Seeking Advice on Reporting Police Corruption in Criminal Case

[ElephantEgo]

 

Hello everyone,

We are dealing with a situation where a crime was committed, but we suspect that the criminal has bribed the police to prevent the case from being referred to public prosecutors. The police are denying that it is a criminal matter and are claiming it is a civil issue.

Objectively, we believe it is clearly a criminal matter. However, even if the investigator agrees, their superior refuses to pursue it as a criminal case. Is there any recourse in this situation? Should we contact the Ombudsman, the CIB, the DSI, or the NACC? What should we do?

Additionally, we have evidence suggesting that the criminal gave gifts to both the police and prosecutors, although we may not be able to use this evidence in court since those people who have the evidence, would not like to come forward for fear of stepping on toes....

Any advice on which agency to contact or how to proceed would be greatly appreciated.

Thank you!

[OneMoreFarang]

28 minutes ago, ElephantEgo said:

Any advice on which agency to contact or how to proceed would be greatly appreciated.

Personally, I would foremost think about my own health and future.

The police in this country are corrupt to the core. Nobody can rise in the ranks without being part of the corrupt system.

So, what do you expect? That someone higher up will help you, some outsider? Wake up, that won't happen!

If you open your mouth too wide or publish things which you shouldn't publish, then you can expect that some people won't like that. And maybe they really don't like it. And if you are lucky, they will explain to you that you better stop before they make you stop.

 

Accept that the situation is like it is. Move on!

[timendres]

Following up on what @OneMoreFarang said, I had a Thai employee many years ago whose grandfather was murdered.

When the family complained that no action was being taken, it was suggested that 100,000 THB might "expedite" matters.

The boys knew the family had lots of money. That should help you with understanding the point being made above.

There are times, and I have personally experienced a couple. where you will interact with above board officers who

do their job professionally. Sadly, this seems to be the exception.

 

The forum is littered with stories of the woes experienced by those who were careless in this regard.

[ElephantEgo]

After waiting for a year for the police to forward our case to the public prosecutor, our lawyers have now suggested that we file the civil claim first instead of the criminal claim.

They mentioned that once the civil case is filed, the police cannot argue that the matter should be treated as a civil case since it would already be in civil court.

I assume that the judge's decision as well, which will take a few months, might compel the police to act, as the court might find that crimes were indeed committed. This would allow us to pursue a criminal case afterwards to recover full damages.

@timendres Are you suggesting that we should be cautious and possibly consider paying the police (I have no way to know if someone on our side already did) to expedite the process? If so, what if the other party offers more money to avoid prosecution, given that they possess our sizable stolen assets/revenue stream? Wouldn't this lead to a bidding war with no clear resolution? How can we navigate this situation?

[OneMoreFarang]

2 hours ago, ElephantEgo said:

Are you suggesting that we should be cautious and possibly consider paying the police (I have no way to know if someone on our side already did) to expedite the process? If so, what if the other party offers more money to avoid prosecution, given that they possess our sizable stolen assets/revenue stream? Wouldn't this lead to a bidding war with no clear resolution? How can we navigate this situation?

What are your expectations?

Is the other side the side of some Thai people? And your side are foreigners?

How long are you in Thailand already? And do you read the news?

It's not too difficult to understand that what happens in Thailand has mostly not much to do with who is right but who is more powerful (not just money).

You can dream about how this could end if everything would be handled in fairness. The only problem is that that won't happen.

I suggest you accept reality better sooner than later. Because at some point you will be forced to accept reality. And you won't like it.

[stoner]

i wouldn't. let it go. taking legal action can alter your life in ways you never wanted or expected. we're not in kansas anymore dorothy. tread lightly. 

[Will B Good]

I guess the mistake is thinking you are dealing with 'police'.....you are dealing with one of the largest organised crime syndicates in the world.

