Global Heat and Climate Extremes Endanger Billions

[Skipalongcassidy]

13 hours ago, placeholder said:

Excellent advice for outdoor laborers such as agricultural and construction workers. After all, it's not like they're doing this to feed themselves and their families.

 

Impacts of warming on outdoor worker well-being in the tropics and adaptation options

The harmful effects of global warming are already present for many people in the tropics, where high temperatures and humidity are often a feature of everyday life, especially for outdoor workers.1,2,3 The human and economic costs are significant. The cost of lost potential labor productivity for outdoor workers from heat is already estimated at several hundred billion to over 2 trillion dollars per year (in 2017 purchasing power parity adjusted dollars).Reports on the health, adaptation strategies, and well-being of outdoor workers to date indicate that impacts are pervasive across the tropics.

https://www.cell.com/one-earth/fulltext/S2590-3322(24)00047-2?_returnURL=https%3A%2F%2Flinkinghub.elsevier.com%2Fretrieve%2Fpii%2FS2590332224000472%3Fshowall%3Dtrue

 

Chronic Kidney Disease Is Poised to Become the Black Lung of Climate Change

One of the enduring legacies of this summer’s spate of heat waves is likely to be a disease that few people have heard of, but which could become more prevalent as heat and humidity increase around the world. First documented in El Salvador’s sugarcane workers 21 years ago, Mesoamerican nephropathy, now known as Chronic Kidney Disease of Non-traditional origin (CKDnt), tends to manifest among outdoor laborers who work grueling hours in high heat conditions. Characterized by a fatal progressive loss of kidney function, CKDnt has killed at least 20,000 people in Central America since it was first diagnosed, and likely tens of thousands more elsewhere in the world.

https://time.com/6303020/chronic-kidney-disease-climate-change/

 

MY original statement stands... ADAPTation is crucial... who says that the laborers have to work through the hottest part of the day... I lived for 15 years in South America and they have ADAPTED to the heat... siestas are not about laziness... they are rest times taken during the hottest part of the day... being stupid or ignorant and not being willing to ADAPT to one's environment is the problem.

[Yellowtail]

11 hours ago, Roo Island said:

Good gosh. Data from when Clinton was president. How about more recent data?

 

https://www.climate.gov/news-features/featured-images/2023-was-warmest-year-modern-temperature-record

 

The year 2023 was the warmest year since global records began in 1850 at 1.18°C (2.12°F) above the 20th-century average of 13.9°C (57.0°F). This value is 0.15°C (0.27°F) more than the previous record set in 2016. The 10 warmest years in the 174-year record have all occurred during the last decade (2014–2023).

So as always, you don't know do you? Did you even understand the question? 

[Cryingdick]

Since the Industrial Revolution, and the higher temps associated with it occurred , humans have become more prosperous then ever. For every bad thing there is also a good result. A lot of what is happening now is stupidness people deforesting the hillsides, or a river bank. That leads to local climate change of micro- climates. But generally speaking noth8ng any one person does is going to effect it one way or another. Try not to cut your trees down or have powerlines that spark violently in the Californian winds.

 

 

[Yellowtail]

16 hours ago, JCauto said:

 

Hard to respond the way the post gets broken up, but I'll try to do so to the questions you asked.

Why is that difficult? 

16 hours ago, JCauto said:

"Does the average person not know that?" - I have found myself amazed at how much the average person doesn't know, my experience has taught me to no longer assume that they have even a basic foundation of knowledge. 

I think it a bit condescending to a assume the "average person" does not know the difference between training and understanding. 

16 hours ago, JCauto said:

"I don't accept anything I am unable to review" - well, in that case you've got a bit of reading to do. Probably enough for the rest of your life if you spend 16 hours a day at it. The climate science papers are almost uniformly available for free since they're usually published at universities. For those that went via services that insist on users paying for access, you can simply write the authors and they'll send the full transcript to you. You see we scientists and engineers have to have peer-review before we publish or else nobody takes it seriously. If it's been published, then you can find it. If you're having trouble, e-mail the author directly. 

So you take on faith what you read, that makes sense. 

