Thailand to tax residents’ foreign income irrespective of remittance

[JimGant]

19 minutes ago, tomkenet said:

But In my home country I get free good quality schools for my kids, good quality healthcare and I get voting rights and equally treatment. 

The most scary part however is having to deal with a revenue department with bad English skill.

 

Sounds like you're a perfect candidate for not moving.

[SiamAndy]

20 minutes ago, tomkenet said:

Thai taxes will probably be lower in many cases. But In my home country I get free good quality schools for my kids, good quality healthcare and I get voting rights and equally treatment. 

The most scary part however is having to deal with a revenue department with bad English skill.

 

The older retired expats I know in Thailand just want to be left alone to live the last years of their life there hassle free. The last thing they want to do is have to deal  with intrusive Thai bureaucracy  and having to compile, prepare and file taxes every year. Judging by the past actions of the Thai government with their visa rule changes, reporting requirements, past non enforced rules being enforced on a whim and now taxes, what would come next? Those who don't have a spouse and/or family here need to vote with their feet and find greener pastures.

[tomkenet]

Just saw a good video on the subject.

 

 

[lordgrinz]

Interesting video.....especially the US couple example where he speaks about ATM and Credit Card purchases.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ljy7qdhy4VU&t=94s

[shdmn]

One thing that sounds like a bit of a loophole to me is ATMs.  If you take money out of the ATM from your home country bank, it's not considered repatriated, so not subject to Thai tax. It's only considered repatriated when you transfer money to a Thai bank account.   I am assuming it's the same if you use western union or some other cash pickup service.  So if you used ATMs or cash pickup as much as possible you can reduce your Thai tax exposure quite a bit.

Edited June 29 by shdmn

[DrPhibes]

On 6/28/2024 at 1:35 AM, Gknrd said:

 

Don't let Youtube and posts here sway you in the least. I am not rich by any stretch of the imagination. But, even if you have a few bucks to invest you would never do it in Thailand. Contrary to the delusional thinking of the Thai's. Most people that have a few dollars don't trow it away.  Problem is Thailand has attracted the people that sell out and throw their money away very fast .  It gives the impression all westerners are the same. So they target them. Now that the government is involved in that mindset, they will see just how fast that stops. And it won't bring in vast sums of money like they predict. Just the opposite will happen.

As far as the US helping Thailand with educating and helping Thailand implement the tax scheme. It is all part of the plan to be nice, and helpful in SE Asia. Trying to help relations. A Cold War is here with China, and the US is just trying to show and hopefully get support in suppressing China. It is going on in all countries that have a huge China presence. 

First thing most investors do is look at the health and prosperity of the Stock Market, China is a joke, Thailand is not far behind. Look at the millionaire maps here. People go where the money is. The US is one of the top on the list. China is the last on the list. Thailand will go down like China. All authoritarian countries are the same.  They start with a boom then go down in flames.

 

Ya, just looked over the high dividend paying stocks on the SET.  A good chunk of those have a dividend yields lower than CD rates and are not growth stocks by the look of their stock prices over the last 12 months.

[ukrules]

5 hours ago, lordgrinz said:

Interesting video.....especially the US couple example where he speaks about ATM and Credit Card purchases.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ljy7qdhy4VU&t=94s

 

Yeah, I'm not so sure he's correct on that - I certainly wouldn't use that method and rely on it to not come back and bite me a few years down the road.

 

 

 

[shdmn]

8 minutes ago, ukrules said:

 

Yeah, I'm not so sure he's correct on that - I certainly wouldn't use that method and rely on it to not come back and bite me a few years down the road.

 

So you don't believe an actual tax lawyer in Thailand, but you will believe anonymous comments on an internet forum overrun with clowns and conspiracy theorists?

Edited June 29 by shdmn

[Mike Lister]

2 hours ago, ukrules said:

 

Yeah, I'm not so sure he's correct on that - I certainly wouldn't use that method and rely on it to not come back and bite me a few years down the road.

