Espresso for Europeans

[Lorry]

There are many coffee threads. 

But recommendations of 3 in 1, coffee from Macro or a supermarket is not what I am looking for.

If someone comes from a coffee drinking nation, used to espresso, what can I offer him?

 

Illy is good,  Starbucks espresso (NOT any lattecino) is good. 

Lavazza and Casino (from BigC) are acceptable for myself, but not really good (too acid).

 

All of these are imported, 100% arabica (that's a must) and relatively expensive in Thailand. Some Illy brands are not sold in Thailand. 

I once had espresso from Laos which was of comparable quality (it didn't survive covid).

Can anybody, preferably from a nation where these kinds of coffee are common, recommend one of the smallish Thai or Lao coffee roasters that produce espresso of comparable quality as the mentioned brands?

 

[scubascuba3]

Lazada, trial and error buying different beans until you find the perfect one. I currently blend 100% Arabica with Vietnam Robusta

[Korat Kiwi]

I wouldn't say I'm a coffee snob but I don't like instant. 

 

For value I buy Sole cafe beans from Makro. 380 baht for the 1kg bag. 

 

They also have pre-ground coffee from the same brand, but I prefer to grind my own. 

 

I've tried others that were frankly just so bitter it was nasty. 

 

[OneMoreFarang]

IMHO the grinder and espresso machine are very important.

With a bad grinder and/or machine, don't expect a good end result.

 

Unfortunately, quality equipment is real expensive.

For me that is a reason to drink my espresso outside in few selected places with quality coffee and quality equipment and baristas who know how to use it.

 

Enjoy! He has lots of good videos and he knows what he is talking about. 

 

[scubascuba3]

13 minutes ago, OneMoreFarang said:

IMHO the grinder and espresso machine are very important.

With a bad grinder and/or machine, don't expect a good end result.

 

Grinders are over rated, i have a 250 baht Lazada one and it works very well, you have to control the grind by how many seconds you use it

[Korat Kiwi]

Hillkoff in Chiang Mai had a huge retail shop.  Both for machines and expendibles.  Amazing selection of beans. 

 

A breville BES878 is a great starter machine at around 31500 baht but they have machines all the way upto about 200k.   I like coffee but not that much! 

 

 

[Korat Kiwi]

I should have bought my machine over from NZ.  2nd hand but fully refurbished cost 17500 baht. 

 

But big to fit in my bag tho. Maybe next visit I'll box it up. 

 

I find a lot of coffee they serve here is never hot enough for my taste.  It's like drinking lukewarm beer! 

 

Our current breville machine is about 10yrs old but still going strong, pulls a good shot and steams up milk ok. 

 

 

[OneMoreFarang]

15 minutes ago, scubascuba3 said:

Grinders are over rated, i have a 250 baht Lazada one and it works very well, you have to control the grind by how many seconds you use it

Maybe have a look at the video above, and maybe that will change your mind.

According to him, and he is a world barista champion, a good grinder is more important than the machine.

[Mavideol]

Bon Cafe where it's available and their espresso Segafredo capsules are good, have their machine and capsules for the past 10 years

[zhounan]

Italian here. 

Could be surprising, but Café Amazon's Espresso is one of the best.

And stay away from those thousands fancy cafeteria, with apparently professionals baristas. Their Espresso is literally undrinkable.

 

p.s. I drink 3-4 espresso/day since I was young.

[scubascuba3]

9 minutes ago, zhounan said:

Italian here. 

Could be surprising, but Café Amazon's Espresso is one of the best.

And stay away from those thousands fancy cafeteria, with apparently professionals baristas. Their Espresso is literally undrinkable.

 

p.s. I drink 3-4 espresso/day since I was young.

You only drink espresso?  they are just too small for me, i like the drink to last a little longer

[richard_smith237]

Only for the purposes of 'qualification' to respond to this thread.....  I have...

 

- Breville Barista Pro - Espresso Machine (most of the time).

- Baietti Moka Pot (when I fancy) 

- French Press (at work)

- Turkish coffee Pot (when I fancy it)

- Nespresso Vertuo (quick, convenient and decent coffee)

- Wacaco Picopresso Portable Espresso Maker (for travelling)

 

Coffee - I get from Coffee Culture Asia (based in Phuket) - they roast to order, or rather, they always have freshly roasted coffee.

https://coffeeculture.asia/coffee-category/roasted-coffee-beans-thailand/arabica-coffee/#

They deliver within a few days... But may often be waiting for a fresh batch .

