Thailand to tax residents’ foreign income irrespective of remittance

[wensiensheng]

13 hours ago, freeworld said:

Residence-based taxation

The residential tax system or residency-based tax system is the most widely used tax system in the world today.

Over 130 countries use this tax system today. Among them are pretty much all major industrialized nations. Most of the EU, Canada, Australia, New Zealand, Japan, Korea, and the list goes on.

 

This is how it works:

As soon as an individual becomes a tax-resident in the country, he automatically becomes liable to pay taxes on his total worldwide income. You can avoid being taxed by giving up your primary residence in those countries, often by cutting your residential ties (houses, apartments, and other dwellings, memberships) and spending less than 183 days there.

If this were to come to pass, spending less than 183 days here is what I will do.

 

fortunately my daughter is now 18 years old and not reliant on me any longer, therefore extending my overseas trips from 3 months a year to 6 and a bit months a year, is very doable.

 

I may even save money because I might not need a long term visa, tourist visas might be sufficient.

 

For those who say that it is only reasonable that I pay tax here, consider how much VAT I have paid over the years, 3 full time employees that I have employed over the years, the people I have employed to do work on my two houses. Thailand and those of its residents that I have employed, have done very well out of me during my 17 years of residency. 
 

This will be the straw that breaks the camels back so far as I personally am concerned.

 

 

[Cabradelmar]

Thailand's looking to jump start their flailing economy by taxing more... Great idea 🙄 they better rethink those tax tables and rewrite the foreign tax credit rules or EVERYONE (who can leave) will leave this place. On its face, this type of massive shift in taxation approach looks like something beyond their depths of understanding or capabilities.

[hitext]

14 hours ago, timendres said:

An article on Bangkok Post clearly shows that they are discussing taxing worldwide income.

Currently, only two countries on the planet do this. The USA and Eritrea.

This is a desperate act by the Thai government, and demonstrates that things are not good.

Most countries tax your worldwide income. What makes the US different is that citizens have to pay taxes to Uncle Sam, regardless of where they live (I can't comment on Eritrea).

[freeworld]

7 minutes ago, Shocked farang said:

This whole thing only shows that they live in a state of complete delusion. They have no means of enforcement of this new foreign tax regime. The only country on the planet that can do this is the US, due to the fact that the USD is the reference global currency, if a bank decides not to comply they just cut it off from USD transfer, all USD bank transfers have to go through the US. 

Check this for 2021, you think its only Thailand?

 

"According to IRS estimates, the US loses approximately $496 billion to individual tax evasion, with the majority being attributable to non-filing, underreporting, and underpayment of individual income tax[2].

In a US Senate panel statement in August 2021, IRS Commissioner Chuck Rettig said the country loses about $1 trillion to individual tax evasion annually[3]."

 

[Spilornis]

2 minutes ago, Shocked farang said:

This whole thing only shows that they live in a state of complete delusion. They have no means of enforcement of this new foreign tax regime. The only country on the planet that can do this is the US, due to the fact that the USD is the reference global currency, if a bank decides not to comply they just cut it off from USD transfer, all USD bank transfers have to go through the US. 

The US is the biggest advocate for exchange of cross border financial information. It's just a matter of running cross checking computer programs. If there is a problem it's with cross identification. For example Thailand won't necessarily have tax identification numbers for foreigners resident in Thailand

[wensiensheng]

19 minutes ago, koolkarl said:

I have written this a number of times and even my prior comments were deleted for  scaring you dear readers.  Well here we are.  The sole purpose of CRS is for a tax resident to report their world income and this is an OECD standard which Thailand is now a member.  If you hadn't noticed, a Thai passport can now visit the EU without a visa.  This is related to the CRS agreement too.  Now if your address on April 30 was in Thailand and you have foreign income, this info will be automatically sent to the Thai tax dept. every year you are here.  And you get nothing for your money, no health care, no immigrant status.  If you are worth anything, strongly suggest to look for another country as I have already done. 