16 hours ago, JCauto said:

 

"often cited 93% of climate scientists agree thing was a lie" - so you have a source for this? I would agree that it is highly unlikely that we can put an accurate number to this since it's not something you can simply poll everyone about and get an answer to. However it's picking nits, I'll accept it's over 90%. Would you agree or are you of the opinion it is lower than that? If so, how much lower do you believe it to be? On what basis do you presume that to be the case?

Yes, I read the study, did you? That's how I know it's a lie, and the people that continue to regurgitate it are liars. 

 

16 hours ago, JCauto said:

"I believe that the world is generally getting warmer, and that anthropomorphic impacts it" - this shows you're well ahead of most of your compatriots on the Right, which is of course to your credit.

I do not know anyone that believes otherwise. The left just has to attack everyone that disagrees with their policies as deniers and whatnot. 

16 hours ago, JCauto said:

 

"An alternative to what?" - an alternative explanation for the data that shows very clearly that catastrophic global warming is occurring and at a faster rate than that originally feared.

What data shows "...very clearly that catastrophic global warming is occurring and at a faster rate than that originally feared."

16 hours ago, JCauto said:

"What do you do for a living?" - I am an engineer currently working in data science and geo-spatial technology for forest conservation in Southeast Asia.

Yet you would take an article you read at face value. 

[Yellowtail]

10 hours ago, Cory1848 said:

Thank you. The large number of irrational posts here reminds me of a meme, on antivaxxers but with a similar psychology going on. The first picture is labeled “vaccine research” and shows a group of people in lab coats in a lab, doing their work. The second picture is labeled “antivax research” and shows a woman sitting on a toilet staring into her cellphone.

 

I am not a scientist or engineer, but I value and respect the work of people such as yourself, as well as of the world’s climatologists, who are in overwhelming consensus about the nature and causes of climate change.

Do you have air-conditioning? Do you enjoy air travel? Do you own a car or motorcycle? Do you have electricity and indoor plumbing? Do you buy groceries or eat at restaurants?   If so, you are part of the problem, and while advocating others reduce their standard of living to address the problem may make you feel better, it is not helping anything. 

[placeholder]

3 hours ago, Skipalongcassidy said:

MY original statement stands... ADAPTation is crucial... who says that the laborers have to work through the hottest part of the day... I lived for 15 years in South America and they have ADAPTED to the heat... siestas are not about laziness... they are rest times taken during the hottest part of the day... being stupid or ignorant and not being willing to ADAPT to one's environment is the problem.

Adaptation can only go so far. Except, of course that as the days get hotter, that means it's too hot for longer. There are only so many hours of daylight in which to get work done.

Kidney disease is rising sharply among construction workers and agricultural laborers in countries where high heat is prevalent.

 

In addition, nights, which is when humans and other creatures have the opportunity to cool down, are also getting warmer, with minimum temperatures rising,  and making humans more vulnerable to the heat of the day.

 

Still, adaptation is definitely essential. Like swapping out air conditioners and fossil fuel based heating systems for heat pumps. And by replacing energy producing systems which create greenhouse gases for affordable systems that don't. 

 

 

 

[Purdey]

20 hours ago, Thingamabob said:

A lurid report recently stated that temperatures in Saudi Arabia were 'now reaching 50C'. I lived and worked in Riyadh 40 years ago and the temperature regularly reached 50C at that time.

So it should go over 50 before considered abnormal?

[placeholder]

5 minutes ago, Purdey said:

So it should go over 50 before considered abnormal?

Anyway, as I pointed out average temperatures have risen sharply in Saudi Arabia since then. I also went to wunderground.com to look to see if any July temperatures had risen to 50 C. in Riyadh. July is the hottest month. I couldn't find any but the records only go back to 1997.

[Yellowtail]

3 minutes ago, placeholder said:

Anyway, as I pointed out average temperatures have risen sharply in Saudi Arabia since then. I also went to wunderground.com to look to see if any July temperatures had risen to 50 C. in Riyadh. July is the hottest month. I couldn't find any but the records only go back to 1997.

How much have they risen on average? 

[JCauto]

2 hours ago, Yellowtail said:

1. Why is that difficult? 

2. I think it a bit condescending to a assume the "average person" does not know the difference between training and understanding. 

3. So you take on faith what you read, that makes sense. 

4. Yes, I read the study, did you? That's how I know it's a lie, and the people that continue to regurgitate it are liars. 

