Thailand to tax residents’ foreign income irrespective of remittance

[Presnock]

1 hour ago, Ben Zioner said:

I watched the video of the French embassy, the question was asked, and the answer was clear.

some of the youtube videos also mentioned that ATM and credit card charges would not count as remittances into Thailand but I am not going to go through them again as it doesn't matter to me

[Mike Lister]

Just now, Presnock said:

some of the youtube videos also mentioned that ATM and credit card charges would not count as remittances into Thailand but I am not going to go through them again as it doesn't matter to me

I agree, it doesn't matter to me either, except in the context of understanding whether the source of the information is reliable or not......I say not.

[Presnock]

4 minutes ago, Mike Lister said:

I agree, it doesn't matter to me either, except in the context of understanding whether the source of the information is reliable or not......I say not.

Mike is so correct!  No one really knows for sure, even the Thai RD folks haven't all been read in it seems, and until we see the final nothing could be even close to resembling all that we read here.

[Mike Lister]

2 minutes ago, Presnock said:

Mike is so correct!  No one really knows for sure, even the Thai RD folks haven't all been read in it seems, and until we see the final nothing could be even close to resembling all that we read here.

I'm guessing when I say I think a lot of these things are probably new territory for the TRD, things they probably winged it in the past but now need real and proper answers, that's why there's so much confusion, silence and mixed answers.

[Ben Zioner]

24 minutes ago, Presnock said:

some of the youtube videos also mentioned that ATM and credit card charges would not count as remittances into Thailand but I am not going to go through them again as it doesn't matter to me

I mention ONE video, the full record of the meeting organised at the Alliance Française. It lasts one hour and a half and the main language is French, hence no link here. 

[Mike Teavee]

Just now, Ben Zioner said:

I mention ONE video, the full record of the meeting organised at the Alliance Française. It lasts one hour and a half and the main language is French, hence no link here. 

Although I'm "Ok" in (Schoolboy) French, I don't fancy trying to sit through 1.5 hours of it so can I ask... Did it say the same thing & ATM withdrawals/ Credit card usage wouldn't be considered as remittance?

 

 No use to me as my UK Bank charges me a fortune to withdraw money overseas but I can imagine US guys with Schwab accounts would be very happy if that's the case. 

 

 

 

[Ben Zioner]

4 minutes ago, Mike Teavee said:

Although I'm "Ok" in (Schoolboy) French, I don't fancy trying to sit through 1.5 hours of it so can I ask... Did it say the same thing & ATM withdrawals/ Credit card usage wouldn't be considered as remittance?

They are remittance.

[Yellowtail]

51 minutes ago, Ben Zioner said:

They are remittance.

But that was not the question. 

[Mike Teavee]

1 minute ago, Yellowtail said:

But that was not the question. 

That was my question (which Ben replied to) 
 

What question did you have in mind? 

[Mike Lister]

The question of whether those remittances are assessable income is far more complex because the answer depends on the nature, source and origin of funds, in the home bank account from which the remittance was made. If savings, no, if income, probably yes.

[Presnock]

1 minute ago, Mike Lister said:

The question of whether those remittances are assessable income is far more complex because the answer depends on the nature, source and origin of funds, in the home bank account from which the remittance was made. If savings, no, if income, probably yes.

 

1 minute ago, Mike Lister said:

The question of whether those remittances are assessable income is far more complex because the answer depends on the nature, source and origin of funds, in the home bank account from which the remittance was made. If savings, no, if income, probably yes.

we will prob get the TRD consideration of this subject by 2 January 2025 as 1 Jan is a national holiday and all will be partying or tired from that same thiing as they finally have the final version out!

[lordgrinz]

1 hour ago, Ben Zioner said:

They are remittance.

 

Yes, but how would you apply assessable income to a credit card purchase?

[Mike Lister]

9 minutes ago, lordgrinz said:

 

Yes, but how would you apply assessable income to a credit card purchase?

It's not about what you purchased, it's about the source and origin of the funds used to pay the CC bill.

[Yellowtail]

12 minutes ago, Mike Lister said:

The question of whether those remittances are assessable income is far more complex because the answer depends on the nature, source and origin of funds, in the home bank account from which the remittance was made. If savings, no, if income, probably yes.

I understood the question to be whether credit card payments would be considered as taxable remittances, not whether or not they actually were. I think we all know they are. 

 

 

[Mike Teavee]

23 minutes ago, Mike Lister said:

The question of whether those remittances are assessable income is far more complex because the answer depends on the nature, source and origin of funds, in the home bank account from which the remittance was made. If savings, no, if income, probably yes.

There are, as yet undiscovered, tribes in the Amazon rain forest who know that taking money out of an ATM is remitting money into Thailand. 

 

The credit card question is much more complex, my personal (layman) opinion is that If I use my credit card to pay for something in the UK, I'm not remitting money into Thailand, if I use it to book a hotel in Vietnam, I'm not remitting money into Thailand however, if I use it to purchase a flight from Thailand (lets say with Qatar) then I am at least at risk of being considered as remitting money into Thailand... 

