New Tax Rules for Expats in Thailand Spark Concern

[ChasingTheSun]

Doesn't apply to anyone bringing in capital derived prior to 2024:

 

However, tough luck for those that need to live off

of income/capital earned after 2023.

[hotchilli]

2 hours ago, webfact said:

The move is part of a broader effort to reduce income inequality and strengthen Thailand’s economic resilience for future challenges.

How  does taxing expats on their pensions or other income help Thailands income inequality?

[Danderman123]

Just now, hotchilli said:

How  does taxing expats on their pensions or other income help Thailands income inequality?

Thailand taxing more Farangs means that HiSo can pay less tax.

[bronzedude]

A few years ago, I was informed that the US and Thailand have a tax treaty. Meaning that if a US person files a US tax return, they don't owe any income tax in Thailand. I remember when the banks were offering fairly high interest rates on short term savings instruments that a tax was levied against the earned interest. Since Thailand and the US had the tax treaty, if the income from these instruments was claimed on the US tax return, then the person could make a claim (with a Thai tax number) and be reimbursed the tax that was levied. It's been several years since I went through this process of applying for a reimbursement since the interest rate banks were offering on short term instruments was less than I could get on my savings accounts in the US. As a retiree, I think that pensions and social security are not consider as earned income. So it will be interesting to see how the tax treaty affects this new tax development.

[sungod]

11 minutes ago, Danderman123 said:

Credit cards go through a Thai clearinghouse, and transactions can be reported to the Revenue Department.

 And they will chase each transaction up?

[Richard5]

If you think that Thailand does not have the tools and capabilities to enforce this law you are wrong. My calculations indicate that if you are here over 180 days, are single and over 65, if you remit one million baht to Thailand in a tax year you will have a tax liability. And to the degree that remittance crosses the one million mark that liability goes up significantly. Everything is trackable...Wise, Credit Cards. ATM withdrawals...literally everything. If you believe that this is going to be short lived, not enforced or is lacking in details  I think you will be in for an unpleasant  surprise 

[Danderman123]

3 minutes ago, bronzedude said:

A few years ago, I was informed that the US and Thailand have a tax treaty. Meaning that if a US person files a US tax return, they don't owe any income tax in Thailand. I remember when the banks were offering fairly high interest rates on short term savings instruments that a tax was levied against the earned interest. Since Thailand and the US had the tax treaty, if the income from these instruments was claimed on the US tax return, then the person could make a claim (with a Thai tax number) and be reimbursed the tax that was levied. It's been several years since I went through this process of applying for a reimbursement since the interest rate banks were offering on short term instruments was less than I could get on my savings accounts in the US. As a retiree, I think that pensions and social security are not consider as earned income. So it will be interesting to see how the tax treaty affects this new tax development.

Your understanding of how the US tax treaty with Thai works is not correct.

 

In general, you can offset US tax paid against required payments for Thai tax. But even if you pay taxes in the US, there may still be a Thai tax liability.

 

You would have to complete a Thai tax form to know for sure.

[Mike Teavee]

1 hour ago, Mike Lister said:

One liberal estimate puts the total value of all westerns in Thailand at around 3% of GDP per year. Recent surveys have shown that less than 10% of them plan to leave as a result of the tax change, some of that will be talk. Impact?  Minimal, is my guess.

But there is also the potential impact of Expats:-

1. Choosing not to retire to Thailand
2. Spending less than 180 days in Thailand
3. Not remitting large sums of money to buy property/cars
4. Choosing to holiday more in neighbouring countries
5. Simply remitting less

Re: #5, I've already remitted what I plan to remit this year (GBP has been flying 🙂) and it's 25% of what I would normally remit (remainder of my spends will come from savings already in country), which leaves me with with the "Problem" of what to do with the rest of my income in the UK & this is where #4 comes in.

[Danderman123]

2 minutes ago, sungod said:

 And they will chase each transaction up?

My feeling is that the answer is no.

 

But, it's possible.

[RichardColeman]

3 hours ago, webfact said:

Previously, a legal loophole allowed expats to avoid income tax if they declared that their income was not earned in Thailand within the same year.

Again, I see no connection to anyone retired sending savings from abroad. I can fully support earnings being taxed in Thailand if not in another country. 

 

This is also going to potentially kill digital nomads !!

Edited May 29 by RichardColeman

[Danderman123]

2 minutes ago, Richard5 said:

If you think that Thailand does not have the tools and capabilities to enforce this law you are wrong. My calculations indicate that if you are here over 180 days, are single and over 65, if you remit one million baht to Thailand in a tax year you will have a tax liability. And to the degree that remittance crosses the one million mark that liability goes up significantly. Everything is trackable...Wise, Credit Cards. ATM withdrawals...literally everything. If you believe that this is going to be short lived, not enforced or is lacking in details  I think you will be in for an unpleasant  surprise 

My opinion is that the Revenue Department will do the necessary auditing right after the high speed rail from Don Meaung to Rayong is complete.

[bob smith]

this is going to be fun for the thais to enforce 

 

are they going to send the tax man around to my front door with a clipboard?

 

let's wait and see.

 

bob.

Edited May 29 by bob smith

[sungod]

Just now, Danderman123 said:

My feeling is that the answer is no.

 

But, it's possible.

Loads of hype at the moment, just have to sit back and see what works and what doesn't. I've been here a considerable time and really not worried about this, they cant even enforce people to wear crash helmets or stop at red lights. I haven't seen any reports on major recruiting for the revenue department to deal with all the extra work. Government departments are still using Hotmail and gmail as their addresses, there's efficiency.......

 

 

[mania]

Question...So at the end of the day if all monies I bring into Thailand to live on are from US Social Security payments & savings in the USA I need not file anything?