 

 

 

I just wrote almost exactly the same thing in another thread on this subject, I don't think he's correct.

[Mike Lister]

2 hours ago, shdmn said:

So you don't believe an actual tax lawyer in Thailand, but you will believe anonymous comments on an internet forum overrun with clowns and conspiracy theorists?

I don't believe him.

[lordgrinz]

4 hours ago, ukrules said:

 

Yeah, I'm not so sure he's correct on that - I certainly wouldn't use that method and rely on it to not come back and bite me a few years down the road.

 

 

 

 

I know, but still caught my attention as soon as he said it.....I would like if he expanded on the reasoning, I want to make full use of my Wise card if this can be done, and one of my Credit Cards also. 

[Presnock]

4 hours ago, ukrules said:

 

Yeah, I'm not so sure he's correct on that - I certainly wouldn't use that method and rely on it to not come back and bite me a few years down the road.

 

 

 

there are an abundance of "experts" including the director of the American tax agency, and some other tax agents here in Thailand videos on youtube - just google Youtube search - world wide taxation of income in Thailand - look for ones less than 2 weeks old so you don't just get all the stuff one has heard too many times already plus all the comments here of disgruntled folks.  One agent says that it is not necessary for ALL to get a tax ID currently unless one actually has assessable income into Thailand, severaly have mentioned that foreign credit cards and ATM's will not be charged as remitted into Thailand, but these are their interpretation and not a definite decision by the Thai Revenue Department.  Another US tax agent says that he feels only 20% of expats here will be affected here in 2024 while 80% won't be affected at all.  Anyway there are a lot more videos on 2024 if interested still in this, and many on the world wide income taxation that is "under discussion" and some of the agents feel that it will 2-3 years before that could be implemented - but, like all the agents and experts we have been listening to since the November announcement are only guessing - some based on experience but then that should tell them that just about anything could happen including droppin that world wide income taxation until some later date as they may have seen the numbers of expats that left this past week - anybody have any idea on how many did leave? For the rest of us we need to CHILL and carry on as if nothing will bother us.

[ukrules]

4 hours ago, shdmn said:

So you don't believe an actual tax lawyer in Thailand, but you will believe anonymous comments on an internet forum overrun with clowns and conspiracy theorists?

 

I believe no anonymous anything, I will only act on absolute facts.

 

Nonsense can come from anywhere, even lawyers!

 

[TheAppletons]

27 minutes ago, ukrules said:

 

I believe no anonymous anything, I will only act on absolute facts.

 

Nonsense can come from anywhere, even lawyers!

 

 

  You misspelled "especially".  

 

  (Bolding in the quotation is mine.)

[Mike Teavee]

5 hours ago, shdmn said:

So you don't believe an actual tax lawyer in Thailand, but you will believe anonymous comments on an internet forum overrun with clowns and conspiracy theorists?

Is he really a Tax Lawyer? - The video hints at it but doesn't say for sure & he doesn't look Thai to me [Lawyer is a restricted Professions in Thailand]... 

 

If you are a professional lawyer in your home country and would like to practice your profession in Thailand, you should be aware that foreigners are prohibited to work and provide services in legal counselling, litigation and others such as representing as a lawyer in all types of cases, acting on behalf of clients in legal matters, drafting contracts or making legal documents.

 

https://msnagroup.com/can-a-foreign-lawyer-work-in-thailand/#:~:text=If you are a professional,on behalf of clients in

 

 

[Lorry]

8 hours ago, shdmn said:

One thing that sounds like a bit of a loophole to me is ATMs.  If you take money out of the ATM from your home country bank, it's not considered repatriated, so not subject to Thai tax. It's only considered repatriated when you transfer money to a Thai bank account.   I am assuming it's the same if you use western union or some other cash pickup service.  So if you used ATMs or cash pickup as much as possible you can reduce your Thai tax exposure quite a bit.

The TRD has said more than once,  eg in the video with the Swiss embassy,  that all these things are considered remittances. You are very wrong. 

