Health Insurance for the over 70’s

[Surasak]

I self insure. The premiums were going up at a rate of knots I couldn't keep up with. What I was paying in premiums 18 years ago, I put away for when it may be needed. I have had a couple of hospital visits, but they were for minor things, so just paid from my monthly expenses. If I don't have enough if it should come to something serious, so? We all have to go some time and I have had a good innings. Sh*t happens.

[Ben Zioner]

1 hour ago, Surasak said:

With which company and how old are you?

A UN agency, 72.

[Sheryl]

2 hours ago, Surasak said:

With which company and how old are you?

From prior post this is a group policy for UN employees and ex-employees.

 

Excellent  luck for that group of people but  not an open option that anyone can get.

 

Some governments provide something similar to their employees, and retirees, some do not. With those who do,  one usually has to have met criteria for retirement (X number of years worked,  worked until age X etc) to be able to keep the cover for life.

 

For most of us,  the only options are individual  private insurance or self-insuring. Neither is cheap and there is no way to predict which will turn out to cost less for a specific individual in the long run. Past and current health are not reliable predictors especially as we age. 

 

Private individual policies will feature  premiums that go up significantly as you age, especially once past 60-65, no exceptions. (The likelihood that you will use the insurance also greatly increases as you age). Self-insuring as already discussed requires significant funds right from the onset* and some way of replenishing them as used. 

 

* the "just bank what you would  have spent on premiums" idea is deeply flawed as it assumes no major health expenses until X years have passed. That is never guaranteed, and is especially unlikely for people who are older. To effectively self-insure you need capital you can set aside from day one. 

 

It is important to understand how health insurance works. Some seem to mistake it for a savings plan and think they should expect to get back in coverage something at least equal to they  have paid in over time, and if they don't then it is a "scam".  That would be a savings scheme not insurance.

 

In  any effectively run  health insurance, the majority of people will end up having paid more in premiums than they get back in paid benefits, and a minority will get benefits worth more than hhey paid in premiums -- in some cases  vastly  more. Group A in effect subsidizes group B. The model  works because people having no way of knowing which group they'll end up in over the long run, so are willing to risk having paid out more for the security of knowing they"ll always be able to get health care without depleting their assets. 

 

Incidentally the same is true for the NHS which is in no way "free", if is paid for in taxes (including VAT as well as income taxes, capital gains tax   death duties etc . Absorbs nearly a fifth of all UK government revenue) and most people will pay more than they receive in benefits  while others get far more in benefits than they paid for. There are of course important differences in when and  how people pay and how the payment burden is spread out among people  but this basic principal still holds. 

 

 

[Doctor Tom]

4 hours ago, noobexpat said:

I'm 49 and very healthy.

Keep +1.5m in the thai bank. Bangkok bank app has a 'quick display' feature without a pin code. My plan would be to show the balance to demonstrate i have a deposit.

 

+10m in cash is quickly accessible from western account. 

 

For my carcinoma operation at BH Pattaya, I was required to pay, in cash/debit card,  a holding amount,  pre the operation, based on an estimate of the cost on completion. I presume that a credit card payment would also be acceptable.  After the operation the hospital accounts refunded 5,000 Baht.  

Edited May 29 by Doctor Tom

[Sheryl]

2 hours ago, Surasak said:

 If I don't have enough if it should come to something serious, so? We all have to go some time and I have had a good innings. Sh*t happens.

Easy to say now. Not so easy to deal with when it happens.

 

It is often not a question of just "going". It is more often a question of quality of life. Living in pain or not. Going blind or losing the ability to walk, or not. Etc etc.

 

If  you might not have enough for something serious, then you are not in fact self-insured. You are (very) under-insured.

[swissie]

It is not unusual that Farangs realise that after having built a lavish mansion for the family, they discover that any private health insurance in Thailand costs about the same as in their home country.

[sandyf]

9 hours ago, Surasak said:

I self insure. The premiums were going up at a rate of knots I couldn't keep up with. What I was paying in premiums 18 years ago, I put away for when it may be needed. I have had a couple of hospital visits, but they were for minor things, so just paid from my monthly expenses. If I don't have enough if it should come to something serious, so? We all have to go some time and I have had a good innings. Sh*t happens.

Quite, medical bills only become a problem if you are not ready to switch the lights out.