[timendres]

13 hours ago, ElephantEgo said:

@timendres Are you suggesting that we should be cautious and possibly consider paying the police (I have no way to know if someone on our side already did) to expedite the process? If so, what if the other party offers more money to avoid prosecution, given that they possess our sizable stolen assets/revenue stream? Wouldn't this lead to a bidding war with no clear resolution? How can we navigate this situation?

 

The purpose of my post was to help illustrate the maze that you are navigating. It is twisty and treacherous.

Personally, I would never even consider any sort of "compensation" in matters such as these.

Compensation opens up another cadre of issues and potential pitfalls.

[cleopatra2]

15 hours ago, ElephantEgo said:

After waiting for a year for the police to forward our case to the public prosecutor, our lawyers have now suggested that we file the civil claim first instead of the criminal claim.

They mentioned that once the civil case is filed, the police cannot argue that the matter should be treated as a civil case since it would already be in civil court.

I assume that the judge's decision as well, which will take a few months, might compel the police to act, as the court might find that crimes were indeed committed. This would allow us to pursue a criminal case afterwards to recover full damages.

@timendres Are you suggesting that we should be cautious and possibly consider paying the police (I have no way to know if someone on our side already did) to expedite the process? If so, what if the other party offers more money to avoid prosecution, given that they possess our sizable stolen assets/revenue stream? Wouldn't this lead to a bidding war with no clear resolution? How can we navigate this situation?

This does not make  sense

If you file a civil case then it remains a civil case. It will not automatically be upgraded it to a criminal case.

The case will be judged on its merits as a civil matter.

[Pouatchee]

16 hours ago, timendres said:

The boys knew the family had lots of money. That should help you with understanding the point being made above.

 

apart from my personal experience with these guys, this is why i call the pigs. particularly here in thailand where they are above the law and accountable to no one. 

[Mavideol]

what about TV news outlets, newspapers... just saying as they may be on the take as well

[ElephantEgo]

Despite the title of this thread, I've decided I don't want to fight corruption (like moving mountains) but do want to fight the people who stole from us, since it was a lot of profits involved.

While @OneMoreFarang suggests giving up because the Royal Thai Police and Law Enforcement are unequivocally corrupt:
 

20 hours ago, OneMoreFarang said:

The police in this country are corrupt to the core.

 

In other experiences, this is not always the case. @timendres noted:
 

20 hours ago, timendres said:

There are times, and I have personally experienced a couple. where you will interact with above board officers who do their job professionally.

Especially, we can expect the authorities to be above-board if wrongdoers have already been revealed to the public, such as by judges' decisions in connected case/s.

So please do not completely give up on the Rule of Law in Thailand! Or will you argue that judges are also, all bought and paid for? Even in the higher courts? And police are not also afraid of appearing to make the wrong decisions when the facts come before a judge regarding the case they were tasked with investigating/overseeing?

I do have faith that the authorities are not only controlled by what many here allege, but also by (the appearance or intent of) being clean.

There has to be a way to slowly but surely compel authorities to do their jobs properly, without making them loose face and without rocking the boat too much. For example, a civil case which shows lots of criminal damage/intent with a breadth and depth of evidence that indicates police better quickly take a more active role, which then compels them to do so.

The point is that we want to win, slowly but surely, against the wrongdoers without stepping on everyone's toes or fighting everyone in our path. Like soft power, strong but fair and with minimal (if any) collateral damage since we have the support of all those concerned.

Edited Tuesday at 02:24 PM by ElephantEgo
Grammer

[OneMoreFarang]

3 hours ago, ElephantEgo said:

Despite the title of this thread, I've decided I don't want to fight corruption (like moving mountains) but do want to fight the people who stole from us, since it was a lot of profits involved.

While @OneMoreFarang suggests giving up because the Royal Thai Police and Law Enforcement are unequivocally corrupt:
 

 

In other experiences, this is not always the case. @timendres noted:
 

Especially, we can expect the authorities to be above-board if wrongdoers have already been revealed to the public, such as by judges' decisions in connected case/s.