 

This has been discussed in the old main tax thread (the  one with 200+ pages)

[lordgrinz]

11 minutes ago, Mike Teavee said:

Is he really a Tax Lawyer? - The video hints at it but doesn't say for sure & he doesn't look Thai to me [Lawyer is a restricted Professions in Thailand]... 

 

If you are a professional lawyer in your home country and would like to practice your profession in Thailand, you should be aware that foreigners are prohibited to work and provide services in legal counselling, litigation and others such as representing as a lawyer in all types of cases, acting on behalf of clients in legal matters, drafting contracts or making legal documents.

 

https://msnagroup.com/can-a-foreign-lawyer-work-in-thailand/#:~:text=If you are a professional,on behalf of clients in

 

 

 

He is an Italian Lawyer, but the chairmen and managing director of MPG.

 

I found this article explaining who he is and little more about the company.

https://expatlifeinthailand.com/mpg-20th-anniversary/

 

[Mike Teavee]

25 minutes ago, lordgrinz said:

 

He is an Italian Lawyer, but the chairmen and managing director of MPG.

 

I found this article explaining who he is and little more about the company.

https://expatlifeinthailand.com/mpg-20th-anniversary/

 

Can't see any articles germane to this guy on that link but I made the point as somebody was holding him up to be an authority on Thai Tax Law and he's not a Thai Tax Lawyer. 

 

I remember watching the 1st video & thinking this guy was talking out of his ass, his comment about "Only money sent from your offshore bank account to your Thai Bank account counts" is ridiculous.

 

 

 

 

Edited June 30 by Mike Teavee

[Mike Lister]

6 minutes ago, Mike Teavee said:

Can't see any articles germane to this guy on that link but I made the point as somebody was holding him up to be an authority on Thai Tax Law and he's not a Thai Tax Lawyer. 

 

I remember watching the 1st video & thinking this guy was talking out of his ass, his comment about "Only money sent from your offshore bank account to your Thai Bank account counts" is ridiculous.

 

 

 

 

Agreed, too many brain farts for me.

[lordgrinz]

15 minutes ago, Mike Teavee said:

Can't see any articles germane to this guy on that link but I made the point as somebody was holding him up to be an authority on Thai Tax Law and he's not a Thai Tax Lawyer. 

 

I remember watching the 1st video & thinking this guy was talking out of his ass, his comment about "Only money sent from your offshore bank account to your Thai Bank account counts" is ridiculous.

 

To each their own, but with so many different perspectives on this issue, and the many more that will happen with tax preparers, tax lawyers, different RD offices, etc.....just leaves this all a mess for Expats, just look at the way Immigration Offices handle things differently. Thailand should probably start by compliance within in its own government agencies, before implementing new laws/rules/etc. I wish I had a crystal ball, I would like to see all the tax nightmares people go through the next few years......because I can guarantee there will be many.

 

Waiting for the first expat to post that RD didn't accept a foreign bank/financial statement they thought proved pre-2024 "savings" without notarization, an Embassy stamp, and MFA stamps that will never happen. 

[Lorry]

29 minutes ago, Mike Teavee said:

Can't see any articles germane to this guy on that link

From that link:

 

"Mr. Luca Bernardinetti

 

A third generation Italian lawyer, Luca Bernardinetti is Chairman and Managing Partner of the Mahanakorn Partners Group. He leads the Banking and Finance division at MPG, which provides trade, corporate and project finance advice, as well as legal advice for cross-border financing. Over the past 20 years, Luca has led his team in structuring equity and debt financing for infrastructure and public-private partnership projects, working with highly rated banks and insurance providers.

 

Under his expertise and leadership, MPG has successfully undertaken several complex financing transactions, assisting private multinationals, state owned enterprises, and government agencies, to secure multi billion dollar lines of credit for infrastructure development projects.

