No handbags mate. The man has his opinion, I have mine. The beauty of Bedlam is both can be aired without the grief that comes from diverse opinions in other forums.

No handbags mate. The man has his opinion, I have mine. The beauty of Bedlam is both can be aired without the grief that comes from diverse opinions in other forums.

...and so say all of us, and so say all of us...

Let everyone decide for themselves what drugs they want to take...it is their body and their life after all.

I do not fully agree with that chownah. When someone is feeling depressed /emotionally unstable /distressed etc, they are often not in their 'right mind' so to speak, so need proper care and guidance.

Absolutely. Although i have no personal experience of actually taking drugs. I remember when my dad died, he was 39 and my mum 38. I was 18 and in the Royal Navy at the time.

To cope with my fathers death, the doctor put my mum on Valium. I came home on leave again about 4 months later and the change in my mum was the most aweful sight i can remember. She was gaunt, unstable and well you get the picture. She was hooked and it took a further 4 years to wean her off the Valium.

Now, i'm no doctor but i'm sure she would have got over the grieving process alot quicker, without the Valium.

So, are you saying that she wanted to take the valium in the first place? Are you saying that she should not have been allowed to take the valium in the first place?....that valium should be illegal to use in the way the doctor prescribed it for her? If it was ok for her to take valium in the first place (since I don't know if this is the case this is a hypothetical) then at what point should it have become not ok for her to continue?...and who should have made her stop?...the law...the doctor...you....someone else?

Also, a more general comment not related to anyone in particular: Addiction is a problem that people have because of their mental makeup....addiction is not a problem for most people. Many people don't believe this but if you look at the number of people who develop an addiction problem from taking prescription morphine while under a physicians care you will find that it is very small. Most people can take narcotics and not develop an addiction problem because they do not have a predisposed mental makeup. I'm not saying that they have a better mental makup or that addicts have a worse mental makeup...I'm only saying there is a difference in regard to one particular thing...and that is a predisposition to drug addiction.

Also, It is my view that if someone is in a mental condition that they can not make decisions for themselves and this has been formally determined in some way, then someone should be appointed as their guardian and that guardian should make the decisions about what drugs that person should take. Unless this is done then the individual should decide for themselves...in my view.

Chownah

A mental make-up? Chownah you are so far off base. My friend is taking methadone. He has been taking this to kick stronger stuff. He has meet a wonderful women, is back in school and wants a family, however he is still hooked on methadone. It doesn't get him high, his body just tears itself part until it gets methadone. He would be sick for weeks maybe even a couple months of more if he tried to kick it. He wants away from drugs, he is sorry he has ever done them. Now, are you going to say he has the wrong 'mental make-up'? When I hear people say things liek what you have said I know not to listen, for they have not seen nor been to those terrifying places addicition takes you.

Let everyone decide for themselves what drugs they want to take...it is their body and their life after all.

I do not fully agree with that chownah. When someone is feeling depressed /emotionally unstable /distressed etc, they are often not in their 'right mind' so to speak, so need proper care and guidance.

Absolutely. Although i have no personal experience of actually taking drugs. I remember when my dad died, he was 39 and my mum 38. I was 18 and in the Royal Navy at the time.

To cope with my fathers death, the doctor put my mum on Valium. I came home on leave again about 4 months later and the change in my mum was the most aweful sight i can remember. She was gaunt, unstable and well you get the picture. She was hooked and it took a further 4 years to wean her off the Valium.

Now, i'm no doctor but i'm sure she would have got over the grieving process alot quicker, without the Valium.

So, are you saying that she wanted to take the valium in the first place? Are you saying that she should not have been allowed to take the valium in the first place?....that valium should be illegal to use in the way the doctor prescribed it for her? If it was ok for her to take valium in the first place (since I don't know if this is the case this is a hypothetical) then at what point should it have become not ok for her to continue?...and who should have made her stop?...the law...the doctor...you....someone else?

Also, a more general comment not related to anyone in particular: Addiction is a problem that people have because of their mental makeup....addiction is not a problem for most people. Many people don't believe this but if you look at the number of people who develop an addiction problem from taking prescription morphine while under a physicians care you will find that it is very small. Most people can take narcotics and not develop an addiction problem because they do not have a predisposed mental makeup. I'm not saying that they have a better mental makup or that addicts have a worse mental makeup...I'm only saying there is a difference in regard to one particular thing...and that is a predisposition to drug addiction.

Also, It is my view that if someone is in a mental condition that they can not make decisions for themselves and this has been formally determined in some way, then someone should be appointed as their guardian and that guardian should make the decisions about what drugs that person should take. Unless this is done then the individual should decide for themselves...in my view.

Chownah

A mental make-up? Chownah you are so far off base. My friend is taking methadone. He has been taking this to kick stronger stuff. He has meet a wonderful women, is back in school and wants a family, however he is still hooked on methadone. It doesn't get him high, his body just tears itself part until it gets methadone. He would be sick for weeks maybe even a couple months of more if he tried to kick it. He wants away from drugs, he is sorry he has ever done them. Now, are you going to say he has the wrong 'mental make-up'? When I hear people say things liek what you have said I know not to listen, for they have not seen nor been to those terrifying places addicition takes you.