[sandyf]

8 hours ago, Sheryl said:

Incidentally the same is true for the NHS which is in no way "free", if is paid for in taxes (including VAT as well as income taxes, capital gains tax   death duties etc . Absorbs nearly a fifth of all UK government revenue) and most people will pay more than they receive in benefits  while others get far more in benefits than they paid for. There are of course important differences in when and  how people pay and how the payment burden is spread out among people  but this basic principal still holds. 

An irrelevant and distorted generalisation. In fact the NHS is free to a large percentage of the population, children and those that have never worked do not contribute to general taxation.

As far as expats are concerned, having made the payment in earlier years, treatment can be available at no additional cost.

A national insurance record is effectively money in the bank and under certain circumstances can be used towards health care in other countries.

[thailand49]

15 hours ago, Ben Zioner said:

You guys just don't get it. I am over 70. Our Health Plan covers thousands of people, employees, dependents  and retirees . The premium per head is about Sfr 600 (THB 24000) a month and about half of that for Children. Depending on grade the Organisation pays between 45%(Directors) and 65% (Young professionals) of the individual share, as a retiree I pay 35%. So I pay the same as a young P2 joining today.

 

Feel free to ask any other question, as you seem to need education to understand proper health cover.

 

Maybe this could help: In a proper corporate health cover the the risk is mutualised between all participants.

Education, I was curious to your claim and plan. What you indicate is not the type of policy " organization "  in general a person can obtain.

Every company insurance being offere in Thailand is based on age, ex..  20-25, 26-30, 70-75, regardless premium will rise average 4000 baht a year. Polices are sold alacart inpatient and out.

Premium " 24,000 baht "  a month that comes to around $300-400 a month x 12 = $$$$$. As posted he cant afford what he had already and cancelled! 

Then policies sold here " pre- existing condition even jock itch you arent going to be accepted LOL, they claim wont cancel your policy but your premium will rise regardless then policies purchased coverage are limited a policy for 2-3 million baht coverage a person over 70, cost could range around 75,000 baht.

Whatever your company coverage not available to many of us " civil servant " if you are happy more power to you but to many it isnt obtainable your explanation your own words seem to prove it.

So people drop their coverage like myself, I purchase insurance for over 10 years never use yet premium continue to rise. Once I had a coverage for 1.5 million, at 45,000 baht, all of a sudden company daid we wont provide coverage any longer BUT can offer a policy for max 800,000 baht premium will be still 45,000 baht. 

New company will pick up coverage 1.5 premium 65,000 " 65-70 " but to be accepted must go to specific hospital get a full checkup 8000 baht  and remember pre - existing "

This is what insurance is all about from my experiemce in Thailand.

 

 

[newbee2022]

23 hours ago, Tazmo said:

As I worked for the NHS in the UK, I never had Health Insurance.

 

But a few years after retiring in Thailand, I read that Insurance would be necessary to renew your visa.

 

I researched several Companies,then contacted a Broker who insisted that I need Insurance cover.

 

 I took out a Policy in 2019 for £2,711.31 per year. Then found out from my Visa Agent that with my visa, no Insurance was necessary.

However I continued with the Policy, although the Premium kept increasing each year and I had made no claims.

 

I  have been paying for my own hospital treatment, which included in patient for dengue fever etc etc and most  recently paid, 28K THB for a colonoscopy and removal of polyps.

 

My excess on my Policy is £2,000. so I am unable to claim, for anything less than that, and reducing the 'excess' will increase my premium!

 

This year my premium has climbed to £3,148.09.

I decided to cancel the Policy altogether. I can’t afford it on my pension!

I realize it’s taking a risk Incase of emergencies, but hopefully I will return to the UK if anything major is required.

 

Any experience with Insurance cover for the over 70’s?  

Get a quotation from Wrlife. They take when over 70. No access. Even preconditions are not a problem. But read the contract carefully 

[DonnyS]

18 hours ago, TheFishman1 said:

I just renewed my policy with the same insurance company last year. Say it was around $5100 this year went up till about $5700 or $5800 is very excellent insurance. They usually pay for any medical services like operations I need that any hassle Once I reach $2000 deductible any operation has no deductible. They pay US$1000 and medicine a year one year free medical exam immunization shots free up to a certain amount overall I’m pretty happy with Insurance I have. TIT

Whats the Insurance Name?

[PeterA]

"I  have been paying for my own hospital treatment, which included in patient for dengue fever etc etc and most  recently paid, 28K THB for a colonoscopy and removal of polyps. "

\

Not sure where you had that done. Did they use a golden probe?