 

I personally go for: -

- Khun Chang Khian (which is a Thai Arabica bean) - 900 baht per Kilo.

- Premium Arabica - 860 baht per Kilo.

 

- Roast level to order... and can order beans or specify grind size.

- I order in 500gm packs to keep the coffee fresh for a month (1.5 kgs per month).

 

 

- In my expresso Machine - I brew a 2:1 ratio (30 second, 18 gms espresso grind >> 36 gms espresso output).... 

- When I use different beans, I have to dial in the machine again.

 

 

Regarding grinder, thats the most important part - IMO its better to have the roaster grind the coffee for you than to use a cheap grinder.

I'll order beans for the espresso machine and ground to specification for the 'others'... 

 

 

 

Coffee snobbery ??? - some may levy that accusation, its just like Wine & Whisky... some get it, some don't. 

I just like coffee... and really enjoy a couple of cups in the morning. 

 

I'll also commonly lengthen the coffee with silky steamed milk (expresso machine want).... Or, use an Aerocino (coffee frother) - but that doesn't make quite as silky textured milk to add to make a smooth latte.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited May 4 by richard_smith237

[richard_smith237]

44 minutes ago, scubascuba3 said:

You only drink espresso?  they are just too small for me, i like the drink to last a little longer

 

 

Sometimes its nice to take a 'clean sharp hit of expresso'...    But, I agree, I like the coffee to last a little longer,  and expresso can be lengthened with boiled water to make a long black (not really my think)... or with milk (tightly frothed with a 'steam wand') to make a latte (which I do like)... 

 

 

[scottiejohn]

1 hour ago, Korat Kiwi said:

I find a lot of coffee they serve here is never hot enough for my taste.  It's like drinking lukewarm beer! 

Stick the cup in the microwave!

Problem solved for minimum cost!

[scubascuba3]

22 minutes ago, richard_smith237 said:

Only for the purposes of 'qualification' to respond to this thread.....  I have...

 

- Breville Barista Pro - Espresso Machine (most of the time).

- Baietti Moka Pot (when I fancy) 

- French Press (at work)

- Turkish coffee Pot (when I fancy it)

- Nespresso Vertuo (quick, convenient and decent coffee)

- Wacaco Picopresso Portable Espresso Maker (for travelling)

 

Coffee - I get from Coffee Culture Asia (based in Phuket) - they roast to order, or rather, they always have freshly roasted coffee.

https://coffeeculture.asia/coffee-category/roasted-coffee-beans-thailand/arabica-coffee/#

They deliver within a few days... But may often be waiting for a fresh batch .

 

I personally go for: -

- Khun Chang Khian (which is a Thai Arabica bean) - 900 baht per Kilo.

- Premium Arabica - 860 baht per Kilo.

 

- Roast level to order... and can order beans or specify grind size.

- I order in 500gm packs to keep the coffee fresh for a month (1.5 kgs per month).

 

 

- In my expresso Machine - I brew a 2:1 ratio (30 second, 18 gms espresso grind >> 36 gms espresso output).... 

- When I use different beans, I have to dial in the machine again.

 

 

Regarding grinder, thats the most important part - IMO its better to have the roaster grind the coffee for you than to use a cheap grinder.

I'll order beans for the espresso machine and ground to specification for the 'others'... 

 

 

 

Coffee snobbery ??? - some may levy that accusation, its just like Wine & Whisky... some get it, some don't. 

I just like coffee... and really enjoy a couple of cups in the morning. 

 

I'll also commonly lengthen the coffee with silky steamed milk (expresso machine want).... Or, use an Aerocino (coffee frother) - but that doesn't make quite as silky textured milk to add to make a smooth latte.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

One of the coffee shops i go to has finally perfected the latte after many years, quite the skill to get it perfect, all the other shops are good but not perfect yet. It's about location too and who with and decent chat 

[richard_smith237]

5 minutes ago, scubascuba3 said:

 

One of the coffee shops i go to has finally perfected the latte after many years, quite the skill to get it perfect, all the other shops are good but not perfect yet. It's about location too and who with and decent chat 

 

Indeed... it takes some practice to get the espresso right in the first place... 

 

... From dialling in the machine for the bean correctly... to even distribution of the coffee... (without clumps)...    to getting a consistent 'tamp' each time... 

 

And now the latest 'idea' is to spray the beans with a bit of water to release any static to minimise clumping... and to add a 'filter disk' after tamping to even the water distribution into the shower head... 