This is what I posted and I think its quite to the point, "I'm not saying that they have a better mental makup or that addicts have a worse mental makeup...I'm only saying there is a difference in regard to one particular thing...and that is a predisposition to drug addiction." Your friend seems to have a prediposition to addiction.....can't stop taking them so it seems.....I think that mental makeup has alot to do with predisposition to addiction and so do alot of other people; its not some new idea that I've cooked up on my own. Look at how your friend got addicted in the first place and what was going on in his life and you will probably get a hint about this predisposition. Lots and lots and lots of people take addictive drugs and don't get addicted...and lot and lots and lots of people get addicted to drugs and then end that addiction. It seems that people whose lives are empty are predisposed to addiction and people who have something in life more important than drugs seem to avoid addiction and end an addiction if it should happen.

Your friend takes whatever drugs your friend wants it seems. Your friend could stop taking drugs if your friend really wanted to I'm sure. People who say that people can not end their drug usage are dangerous enablers and to a great extent are a major cause of chronic drug use. I might point out that drug users are the biggest pool of enablers who try to claim that an addict can not stop taking drugs....it helps them to avoid taking responsibility for their lives by claiming that thier condition is beyond their control....they are wrong.

Chownah

There are indeed some people strong enough to end their own addiction. But it is an amazingly single minded and narrow view point to consider that everyone is capable of the same mental strength as yourself.

I am quite envious of your ability to believe in your own infallibility. It must help in your daily life.

My penny's worth.

For every 1 person it helps there is another 100 who are not being helped at all , but are just deferring life, getting on with it and dealing with the downs as well as the ups.

A haze is just that, a distortion of reality. A head in the sand has to come out evenually and only then do they begin to see clearly however stark it is, it's real and thats better than an illusion that is not.

I have known many dozens of people over the years on various prescribed sedative drugs and I can say only 1 IMO was really helped by them, the rest did'nt start to improve till they stopped and got on with life.

Everyone gets traumas in life getting over it is also part of that life, as hard as it may seem at that moment.

Time does heal and the body and mind will adapt in most situations given time.

There are exceptions sure but sedatives are given out like smarties atm and I only hope there will come a time when the trend is reversed.

The most important medicine I have found is friends and family.

I have gotten used to using a particular (globally illegal) drug in the past.

I was fully aware of what I was doing.

I was also fully aware of the fact that my deteriorating life could improve by stopping the usage.

I could preach to any and everybody about how to go about it.

But I couldn't stop.

It got the best of me.

Until I moved away from the country where I was - not just the location, but the country and in fact entire region - I was unable to stop.

Although I made a token gesture to stop in my last few weeks, I only succeeded this by staying in bed and smoking a lot of weed.

But on my last weekend in Guatemala, I bought 5 ounces of nearly pure coke and in the space of 48 hours had a complete blow out. And I loved it.

I knew what I was doing.

I knew that I could be better without it. I'd never taken it before living there. Not in LOS, not in 10 years in europe.

But I did it anyway.

song baht.

There are indeed some people strong enough to end their own addiction. But it is an amazingly single minded and narrow view point to consider that everyone is capable of the same mental strength as yourself.

I am quite envious of your ability to believe in your own infallibility. It must help in your daily life.

My view is that it is my awareness of my fallibility that helps me to learn in life....I find that I learn more when I realise that I don't know....

Why focus on "some people strong enough to end their own addiction"? In reality the overwhelming majority of people on earth are strong enough to end their addiction. The real problem is getting people to see their addictions...like sweet fatty foods, television and the internet, alcohol, shopping, reading, music, watching professional sports, etc.

Let everyone decide for themselves what drugs they want to take...it is their body and their life after all.

I do not fully agree with that chownah. When someone is feeling depressed /emotionally unstable /distressed etc, they are often not in their 'right mind' so to speak, so need proper care and guidance.

Absolutely. Although i have no personal experience of actually taking drugs. I remember when my dad died, he was 39 and my mum 38. I was 18 and in the Royal Navy at the time.

To cope with my fathers death, the doctor put my mum on Valium. I came home on leave again about 4 months later and the change in my mum was the most aweful sight i can remember. She was gaunt, unstable and well you get the picture. She was hooked and it took a further 4 years to wean her off the Valium.

Now, i'm no doctor but i'm sure she would have got over the grieving process alot quicker, without the Valium.

So, are you saying that she wanted to take the valium in the first place? Are you saying that she should not have been allowed to take the valium in the first place?....that valium should be illegal to use in the way the doctor prescribed it for her? If it was ok for her to take valium in the first place (since I don't know if this is the case this is a hypothetical) then at what point should it have become not ok for her to continue?...and who should have made her stop?...the law...the doctor...you....someone else?

Also, a more general comment not related to anyone in particular: Addiction is a problem that people have because of their mental makeup....addiction is not a problem for most people. Many people don't believe this but if you look at the number of people who develop an addiction problem from taking prescription morphine while under a physicians care you will find that it is very small. Most people can take narcotics and not develop an addiction problem because they do not have a predisposed mental makeup. I'm not saying that they have a better mental makup or that addicts have a worse mental makeup...I'm only saying there is a difference in regard to one particular thing...and that is a predisposition to drug addiction.

Also, It is my view that if someone is in a mental condition that they can not make decisions for themselves and this has been formally determined in some way, then someone should be appointed as their guardian and that guardian should make the decisions about what drugs that person should take. Unless this is done then the individual should decide for themselves...in my view.