So please do not completely give up on the Rule of Law in Thailand! Or will you argue that judges are also, all bought and paid for? Even in the higher courts? And police are not also afraid of appearing to make the wrong decisions when the facts come before a judge regarding the case they were tasked with investigating/overseeing?

I do have faith that the authorities are not only controlled by what many here allege, but also by (the appearance or intent of) being clean.

There has to be a way to slowly but surely compel authorities to do their jobs properly, without making them loose face and without rocking the boat too much. For example, a civil case which shows lots of criminal damage/intent with a breadth and depth of evidence that indicates police better quickly take a more active role, which then compels them to do so.

The point is that we want to win, slowly but surely, against the wrongdoers without stepping on everyone's toes or fighting everyone in our path. Like soft power, strong but fair and with minimal (if any) collateral damage since we have the support of all those concerned.

 

Good luck with that!

Your goal sounds idealistic, and I wish you luck.

But, IMHO, you need a lot of luck to get where you want to be.

 

There are so many prominent cases in this country, with well-established facts, where justice just doesn't happen.

Look at Thaksin, look at "boss", who killed a police officer with his Ferrari, and look at many other cases. There often is no justice, even when the facts are in the open and the facts are obvious.

 

So, if you try to win and you want to spend time and money to do that, sure, go ahead. Maybe you will win. But maybe not. How would you feel in let's say 5 years when you realize you spent a lot of your time and a lot of money, and you lost. And maybe then you look back and see yourself: There was never really a chance to win. Or maybe only a 10% chance to win.

Do you accept that? Or do you want to think again and accept now that you lost. Forget about it. Don't spend more time on it and don't spend more money on it. And don't worry that someone puts a gun to your head and tells you to stop it. I know a guy who was in such a situation with that gun. He didn't like it.

 

So, think it through. And good luck.

[timendres]

3 hours ago, ElephantEgo said:

There has to be a way to slowly but surely compel authorities to do their jobs properly, without making them loose face and without rocking the boat too much. For example, a civil case which shows lots of criminal damage/intent with a breadth and depth of evidence that indicates police better quickly take a more active role, which then compels them to do so.

 

The single most important step in solving this problem is to provide adequate salaries to officers.

Without this, the problem cannot even begin to be solved.

[Puccini]

The lack of police action where required can be reported to

http://www.ombudsman.go.th/10/eng/index1.asp

and

www.1111.go.th

 

 

[rwill]

If you won the civil case it should help you recoup your losses.  If they actually pay.

The criminal case would be to punish them for what they did.

What is more important to you?

[OneMoreFarang]

2 hours ago, Puccini said:

The lack of police action where required can be reported to

http://www.ombudsman.go.th/10/eng/index1.asp

and

www.1111.go.th

 

I like to report that Thaksin violated his bail condition. One condition is that he won't be active in politics.

Will he be arrested now?

[Bangkok Barry]

On 6/25/2024 at 5:32 AM, Will B Good said:

I guess the mistake is thinking you are dealing with 'police'.....you are dealing with one of the largest organised crime syndicates in the world.

 

Described as such by the UN some years ago, although they didn't specify 'the world', just that the Thai police force was a well-organised criminal organisation. Of course, every Thai knows that.

[simon43]

[quote]

...

This would allow us to pursue a criminal case afterwards to recover full damages.

...

[/quote]

 

I bold/underlined your wrong assumption......

[2baht]

33 minutes ago, OneMoreFarang said:

 

I like to report that Thaksin violated his bail condition. One condition is that he won't be active in politics.

Will he be arrested now?

Good on you OMF, at last someone takes serious attention!

[AustinRacing]

I think you’re dreaming. A Thai stealing from a farang isn’t considered a big deal by Thais. Some actually like it as they don’t like foreigners making money in their land. Chances are they’ll make your life hell especially if the police are on the take. In their eyes you’re not as entitled as they are. 

[CharlieKo]

Regardless of what crime in your eyes may have been committed. If you do tread on the wrong toes be it in the criminal or civil court. Because corruption knows no boundaries. One question you should ask yourself is.