 

5. I do not know anyone that believes otherwise. The left just has to attack everyone that disagrees with their policies as deniers and whatnot. 

6. What data shows "...very clearly that catastrophic global warming is occurring and at a faster rate than that originally feared."

7. Yet you would take an article you read at face value. 

 

1. Haven't figured out how to do it and can't be arsed.

2. I think it demonstrates an understanding of statistics. 

3. If that's your level of intellectual understanding, then you're not worth debating. However it's obvious that it's not, you're just trolling. Yawn. I described my work, that means I read quite a lot of studies relating to climate change, forestry and other relevant issues. To pretend one could read the entire corpus of climate change research is an absurdity as you're fully aware. Your point was a dumb one.

4. Which study? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scientific_consensus_on_climate_change Tell me which of the references you are talking about and I'll respond.

5. I know many who believe otherwise, they post about it on ASEAN Now every time there's a climate thread. This is just disingenuous. Why don't you argue your points with facts? It's so easy to disprove this, it's not even worth the clicks. Check this thread for instance.
6. Just go to the source.  https://www.ipcc.ch/sr15/

7. By no means do I take an article at face value. I explained to you already that I'm an engineer and data scientist. Why do you keep trying to mischaracterize what I say and do?
 

Are you trained in engineering or science, or are you self-taught? Did you work as a scientist or technical person in those fields?

[Roo Island]

5 hours ago, Yellowtail said:

So as always, you don't know do you? Did you even understand the question? 

Sure do. One reason I'm in northern England and heading to Scotland this summer rather than blazing hot southern Europe like we did last summer. 40c highs seem to be the new norm down south. But data from decades ago is no longer relevant.

[Roo Island]

2 hours ago, Yellowtail said:

How much have they risen on average? 

Guess you didn't read this...the graph lays it out well.

 

https://www.climate.gov/news-features/featured-images/2023-was-warmest-year-modern-temperature-record

 

The year 2023 was the warmest year since global records began in 1850 at 1.18°C (2.12°F) above the 20th-century average of 13.9°C (57.0°F). This value is 0.15°C (0.27°F) more than the previous record set in 2016. The 10 warmest years in the 174-year record have all occurred during the last decade (2014–2023).

[thaibeachlovers]

On 6/24/2024 at 6:01 PM, JCauto said:

 

There's training, then there's understanding what you have been taught. They're not the same.

 

So do you believe that there is a global conspiracy amongst the millions of people working in climate science and related fields? Do you accept the overwhelming consensus of those scientists and engineers that the world temperatures are increasing as the result of anthropomorphic causes? 

Or do you have an alternative theory for us based on your knowledge and experience of the sciences and engineering? Don't be coy! Spill the beans!

I think when someone's career depends on being on the politically correct side, most will go along to get along.

 

If they were actually correct, politicians might actually do something more than attend conferences about it. They might actually bring in changes, but they don't. They don't actually do anything that one might expect when the human world faces a existential threat. I call it BS used to justify their existence and make money.

 

They talk a lot and do nothing IMO.

 

IMO they know we are doomed, and there is nothing they can do about it except try and stop mass unrest by pretending they are doing something. Pretending that there are more than 2 genders and suchlike keeps people's minds off the real situation by deflecting to nonsense.

[thaibeachlovers]

1 hour ago, Roo Island said:

Guess you didn't read this...the graph lays it out well.

 

https://www.climate.gov/news-features/featured-images/2023-was-warmest-year-modern-temperature-record

 

The year 2023 was the warmest year since global records began in 1850 at 1.18°C (2.12°F) above the 20th-century average of 13.9°C (57.0°F). This value is 0.15°C (0.27°F) more than the previous record set in 2016. The 10 warmest years in the 174-year record have all occurred during the last decade (2014–2023).

OK, it's getting hotter. Now tell us how they can reverse it- you can't- well there's a surprise, not.

[thaibeachlovers]

3 hours ago, JCauto said:

 

1. Haven't figured out how to do it and can't be arsed.

2. I think it demonstrates an understanding of statistics. 

3. If that's your level of intellectual understanding, then you're not worth debating. However it's obvious that it's not, you're just trolling. Yawn. I described my work, that means I read quite a lot of studies relating to climate change, forestry and other relevant issues. To pretend one could read the entire corpus of climate change research is an absurdity as you're fully aware. Your point was a dumb one.