Chownah

A mental make-up? Chownah you are so far off base. My friend is taking methadone. He has been taking this to kick stronger stuff. He has meet a wonderful women, is back in school and wants a family, however he is still hooked on methadone. It doesn't get him high, his body just tears itself part until it gets methadone. He would be sick for weeks maybe even a couple months of more if he tried to kick it. He wants away from drugs, he is sorry he has ever done them. Now, are you going to say he has the wrong 'mental make-up'? When I hear people say things liek what you have said I know not to listen, for they have not seen nor been to those terrifying places addicition takes you.

This is what I posted and I think its quite to the point, "I'm not saying that they have a better mental makup or that addicts have a worse mental makeup...I'm only saying there is a difference in regard to one particular thing...and that is a predisposition to drug addiction." Your friend seems to have a prediposition to addiction.....can't stop taking them so it seems.....I think that mental makeup has alot to do with predisposition to addiction and so do alot of other people; its not some new idea that I've cooked up on my own. Look at how your friend got addicted in the first place and what was going on in his life and you will probably get a hint about this predisposition. Lots and lots and lots of people take addictive drugs and don't get addicted...and lot and lots and lots of people get addicted to drugs and then end that addiction. It seems that people whose lives are empty are predisposed to addiction and people who have something in life more important than drugs seem to avoid addiction and end an addiction if it should happen.

Your friend takes whatever drugs your friend wants it seems. Your friend could stop taking drugs if your friend really wanted to I'm sure. People who say that people can not end their drug usage are dangerous enablers and to a great extent are a major cause of chronic drug use. I might point out that drug users are the biggest pool of enablers who try to claim that an addict can not stop taking drugs....it helps them to avoid taking responsibility for their lives by claiming that thier condition is beyond their control....they are wrong.

Chownah

Fully agree with you.

Take away drugs and one can still be addicted to gambling, internet, tv games, women.....

For me I have easy access to illegal drugs but I do not get addicted to them!

There are indeed some people strong enough to end their own addiction. But it is an amazingly single minded and narrow view point to consider that everyone is capable of the same mental strength as yourself.

I am quite envious of your ability to believe in your own infallibility. It must help in your daily life.

Does that mean that those people's lives should be controlled by others?

Let everyone decide for themselves what drugs they want to take...it is their body and their life after all.

I do not fully agree with that chownah. When someone is feeling depressed /emotionally unstable /distressed etc, they are often not in their 'right mind' so to speak, so need proper care and guidance.

Absolutely. Although i have no personal experience of actually taking drugs. I remember when my dad died, he was 39 and my mum 38. I was 18 and in the Royal Navy at the time.

To cope with my fathers death, the doctor put my mum on Valium. I came home on leave again about 4 months later and the change in my mum was the most aweful sight i can remember. She was gaunt, unstable and well you get the picture. She was hooked and it took a further 4 years to wean her off the Valium.

Now, i'm no doctor but i'm sure she would have got over the grieving process alot quicker, without the Valium.

So, are you saying that she wanted to take the valium in the first place? Are you saying that she should not have been allowed to take the valium in the first place?....that valium should be illegal to use in the way the doctor prescribed it for her? If it was ok for her to take valium in the first place (since I don't know if this is the case this is a hypothetical) then at what point should it have become not ok for her to continue?...and who should have made her stop?...the law...the doctor...you....someone else?

Also, a more general comment not related to anyone in particular: Addiction is a problem that people have because of their mental makeup....addiction is not a problem for most people. Many people don't believe this but if you look at the number of people who develop an addiction problem from taking prescription morphine while under a physicians care you will find that it is very small. Most people can take narcotics and not develop an addiction problem because they do not have a predisposed mental makeup. I'm not saying that they have a better mental makup or that addicts have a worse mental makeup...I'm only saying there is a difference in regard to one particular thing...and that is a predisposition to drug addiction.

Also, It is my view that if someone is in a mental condition that they can not make decisions for themselves and this has been formally determined in some way, then someone should be appointed as their guardian and that guardian should make the decisions about what drugs that person should take. Unless this is done then the individual should decide for themselves...in my view.

Chownah

A mental make-up? Chownah you are so far off base. My friend is taking methadone. He has been taking this to kick stronger stuff. He has meet a wonderful women, is back in school and wants a family, however he is still hooked on methadone. It doesn't get him high, his body just tears itself part until it gets methadone. He would be sick for weeks maybe even a couple months of more if he tried to kick it. He wants away from drugs, he is sorry he has ever done them. Now, are you going to say he has the wrong 'mental make-up'? When I hear people say things liek what you have said I know not to listen, for they have not seen nor been to those terrifying places addicition takes you.

This is what I posted and I think its quite to the point, "I'm not saying that they have a better mental makup or that addicts have a worse mental makeup...I'm only saying there is a difference in regard to one particular thing...and that is a predisposition to drug addiction." Your friend seems to have a prediposition to addiction.....can't stop taking them so it seems.....I think that mental makeup has alot to do with predisposition to addiction and so do alot of other people; its not some new idea that I've cooked up on my own. Look at how your friend got addicted in the first place and what was going on in his life and you will probably get a hint about this predisposition. Lots and lots and lots of people take addictive drugs and don't get addicted...and lot and lots and lots of people get addicted to drugs and then end that addiction. It seems that people whose lives are empty are predisposed to addiction and people who have something in life more important than drugs seem to avoid addiction and end an addiction if it should happen.