 

How much value do you put on your life?

 

Something could happen to you long before the case reaches the courts. All depends on who's involved and the depths they will go to, to avoid being caught out.  

[cncltd1973]

I wonder if you could get the wheels of justice moving by involving social media somehow. seems like some cases that are initially DOA are taken up only after it's brought to the attention of the public. I don't know where to start with that, but a number of victims in previous news couldn't get any action until they approached organizations like Samui Survive, etc.

[newbee2022]

7 hours ago, OneMoreFarang said:

 

Good luck with that!

Your goal sounds idealistic, and I wish you luck.

But, IMHO, you need a lot of luck to get where you want to be.

 

There are so many prominent cases in this country, with well-established facts, where justice just doesn't happen.

Look at Thaksin, look at "boss", who killed a police officer with his Ferrari, and look at many other cases. There often is no justice, even when the facts are in the open and the facts are obvious.

 

So, if you try to win and you want to spend time and money to do that, sure, go ahead. Maybe you will win. But maybe not. How would you feel in let's say 5 years when you realize you spent a lot of your time and a lot of money, and you lost. And maybe then you look back and see yourself: There was never really a chance to win. Or maybe only a 10% chance to win.

Do you accept that? Or do you want to think again and accept now that you lost. Forget about it. Don't spend more time on it and don't spend more money on it. And don't worry that someone puts a gun to your head and tells you to stop it. I know a guy who was in such a situation with that gun. He didn't like it.

 

So, think it through. And good luck.

I got a British friend who was beaten up by a police officer. All what he wanted later was "justice". 

The end of the story was, that many of my friend's neighbours were complaining about him about his inappropriate behaviour. Forced by the police officer.

My friend was mobbed out of his house, paid a lot for a good lawyer and paid at last a fine.

The police officer walked away. Free.

My friend died shortly after this experience. His last words were "justice"😩

[couchpotato]

7 minutes ago, newbee2022 said:

I got a British friend who was beaten up by a police officer. All what he wanted later was "justice". 

The end of the story was, that many of my friend's neighbours were complaining about him about his inappropriate behaviour. Forced by the police officer.

My friend was mobbed out of his house, paid a lot for a good lawyer and paid at last a fine.

The police officer walked away. Free.

My friend died shortly after this experience. His last words were "justice"😩

This is a very weird and confusing story.

[NedR69]

On 6/25/2024 at 4:42 AM, stoner said:

we're not in kansas anymore dorothy. 

...toto.

[roo860]

5 minutes ago, couchpotato said:

This is a very weird and confusing story.

Par for course for this fella.

[stoner]

13 minutes ago, NedR69 said:

...toto.

 

wrong plains. 

[ElephantEgo]

3 hours ago, AustinRacing said:

A Thai stealing from a farang isn’t considered a big deal by Thais.

 

Not so cut and dry on that, this is Thai/Farang vs Thai/Farang.

 

6 hours ago, Puccini said:

The lack of police action where required can be reported to

http://www.ombudsman.go.th/10/eng/index1.asp

and

www.1111.go.th

 

 

Thank you for these constructive comments. We were also recommended the Ombudsman office earlier by a lawyer who previously did work for us. It seems this is a legitimate and reasonable recourse.
 

 

3 hours ago, cncltd1973 said:

I wonder if you could get the wheels of justice moving by involving social media somehow. seems like some cases that are initially DOA are taken up only after it's brought to the attention of the public. I don't know where to start with that, but a number of victims in previous news couldn't get any action until they approached organizations like Samui Survive, etc.

How to contact this Samui Survive please? Or any other pertinent organizations?

[Acharn]

8 hours ago, Bangkok Barry said:

 

Described as such by the UN some years ago, although they didn't specify 'the world', just that the Thai police force was a well-organised criminal organisation. Of course, every Thai knows that.

But when they have trouble they call the police anyway. Why is that?