I don’t believe you are correct in saying that a Thai passport holder can visit the “EU” without a visa. You may be referring to the Schengen area, but it still isn’t true.

 

Please provide evidence to back up your statement or stop spreading false information.

[J Branche]

Guess it is time to pool money for lawyers and lobbyists.  Zero chance this will happen without Catastrophic consequences.  Everyone is Everyone and High Net Worth Individuals, Companies and other will fight hard to make sure this does Not happen.  

 

I'm sure next week it will be a big misunderstanding.

[wensiensheng]

13 hours ago, BigBruv said:

On the plus side, if implemented sufficiently aggressively, this will clear out an awful lot of 'farang riff raff' (tm).

 

If so, I might actually move out there full time : )

Other way round I think. “Riff raff” won’t be bothered about paying tax, they tend not to be rich, so will stay. Well to do people will vote with their feet.

[Presnock]

1 hour ago, Shocked farang said:

Thailand is trying to imitate the US that taxes its tax residents globally, the only countries that do that are the US and Eritrea. Only the US actually has the means to enforce it. Another gimmick from this government to waste people's time and attention! 

but don't ignore the fact that the US also has an exclusion on foreign-earned income when filing US taxes each year.  We don't get penalized twice unless one is earning very much.

[Neeranam]

Nothing to do with foreigners, they care after rich Thais. 

They can't touch my foreign income if I don't bring it into Thailand. 

[bob smith]

6 minutes ago, J Branche said:

I'm sure next week it will be a big misunderstanding

I am with you on that!

 

If this gets to the implementation stage, which it may very well, but I highly doubt it, then it would be a complete failure.

 

A total disaster for Thailand and the economy when basically everyone does a runner with all their money at the 11th hour.

 

bob.

[jojothai]

20 minutes ago, koolkarl said:

I have written this a number of times and even my prior comments were deleted for  scaring you dear readers.  Well here we are.  The sole purpose of CRS is for a tax resident to report their world income and this is an OECD standard which Thailand is now a member.  If you hadn't noticed, a Thai passport can now visit the EU without a visa.  This is related to the CRS agreement too.  Now if your address on April 30 was in Thailand and you have foreign income, this info will be automatically sent to the Thai tax dept. every year you are here.  And you get nothing for your money, no health care, no immigrant status.  If you are worth anything, strongly suggest to look for another country as I have already done. 

Under the CRS there is no exchamge of information until the countries make an agreement.

The agreements in place can be checked on the website.

I find it strange that many articles state that thailand now implements the CRS, when the banks and other financial institutions that i use here have not requested the relevant information.

Its the first thing required.

TIT, its anybody's guess as to what is being imlemented or not.

Just like the unknown on the taxation now.

Do we think all the thais have a tax reference to give to the bank?

[Neeranam]

8 minutes ago, wensiensheng said:

I don’t believe you are correct in saying that a Thai passport holder can visit the “EU” without a visa. You may be referring to the Schengen area, but it still isn’t true.

 

Please provide evidence to back up your statement or stop spreading false information.

The agreement is being worked on at the moment. 

[Presnock]

51 minutes ago, Bangkok Barry said:

 

Doesn't really apply to me. My income level in the UK means I pay no tax regardless of where I live, but you are saying the Thai government rules about my UK income take precedence over UK law. That's interesting.

I blv one must pay tax somewhere, if not in country of citizenship then in country of tax residency.  Problems exist if DTA is not clear from about taxes.  Need to have govts agree and citizens to inform their govt of being unfair or not.

[pluto_manibo]

[Presnock]

36 minutes ago, KhunLA said:

Maybe that's their goal, and with some of the behavior of some expats, can you blame them.    Considering most of the hatred of TH and Thais on this forum, I can wonder why they would want many here.