Your friend takes whatever drugs your friend wants it seems. Your friend could stop taking drugs if your friend really wanted to I'm sure. People who say that people can not end their drug usage are dangerous enablers and to a great extent are a major cause of chronic drug use. I might point out that drug users are the biggest pool of enablers who try to claim that an addict can not stop taking drugs....it helps them to avoid taking responsibility for their lives by claiming that thier condition is beyond their control....they are wrong.

Chownah

Okay, let me be more clear. Methadone does not feel good, it does not get anyone high. It's a government sponsered drug that is supposed to helpl kick worse habits. If my friends stops taking Methadone his body will violently revolt. He will throw up, his every muscle will cramp up, he won't be able to see straight, so no. He takes the methadone so that these things don't happen to him, so he can keep and job and not scare the crap outta the nice normal people.

He wants off of the stuff, yet the clinic keeps him on it and does not have a couple months to devote to getting it out of his system as he has school and a job and bills to pay. Never ending cycle, and believe me, he doesn't want to be there.

So, I am confused. Are you saying that even though he wants to be clean he can't because of his mental make-up, or something else?

Let everyone decide for themselves what drugs they want to take...it is their body and their life after all.

I do not fully agree with that chownah. When someone is feeling depressed /emotionally unstable /distressed etc, they are often not in their 'right mind' so to speak, so need proper care and guidance.

Absolutely. Although i have no personal experience of actually taking drugs. I remember when my dad died, he was 39 and my mum 38. I was 18 and in the Royal Navy at the time.

To cope with my fathers death, the doctor put my mum on Valium. I came home on leave again about 4 months later and the change in my mum was the most aweful sight i can remember. She was gaunt, unstable and well you get the picture. She was hooked and it took a further 4 years to wean her off the Valium.

Now, i'm no doctor but i'm sure she would have got over the grieving process alot quicker, without the Valium.

So, are you saying that she wanted to take the valium in the first place? Are you saying that she should not have been allowed to take the valium in the first place?....that valium should be illegal to use in the way the doctor prescribed it for her? If it was ok for her to take valium in the first place (since I don't know if this is the case this is a hypothetical) then at what point should it have become not ok for her to continue?...and who should have made her stop?...the law...the doctor...you....someone else?

Also, a more general comment not related to anyone in particular: Addiction is a problem that people have because of their mental makeup....addiction is not a problem for most people. Many people don't believe this but if you look at the number of people who develop an addiction problem from taking prescription morphine while under a physicians care you will find that it is very small. Most people can take narcotics and not develop an addiction problem because they do not have a predisposed mental makeup. I'm not saying that they have a better mental makup or that addicts have a worse mental makeup...I'm only saying there is a difference in regard to one particular thing...and that is a predisposition to drug addiction.

Also, It is my view that if someone is in a mental condition that they can not make decisions for themselves and this has been formally determined in some way, then someone should be appointed as their guardian and that guardian should make the decisions about what drugs that person should take. Unless this is done then the individual should decide for themselves...in my view.

Chownah

A mental make-up? Chownah you are so far off base. My friend is taking methadone. He has been taking this to kick stronger stuff. He has meet a wonderful women, is back in school and wants a family, however he is still hooked on methadone. It doesn't get him high, his body just tears itself part until it gets methadone. He would be sick for weeks maybe even a couple months of more if he tried to kick it. He wants away from drugs, he is sorry he has ever done them. Now, are you going to say he has the wrong 'mental make-up'? When I hear people say things liek what you have said I know not to listen, for they have not seen nor been to those terrifying places addicition takes you.

This is what I posted and I think its quite to the point, "I'm not saying that they have a better mental makup or that addicts have a worse mental makeup...I'm only saying there is a difference in regard to one particular thing...and that is a predisposition to drug addiction." Your friend seems to have a prediposition to addiction.....can't stop taking them so it seems.....I think that mental makeup has alot to do with predisposition to addiction and so do alot of other people; its not some new idea that I've cooked up on my own. Look at how your friend got addicted in the first place and what was going on in his life and you will probably get a hint about this predisposition. Lots and lots and lots of people take addictive drugs and don't get addicted...and lot and lots and lots of people get addicted to drugs and then end that addiction. It seems that people whose lives are empty are predisposed to addiction and people who have something in life more important than drugs seem to avoid addiction and end an addiction if it should happen.

Your friend takes whatever drugs your friend wants it seems. Your friend could stop taking drugs if your friend really wanted to I'm sure. People who say that people can not end their drug usage are dangerous enablers and to a great extent are a major cause of chronic drug use. I might point out that drug users are the biggest pool of enablers who try to claim that an addict can not stop taking drugs....it helps them to avoid taking responsibility for their lives by claiming that thier condition is beyond their control....they are wrong.

Chownah

Okay, let me be more clear. Methadone does not feel good, it does not get anyone high. It's a government sponsered drug that is supposed to helpl kick worse habits. If my friends stops taking Methadone his body will violently revolt. He will throw up, his every muscle will cramp up, he won't be able to see straight, so no. He takes the methadone so that these things don't happen to him, so he can keep and job and not scare the crap outta the nice normal people.

He wants off of the stuff, yet the clinic keeps him on it and does not have a couple months to devote to getting it out of his system as he has school and a job and bills to pay. Never ending cycle, and believe me, he doesn't want to be there.

So, I am confused. Are you saying that even though he wants to be clean he can't because of his mental make-up, or something else?