 

 

BTW Hopefully people will read the 1st part as the joke that it's meant to be🙂 

 

[lordgrinz]

22 minutes ago, Mike Lister said:

It's not about what you purchased, it's about the source and origin of the funds used to pay the CC bill.

 

Which could be paid many months or years later, or not at all.

[Yellowtail]

4 minutes ago, Mike Teavee said:

There are, as yet undiscovered, tribes in the Amazon rain forest who know that taking money out of an ATM is remitting money into Thailand. 

 

The credit card question is much more complex, my personal (layman) opinion is that If I use my credit card to pay for something in the UK, I'm not remitting money into Thailand, if I use it to book a hotel in Vietnam, I'm not remitting money into Thailand however, if I use it to purchase a flight from Thailand (lets say with Qatar) then I am at least at risk of being considered as remitting money into Thailand... 

 

 

BTW Hopefully people will read the 1st part as the joke that it's meant to be🙂 

 

I am assuming it is a UK (or at least non-Thai) credit card, correct? 

 

What if you buy something in Thailand, with a UK credit card, and then pay your credit card with a transfer from your Thai bank? 

 

What if you buy something in Thailand, with a UK credit card, and post it as a gift to someone in the UK? 

 

[beammeup]

Look you guys should use a bit of common sense, If you use your credit card or ATM card occasionally, it will likely be overlooked, but if you abuse it and you get audited you will be in the schitt.

[Mike Teavee]

12 minutes ago, Yellowtail said:

I am assuming it is a UK (or at least non-Thai) credit card, correct? 

 

What if you buy something in Thailand, with a UK credit card, and then pay your credit card with a transfer from your Thai bank? 

 

What if you buy something in Thailand, with a UK credit card, and post it as a gift to someone in the UK? 

 

My personal opinion is that if you buy something in Thailand on your UK credit card (Lets say a new TV) or purchase a service originating from Thailand (E.g. a flight back to the UK) then you are remitting money into Thailand.

 

Other guys opinion is that a Credit Card purchase is a short term loan & loans are not considered to be assessable income, I originally thought the same but found out that the UK treats any Credit Card purchase as remitted income & as that's the only country I'm familiar with that taxes on a remittance basis changed my opinion. 

 

 

[Mike Lister]

This business of being a tax partner in a law firm and their related expertise, needs further comment I think. 

 

People become partners in law firms that deal with tax, those same firms also deal with visa's, import export, residency and all the other things that law firms try to sell and know something about. None of that makes a partner in a law firm, automatically a tax expert, anyone who knows anything about partners in such firms know that their primary role is to sell products and services.

 

Similarly, people who claim to be investment bankers are most likely to be those who have worked for a bank, most probably in IT, but they are by no means investment bankers, as we mostly understand the title. I hired a guy years ago whose resume said he was a Managing Director of Abbey, turns out it was a title that was conferred on some employees in lieu of promotion or salary. He also went overseas and freelanced and traded heavily on his old title. 

 

In my experience, I know when I'm communicating with a real deal Director or expert, it usually shines through, there are a few on this forum but not very many, Walts however are a different story.

[Ben Zioner]

14 minutes ago, beammeup said:

Look you guys should use a bit of common sense, If you use your credit card or ATM card occasionally, it will likely be overlooked, but if you abuse it and you get audited you will be in the schitt.

Thanks beammeup.

[Mike Lister]

25 minutes ago, beammeup said:

Look you guys should use a bit of common sense, If you use your credit card or ATM card occasionally, it will likely be overlooked, but if you abuse it and you get audited you will be in the schitt.

Don't think for one minute that you can come on here using logic and common sense and get away with it, it just wont wash. 

 

:))

[Mike Teavee]

42 minutes ago, Mike Lister said:

Similarly, people who claim to be investment bankers are most likely to be those who have worked for a bank, most probably in IT, but they are by no means investment bankers, as we mostly understand the title.

Maybe I'm paranoid but I think you're referring to me here but I can categorically state that I have never said I was or even hinted at being an "Investment Banker"

 

I have (repeatedly) said that I spent most of my career working in IT for a UK Bank mainly in it's Stockbroking Arm (Doesn't make me a Stockbroker) but also in it's Investment bank arm (Doesn't make me an Investment Banker), It's Private Bank arm (never been a Private Banker) it's Mortgage Arm (no surprises that I've never been a Mortgage Advisor), it's Credit Card arm & even it's "Estates & Trusts Arm" (Not an Accountant or Lawyer though).

 

Just a plain old IT Dude who went where the firm sent him... . 

 

Oh I also worked for EDS at DWP (UK Department of Work & Pensions), doesn't make me a Pension specialist either 🙂

 

[Mike Lister]

6 minutes ago, Mike Teavee said:

Maybe I'm paranoid but I think you're referring to me here 🙂 

 

As I've repeatedly said, I spent most of my career working in IT for a UK Bank mainly in it's Stockbroking Arm (Doesn't make me a Stockbroker) but also in it's Investment bank arm (Doesn't make me an Investment Banker), It's Private Bank arm (never been a Private Banker) it's Mortgage Arm (no surprises that I've never been a Mortgage Advisor), it's Credit Card arm & even it's "Estate & Trusts Arm" (Not an Accountant or Lawyer though).