4. Which study? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scientific_consensus_on_climate_change Tell me which of the references you are talking about and I'll respond.

5. I know many who believe otherwise, they post about it on ASEAN Now every time there's a climate thread. This is just disingenuous. Why don't you argue your points with facts? It's so easy to disprove this, it's not even worth the clicks. Check this thread for instance.
6. Just go to the source.  https://www.ipcc.ch/sr15/

7. By no means do I take an article at face value. I explained to you already that I'm an engineer and data scientist. Why do you keep trying to mischaracterize what I say and do?
 

Are you trained in engineering or science, or are you self-taught? Did you work as a scientist or technical person in those fields?

As usual, spreading climate alarmism without a single suggestion of what to do about it.

Do you have any idea of what to do about it, or are you content to just denigrate those of us that are not Chicken Littles?

[thaibeachlovers]

16 hours ago, Cory1848 said:

I am not a scientist or engineer, but I value and respect the work of people such as yourself, as well as of the world’s climatologists, who are in overwhelming consensus about the nature and causes of climate change.

I'm still waiting for them to come up with some way to reverse the warming trend. So far it's all conferences and talk talk, and sod all do do.

Don't try and tell me that EVs, windmills and raising taxes is going to bring on a cooling trend, and if they are doing anything else, I must have blinked and missed it.

[thaibeachlovers]

6 hours ago, Cryingdick said:

Since the Industrial Revolution, and the higher temps associated with it occurred , humans have become more prosperous then ever. For every bad thing there is also a good result. A lot of what is happening now is stupidness people deforesting the hillsides, or a river bank. That leads to local climate change of micro- climates. But generally speaking noth8ng any one person does is going to effect it one way or another. Try not to cut your trees down or have powerlines that spark violently in the Californian winds.

 

 

Having less children would be one way to reduce the human input, but seems that most governments want more people aaaaarrrrrgggggghhhhhh.

[nauseus]

23 hours ago, placeholder said:

You should publish your findings in the Journal of Unconfirmable Data. In the meantime, there's this:

Data-Driven Analysis of Climate Change in Saudi Arabia: Trends in Temperature Extremes and Human Comfort Indicators

 Our findings indicate that, over the past four decades, Saudi Arabia has warmed up at a rate that is 50% higher than the rest of the landmass in the Northern Hemisphere. Moreover, moisture content of the air has significantly increased in the region. The increases of temperature and humidity have resulted in the soaring of dewpoint temperature and thermal discomfort across the country.

https://journals.ametsoc.org/view/journals/apme/60/8/JAMC-D-20-0273.1.xml

 

 

The Saudi population has quadrupled sice 1979. All the data here comes from cities, most of which have undergone significant expansion and construction since then. It would be interesting to know these data if these expansions had not occured.

 

[JonnyF]

4 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

As usual, spreading climate alarmism without a single suggestion of what to do about it.

 

In fairness, the liberal elites have a plan.

 

Continue with their lavish lives of private jets, luxury yachts and water front mansions while taxing the rest of us to death and expecting us to give up our holidays, cars and eat bugs.

 

Most people are seeing through it, although as this thread shows there are a minority of useful idiots still drinking the kool aid.  

[JCauto]

8 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

I think when someone's career depends on being on the politically correct side, most will go along to get along.

 

If they were actually correct, politicians might actually do something more than attend conferences about it. They might actually bring in changes, but they don't. They don't actually do anything that one might expect when the human world faces a existential threat. I call it BS used to justify their existence and make money.

 

They talk a lot and do nothing IMO.

 

IMO they know we are doomed, and there is nothing they can do about it except try and stop mass unrest by pretending they are doing something. Pretending that there are more than 2 genders and suchlike keeps people's minds off the real situation by deflecting to nonsense.