Sounds like he is too busy to take the time to stop the methadone...its his decision..its his life. Sounds like starting a methadone habit was a bad move....sounds like starting on something stronger which eventually led to the methadone was a bad move too...but its his life and I'm sure that when giving up the methadone becomes a high enough priority (if it ever does) then he will quit. Lots and lots and lots of people take the stronger stuff and don't get addicted....lots and lots and lots of people get addicted and then end their addiction without methadone....lots and lots and lots of people get addicted to the stronger stuff and then switch to methadone and then quit the methadone....of course there are also lots of people who don't and my view is that mental factors are the main difference between these two kinds of people. When people get truly motivated to quit then that is what they do...it can be done...it is not magic.

Chownah

Let everyone decide for themselves what drugs they want to take...it is their body and their life after all.

I do not fully agree with that chownah. When someone is feeling depressed /emotionally unstable /distressed etc, they are often not in their 'right mind' so to speak, so need proper care and guidance.

Absolutely. Although i have no personal experience of actually taking drugs. I remember when my dad died, he was 39 and my mum 38. I was 18 and in the Royal Navy at the time.

To cope with my fathers death, the doctor put my mum on Valium. I came home on leave again about 4 months later and the change in my mum was the most aweful sight i can remember. She was gaunt, unstable and well you get the picture. She was hooked and it took a further 4 years to wean her off the Valium.

Now, i'm no doctor but i'm sure she would have got over the grieving process alot quicker, without the Valium.

So, are you saying that she wanted to take the valium in the first place? Are you saying that she should not have been allowed to take the valium in the first place?....that valium should be illegal to use in the way the doctor prescribed it for her? If it was ok for her to take valium in the first place (since I don't know if this is the case this is a hypothetical) then at what point should it have become not ok for her to continue?...and who should have made her stop?...the law...the doctor...you....someone else?

Also, a more general comment not related to anyone in particular: Addiction is a problem that people have because of their mental makeup....addiction is not a problem for most people. Many people don't believe this but if you look at the number of people who develop an addiction problem from taking prescription morphine while under a physicians care you will find that it is very small. Most people can take narcotics and not develop an addiction problem because they do not have a predisposed mental makeup. I'm not saying that they have a better mental makup or that addicts have a worse mental makeup...I'm only saying there is a difference in regard to one particular thing...and that is a predisposition to drug addiction.

Also, It is my view that if someone is in a mental condition that they can not make decisions for themselves and this has been formally determined in some way, then someone should be appointed as their guardian and that guardian should make the decisions about what drugs that person should take. Unless this is done then the individual should decide for themselves...in my view.

Chownah

A mental make-up? Chownah you are so far off base. My friend is taking methadone. He has been taking this to kick stronger stuff. He has meet a wonderful women, is back in school and wants a family, however he is still hooked on methadone. It doesn't get him high, his body just tears itself part until it gets methadone. He would be sick for weeks maybe even a couple months of more if he tried to kick it. He wants away from drugs, he is sorry he has ever done them. Now, are you going to say he has the wrong 'mental make-up'? When I hear people say things liek what you have said I know not to listen, for they have not seen nor been to those terrifying places addicition takes you.

This is what I posted and I think its quite to the point, "I'm not saying that they have a better mental makup or that addicts have a worse mental makeup...I'm only saying there is a difference in regard to one particular thing...and that is a predisposition to drug addiction." Your friend seems to have a prediposition to addiction.....can't stop taking them so it seems.....I think that mental makeup has alot to do with predisposition to addiction and so do alot of other people; its not some new idea that I've cooked up on my own. Look at how your friend got addicted in the first place and what was going on in his life and you will probably get a hint about this predisposition. Lots and lots and lots of people take addictive drugs and don't get addicted...and lot and lots and lots of people get addicted to drugs and then end that addiction. It seems that people whose lives are empty are predisposed to addiction and people who have something in life more important than drugs seem to avoid addiction and end an addiction if it should happen.

Your friend takes whatever drugs your friend wants it seems. Your friend could stop taking drugs if your friend really wanted to I'm sure. People who say that people can not end their drug usage are dangerous enablers and to a great extent are a major cause of chronic drug use. I might point out that drug users are the biggest pool of enablers who try to claim that an addict can not stop taking drugs....it helps them to avoid taking responsibility for their lives by claiming that thier condition is beyond their control....they are wrong.

Chownah

Okay, let me be more clear. Methadone does not feel good, it does not get anyone high. It's a government sponsered drug that is supposed to helpl kick worse habits. If my friends stops taking Methadone his body will violently revolt. He will throw up, his every muscle will cramp up, he won't be able to see straight, so no. He takes the methadone so that these things don't happen to him, so he can keep and job and not scare the crap outta the nice normal people.

He wants off of the stuff, yet the clinic keeps him on it and does not have a couple months to devote to getting it out of his system as he has school and a job and bills to pay. Never ending cycle, and believe me, he doesn't want to be there.

So, I am confused. Are you saying that even though he wants to be clean he can't because of his mental make-up, or something else?

Sounds like he is too busy to take the time to stop the methadone...its his decision..its his life. Sounds like starting a methadone habit was a bad move....sounds like starting on something stronger which eventually led to the methadone was a bad move too...but its his life and I'm sure that when giving up the methadone becomes a high enough priority (if it ever does) then he will quit. Lots and lots and lots of people take the stronger stuff and don't get addicted....lots and lots and lots of people get addicted and then end their addiction without methadone....lots and lots and lots of people get addicted to the stronger stuff and then switch to methadone and then quit the methadone....of course there are also lots of people who don't and my view is that mental factors are the main difference between these two kinds of people. When people get truly motivated to quit then that is what they do...it can be done...it is not magic.