 

Just a plain old IT Dude who went where the firm sent him... . 

 

Oh I also worked for EDS at DWP (UK Department of Work & Pensions), doesn't make me a Pension specialist either 🙂

 

No, not you, not even close. 

 

I was offered a job with EDS in the US in 1972, the question that cost me the job, just after it was offered, was, are you OK to wear a white short everyday. 

 

 

[Callmeishmael]

We are all waiting for clarity on this issue, but I am going to go out on a limb and say that clarity will not come any time soon.  In the first quarter of next year we will probably see one Revenue Office interpreting the rules one way and the office in the next district interpreting them another way!

 

Eventually, the head office will issue directives that will bring most offices into uniformity, but, just like immigration, there will probably be some rogue offices that will have their own interpretation of the rules!

 

TIT

[Mike Teavee]

12 minutes ago, Mike Lister said:

No, not you, not even close. 

 

I was offered a job with EDS in the US in 1972, the question that cost me the job, just after it was offered, was, are you OK to wear a white short everyday. 

 

 

Lol, you dodged a bullet there. 

 

 

Just kidding, I was only with them for 10 weeks, I joined to take a role moving a data centre in Australia but managed to save DWP £2Milllion on their MS licences in my 1st week so they wanted to keep me around... In BLACKPOOL!

 

It's scary how non-commercially minded government departments are, they were paying £2Million on SharePoint licenses for their UAT environments... WTH - MS doesn't charge for UAT licenses (not that their MS rep would tell them that).   

[Mike Lister]

Just now, Mike Teavee said:

Lol, you dodged a bullet there. 

 

 

Just kidding, I was only with them for 10 weeks, I joined to take a role moving a data centre in Australia but managed save DWP £2Milllion on their MS licences in my 1st week so they wanted to keep me around... In BLACKPOOL!

 

It's scary how non-commercially minded government departments are, they were paying £2Million on SharePoint licenses for their UAT environments... WTH - MS doesn't charge for UAT licenses (not that their MS rep would tell them that).   

DWP Blackpool! You probably knew Parkinson, head of IT at one time?

[Mike Teavee]

Just now, Mike Lister said:

DWP Blackpool! You probably knew Parkinson, head of IT at one time?

This was 2006 so my memory is very rusty apart from the WW2 prefabs we worked out of (Lytham St Annes not quite Blackpool) 

 

Had some good days there, nice bunch of people 🙂

 

 

 

[JimGant]

1 hour ago, Mike Teavee said:

Other guys opinion is that a Credit Card purchase is a short term loan & loans are not considered to be assessable income, I originally thought the same but found out that the UK treats any Credit Card purchase as remitted income & as that's the only country I'm familiar with that taxes on a remittance basis changed my opinion. 

Nope. For those UK folks subject to remittance tax, here's what is said about using a UK issued credit card to make purchases, either in the UK, or abroad.

 

Quote

If a taxpayer who is chargeable on the remittance basis uses a UK credit card to pay for goods or services, either in the UK or overseas and he or she subsequently settles their credit card bill using foreign income or gains, the payment is a taxable remittance.

https://www.gov.uk/hmrc-internal-manuals/residence-domicile-and-remittance-basis/rdrm36130

So, only if you pay off your UK credit card bill with foreign source income or gains, will it be considered a taxable remittance. Pay it off from your UK bank -- no remittance tax.

 

Thus, only if I pay off my US credit card bill with, say, a check from my Bangkok Bank account -- or any other foreign source money, will the credit card charges being paid off be considered the equivalent of remitted foreign source income (using the UK example, which is the only one I can find).

 

So, when I purchase something in Thailand with my US credit card -- and pay it off from my US checking account -- this is not the equivalent of treating the purchase value as a marker for foreign source remitted income. Even if the money I pay it off with would be considered assessable foreign source income -- had it been remitted to Thailand to make that purchase in lieu of my credit card.

 

Thus, a credit card loan to buy a hamburger in Bangkok is treated the same as a bank loan to buy a condo in Bangkok. Both are loans, and both are paid back from a US source -- and are thus not treated as the equivalent of foreign source remitted income.

[firewight]

1 hour ago, Mike Teavee said:

My personal opinion is that if you buy something in Thailand on your UK credit card (Lets say a new TV) or purchase a service originating from Thailand (E.g. a flight back to the UK) then you are remitting money into Thailand.

 

Other guys opinion is that a Credit Card purchase is a short term loan & loans are not considered to be assessable income, I originally thought the same but found out that the UK treats any Credit Card purchase as remitted income & as that's the only country I'm familiar with that taxes on a remittance basis changed my opinion. 

 

 

 

In this video a tax lawyer states credit card purchases and ATM withdrawals are not taxable as they are not hitting your personal Thai bank account...