 

This is just the latest example of the sort of cottage cheese that comprises the minds of the conspiracy-addled. You believe that there are millions of scientists and engineers who would decide "the data shows something totally different, but I need to be politically correct. So I'm going to ignore it."  And at the exact same time, you believe that there are thousands of politicians worldwide who are aware of this conspiracy but are ignoring it because they're being paid to attend conferences and make money. Yet, at the same time that these two large groups of people are doing this absolutely wrong and corrupt thing because it helps them feather their nests or avoid criticism by "the Woke", they are completely aware that in fact the conspiracy of the scientists is actually true and correct, so they're aware that they and their families and friends and everyone else is doomed, but they're just trying to prevent mass unrest through subterfuge and "pretending" to do something about it.

Here's something that is more reality-based to consider - if you as a scientist had irrefutable proof, or even a reasonable amount of proof that the world was in fact NOT affected by anthropomorphic climate change and it was not getting worse and is actually not an existential threat, then you would in fact be showered with money by the oil companies, Koch Bros. and all the other climate change denialists. You'd be given the biggest megaphone on the planet (Faux News) to broadcast your groundbreaking research. You'd end up eating McD's with Donald Trump and he'd bring you along to all his rallies as a starring attraction. Whom do you know that is a scientist and/or engineer that would take their profession and toss it in the trash in favour of political correctness? This is absurd to a degree that is unfathomable and demonstrates you've never been involved in anything technical. Otherwise you would understand this to be the case.

[thaibeachlovers]

7 minutes ago, nauseus said:

 

The Saudi population has quadrupled sice 1979. All the data here comes from cities, most of which have undergone significant expansion and construction since then. It would be interesting to know these data if these expansions had not occured.

 

It's a large country, mostly uninhabitable and IMO a quadrupling of the population would make zero difference overall.

Perhaps it's the lack of trees that has contributed to the rise in temperature.

I have traveled through much of the country during my time there.

 

However, you are correct in that large areas of buildings does cause a LOCAL rise in temperature. London was much warmer in winter than areas outside London, likely due to the heat sink of concrete and brick. I'm not sure that bare dirt would get less hot than concrete though, and outside cities in Saudi that is what there is.
 

[JCauto]

12 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

As usual, spreading climate alarmism without a single suggestion of what to do about it.

Do you have any idea of what to do about it, or are you content to just denigrate those of us that are not Chicken Littles?

 

So our discussion about catastrophic climate change was about whether it was "real" or not. It was not a discussion about what to do about it. But good that you raise it.

 

Did you observe point 7, about what I do professionally? This is an example of "what to do about it". You try to sequester carbon in the forest tree stems and protect habitat for biodiversity (since catastrophic climate change is a precursor to another existential danger, that being Biodiversity Collapse). There are many other things people are doing about it - you may have observed that there has been a massive shift to renewable energy from carbon-based fuel. We may well be able to get to a point of zero-emission energy within a reasonable timeframe. People are researching new ways to remove or sequester carbon and other pollutants such as algae farming and low emission agriculture. If we look at the example of chlorofluorocarbons (CFCs) that were destroying the ozone layer not so long ago, they are no longer a problem because we recognized the damage they were causing, then banded together as humans to ban the CFCs and put in alternatives that don't damage the ozone. It worked. 

 

So it's like most things, if one observes a problem and is able to quantify it and identify mitigation measures, one can then mobilize governments and ordinary folks to do something about it and create a movement towards less damaging ways of living. That is happening, although sadly it has happened too late (due to the staunch resistance of those profiting from dirty tech) and there remain many unenlightened people who see this as a threat so try to do the opposite. 

[JCauto]

17 minutes ago, JonnyF said:

 

In fairness, the liberal elites have a plan.

 

Continue with their lavish lives of private jets, luxury yachts and water front mansions while taxing the rest of us to death and expecting us to give up our holidays, cars and eat bugs.

 

Most people are seeing through it, although as this thread shows there are a minority of useful idiots still drinking the kool aid.  

 

LOL. We "Liberal Elites" with our private jets, luxury yachts and waterfront mansions? I think you may be getting the two sides mixed up.

 

Remember, YOU'RE the ones wanting no tax and to be outrageously rich and not give a rat's about other people, WE'RE the Hippies who want to save the planet. Get your stereotypes straight! 

Tell us about your scientific and engineering knowledge and how you know that climate change is a crock...

[JonnyF]

4 minutes ago, JCauto said:

LOL. We "Liberal Elites" with our private jets, luxury yachts and waterfront mansions? I think you may be getting the two sides mixed up.

