New Tax Rules for Expats in Thailand Spark Concern

[Yumthai]

9 hours ago, Danderman123 said:

and then see what happens to the 100s of 1000s Farangs who don't file.

Nothing worse than what will happen to the 1,000,000s of Thai people who don't file either.

[Yumthai]

Deleted.

Edited June 3 by Yumthai
Double post

[Danderman123]

10 minutes ago, Yumthai said:

Nothing worse than what will happen to the 1,000,000s of Thai people who don't file either.

Except the Thai people don't import cash into Thailand from abroad.

 

Or worry about visa renewals.

[CallumWK]

Just my 2 cents worth.

 

I have spoken with 2 departments of the revenue office in jomtien. First the department which do the collection of the taxes, who because they couldn't answer my questions, directed me to the legal department, where I spoke with the top man.

 

I asked him, how do I prove that what I send over are savings or income.

Answer: You don't have to prove, we believe you.

Question: If so everyone gonna claim it are savings

Answer: Yes but if we do an audit and find it is income, you will be fined.

Question: So in such a case, how do I prove that is are savings.

Answer: you don't need to prove, we believe you, you don't even need to declare savings.

 

At that point, I thought it was better to let it go

Edited June 3 by CallumWK

[Yumthai]

4 minutes ago, Danderman123 said:

Except the Thai people don't import cash into Thailand from abroad.

Oh really? We don't have numbers but I suspect that all the money received by Thai people in Thailand from their own offshore accounts/relatives/friends/sponsors/... outweighs foreigners money.

[Expat68]

1 minute ago, Yumthai said:

Oh really? We don't have numbers but I suspect that all the money received by Thai people in Thailand from their own offshore accounts/relatives/friends/sponsors/... outweighs foreigners money.

My Thai wife does

[Danderman123]

24 minutes ago, Expat68 said:

My Thai wife does

As in you transfer money from abroad into your wife's bank account?

[Danderman123]

27 minutes ago, Yumthai said:

Oh really? We don't have numbers but I suspect that all the money received by Thai people in Thailand from their own offshore accounts/relatives/friends/sponsors/... outweighs foreigners money.

You think that 1,000,000s of Thais are bringing in money from abroad?

[Expat68]

1 hour ago, Danderman123 said:

As in you transfer money from abroad into your wife's bank account?

No from rented property 

[Baba Naba]

8 hours ago, Danderman123 said:

If you pay no taxes in the USA, it's possible the deductions you use in the US are not the same in Thailand. Which could mean a tax liability for you here.

 

Not likely, but possible.

 

And, like the US, you would have to fill out a tax return to prove you don't owe anything.

My disability pension and SS is not taxable. I do not claim anything. I also do not file, ever! 

[Yumthai]

2 hours ago, Danderman123 said:

You think that 1,000,000s of Thais are bringing in money from abroad?

No, I think that Thais in a whole bring in more money from abroad than foreigners.

[John Phuket]

Obviously, there are not a lot of Expats on this forum who were here 40 years ago. Back then long stay visitors had to declare at the revenue department that they had not earned any money in Thailand during their stay. Without the resulting Revenue paperwork, a farang would not get through immigration and out of the country. 

 

[redwood1]

4 hours ago, Yumthai said:

Nothing worse than what will happen to the 1,000,000s of Thai people who don't file either.

It seems only 6.5% of Thais pay any income tax in Thailand.....So we are not talking just millions of Thais who dont pay Taxes.....We are talking 10s of millions of Thais that dont pay....

 

The farang retiree expats are not even even one drop in the tax water bucket....

 

And most expats live off un-taxable Social  Security, and pensions...

[motdaeng]

10 minutes ago, redwood1 said:

And most expats live off un-taxable Social  Security, and pensions...

 

most expats? ... which nationality are we taking about? 

[redwood1]

15 minutes ago, motdaeng said:

 

most expats? ... which nationality are we taking about? 

 

Sorry I should have said many not most..

[saintdomingo]

4 hours ago, CallumWK said:

Just my 2 cents worth.

 

I have spoken with 2 departments of the revenue office in jomtien. First the department which do the collection of the taxes, who because they couldn't answer my questions, directed me to the legal department, where I spoke with the top man.s

 

I asked him, how do I prove that what I send over are savings or income.

Answer: You don't have to prove, we believe you.

Question: If so everyone gonna claim it are savings

Answer: Yes but if we do an audit and find it is income, you will be fined.

Question: So in such a case, how do I prove that is are savings.

Answer: you don't need to prove, we believe you, you don't even need to declare savings.

 

At that point, I thought it was better to let it go

It will save a lot of messing about if that is the official position next year.

 

And thank you for your valuable and informative contribution.

Edited June 3 by saintdomingo

[petedk]

On 5/30/2024 at 8:22 AM, anchadian said:

What if you transfer (Wise) all of your income to your wife or girlfriend’s Thai bank account and withdraw from that account as and when required, would that work?

We all trust our wives and GF’s 555

 

Your wife will be taxed.

 

The headline says "New tax rules for foreigners", but the new tax rules also cover Thai people.

[petedk]

This year I managed to get some tax-returns ( as I have done a few times previously), but this time the revenue department wanted a copy of every page of my passport to check that I had lived here more than 180 days.

 

So I can see how they how going to check whether you have stayed here 179 or 181 days.

[redwood1]

47 minutes ago, petedk said:

 

Your wife will be taxed.

 

The headline says "New tax rules for foreigners", but the new tax rules also cover Thai people.

 

Thais becoming tax payers?....Sir you must be joking....After the last 50 years taxing only a tiny minority pay taxes...

[motdaeng]

1 hour ago, petedk said:

This year I managed to get some tax-returns ( as I have done a few times previously), but this time the revenue department wanted a copy of every page of my passport to check that I had lived here more than 180 days.