I had one 4 weeks ago at Bangkok Hospital in Korat. Total cost was 12,000 THB. Polyps removed and tested as well.

That is why I don't have insurance here. My total payments for health care here has been under 20,000 THB a year. Far under what the premiums  for insurance would be.

When I get quotes from the insurance companies, they list of exclusions is crazy. I had back surgery 45 years ago, so they will cover nothing for my back.

Other things that were done ages ago are also not covered, no matter the time span. It is nothing but a legal scam as far as I am concerned.

Edited May 30 by PeterA

[digger70]

19 hours ago, Ben Zioner said:

ou guys just don't get it. I am over 70. Our Health Plan covers thousands of people, employees, dependents  and retirees . The premium per head is about Sfr 600 (THB 24000) a month and about half of that for Children. Depending on grade the Organisation pays between 45%(Directors) and 65% (Young professionals) of the individual share, as a retiree I pay 35%. So I pay the same as a young P2 joining today.

 

So you say that you pay same as a young P2 . Thats still on about par as an other mid range insurance  I don't call that cheap. 

 Still a rip off for a cheap country.

[scubascuba3]

4 hours ago, newbee2022 said:

Get a quotation from Wrlife. They take when over 70. No access. Even preconditions are not a problem. But read the contract carefully 

What could go wrong, quick everyone sign up

[AboutThaim]

I had an inguinal hernia several years ago.  Gf took me to Ramathibodi Hospital, a teaching hospital. I spoke to a doctor who I was told was a professor of surgery.  After being quoted 150,000 baht and telling him it was more than I wanted to pay he told me if I went through the teaching side it would be a maximum of 45,000 baht.  Paid 50,000 baht up front, he performed the operation and after three days in hospital total cost was 26,400 baht. The balance was refunded.  Only a couple of students came to see me, no inconvenience.

[newbee2022]

7 minutes ago, scubascuba3 said:

What could go wrong, quick everyone sign up

If you read their offer carefully you would realise to be insured for emergency whatever it is by 💯 for the first years. After 5 years you're covered for everything 💯, even preconditions you stated when signed up. This might be the reason for low rates.

WRLife is accepted by Chiangrai RAM and Bangkok Hospital ( my experience). I'm sure every big private hospital everywhere in Thailand.

[Ben Zioner]

50 minutes ago, digger70 said:

So you say that you pay same as a young P2 . Thats still on about par as an other mid range insurance  I don't call that cheap. 

 Still a rip off for a cheap country.

It isn't a rip off at all, the cost of healthcare taken into account is Switzerland. So here I just walk into Bumrungrad, totally relaxed. We get what we pay for

[Sheryl]

6 minutes ago, newbee2022 said:

If you read their offer carefully you would realise to be insured for emergency whatever it is by 💯 for the first years. After 5 years you're covered for everything 💯, even preconditions you stated when signed up. This might be the reason for low rates.

WRLife is accepted by Chiangrai RAM and Bangkok Hospital ( my experience). I'm sure every big private hospital everywhere in Thailand.

In other words there is a 5 year moratorium period. 

[digger70]

3 minutes ago, Ben Zioner said:

It isn't a rip off at all, the cost of healthcare taken into account is Switzerland. So here I just walk into Bumrungrad, totally relaxed. We get what we pay for

Yes that maybe so. 

But for a Cheapish sort of a country why can't insurance companies  cater for the Many thousands of expats and other foreigners and some Native for a Reasonable Insurance that does't cost that much.

The government should look into this and provide  the insurance themselves. Most Retired oldies on a pension and with a lot off pre existing conditions just can't afford to pay the high Fees or it's cheaper to Not insure.

[newbee2022]

22 minutes ago, Sheryl said:

In other words there is a 5 year moratorium period. 

No, you're all time 💯 insured for emergencies.

[Ben Zioner]

17 minutes ago, digger70 said:

Yes that maybe so. 

But for a Cheapish sort of a country why can't insurance companies  cater for the Many thousands of expats and other foreigners and some Native for a Reasonable Insurance that does't cost that much.

The government should look into this and provide  the insurance themselves. Most Retired oldies on a pension and with a lot off pre existing conditions just can't afford to pay the high Fees or it's cheaper to Not insure.

We are in a third world country, so I find it legitimate that Thailand doesn't have to bear the cost of health of a group of geriatric immigrants.