Maybe they think this and blv they will reap big $$$ from those having to leave sooner rather than later but, if there is a mass exodus now, you can bet there will not be any replacements coming from the free world that would buy condos, houses, cars, local hospitalization, visa renewals etc.  Costly for the current govt for sure in my opinion.  

[Neeranam]

42 minutes ago, nickmondo said:

its just one piece of bull<deleted> after the other in this country.

I always said i would never buy a house here, and in a moment of stupidness, I did.

Not that expensive though, at 5 million baht, so not a huge deal

For sure I will be using Thailand as my home base for 1 day under 6 mnths a year.

Vietnam for 3, maybe Philippines for 3 months also

Might even buy myself a cheap house in the north of England from Auction for under 10k GBP.

I have had it with the bull<deleted> here now...........its just ridiculous.

Still a lot to enjoy here however, the normal Thai people, the food, the countryside, the beaches, etc........and also my Thai GF.

So i will ljust cut myself off from this crap and enjoy for under 6 months.

Will keep Retirement Extension though, as cheaper and easier than any other method, unless they do actually bring n the 60 day visa, and that might be an option, but that does not work for six months, even with extensions.

You are, of course, not forced to live here. 

Lucky for you you can get a long term visa so easily. Not so easy for a Thai to retire in your country. 

BTW, you are getting upset over nothing. 

[lordgrinz]

1 hour ago, freeworld said:

I was always under the impression that everyone must pay their fair share.

 Define "Fair share"

[Presnock]

35 minutes ago, koolkarl said:

I have written this a number of times and even my prior comments were deleted for  scaring you dear readers.  Well here we are.  The sole purpose of CRS is for a tax resident to report their world income and this is an OECD standard which Thailand is now a member.  If you hadn't noticed, a Thai passport can now visit the EU without a visa.  This is related to the CRS agreement too.  Now if your address on April 30 was in Thailand and you have foreign income, this info will be automatically sent to the Thai tax dept. every year you are here.  And you get nothing for your money, no health care, no immigrant status.  If you are worth anything, strongly suggest to look for another country as I have already done. 

Thailand has applied for membership in the OECD but it takes years and they need to meet all the qualifications...odds are the govt will change and the new one might not want to join the OECD though they do have some agreements currently with the OECD.  Once the final bill(s) are published, then we will see what we as expats need to do to be happy.

[KhunLA]

1 minute ago, Presnock said:

Maybe they think this and blv they will reap big $$$ from those having to leave sooner rather than later but, if there is a mass exodus now, you can bet there will not be any replacements coming from the free world that would buy condos, houses, cars, local hospitalization, visa renewals etc.  Costly for the current govt for sure in my opinion.  

But they are opening the door a bit wider for tourist, who come, spend their money, and leave.  Making it more friendly for all, and then some in the future ...

... alphabet folks

... ganga smokers

... sex tourists (soon legal maybe)

... gamblers (casinos back on table)

 

Out with the vocal dissenters, in the the OMG folks ... fair trade in their eyes.

[Presnock]

Just now, KhunLA said:

But they are opening the door a bit wider for tourist, who come, spend their money, and leave.  Making it more friendly for all, and then some in the future ...

... alphabet folks

... ganga smokers

... sex tourists (soon legal maybe)

... gamblers (casinos back on table)

 

Out with the vocal dissenters, in the the OMG folks ... fair trade in their eyes.

definitely hard to argue with you on this issue.  They will learn one reaps what one sows (maybe).

[helloagain]

16 hours ago, johng said:

That seems totally unworkable  crazy and unjust !

There is an agreement between your country and Thailand. Everybody has different circumstances and they can never know EVERYBODIES DIFFERENT CIRCUMSTANCES.  Don't forget what the papers all think........don't let the truth get in the way of a good story. Just click bait.

[freeworld]

2 minutes ago, lordgrinz said:

 Define "Fair share"

A reasonable amount for the common good.