 

 

I'm sometimes lazy and don't bother distributing properly and tamp poorly...  and then get an uneven extraction (to fast or too slow)...  it sometimes makes the coffee a little bitter...   Thats where the Nespresso voluto comes in - decent coffee consistent results at a push of a button...    But, I still much prefer it when I pull a good shot myself. 

 

 

 

[Korat Kiwi]

4 hours ago, scottiejohn said:

Stick the cup in the microwave!

Problem solved for minimum cost!

Never... That is sacrilege. 

 

Stick to your instant coffee with that carry on.... Unless you mean only to heat up the cup/mug. 

 

I would never use a microwave to heat up proper (espresso) coffee. 

[richard_smith237]

47 minutes ago, Korat Kiwi said:

Never... That is sacrilege. 

 

Stick to your instant coffee with that carry on.... Unless you mean only to heat up the cup/mug. 

 

I would never use a microwave to heat up proper (espresso) coffee. 

 

I never have... but just curious... why ?

 

I don't mean re-heating cold coffee that has lost its flavours and gone somwhat flat and stale.

 

But, what about heating up a coffee that has dropped below hot... 'bumping it up' in the micrwave for 20 seconds, is it that bad ?

 

 

[CM4Me]

7 hours ago, Korat Kiwi said:

 

I find a lot of coffee they serve here is never hot enough for my taste.  It's like drinking lukewarm beer! 

 

I agree with you 100%

 

At any cafe / coffee shop when one orders tea they make it with boiling water, as it should be. And as Kiwi said coffee they serve here is never hot enough.

 

So now whenever I order a coffee, I ask for it to be "ron mark mark", and it usually is 🙂 

[scubascuba3]

4 hours ago, CM4Me said:

I agree with you 100%

 

At any cafe / coffee shop when one orders tea they make it with boiling water, as it should be. And as Kiwi said coffee they serve here is never hot enough.

 

So now whenever I order a coffee, I ask for it to be "ron mark mark", and it usually is 🙂 

Temperature varies with the shop and server, for independent shops i tell them and they correct for next time, some don't drink coffee so they don't know, plus no thermometer used unless Starbucks

[Lorry]

23 hours ago, zhounan said:

Italian here. 

Could be surprising, but Café Amazon's Espresso is one of the best.

And stay away from those thousands fancy cafeteria, with apparently professionals baristas. Their Espresso is literally undrinkable.

 

p.s. I drink 3-4 espresso/day since I was young.

I tried it and you are right 

Surprising indeed

Thx

 

BTW they sell packaged coffee too, but didn't know where.  They sent me to another branch where staff was incredibly rude (I am seriously thinking of complaining to headquarter, we are in Bangkok after all, not in Pattaya or mainland China) and didn't know anything either. 

Any idea where to buy it?

 

https://www.cafe-amazon.com/index.aspx?Lang=EN&PageID=1

Edited May 5 by Lorry

[Prubangboy]

On 5/4/2024 at 1:04 PM, Lorry said:

 

I once had espresso from Laos which was of comparable quality (it didn't survive covid).

 

 

True enough. Last June, I went looking for Lao coffee in Vientiane and found none.

[mfd101]

Hard to find the right mix of arabica (90%) and robusta (10%) here. Usually I make do with 100% arabica as it's mostly all that's on offer.

 

Minimex machine. We have 3 double shots each daily - on getting out of bed, after brunch, after dinner.

[AlexPattaya]

There are No Good Arabica Beans grown here ! Robusta is pretty good here just like in Vietnam as an example! Exported 100% Arabica Beans are very expensive and take too much time to get here from overseas! Starbucks has Arabica Beans at times ( Whole Beans and Ground at times ) but they are 50% more expensive than home! It is what it is! As far as the Coffee Machines are concerned, there are plenty high quality ones but again , they are very expensive and are imported from overseas! 

[newbee2022]

On 5/4/2024 at 1:04 PM, Lorry said:

There are many coffee threads. 

But recommendations of 3 in 1, coffee from Macro or a supermarket is not what I am looking for.

If someone comes from a coffee drinking nation, used to espresso, what can I offer him?

 

Illy is good,  Starbucks espresso (NOT any lattecino) is good. 

Lavazza and Casino (from BigC) are acceptable for myself, but not really good (too acid).

 

All of these are imported, 100% arabica (that's a must) and relatively expensive in Thailand. Some Illy brands are not sold in Thailand. 