 

Apart from his roles at MPG, he is the former President of the European Chamber of Commerce (EABC), member of the ICC Banking Commission, and Chairman of the Business Economics Committee of the American Chamber of Commerce (AMCHAM) in Thailand, and is a member of the Board of the Thai-Italian Chamber of Commerce. He frequently lectures at ASEAN universities, including the National University of Singapore (NUS) and Chulalongkorn University in Thailand (at the business and law schools). Over the past decade or so, he has been interviewed by several prominent global news outlets, such as BBC World Business Report, CNN and The New York Times, and several other respected forums, on matters of business, economics, and finance, and is seen as a competent and talented international legal advisor and commentator."

 

So, he may not be a Thai tax lawyer, but he probably knows a lot more about thai tax than I

 

 

 

[Presnock]

5 minutes ago, Lorry said:

From that link:

 

"Mr. Luca Bernardinetti

 

A third generation Italian lawyer, Luca Bernardinetti is Chairman and Managing Partner of the Mahanakorn Partners Group. He leads the Banking and Finance division at MPG, which provides trade, corporate and project finance advice, as well as legal advice for cross-border financing. Over the past 20 years, Luca has led his team in structuring equity and debt financing for infrastructure and public-private partnership projects, working with highly rated banks and insurance providers.

 

Under his expertise and leadership, MPG has successfully undertaken several complex financing transactions, assisting private multinationals, state owned enterprises, and government agencies, to secure multi billion dollar lines of credit for infrastructure development projects.

 

Apart from his roles at MPG, he is the former President of the European Chamber of Commerce (EABC), member of the ICC Banking Commission, and Chairman of the Business Economics Committee of the American Chamber of Commerce (AMCHAM) in Thailand, and is a member of the Board of the Thai-Italian Chamber of Commerce. He frequently lectures at ASEAN universities, including the National University of Singapore (NUS) and Chulalongkorn University in Thailand (at the business and law schools). Over the past decade or so, he has been interviewed by several prominent global news outlets, such as BBC World Business Report, CNN and The New York Times, and several other respected forums, on matters of business, economics, and finance, and is seen as a competent and talented international legal advisor and commentator."

 

So, he may not be a Thai tax lawyer, but he probably knows a lot more about thai tax than I

 

 

 

Yes, foreign lawyers are allowed to work here as consultants and advisors on legal matters.  I have seen this guy on many videos talking about the tax issues.  Speaks well, but again, until the final papers are published on any tax changes, and then the Thai Revenue Dept gives their input on individual finanacial/tax issues, nothing any of these agents or consultants tells us could be right or wrong.  I have heard one of these guys on youtube talking about any foreigner with a financial system that is not simple, will have to have a Thai tax agent help him with the tax forms.  Several "agents" have mentioned that their office plans to expand greatly! to handle all the queries and filings.  Just saying that the more days that pass, the new stories come out, the more ammo these agents get for having a field dayl when the final paper is published.  Glad mine is really simple.  Good luck to everyone on these issues.  

[freeworld]

14 minutes ago, Lorry said:

From that link:

 

"Mr. Luca Bernardinetti

 

A third generation Italian lawyer, Luca Bernardinetti is Chairman and Managing Partner of the Mahanakorn Partners Group. He leads the Banking and Finance division at MPG, which provides trade, corporate and project finance advice, as well as legal advice for cross-border financing. Over the past 20 years, Luca has led his team in structuring equity and debt financing for infrastructure and public-private partnership projects, working with highly rated banks and insurance providers.

 

Under his expertise and leadership, MPG has successfully undertaken several complex financing transactions, assisting private multinationals, state owned enterprises, and government agencies, to secure multi billion dollar lines of credit for infrastructure development projects.

 

Apart from his roles at MPG, he is the former President of the European Chamber of Commerce (EABC), member of the ICC Banking Commission, and Chairman of the Business Economics Committee of the American Chamber of Commerce (AMCHAM) in Thailand, and is a member of the Board of the Thai-Italian Chamber of Commerce. He frequently lectures at ASEAN universities, including the National University of Singapore (NUS) and Chulalongkorn University in Thailand (at the business and law schools). Over the past decade or so, he has been interviewed by several prominent global news outlets, such as BBC World Business Report, CNN and The New York Times, and several other respected forums, on matters of business, economics, and finance, and is seen as a competent and talented international legal advisor and commentator."

