Poll for Americans: The New American Dream is Moving Abroad. Agree or not?

[Jingthing]

So What'd Ya Think of That?

[CharlieKo]

What American Dream? probably the biggest fallacy ever. 

[John Drake]

True, for probably an increasing number. Just hope they don't come here. Stay in their same time zone. 

[Jingthing]

12 minutes ago, CharlieKo said:

What American Dream? probably the biggest fallacy ever. 

Well my grandparents had it but they were more motivated by avoiding getting murdered than what it would be like in the new world.

 

Turned out for them it was not so great for first generation but got better. One side first generation was a total disaster actually (couldn't even feed their children).

 

A repeated theme. The poor great unwashed risking their lives to cross the Darien gap are much more motivated by how bad their lives are where they come from than what it might be like where they're going. They basically know the wages are much higher but do they really get the expenses are ruinously much higher as well?

 

I see hopeful immigrants to the U.S. like "Sanctioned Ivan" (youtuber in Thailand -- escapee from Putin's Russia) have idealistic and unrealistic impressions that are clearly not true but I reckon everyone needs to learn the realities for themselves, just as expats do when we leave.

[novacova]

1 hour ago, CharlieKo said:

What American Dream? probably the biggest fallacy ever. 

The above statement epitomizes the lack of ambition 

[novacova]

The American Dream is based on individual independence self ownership hard work and merit. The infrastructure and foundation of it was built during the last century of which is now an inheritance that is incrementally being eroded by a blind convoluted warped ideology. The idea of the American Dream is simply hard work, if one aspires to be successful and takes advantage of the tools available, then they’ll succeed, if they don’t then they won’t. I can point to a few foreign national friends in the US that went there with nothing and had great success without handouts. And yet there are those who were born and raised in the US that are beggars, no drive to succeed and stagnate in complaints. If you want to earn a lot of money, then do it in the US, then after a little time and patients, move abroad and enjoy the American Dream. So What’d Ya Think About That?

[Jingthing]

1 hour ago, novacova said:

The American Dream is based on individual independence self ownership hard work and merit. The infrastructure and foundation of it was built during the last century of which is now an inheritance that is incrementally being eroded by a blind convoluted warped ideology. The idea of the American Dream is simply hard work, if one aspires to be successful and takes advantage of the tools available, then they’ll succeed, if they don’t then they won’t. I can point to a few foreign national friends in the US that went there with nothing and had great success without handouts. And yet there are those who were born and raised in the US that are beggars, no drive to succeed and stagnate in complaints. If you want to earn a lot of money, then do it in the US, then after a little time and patients, move abroad and enjoy the American Dream. So What’d Ya Think About That?

So you bought the Horatio Alger Ayn Rand Kool Aid.

I do think immigrants tend to embody the American dream more than Born in the USA ers.

[DrPhibes]

Depends.   As I have aged with a miracle 6yr old, the rat race to succeed in order to just own a house, the rise in crime (especially school shootings), the absolute crazy government, inflation gouging, etc...  have decided to stay in CM but keeping a house in Fort Collins CO in case things go nipples up here, selling the rest this summer before the election, save my little tax business which, I alone will travel to each year and get the heck out after the season is over.  if things in the future become more rational, well...

[KhunHeineken]

It's not a dream, it's a plan, and it's not just for Americans, many other western people feel the same. 

[save the frogs]

where did you get that from? Nomad Capitalist?

He makes a lot of money with visas and everything to do with relocation.

 

Depends on your situation.

If you're a medical doctor in the US, you make a fortune. Where else are you going to make that much money?

 

Ditto for sports athletes, anyone working in Hollywood, Nashville music scene, Silicon Valley ... 

[bkk6060]

Some are but The majority are staying in the U.S.  But mostly to Texas, Tennesse, Idaho, Arizona, Nevada and southern states.  All for a cheaper lifestyle especially housing.  The dream is dead in places like California.  

[Etaoin Shrdlu]

7 hours ago, CharlieKo said:

What American Dream? probably the biggest fallacy ever. 

 

In my family's case, on one side the dream was to avoid conscription in the Prussian army. On the other, it was to avoid being murdered by the Nazis. Seems to have worked out well enough on both sides.

[retarius]

I put yes because it was my dream to move abroad. But I have really no idea what others feel. I have two sons, I moved abroad 20 years ago and has never been back. The other is happy 'living the dream'. So 50:50 perhaps might have been a better pick.

I moved to the US 40 years ago and did well.....able to retire at 55 which was also my dream. Looking back, apart from the money, I didn't enjoy the job, the way of living or the people (nearly all were GOPers) and I left during the Iraq war that made me feel very isolated at work as NO-ONE I worked with shared my views that it was a huge mistake (and totally illegal) made by the lying Bush and Blair, even I knew there were no WMDs in Iraq. 