I once had espresso from Laos which was of comparable quality (it didn't survive covid).

Can anybody, preferably from a nation where these kinds of coffee are common, recommend one of the smallish Thai or Lao coffee roasters that produce espresso of comparable quality as the mentioned brands?

 

The best coffee for me comes from Vietnam. Buy it from Lazada, have a coffee machine and that's it. 🙏

[scubascuba3]

1 hour ago, mfd101 said:

Hard to find the right mix of arabica (90%) and robusta (10%) here. Usually I make do with 100% arabica as it's mostly all that's on offer.

 

Minimex machine. We have 3 double shots each daily - on getting out of bed, after brunch, after dinner.

Just mix it yourself, that's what i do, two thirds Arabica, 1 third Vietnam, it's all trial and error

[scorecard]

On 5/4/2024 at 5:09 PM, scubascuba3 said:

You only drink espresso?  they are just too small for me, i like the drink to last a little longer

 

15 years ago I worked in Japan with a very clever oil processing engineer from California. In his career in many countries he had achieved much better than average productivity results from crude oil originating from many areas of the world. And he did the same in the refineries in 2 locations in Japan. 

 

He brought with him 2 full size Starbucks Americano machines along with a large supply of the very big white filter papers and Starbucks ground coffee (he was convinced that Starbucks was the best thing ever since sliced bread and he mentioned buying the Americana machines, in California) was not very expensive and the papers / coffer bought in bulk from Tokyo also not expensive).

 

One Americano machine on an additional desk alongside him in the refinery operations office and one at his apartment in Osaka.

 

Both the American guy and his wife (very beautiful Mexican psychiatry professor / researcher, author of many Mexican cook books) drank 50 (fifty) big mugs of coffee, black, no sugar, every day.

 

They both claimed the large amount of coffee (caffeine) they consumed daily had no effect on their health / sleep). 

 

The American CEO (from Texas) had concerns about the engineer's health and insisted he get a thorough health check with emphasis on the condition of his heart. Result: all OK, no signs of any heart issues. He was about 47 / 48 years old.

 

But at 55 years old the engineer had a massive heart attack and died, no warning. I don't know the later history of his Mexican wife.

 

 

[scorecard]

On 5/4/2024 at 11:45 PM, richard_smith237 said:

 

I never have... but just curious... why ?

 

I don't mean re-heating cold coffee that has lost its flavours and gone somwhat flat and stale.

 

But, what about heating up a coffee that has dropped below hot... 'bumping it up' in the micrwave for 20 seconds, is it that bad ?

 

 

I agree, for me reheating in a microwave changes the taste and for me it brings a somewhat unpleasant taste.

[scubascuba3]

3 minutes ago, scorecard said:

 

15 years ago I worked in Japan with a very clever oil processing engineer from California. In his career in many countries he had achieved much better than average productivity results from crude oil originating from many areas of the world. And he did the same in the refineries in 2 locations in Japan. 

 

He brought with him 2 full size Starbucks Americano machines along with a large supply of the very big white filter papers and Starbucks ground coffee (he was convinced that Starbucks was the best thing ever since sliced bread and he mentioned buying the Americana machines, in California) was not very expensive and the papers / coffer bought in bulk from Tokyo also not expensive).

 

One Americano machine on an additional desk alongside him in the refinery operations office and one at his apartment in Osaka.

 

Both the American guy and his wife (very beautiful Mexican psychiatry professor / researcher, author of many Mexican cook books) drank 50 (fifty) big mugs of coffee, black, no sugar, every day.

 

They both claimed the large amount of coffee (caffeine) they consumed daily had no effect on their health / sleep). 

 

The American CEO (from Texas) had concerns about the engineer's health and insisted he get a thorough health check with emphasis on the condition of his heart. Result: all OK, no signs of any heart issues. He was about 47 / 48 years old.

 

But at 55 years old the engineer had a massive heart attack and died, no warning. I don't know the later history of his Mexican wife.

 

 

Caffeine increases cortisol, stress hormone, sugar the opposite

[TigerandDog]

I grind my own beans and do NOT buy off the shelf from a supermarket as you don't know how long the beans have been sitting there, even more so if imported beans. I use Thai roasted beans (Doi Chang grown) which I buy from my local coffee shop as I know the beans he has have a high turnover rate which means they will be reasonably fresh for grinding. I blend my beans as follows 1/3 Arabica medium roast, 1/3 Arabica dark roast and 1/3 Robusta dark roast.