Chownah

You're not listening. If he takes the time off to get the drug, he can't pay his bills.He didn't want to start a methadone addiction, that is what was recommended to him by the governement run clinic that he went to seek help from. Clearly you have never kicked a habit of any kind. Addiction can be in the mind but for many drugs they are in the nervous system, and there is notihng that a person can do about that.

hang on lads,

I know few are accustomed to seeing me post anything honest and open, but I think that you two, specifically can agree that I do post honesty heartfelt stuff every now and them

Chownah's got a point. At least, in so far as my opinion is concerned.

The mental aspect of it all plays a MASSIVE part.

The problem is, is that in our "western world" we apply very little kudo's to the power of the mind.

I'm coming from the point of view of somebody who gets massively addicted to some (hard) drugs, and kicks them regularly,.

But as the years have gone by, my mental power to "just say no" in the first place has diminished.

Or, rather, to say "no" to things I've already tried, diminishes.

Well, Whatever.

What I am trying to say, is this:

The mind CAN absolutely control the body's actions.

Sadly, we are not brought up this way - in the west but also, increasingly, in the east - and we are brought up to believe any old hype.

Nobody's gonna tell em that I'm sick.

I'll know it.

The question will be whether I want to admit it to myself.

And even if I do -as I have in the past - will I be able to get myself under control again?

And for some people, THAT is really fuc,kin hard to do.

edit: added:

Nobody's gonna tell em that I'm sick.

I'll know it.

The question will be whether I want to admit it to myself.

- This includes drugs that affect my neurological, or physical being.

I may feel better, for whatever reason, and I may love the feeling, but I will ALWAYS know WHY.

And that is ultimately, where we under0estimate the power of the mind.

We may feel better for something. But we always know why this is so. And sometimes we may accept that despite feeling better, we are going about it the wriong way. It's all in the mind, ultimately. including physiological stuff... We wouln'd eevn feel it if it wasn'r interpretated by the mind.

Okay, I can agree with all this.

This has gone a little awry from the original question now, but, as we are here.

I have partaken in numerous white substances in the past, but I have never bought any or actively sought them out..... if someone else has had some and offered to share, I've shared. I've always regarded those as a fun enhancer and not an emotional crutch, and I can have fun without them anyway. It's my opinion that if you take recreational drugs purely for recreation you shouldn't become addicted to them, if you take them as a problem solver, chances are you will.

A little bit back to original intent of the topic.

In late 1977, I lost a father to a brain tumour and a sister to a heroin overdose, this is now thirty years ago, but even way back then, my mother was prescribed a course of anti-depressants, she tried them for a couple of days and then flushed them down the toilet. Her words..... she would rather feel sad than out of control. Strong woman my mother.

There are way too many instances of mood changing drugs being prescribed as a 'quick fix' (please get out of my clinic) than the better option. Emotional support from friends and family, or just plain honest counselling if no friends or family are around.

I don't like quick fixes, it's like putting a band-aid on a broken leg, it seldom works and usually makes a larger problem.

Let everyone decide for themselves what drugs they want to take...it is their body and their life after all.

I do not fully agree with that chownah. When someone is feeling depressed /emotionally unstable /distressed etc, they are often not in their 'right mind' so to speak, so need proper care and guidance.

Absolutely. Although i have no personal experience of actually taking drugs. I remember when my dad died, he was 39 and my mum 38. I was 18 and in the Royal Navy at the time.

To cope with my fathers death, the doctor put my mum on Valium. I came home on leave again about 4 months later and the change in my mum was the most aweful sight i can remember. She was gaunt, unstable and well you get the picture. She was hooked and it took a further 4 years to wean her off the Valium.

Now, i'm no doctor but i'm sure she would have got over the grieving process alot quicker, without the Valium.

So, are you saying that she wanted to take the valium in the first place? Are you saying that she should not have been allowed to take the valium in the first place?....that valium should be illegal to use in the way the doctor prescribed it for her? If it was ok for her to take valium in the first place (since I don't know if this is the case this is a hypothetical) then at what point should it have become not ok for her to continue?...and who should have made her stop?...the law...the doctor...you....someone else?

Also, a more general comment not related to anyone in particular: Addiction is a problem that people have because of their mental makeup....addiction is not a problem for most people. Many people don't believe this but if you look at the number of people who develop an addiction problem from taking prescription morphine while under a physicians care you will find that it is very small. Most people can take narcotics and not develop an addiction problem because they do not have a predisposed mental makeup. I'm not saying that they have a better mental makup or that addicts have a worse mental makeup...I'm only saying there is a difference in regard to one particular thing...and that is a predisposition to drug addiction.

Also, It is my view that if someone is in a mental condition that they can not make decisions for themselves and this has been formally determined in some way, then someone should be appointed as their guardian and that guardian should make the decisions about what drugs that person should take. Unless this is done then the individual should decide for themselves...in my view.

Chownah

A mental make-up? Chownah you are so far off base. My friend is taking methadone. He has been taking this to kick stronger stuff. He has meet a wonderful women, is back in school and wants a family, however he is still hooked on methadone. It doesn't get him high, his body just tears itself part until it gets methadone. He would be sick for weeks maybe even a couple months of more if he tried to kick it. He wants away from drugs, he is sorry he has ever done them. Now, are you going to say he has the wrong 'mental make-up'? When I hear people say things liek what you have said I know not to listen, for they have not seen nor been to those terrifying places addicition takes you.