[tandor]

2 hours ago, Danderman123 said:

A lot of Farangs in the village have no clue about this.

Ignorance of the Law is no excuse. Late filing brings 1.50% penalty per month and failure to file a return the penalty was mentioned as being up to 100% of the tax assessed, plus possibility of imprisonment.

Up to them.

Edited May 29 by tandor
add on

[thesetat]

51 minutes ago, tgw said:

I was led to this thread by the headline "

BREAKING: Expats in Thailand to face substantial tax bills

 

"

in my email.

 

can the authors please elaborate on the substantial tax bill we will face, and why that is not an hypothetical ?

I believe it means they will increase the amounts of tax to be paid so they can prepare to pay an aging Thai society. 

[Danderman123]

11 minutes ago, Richard5 said:

If you think that Thailand does not have the tools and capabilities to enforce this law you are wrong. My calculations indicate that if you are here over 180 days, are single and over 65, if you remit one million baht to Thailand in a tax year you will have a tax liability. And to the degree that remittance crosses the one million mark that liability goes up significantly. Everything is trackable...Wise, Credit Cards. ATM withdrawals...literally everything. If you believe that this is going to be short lived, not enforced or is lacking in details  I think you will be in for an unpleasant  surprise 

 

14 minutes ago, sungod said:

 And they will chase each transaction up?

You guys can work this out.

[Danderman123]

5 minutes ago, tandor said:

Ignorance of the Law is no excuse. Late filing brings 1.50% penalty per month and failure to file a return the penalty was mentioned as being up to 100% of the tax assessed, plus possibility of imprisonment.

Up to them.

The second that the Revenue Department grabs some retiree Farang in the village and throws him into a Thai prison, thousands of Farangs will be scrambling to fill out tax forms.

Edited May 29 by Danderman123

[Mike Lister]

10 minutes ago, mania said:

Question...So at the end of the day if all monies I bring into Thailand to live on are from US Social Security payments & savings in the USA I need not file anything?

Correct. The US SSc income is exempt by treaty and the pre 2024 savings are exempt by Por162.

[tandor]

8 minutes ago, bob smith said:

this is going to be fun for the thais to enforce 

 

are they going to send the tax man around to my front door with a clipboard?

 

let's wait and see.

 

bob.

you will find Immigration Dept. may refuse your Annual Extension unless you provide your Taxation Identification Number. (This was mentioned to a couple of us who registered recently at the TRD). 

                                                             PS. Don't shoot the Messenger.

[Danderman123]

6 minutes ago, mania said:

Question...So at the end of the day if all monies I bring into Thailand to live on are from US Social Security payments & savings in the USA I need not file anything?

You are confusing two questions:

 

Do you need to fill out a Thai tax return?

 

And

 

When you fill out that return, will you have to pay anything?

[Ben Zioner]

25 minutes ago, WingFat said:

It occurs to me that there are only two countries that tax worldwide income; the USA and Eritrea of east Africa.

 

Americans get a foreign tax credit on their US taxes for taxes paid in a foreign country, so no change for them. I don't know about how it will work out for Eritreans.

 

For the expats that hail from countries that do not tax their citizens if they are out of the country for a specified time (usually it's 180 days or more) in a calendar year, they have been enjoying tax-free living while expatting in the LOS, in many cases, for decades.

 

While I sympathize with those who will find this a challenge to pay Thai taxes, the saying of "there's no free lunch" comes to mind. And the argument that these people contribute to the Thai economy in other ways, well, so does everyone else.

They might well continue to do so, by staying in Thailand 179 days, or getting an LTR visa. BTW, I haven't paid one cent of income tax since 1991, but this didn't give me a free lunch as I have paid millions in VAT and local taxes.

[ExpatOilWorker]

1 hour ago, Mike Lister said:

I'll take that bet and I'll raise you an eclair.

Are you saying, that you don't think the yearly tax eventually will be linked or part of the process for the yearly extension?

[Danderman123]

Just now, tandor said:

you will find Immigration Dept. may refuse your Annual Extension unless you provide your Taxation Identification Number. (This was mentioned to a couple of us who registered recently at the TRD). 

                                                             PS. Don't shoot the Messenger.

Reality note:

 

This is pure speculation at this moment.

[Danderman123]

Just now, ExpatOilWorker said:

Are you saying, that you don't think the yearly tax eventually will be linked or part of the process for the yearly extension?

No one knows.

[Alotoftravel]

32 minutes ago, Danderman123 said:

Credit cards go through a Thai clearinghouse, and transactions can be reported to the Revenue Department.

even foreign credit card ?

[Danderman123]

6 minutes ago, thesetat said:

I believe it means they will increase the amounts of tax to be paid so they can prepare to pay an aging Thai society. 

The Thai government pays a tiny amount of benefits to it's citizens. If they were really jammed up, they wouldn't buy that Chinese submarine.

[Danderman123]

Just now, Alotoftravel said:

even foreign credit card ?

Especially foreign credit cards.

[bob smith]

2 minutes ago, tandor said:

you will find Immigration Dept. may refuse your Annual Extension unless you provide your Taxation Identification Number. (This was mentioned to a couple of us who registered recently at the TRD). 

                                                             PS. Don't shoot the Messenger.

No problem at all for me!

 

back to 12 month ME visa from Laos.

 

bob.

[helloagain]

I seem to remember some of these answers from many months ago ???????????.  My went to a tax office last week may 2024 and after the top person asking a few questions my wife was told the agreement with the UK if I pay tax in the UK I pay no tax in Thailand as a thai tax resident. I have no UK home so I have no house in UK to rent out, I sold it 17 to 18y ago and I can prove it, I can prove I pay UK tax so I think it's just this online news drawing up old news.