 

The only way out I could imagine would agreement between Thai social security and the health systems of our countries of origin. This has been achieved within EU, but at a much larger scale, so I doubt that our group would be large enough to justify such complex, hence expensive, negotiations.

 

Otherwise even if someone would launch a group  plan for retirees in Thailand, the underwriter would be bound to come back with a very high premium as we are all in the same high risk category. No young juicy healthy P2 grade participant to level the risk.

 

A last thing, once retirees start to pay tax in Thailand they may have a stronger case to be allowed into the Thai social security, but that would be just a weak glimmer of hope, there are so many issues at stake here. Xenophobia, corruption, idiocy, etc.

 

[digger70]

6 minutes ago, Ben Zioner said:

We are in a third world country, so I find it legitimate that Thailand doesn't have to bear the cost of health of a group of geriatric immigrants.

I Didn't say that Thailand has to bear the cost.

I said that they should have maybe a government insurance that's reasonable  not like the High Fee ones that are catered for western countries  this being that Thailand is a cheaper country so one would expect a cheaper fee for insurance  but No they rip you off at a western rate to make more profit . you think that's Fair? not me.

[scubascuba3]

1 hour ago, Sheryl said:

In other words there is a 5 year moratorium period. 

why would they cover diabetes or high blood pressure related conditions etc after 5 years?

[Sheryl]

2 hours ago, digger70 said:

Yes that maybe so. 

But for a Cheapish sort of a country why can't insurance companies  cater for the Many thousands of expats and other foreigners and some Native for a Reasonable Insurance that does't cost that much.

The government should look into this and provide  the insurance themselves. Most Retired oldies on a pension and with a lot off pre existing conditions just can't afford to pay the high Fees or it's cheaper to Not insure.

Health care in Thailand is hardly cheap.

 

Private hospitals especially, are now on par with the UK and other western countries in price.

 

A single hospitalization (if for a major/complicated condition requiring ICU care etc) can easily reach 3-4  million baht in a private hospital and 1 million+ in a government hospital.

 

in fact some international insurers, based on current costs, are now grouping Thailand in a zone that includes much of western Europe.

[Sheryl]

3 hours ago, newbee2022 said:

No, you're all time 💯 insured for emergencies.

 

But there is a 5 year moratorium on anything else.

 

A significant problem IMO.

 

I now need an operation that will cost about about 550k baht. It does not qualify as an emergency, but I am in a lot of pain and will be in even more is I don't get it, and also might eventually develop an  emergency condition (and even suffer loss of function) if it is not dealt with proactively. What I need is not available through public hospitals, either.

 

If I had taken out this insurance less than 5 years ago, it would not cover me, and this would be quite a problem/cut a serious dent in my funds.

 

I had no way of predicting this 4-5 years back, either.

 

So one is taking a chance getting a policy with such a long Moratorium. Maybe it won't matter, but maybe it will.

 

 

 

 

[Kalasin Jo]

On 5/29/2024 at 11:23 AM, scubascuba3 said:

Most people don't have that luxury of continuing employer cover

And if self employed as I was, you are doomed to skyrocketing premiums

[Kalasin Jo]

2 hours ago, Ben Zioner said:

We are in a third world country,

Definition of 3rd world country please

[noobexpat]

3 minutes ago, Kalasin Jo said:

Definition of 3rd world country please

 

Imagine kalasin, but bigger 😉

[black tabby12345]

On 5/29/2024 at 8:18 AM, Tazmo said:

As I worked for the NHS in the UK, I never had Health Insurance.

 

But a few years after retiring in Thailand, I read that Insurance would be necessary to renew your visa.

Which type of retirement visa are you on?

I have been on non-immigrant O(changed from Tourist visa more than a decade ago) for years.  And it does not require health insurance. Instead, the stayers must keep at least  THB400000- in own Thai bank  account year around(THB800000 full amount for the first 3 months after its extension if you are on fund-in account method). It has been like that since 2017 as far as remember.

Edited May 30 by black tabby12345

[Ben Zioner]

20 minutes ago, Kalasin Jo said:

Definition of 3rd world country please

"Third world' refers to economically weaker nations. 'Third world' countries are generally represented by lack of basic infrastructure facilities, high poverty, and economic instability. Third world countries are behind the first world and second world countries, but ahead of the fourth world countries."

 

So 100%, isn't. Don't mention Bangkok please, as another trait of third would countries is the obscene disparity of the affluent urban minorities and the more remote underdeveloped rural areas.