This is what I posted and I think its quite to the point, "I'm not saying that they have a better mental makup or that addicts have a worse mental makeup...I'm only saying there is a difference in regard to one particular thing...and that is a predisposition to drug addiction." Your friend seems to have a prediposition to addiction.....can't stop taking them so it seems.....I think that mental makeup has alot to do with predisposition to addiction and so do alot of other people; its not some new idea that I've cooked up on my own. Look at how your friend got addicted in the first place and what was going on in his life and you will probably get a hint about this predisposition. Lots and lots and lots of people take addictive drugs and don't get addicted...and lot and lots and lots of people get addicted to drugs and then end that addiction. It seems that people whose lives are empty are predisposed to addiction and people who have something in life more important than drugs seem to avoid addiction and end an addiction if it should happen.

Your friend takes whatever drugs your friend wants it seems. Your friend could stop taking drugs if your friend really wanted to I'm sure. People who say that people can not end their drug usage are dangerous enablers and to a great extent are a major cause of chronic drug use. I might point out that drug users are the biggest pool of enablers who try to claim that an addict can not stop taking drugs....it helps them to avoid taking responsibility for their lives by claiming that thier condition is beyond their control....they are wrong.

Chownah

Okay, let me be more clear. Methadone does not feel good, it does not get anyone high. It's a government sponsered drug that is supposed to helpl kick worse habits. If my friends stops taking Methadone his body will violently revolt. He will throw up, his every muscle will cramp up, he won't be able to see straight, so no. He takes the methadone so that these things don't happen to him, so he can keep and job and not scare the crap outta the nice normal people.

He wants off of the stuff, yet the clinic keeps him on it and does not have a couple months to devote to getting it out of his system as he has school and a job and bills to pay. Never ending cycle, and believe me, he doesn't want to be there.

So, I am confused. Are you saying that even though he wants to be clean he can't because of his mental make-up, or something else?

Sounds like he is too busy to take the time to stop the methadone...its his decision..its his life. Sounds like starting a methadone habit was a bad move....sounds like starting on something stronger which eventually led to the methadone was a bad move too...but its his life and I'm sure that when giving up the methadone becomes a high enough priority (if it ever does) then he will quit. Lots and lots and lots of people take the stronger stuff and don't get addicted....lots and lots and lots of people get addicted and then end their addiction without methadone....lots and lots and lots of people get addicted to the stronger stuff and then switch to methadone and then quit the methadone....of course there are also lots of people who don't and my view is that mental factors are the main difference between these two kinds of people. When people get truly motivated to quit then that is what they do...it can be done...it is not magic.

Chownah

You're not listening. If he takes the time off to get the drug, he can't pay his bills.He didn't want to start a methadone addiction, that is what was recommended to him by the governement run clinic that he went to seek help from. Clearly you have never kicked a habit of any kind. Addiction can be in the mind but for many drugs they are in the nervous system, and there is notihng that a person can do about that.

Oh, I am listening. If someone has been taking hard drugs for awhile then if they stop it will be disruptive of their life and there is no way around it. It is up to the individual (assuming that they have access to the drug and the lack of drugs does not force the issue) to decide if they want to go through the disruption or not....it is their life...it is their body..they need to decide. It seems that your friend in fact did want to start a methadone addiction...I think that your friend was well aware that methadone is addictive and was clearly informed by the agency that offered the program that methadone is addictive and your friend made an informed choice and chose the methadone addiction. Perhaps your fiend wants to blame his condition on the gov't for offering the methadone....this would be typical addict mind set...addicts who can't quit tend to avoid facing up to the fact that they are responsible for their condition and so they look for someone else to get them out of their situation.

I have kicked the most difficult habit....nicotine.

Certainly addictive drugs act on the nervous system and the actual addiction is physical...I am not saying that the discomfort of withdrawal is imaginary. What I am saying is that most people don't get addicted when taking addictive drugs and that most people who do become addicted quit taking the drugs and end their addiction and that the difference between those who do and those who don't is something in their mental makeup. Further I am asserting that saying that an addict can not quit helps to strengthen the mental quality that inhibits an addict from quitting....a self fulfilling prophecy so to speak.

Chownah

Let everyone decide for themselves what drugs they want to take...it is their body and their life after all.

I do not fully agree with that chownah. When someone is feeling depressed /emotionally unstable /distressed etc, they are often not in their 'right mind' so to speak, so need proper care and guidance.

Absolutely. Although i have no personal experience of actually taking drugs. I remember when my dad died, he was 39 and my mum 38. I was 18 and in the Royal Navy at the time.

To cope with my fathers death, the doctor put my mum on Valium. I came home on leave again about 4 months later and the change in my mum was the most aweful sight i can remember. She was gaunt, unstable and well you get the picture. She was hooked and it took a further 4 years to wean her off the Valium.

Now, i'm no doctor but i'm sure she would have got over the grieving process alot quicker, without the Valium.

So, are you saying that she wanted to take the valium in the first place? Are you saying that she should not have been allowed to take the valium in the first place?....that valium should be illegal to use in the way the doctor prescribed it for her? If it was ok for her to take valium in the first place (since I don't know if this is the case this is a hypothetical) then at what point should it have become not ok for her to continue?...and who should have made her stop?...the law...the doctor...you....someone else?