[EVENKEEL]

My parents and siblings came through Ellis Is. Had to have a sponsor with proof of job waiting, be checked out by doctors for disease. 

 

The American Dream is still in the USA for those willing to sacrifice for it. But, problem is too many have gotten soft and lazy. You want me to work 5 days a week??? oh the horror.

[Cryingdick]

The Americans dream is still to become rich. Traveling is fine but nobody with a working brain has the plan of moving abroad as their first choice. This only really happens if things aren't working out for you. Going abroad is a dream but it isn't the american dream. The American dream is to become scuccessful enough to have your own home and be able to have the freedom to go wherever you want to. 

 

Living in some $250 a month room in Cambodian isn't the Americans dream unless you are mentally deficient. It is actually a very exciting time to be young and alive in the USA if you educate yourself you can find that future. 

[CharlieKo]

10 hours ago, novacova said:

The above statement epitomizes the lack of ambition 

What utter rubbish. 

[KhunLA]

11 hours ago, novacova said:

The American Dream is based on individual independence self ownership hard work and merit.

 

If you want to earn a lot of money, then do it in the US, then after a little time and patients, move abroad and enjoy the American Dream. So What’d Ya Think About That?

That pretty much mirrors my life.   Self employment, investing, not relying on employers.   Then get out of Dodge.

 

I'm 69 yrs old.  First 23 yrs, party hardy.   Second 23 decide how to and make as much as possible, still partying hardy.

 

Last 23 years, enjoy the spoils of your work, and been here since 2001 permanently.

 

Not so easy to do in today's USA, with the price of housing & healthcare.  Self taught, self employment is about the only advantage I see in USA now, and caters to the well to do, who can't be bothered to do some things around their house.   

 

Some small investment to get started, but heavily regulated to do legally.   More so than 40+ yrs ago, when I started.  All it takes is drive & ambition to not be a slave to the system. 

[Jingthing]

Obviously moving abroad isn't for everyone, but also obviously interest and actions in doing so is on an upward trend in the U.S. and for good reasons.

 

This Young South Carolina Woman Sees No Future for Herself in the U.S. — Should She Move? | Moneywise

 

There are different general buckets of motivations. Some examples:

 

Old style expats who take high paying expat jobs typically with multinationals and usually with no intention of staying abroad indefinitely. 

 

Retire abroad also old style bucket sometimes motivated by economic arbitrage (bang for the buck better, ability to retire early or at all) and for wealthier people just following their passions to more expensive places.

 

Newer trends, 

 

Younger people moving abroad using economic arbitrage, working remote earning dollars, even teaching English to Chinese people online, digital nomads, etc. It's hard to know what percentage of those types will stay abroad.

 

Going forward. Americans moving abroad who will intend to work in the local economy and hope that they can have a better quality of life and better social mobility by doing so. Either with jobs or business. For example, opening a restaurant in Panama has got to be a lot easier and cheaper than opening one in the U.S. Social mobility class movement is better now in western Europe than in the U.S. 

Now that would mean for some really trading the American Dream for a Fill in the Blank Dream.

 

Then there are the political / ideological refugees such as maga fascists moving to Russia because they like how Russia persecutes LGBT people. I'm happy to see them go and to them that's their Russian Dream. It takes all kinds.

[jas007]

Other than retirees with an independent source of income or those able to work remotely, moving abroad isn’t really an option for most people. But for those who are able, why not? Take your American dollars and experience another culture. 
 

My guess is that not many people in America have that dream. They have too many obligations in the US or they don’t have the proper mindset.  And so they accept their reality.
 

 

[swissie]

Our grandfathers came mostly as "unskilled labor" to the US. No problem, they then worked for Henry Ford and Carnegie.

In reverse: What awaits the "latinos" coming to the US today? Mostly unskilled laborors. Basically no need for them in todays US economy. Young latinos ending up in the many "underground" economies. Or mowing the grass for "rich people".

For young Latinos, there is no American dream left, especially as "the Americans" themselves see their American dream fade away into the sunset.

[Jingthing]

15 minutes ago, swissie said:

Our grandfathers came mostly as "unskilled labor" to the US. No problem, they then worked for Henry Ford and Carnegie.

In reverse: What awaits the "latinos" coming to the US today? Mostly unskilled laborors. Basically no need for them in todays US economy. Young latinos ending up in the many "underground" economies. Or mowing the grass for "rich people".

For young Latinos, there is no American dream left, especially as "the Americans" themselves see their American dream fade away into the sunset.

It depends. 

There are different kinds of Latino migrants 

Farm workers and meat processing workers sure but there are also successful entrepreneurs and well educated ones.

[still kicking]

I don't know about the American dream or what it is the Australian dream used to be own your own home. Which now is impossible