there is no reason for Hamas to even exist. So simple minded. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Carter icp Posted April 30 Share Posted April 30 Just now, Excogitator said: I will never support that level of violence and the mass-killing of innocents. What's going on now is the wrong approach, and will only breed more violence in an endless spiral of violence. As I said before, if the Palestinians have a real chance of their own state and a life in dignity, peace and prosperity, there is no reason for Hamas to even exist. How would you suggest that Hamas are defeated ? Its OK saying war is wrong , but how else can hamas elimination be achieved ? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Excogitator Posted April 30 Share Posted April 30 1 minute ago, Jingthing said: So simple minded. Why? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jingthing Posted April 30 Share Posted April 30 4 minutes ago, Yellowtail said: What percentage of Palestinians do you think are moderates? What is to be done about Hamas and the hostages? I am a realist, it is you moaning about casualties but with no idea what Israel could do differently. That's what I thought. Yeah Hamas baited Israel into this. They don't care about their own casualties but they knew they could win a global PR war, and so far, it looks like they won that beyond their wildest dreams. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jingthing Posted April 30 Share Posted April 30 Just now, Excogitator said: Why? Start with the Grand Mufti of Jerusalem in Berlin and go from there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Excogitator Posted April 30 Share Posted April 30 Just now, Nick Carter icp said: How would you suggest that Hamas are defeated ? Its OK saying war is wrong , but how else can hamas elimination be achieved ? It's in what I have said countless times now: Had the Palestinians been able to live their lives with dignity and in prosperity and peace, in their own land, the Hamas would have no reason to exist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Excogitator Posted April 30 Share Posted April 30 2 minutes ago, Jingthing said: Start with the Grand Mufti of Jerusalem in Berlin and go from there. That's not even an answer.. How am I wrong in that had the Palestinians been able to live their lives with dignity and in prosperity and peace, in their own land, the Hamas would have no reason to exist? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yellowtail Posted April 30 Share Posted April 30 2 minutes ago, Excogitator said: It's in what I have said countless times now: Had the Palestinians been able to live their lives with dignity and in prosperity and peace, in their own land, the Hamas would have no reason to exist. And if my aunt would have had balls, she'd have been my uncle. But I guess since Biden's title IV debacle, she can be my uncle without them. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jingthing Posted April 30 Share Posted April 30 1 minute ago, Excogitator said: That's not even an answer.. How am I wrong in that had the Palestinians been able to live their lives with dignity and in prosperity and peace, in their own land, the Hamas would have no reason to exist? It was an answer. Palestinians don't want there to be an Israel. Period. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Carter icp Posted April 30 Share Posted April 30 1 minute ago, Excogitator said: It's in what I have said countless times now: Had the Palestinians been able to live their lives with dignity and in prosperity and peace, in their own land, the Hamas would have no reason to exist. Palestinians have had numerous opportunities to do that , they have rejected statehood on numerous occasions . Palestiaans refuse to share the land with Israel , they will only accept the whole land for themselves , that is why they have been waging war on Israel since Israel became into being . How come that you don't know the basics of this conflict ? Have you just discovered this topic ? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yellowtail Posted April 30 Share Posted April 30 3 minutes ago, Excogitator said: That's not even an answer.. How am I wrong in that had the Palestinians been able to live their lives with dignity and in prosperity and peace, in their own land, the Hamas would have no reason to exist? Again, what percentage of Palestinians do you think are moderates? What is to be done about Hamas and the hostages? What could Israel be doing differently right now. That's what I thought. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Excogitator Posted April 30 Share Posted April 30 2 minutes ago, Jingthing said: It was an answer. Palestinians don't want there to be an Israel. Period. Simple minded nonsense. You generalise and claim to speak the mind of all Palestinians, and that they all don't want there to be an Israel. Turn the clock back to the Oslo Accord in 1993, and you would see that a two state solution was what the majority wanted. Before Netanyahu and his ilk successfully sabotaged and destroyed it. Fast forward till today for the consequences.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Carter icp Posted April 30 Share Posted April 30 2 minutes ago, Excogitator said: Simple minded nonsense. You generalise and claim to speak the mind of all Palestinians, and that they all don't want there to be an Israel. Turn the clock back to the Oslo Accord in 1993, and you would see that a two state solution was what the majority wanted. Before Netanyahu and his ilk successfully sabotaged and destroyed it. Fast forward till today for the consequences.. The Oslo accord failed because both sides wanted Jerusalem as their own and neither side would conceded Jerusalem (to the other side). That is what caused the Oslo Accord to fail and Netanyahu wasn't PM then . Also may Palestinians and Israel groups opposed the Oslo accords including Hamas who attacked Israel to disrupt the [process You should do some learning before posting 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yellowtail Posted April 30 Share Posted April 30 8 minutes ago, Excogitator said: Simple minded nonsense. You generalise and claim to speak the mind of all Palestinians, and that they all don't want there to be an Israel. Turn the clock back to the Oslo Accord in 1993, and you would see that a two state solution was what the majority wanted. Before Netanyahu and his ilk successfully sabotaged and destroyed it. Fast forward till today for the consequences.. Unfortunately, we are still not able to turn the clock back, so we'll have to try something else. Again, what percentage of Palestinians do you think are moderates? What is to be done about Hamas and the hostages? What could Israel be doing differently right now. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Yellowtail Posted April 30 Popular Post Share Posted April 30 29 minutes ago, Jingthing said: So Trump would be better? I believe had Trump been reelected: We'd still have a base and an Embassy in Afghanistan. Putin would not have invaded Ukraine. Hamas would not have invaded Israel, and if they had, it would have been over by now. 1 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jingthing Posted April 30 Share Posted April 30 2 hours ago, Yellowtail said: I believe had Trump been reelected: We'd still have a base and an Embassy in Afghanistan. Putin would not have invaded Ukraine. Hamas would not have invaded Israel, and if they had, it would have been over by now. Magical thinking of a cultist. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Excogitator Posted May 1 Popular Post Share Posted May 1 (edited) 8 hours ago, Nick Carter icp said: The Oslo accord failed because both sides wanted Jerusalem as their own and neither side would conceded Jerusalem (to the other side). That is what caused the Oslo Accord to fail and Netanyahu wasn't PM then . Also may Palestinians and Israel groups opposed the Oslo accords including Hamas who attacked Israel to disrupt the [process You should do some learning before posting A pile of nonsense. That's not why it failed. It failed because Israel denied the Palestinians their own state, and denied to leave occupied land. You are both biased, uneducated and narrow-minded. It was Netanyahu and other extremists that stood most firmly in the way of any deal happening. Read about the murder of Y. Rabin to see how far those people were willing to go. You see things only from one (Israels) side, they are blameless in your eyes, no matter how much they provoke, attack and kill. And you are unable to see things objectively. Keep that up, and you will never understand much about the world you live in.. Have a good day. Edited May 1 by Excogitator 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scottiejohn Posted May 1 Share Posted May 1 (edited) 8 hours ago, Yellowtail said: I believe had Trump been reelected: We'd still have a base and an Embassy in Afghanistan. Putin would not have invaded Ukraine. Hamas would not have invaded Israel, and if they had, it would have been over by now. You obviously also believe in fairies and Santa Claus! PS; I suspect you also believe that TRUMP never ever tells any lies! Edited May 1 by scottiejohn PS added 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Carter icp Posted May 1 Share Posted May 1 2 hours ago, Excogitator said: A pile of nonsense. That's not why it failed. It failed because Israel denied the Palestinians their own state, and denied to leave occupied land. You are both biased, uneducated and narrow-minded. It was Netanyahu and other extremists that stood most firmly in the way of any deal happening. Read about the murder of Y. Rabin to see how far those people were willing to go. You see things only from one (Israels) side, they are blameless in your eyes, no matter how much they provoke, attack and kill. And you are unable to see things objectively. Keep that up, and you will never understand much about the world you live in.. Have a good day. You can read all about it here . The status of Jerusalem was one of the main points of why the Oslo accords failed . My stance is that both sides couldn't come to an agreement , you stance is that its all Israel's fault and everything's Israel's fault https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2000_Camp_David_Summit Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yellowtail Posted May 1 Share Posted May 1 2 hours ago, Excogitator said: A pile of nonsense. That's not why it failed. It failed because Israel denied the Palestinians their own state, and denied to leave occupied land. You are both biased, uneducated and narrow-minded. It was Netanyahu and other extremists that stood most firmly in the way of any deal happening. Read about the murder of Y. Rabin to see how far those people were willing to go. You see things only from one (Israels) side, they are blameless in your eyes, no matter how much they provoke, attack and kill. And you are unable to see things objectively. Keep that up, and you will never understand much about the world you live in.. Have a good day. Again, what percentage of Palestinians do you think are moderates? What is to be done about Hamas and the hostages? What could Israel be doing differently right now? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Excogitator Posted May 1 Share Posted May 1 23 minutes ago, Yellowtail said: Again, what percentage of Palestinians do you think are moderates? What is to be done about Hamas and the hostages? What could Israel be doing differently right now? Seriously? The Palestinians are victims of a genocide as we speak, and you wonder how many of them are moderates right at this moment..? You need to study the situation more thoroughly. Then you would understand that for every action there is a reaction. Nothing happens in a vacuum. The damage is already done, and can't be undone.. Violence breeds more violence, breeds more violence, in an endless cycle.. Both parties must therefore stop the violence, sit down, negotiate, and if they can't agree, then the world community must intervene.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yellowtail Posted May 1 Share Posted May 1 5 minutes ago, Excogitator said: Seriously? The Palestinians are victims of a genocide as we speak, and you wonder how many of them are moderates right at this moment..? So, we agree the percentage of moderate Palestinians is small, correct? 5 minutes ago, Excogitator said: You need to study the situation more thoroughly. Then you would understand that for every action there is a reaction. Nothing happens in a vacuum. So, we agree that what's happening now, is a reaction to what happened on 10/7, correct? 5 minutes ago, Excogitator said: The damage is already done, and can't be undone.. So, we agree we have to move on, correct? 5 minutes ago, Excogitator said: Violence breeds more violence, breeds more violence, in an endless cycle.. It's only an endless cycle until one side gives up. 5 minutes ago, Excogitator said: Both parties must therefore stop the violence, sit down, negotiate, and if they can't agree, then the world community must intervene.. And then a rainbow came down and joined them in peace and prosperity. So again, What is to be done about Hamas and the hostages? What could Israel be doing differently right now? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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