 

"The Common Good

A tax regime that focuses on the good of the society as a whole might conclude that a primary function of the tax code should be the redistribution of wealth. For example, generational wealth may be taxed by a high inheritance tax, or high earners may be taxed more to bring their pay in line with other workers.

Most advocates of tax fairness tend to advocate for closing loopholes in the tax code that allow certain individuals and corporations to avoid paying taxes altogether, although every one of those loopholes is strongly defended by individuals or groups who believe they deserve special treatment"

[Presnock]

36 minutes ago, thesetat said:

I am still curious about how this country can tax income that is earned and deposited overseas? If it is earned in another country then their respective banks would be reporting it to the local tax. But they can only do that because you signed releases to allow it when opening the account. Thailand banks may have new rules to make you sign a release so they can gain this information. But what about older accounts? Would anyone actually sign something new to allow them this authorization? None of my Thailand banks have my tax or income information other than receiving wire transfers from another country. If they request blanket permission to access my banks private information I would refuse and take my money from their bank. If they request access to my tax information from abroad I would not be able to give it since I never file taxes there. Un-taxable income is not required to file a tax return. So there is no record for them to check anyway. 

Given the really bad security issues dealing with banks leaking your personal information make me think it is not a good idea to provide banks with data from my country. 

https://www.bangkokpost.com/thailand/general/2425127/police-nab-state-officials-selling-user-information-to-scammers

https://thethaiger.com/news/national/thai-bank-officer-nabbed-for-selling-customer-data-in-nonthaburi

Does anyone else feel there may be risks in giving more information to the banks in Thailand than is absolutely necessary or to the government about the money we have or make outside of Thailand? 

security on personal info is definitely at risk here.  Due to being poor, seems workers who do have access through their jobs are more than willing to release that info.

[Cornishman]

On 5/30/2024 at 5:50 AM, Coxy said:

Looks like I will be spending at least 6 months in Cambodia or Laos.  I will not be donating anything to this government 

 

15 hours ago, bg53 said:

If Thailand taxes on a worldwide basis, there will be a mass exodus of expats.

The time to worry is when this becomes part of the annual visa renewal...I am looking at Vietnam for my next step.

[beammeup]

So if you are living off savings offshore you will not have to pay tax if it is remitted now?

[Ben Zioner]

14 minutes ago, lordgrinz said:

 Define "Fair share"

Flat rate 13% , from first cent earned.

[freeworld]

8 minutes ago, Cornishman said:

 

The time to worry is when this becomes part of the annual visa renewal...I am looking at Vietnam for my next step.

Vietnam

 

Individuals who are tax residents in
Vietnam are subject to PIT on worldwide income. Income includes income from all sources including what may be understood to be of a capital nature. Individuals who are not tax residents in Vietnam are only subject to PIT on Vietnamese sourced
income.
Domestic PIT rules are subject to the application of a relevant international tax agreement.
Tax residency
Tax residency in Vietnam is determined by reference to meeting one of the following criteria:
₋ Residing in Vietnam for more than
183 days in a calendar year or 12 consecutive months following the date of arrival; or
₋ Present in Vietnam for less than 183 days in a tax year, but maintains a permanent residence in Vietnam and cannot prove tax residency in another country. Otherwise, they will be treated as a tax non-resident

[Surasak]

15 hours ago, Bday Prang said:

only "platforms" apparently

My "Platforms" have worn so thin I had to throw them out!

[lordgrinz]

11 minutes ago, freeworld said:

A reasonable amount for the common good.

 

"The Common Good

A tax regime that focuses on the good of the society as a whole might conclude that a primary function of the tax code should be the redistribution of wealth. For example, generational wealth may be taxed by a high inheritance tax, or high earners may be taxed more to bring their pay in line with other workers.

Most advocates of tax fairness tend to advocate for closing loopholes in the tax code that allow certain individuals and corporations to avoid paying taxes altogether, although every one of those loopholes is strongly defended by individuals or groups who believe they deserve special treatment"

 

Sounds like communism.