 

I wasn't referring to you 😄.  I was referring to the likes of Bill Gates, Joe Biden and many of the other lying, hypocritical leftist millionaires/billionaires that plague America.  

 

The turkeys (proles) who vote for Christmas by drinking their kool aid and supporting it on forums like this fall under the second part of my post, the useful idiots. 

[thaibeachlovers]

14 minutes ago, JCauto said:

 

This is just the latest example of the sort of cottage cheese that comprises the minds of the conspiracy-addled. You believe that there are millions of scientists and engineers who would decide "the data shows something totally different, but I need to be politically correct. So I'm going to ignore it."  And at the exact same time, you believe that there are thousands of politicians worldwide who are aware of this conspiracy but are ignoring it because they're being paid to attend conferences and make money. Yet, at the same time that these two large groups of people are doing this absolutely wrong and corrupt thing because it helps them feather their nests or avoid criticism by "the Woke", they are completely aware that in fact the conspiracy of the scientists is actually true and correct, so they're aware that they and their families and friends and everyone else is doomed, but they're just trying to prevent mass unrest through subterfuge and "pretending" to do something about it.

Here's something that is more reality-based to consider - if you as a scientist had irrefutable proof, or even a reasonable amount of proof that the world was in fact NOT affected by anthropomorphic climate change and it was not getting worse and is actually not an existential threat, then you would in fact be showered with money by the oil companies, Koch Bros. and all the other climate change denialists. You'd be given the biggest megaphone on the planet (Faux News) to broadcast your groundbreaking research. You'd end up eating McD's with Donald Trump and he'd bring you along to all his rallies as a starring attraction. Whom do you know that is a scientist and/or engineer that would take their profession and toss it in the trash in favour of political correctness? This is absurd to a degree that is unfathomable and demonstrates you've never been involved in anything technical. Otherwise you would understand this to be the case.

You expose yourself by your insults. You also know nothing about what I have or have not done in my life, other than the very small part I have written on this forum.

Frankly I don't care what you think about me, but the fact is that you, to my knowledge, have never written anything on this forum as to how rising temperatures can be reversed.

You and your ilk can wobble on about rising temperatures till the sun sets in the east, but if you can't change it what is the point?

 

What I've said all along is that the temperature is rising and has little to nothing to do with human activity. I've seen nothing from scientists to make me change my mind about that. 

If I'm wrong and it actually is caused by human activity, that will be the supreme irony. Humanity ended by it's own environmental destruction and overpopulation.

 

There is plenty of opposition to Chicken Little alarmism if one wants to look for it.

 

Scientists, like everyone, want to make a living and if the politicians want to make it about humans to raise taxes, why rock the boat? Scientists are not saints, after all, just normal human beings.

[Woof999]

On 6/24/2024 at 12:29 PM, JCauto said:

Wow, what a conclave of ASEAN Now's top scientific minds!

Let me quickly contact the UNFCCC to let them know there's an important discussion going on that they really need to pay attention to. After all, there's been a dearth of cases for the AN Detectives to work on, so they're going back to one of their old staples, climate science. Can't wait for Bird Flu to start up and see them putting their White Lab Coats on as they move swiftly into expertise on epidemiology. 

Seriously, has a single one of you had the slightest bit of training or experience in science or engineering? Thought so.

 

Yep, and I note they are also very quick to put a left / right political slant on it too. More like head in the sand vs eyes wide open.

[JCauto]

4 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

You expose yourself by your insults. You also know nothing about what I have or have not done in my life, other than the very small part I have written on this forum.

Frankly I don't care what you think about me, but the fact is that you, to my knowledge, have never written anything on this forum as to how rising temperatures can be reversed.

You and your ilk can wobble on about rising temperatures till the sun sets in the east, but if you can't change it what is the point?

 

What I've said all along is that the temperature is rising and has little to nothing to do with human activity. I've seen nothing from scientists to make me change my mind about that. 

If I'm wrong and it actually is caused by human activity, that will be the supreme irony. Humanity ended by it's own environmental destruction and overpopulation.

 

There is plenty of opposition to Chicken Little alarmism if one wants to look for it.