Also, a more general comment not related to anyone in particular: Addiction is a problem that people have because of their mental makeup....addiction is not a problem for most people. Many people don't believe this but if you look at the number of people who develop an addiction problem from taking prescription morphine while under a physicians care you will find that it is very small. Most people can take narcotics and not develop an addiction problem because they do not have a predisposed mental makeup. I'm not saying that they have a better mental makup or that addicts have a worse mental makeup...I'm only saying there is a difference in regard to one particular thing...and that is a predisposition to drug addiction.

Also, It is my view that if someone is in a mental condition that they can not make decisions for themselves and this has been formally determined in some way, then someone should be appointed as their guardian and that guardian should make the decisions about what drugs that person should take. Unless this is done then the individual should decide for themselves...in my view.

Chownah

A mental make-up? Chownah you are so far off base. My friend is taking methadone. He has been taking this to kick stronger stuff. He has meet a wonderful women, is back in school and wants a family, however he is still hooked on methadone. It doesn't get him high, his body just tears itself part until it gets methadone. He would be sick for weeks maybe even a couple months of more if he tried to kick it. He wants away from drugs, he is sorry he has ever done them. Now, are you going to say he has the wrong 'mental make-up'? When I hear people say things liek what you have said I know not to listen, for they have not seen nor been to those terrifying places addicition takes you.

This is what I posted and I think its quite to the point, "I'm not saying that they have a better mental makup or that addicts have a worse mental makeup...I'm only saying there is a difference in regard to one particular thing...and that is a predisposition to drug addiction." Your friend seems to have a prediposition to addiction.....can't stop taking them so it seems.....I think that mental makeup has alot to do with predisposition to addiction and so do alot of other people; its not some new idea that I've cooked up on my own. Look at how your friend got addicted in the first place and what was going on in his life and you will probably get a hint about this predisposition. Lots and lots and lots of people take addictive drugs and don't get addicted...and lot and lots and lots of people get addicted to drugs and then end that addiction. It seems that people whose lives are empty are predisposed to addiction and people who have something in life more important than drugs seem to avoid addiction and end an addiction if it should happen.

Your friend takes whatever drugs your friend wants it seems. Your friend could stop taking drugs if your friend really wanted to I'm sure. People who say that people can not end their drug usage are dangerous enablers and to a great extent are a major cause of chronic drug use. I might point out that drug users are the biggest pool of enablers who try to claim that an addict can not stop taking drugs....it helps them to avoid taking responsibility for their lives by claiming that thier condition is beyond their control....they are wrong.

Chownah

Okay, let me be more clear. Methadone does not feel good, it does not get anyone high. It's a government sponsered drug that is supposed to helpl kick worse habits. If my friends stops taking Methadone his body will violently revolt. He will throw up, his every muscle will cramp up, he won't be able to see straight, so no. He takes the methadone so that these things don't happen to him, so he can keep and job and not scare the crap outta the nice normal people.

He wants off of the stuff, yet the clinic keeps him on it and does not have a couple months to devote to getting it out of his system as he has school and a job and bills to pay. Never ending cycle, and believe me, he doesn't want to be there.

So, I am confused. Are you saying that even though he wants to be clean he can't because of his mental make-up, or something else?

Sounds like he is too busy to take the time to stop the methadone...its his decision..its his life. Sounds like starting a methadone habit was a bad move....sounds like starting on something stronger which eventually led to the methadone was a bad move too...but its his life and I'm sure that when giving up the methadone becomes a high enough priority (if it ever does) then he will quit. Lots and lots and lots of people take the stronger stuff and don't get addicted....lots and lots and lots of people get addicted and then end their addiction without methadone....lots and lots and lots of people get addicted to the stronger stuff and then switch to methadone and then quit the methadone....of course there are also lots of people who don't and my view is that mental factors are the main difference between these two kinds of people. When people get truly motivated to quit then that is what they do...it can be done...it is not magic.

Chownah

You're not listening. If he takes the time off to get the drug, he can't pay his bills.He didn't want to start a methadone addiction, that is what was recommended to him by the governement run clinic that he went to seek help from. Clearly you have never kicked a habit of any kind. Addiction can be in the mind but for many drugs they are in the nervous system, and there is notihng that a person can do about that.

Oh, I am listening. If someone has been taking hard drugs for awhile then if they stop it will be disruptive of their life and there is no way around it. It is up to the individual (assuming that they have access to the drug and the lack of drugs does not force the issue) to decide if they want to go through the disruption or not....it is their life...it is their body..they need to decide. It seems that your friend in fact did want to start a methadone addiction...I think that your friend was well aware that methadone is addictive and was clearly informed by the agency that offered the program that methadone is addictive and your friend made an informed choice and chose the methadone addiction. Perhaps your fiend wants to blame his condition on the gov't for offering the methadone....this would be typical addict mind set...addicts who can't quit tend to avoid facing up to the fact that they are responsible for their condition and so they look for someone else to get them out of their situation.

I have kicked the most difficult habit....nicotine.

Certainly addictive drugs act on the nervous system and the actual addiction is physical...I am not saying that the discomfort of withdrawal is imaginary. What I am saying is that most people don't get addicted when taking addictive drugs and that most people who do become addicted quit taking the drugs and end their addiction and that the difference between those who do and those who don't is something in their mental makeup. Further I am asserting that saying that an addict can not quit helps to strengthen the mental quality that inhibits an addict from quitting....a self fulfilling prophecy so to speak.

Chownah

Okay, I can understand this.