 

So I can see how they how going to check whether you have stayed here 179 or 181 days.

 

my wife does my tax return since 10+ years for me. she is using always my pink id card, never had any problems ... 

 

 

Edited June 3 by motdaeng
spelling

[JimGant]

2 hours ago, petedk said:

On 5/30/2024 at 8:22 AM, anchadian said:

What if you transfer (Wise) all of your income to your wife or girlfriend’s Thai bank account and withdraw from that account as and when required, would that work?

We all trust our wives and GF’s 555

 

Your wife will be taxed.

 

Why would she be taxed? Her bank account is just your intermediary for receiving funds that you remit to Thailand. Self-assessment says it's you that has the obligation to declare, or not, remitted funds to Thailand as assessable income. These funds certainly aren't your wife's remitted foreign income funds.

[ukrules]

15 hours ago, CallumWK said:

Answer: you don't need to prove, we believe you, you don't even need to declare savings.

 

Yeah, they'll decide on the day of the audit and let you know if it's savings or not.

 

If you think they made a mistake and it involves tens of millions of Baht then maybe you can appeal it and it might be worth the fees to do so.

[Mike Teavee]

10 hours ago, JimGant said:

 

Why would she be taxed? Her bank account is just your intermediary for receiving funds that you remit to Thailand. Self-assessment says it's you that has the obligation to declare, or not, remitted funds to Thailand as assessable income. These funds certainly aren't your wife's remitted foreign income funds.

 

To be clear, are you saying that he would be taxed as the ultimate recipient of the money or would be taxed as the sender of the money? 

 

E.G. If a friend (not relatived) wired me money, who would be taxed in the following scenarios

1. Tax resident in Thailand wired me 600K THB with a request that I give him 50K pm?
2. Non-tax resident in Thailand wired me 600K THB for spends for a 3 month holiday?
3. Tax resident in Thailand wired me 600K THB out of the goodness of his heart?
4. Non-Tax resident in Thailand wired me 600K THB out of the goodness of his heart?  

"Fairness" would suggest he would be taxed in scenario 1, nobody would be taxed in scenario 2 & I would be taxed in scenario 3&4.

 

[CharlesHolzhauer]

19 hours ago, CallumWK said:

Just my 2 cents worth.

 

I have spoken with 2 departments of the revenue office in jomtien. First the department which do the collection of the taxes, who because they couldn't answer my questions, directed me to the legal department, where I spoke with the top man.

 

I asked him, how do I prove that what I send over are savings or income.

Answer: You don't have to prove, we believe you.

Question: If so everyone gonna claim it are savings

Answer: Yes but if we do an audit and find it is income, you will be fined.

Question: So in such a case, how do I prove that is are savings.

Answer: you don't need to prove, we believe you, you don't even need to declare savings.

 

At that point, I thought it was better to let it go

It may be helpful to read the 'Introduction to Personal Income Tax in Thailand' <https://aseannow.com/topic/1324294-introduction-to-personal-income-tax-in-thailand/#comment-18857397> in particular THE HONOUR SYSTEM AND PENALTIES .

[JimGant]

2 hours ago, Mike Teavee said:

To be clear, are you saying that he would be taxed as the ultimate recipient of the money or would be taxed as the sender of the money? 

As a tax resident, it's the sender, if the remittance is assessable income, who is responsible for the income tax. There could be a second, unrelated taxable event, if the receiver gets a gift -- or is being paid for a service or product.

[proton]

Transfer gift to wife up to 20 mil a year and or bring in cash, no tax

[CharlesHolzhauer]

5 minutes ago, proton said:

Transfer gift to wife up to 20 mil a year and or bring in cash, no tax

It may be helpful to read the 'Introduction to Personal Income Tax in Thailand' <https://aseannow.com/topic/1324294-introduction-to-personal-income-tax-in-thailand/#comment-18857397> in particular METHOD OF FUNDS TRANSFER, GIFT TAX - What the Rules Say and UNRESOLVED, CONFLICTING or UNCLEAR  ISSUES Point "S"

[Mike Teavee]

1 minute ago, JimGant said:

As a tax resident, it's the sender, if the remittance is assessable income, who is responsible for the income tax. There could be a second, unrelated taxable event, if the receiver gets a gift -- or is being paid for a service or product.

 

So any money sent from a Non-Tax resident that is not a gift or payment for a service/product is free from income tax for the receiver? - Doesn't "Feel" right to me. 

 

 

How about, a friend of mine (Works in Thailand, Higher Rate Tax payer) wants to borrow 2Million THB as a Bridging loan, I (Thai Tax Resident) send him 2Million from the UK & he pays me back in the UK when he gets some dividends/capital gains, do I still need to declare the 2Million THB as assessable income even though I won't be seeing any benefit from it? - Feels like he should be the one declaring it as assessable income as ultimately that's where the money is coming from/going to... If not it could be a way for him to pay <25% tax instead of the 35% he'd pay if he remitted it directly

[JimGant]

13 minutes ago, Mike Teavee said:

do I still need to declare the 2Million THB as assessable income even though I won't be seeing any benefit from it?

Yes. The final purpose for the remitted assessable funds makes no difference to its taxability. [However, the jury is still out on whether or not remitted funds that are a legitimate gift are exempt from income tax.]

[Mike Teavee]

5 minutes ago, JimGant said:

Yes. The final purpose for the remitted assessable funds makes no difference to its taxability. [However, the jury is still out on whether or not remitted funds that are a legitimate gift are exempt from income tax.]

But If I gave his son in the UK the money, then he (Non Thai Tax Resident) remitted it to his father there would be no tax to pay for anybody?

 

You might be right but again, it doesn't "Feel" right.