 

So, he may not be a Thai tax lawyer, but he probably knows a lot more about thai tax than I

 

 

 

Do not see anything in that which qualifies him as a tax attorney. ( eg. specific post graduate diploma or masters degree in tax and specifically Thai tax law)

 

 

Edited June 30 by freeworld

[tomkenet]

I assume everyone is aware the ATM question is not relevant to the topic of this thread "irrespective of remittance"

This is only relevant to today's tax interpretation.

 

[garygooner]

4 hours ago, Presnock said:

For the rest of us we need to CHILL and carry on as if nothing will bother us.

I think you need to add  ....  but have a plan B ready just in case. 

[Presnock]

1 hour ago, garygooner said:

I think you need to add  ....  but have a plan B ready just in case. 

Actually, unless they wait until 2025 to put out the final paper on this, I think we will have time to digest the current year (2024) but I also believe that if they are going to go world wide income programs then it will take some time for that LAW to pass ... my feelings anyway.

[Presnock]

10 hours ago, shdmn said:

So you don't believe an actual tax lawyer in Thailand, but you will believe anonymous comments on an internet forum overrun with clowns and conspiracy theorists?

actually I take everything said on these financial issues as guesses, some more probable or possible than others, but all are still guesses no matter who is making the statement.  Even the TRD folks that sit in on the webinars are only guessing to as it doesn't appear that EVERYONE who has a vote on the issures agrees totally with everything.  We probably will have to wait until the end of this year or early next year just to get the actual gazette report on this 2024 program as that is when the tax forms are due.  I sure have no idea what will happen nor when it will happen.  I thank whatever reason my finances are so simple so that I can totally relax...if the next world wide income program is birthed here, I still don't think I will leave Thailand unless the tax burden zoooooooooms!  good luck to all of us.

[Presnock]

there is another interesting video done a week ago on youtube - "ChocolatemaninThailand" interviewed Thomas Hardin, "the Director of th American International Tax Advisors" concerning the worldwide income tax program but not a whole lot of information that hasn't been suggested concerning the program but he is an American with a lot of experience I guess here in Thailand.  He does say they plan to increase manning both farang and especially Thai advisors once they know what is happening and when.  He says it will definitely take an advisor to help one do the Thai taxes other than the really simple ones.  But we just must continue to wait so that WE OURSELVES can see the final program that the Thai RD has planned for expats.  Good luck to us all.

[tomkenet]

39 minutes ago, Presnock said:

there is another interesting video done a week ago on youtube - "ChocolatemaninThailand" interviewed Thomas Hardin, "the Director of th American International Tax Advisors" concerning the worldwide income tax program but not a whole lot of information that hasn't been suggested concerning the program but he is an American with a lot of experience I guess here in Thailand.  He does say they plan to increase manning both farang and especially Thai advisors once they know what is happening and when.  He says it will definitely take an advisor to help one do the Thai taxes other than the really simple ones.  But we just must continue to wait so that WE OURSELVES can see the final program that the Thai RD has planned for expats.  Good luck to us all.

Sounds like he hasn't been updated on the P.O. 162.  (5-6min into the video). Also keep talking about 183 days, which is wrong.

Stop doing your own research!

Seriously!

Not very impressed.

 

 

Edited June 30 by tomkenet

[Presnock]

12 minutes ago, tomkenet said:

Sounds like he hasn't been updated on the P.O. 162.  (5-6min into the video). Also keep talking about 183 days, which is wrong.

Stop doing your own research!

Seriously!

Not very impressed.

 

 

what research.  I have only a us govt pension - dta protected, ltr no 90-day reports, royal protected after DTA so like I said I just have seen some videos that folks tell me about so I check to see that is all, I don't really need to bother with any of the crap folks spread...especially when they deeply go into their income finances..like I could really care if even if I had a clue as to what they were saying.  anyway hope you and your taxes are okay once we get the word (s) on them from the TRD.