 

Scientists, like everyone, want to make a living and if the politicians want to make it about humans to raise taxes, why rock the boat? Scientists are not saints, after all, just normal human beings.

No, I expose you for being so addled by conspiracy that you are believing two entirely opposite things at the same time. I can tell you have no technical background by virtue of your data- and logic-free "arguments". You can't keep a single thought straight in your head, hence my pointing it out in detail. I also note that despite not knowing anything about you, you've provided nothing that shows I was wrong in my conjectures.

 

I explained in the post this is replying to a number of things that are being done about it including my own work. Yet you just blithely ignore the content of the posts and pretend as if I didn't just offer you a number of different answers to your actual question. You accept the data that the temperatures are rising now, but can't seem to figure out why? And you've "seen nothing from scientists to make me change my mind about that". Okay, tell us one of the things you looked at in great detail in an attempt to understand this that had a scientific basis but failed to convince you. I will as a favor to you explain it assuming you were looking at something credible.

 

 

[thaibeachlovers]

20 minutes ago, JCauto said:

So it's like most things, if one observes a problem and is able to quantify it and identify mitigation measures, one can then mobilize governments and ordinary folks to do something about it and create a movement towards less damaging ways of living. That is happening, although sadly it has happened too late (due to the staunch resistance of those profiting from dirty tech) and there remain many unenlightened people who see this as a threat so try to do the opposite. 

although sadly it has happened too late

I certainly agree with that. It is too late and nothing is going to put Humpty together again.

 

 

Thank you for that reply. However, there is one insoluble problem that will negate all those attempts to mitigate the problem- overpopulation. Millions of people in poor countries want to live like westerners and that is a lifestyle that is destroying the planet's ability to support humanity. They all want to live in cities, fly on exotic holidays and drive cars etc. If governments were serious about solutions they wouldn't be trying to get us to breed more, as they are doing.

 

Is it the biggest irony of all that western people that have the lifestyle want to revert to a simpler way of life, while the people that have the simpler way of life want to be like us, and consume like there is no tomorrow?

Consumption is going to kill us all, in my opinion.

[thaibeachlovers]

2 minutes ago, JCauto said:

No, I expose you for being so addled by conspiracy that you are believing two entirely opposite things at the same time. I can tell you have no technical background by virtue of your data- and logic-free "arguments". You can't keep a single thought straight in your head, hence my pointing it out in detail. I also note that despite not knowing anything about you, you've provided nothing that shows I was wrong in my conjectures.

 

I explained in the post this is replying to a number of things that are being done about it including my own work. Yet you just blithely ignore the content of the posts and pretend as if I didn't just offer you a number of different answers to your actual question. You accept the data that the temperatures are rising now, but can't seem to figure out why? And you've "seen nothing from scientists to make me change my mind about that". Okay, tell us one of the things you looked at in great detail in an attempt to understand this that had a scientific basis but failed to convince you. I will as a favor to you explain it assuming you were looking at something credible.

 

 

I could if I wanted to, but I try not to put myself out for people that say things like "No, I expose you for being so addled by conspiracy that you are believing two entirely opposite things at the same time. I can tell you have no technical background by virtue of your data- and logic-free "arguments". You can't keep a single thought straight in your head,".

 

You obviously think insulting people you don't know will make them more co operative, but news flash, it doesn't.

 

I'm at the end of my life in this existence, and I leave no children to suffer, so I really don't care that much about the fate of the human race. It's a pity that those that do have children don't care much though, and the ones I see all about me don't. Try and tell them they have to live a less exploitive lifestyle and you'll be lucky to get away with a bit of verbal abuse.

 

When it comes down to it, when the politicians need people to vote for them so they can keep sucking on the taxpayer's teat, they ain't going to try and make people's lives harder, and not many citizens are going to sacrifice their lifestyle for the "future" without the government forcing them to do so. You lot are just not convincing enough people to make the necessary changes happen, and it's already too late, IMO.

 

The fat lady is warming up her vocal chords, and when she sings it's going to be a cracker.

[thaibeachlovers]

27 minutes ago, Woof999 said:

 

Yep, and I note they are also very quick to put a left / right political slant on it too. More like head in the sand vs eyes wide open.

and your solutions to the problem are....................................