Why are so many foreigners residing in Thailand problematic types?

[WDSmart]

When you say "many of the expats I've come across in Thailand," do you mean those you've actually met and interacted with or those you've only read about? The reason I ask is, I've only met and interacted with a very few expats as those you describe. Those kinds of expats, however, are the ones I read about on AseanNews Forums and other news media. I think they make up a very small percentage of expats living in Thailand.

Of course, I don't live in or visit Bangkok or any other large city very often. And I also don't hang around taverns or seek out prostitutes. I think that also is a large part of this problem you are describing.

[Maitdjai]

1 hour ago, ignore it said:

 

Yep, that's the kind of thing ChatGPT is good at.

 

It checks all the boxes quite succinctly. 

 

And it kind of stifles curmudgeonly grumbling and rambling.

Like, with the first computers. If you didn't know how to use it, it was useless.
The next step was to "copy and paste". People pasted any i.e. "Wikipedia" junk, with the trust that it "must" be correct.
AI? Everybody can hit "return". What version of an AI result is "your" favorite, and which "other" version does anybody else prefer?
What are different AI applications, or versions (updates) doing with the same source?
You still have to read the results, if it's representing, what you intend to say, and if it's correct, like a lecturer.
The longer the article, the more enduring. Fewer people will do it.
Hit return, or share, and a lot of crap is dispatched to the world, throughout all possible channels.
An "AI software script", initiated by a toddler? Not even a real opinion.
It is already happening. Misleading articles, falsified photos, and videos with "robot" voices. A lot of BS to find in social networks.
People with the wrong intention, know "how" to use it, and are willing to "abuse" it.
 

[scubascuba3]

3 hours ago, jesimps said:

I had my 80th birthday yesterday and in my 18th year of residence here. Never been in trouble with the law here or anywhere else, yet have several tattoos which I had done when in my late teens/early 20s when I was in the forces. Should I now be banned? 

We'll let you stay

[Ajarnbrian]

Not hard to find the types 123Stodg describes, or to hear their loud, over confident voices. But the case is overstated, most Westerners spending more time here show more wisdom and respect, don’t need to shout their mouth off and happily avoid the bars those ignorant types inhabit.

[animalmagic]

On 6/29/2024 at 5:23 PM, 123Stodg said:

I can't help but notice all the negative aspects about many of the expats I've come across in Thailand. It's disheartening to see that so many foreigners seem to fall into one of several categories: unpleasant, criminal, or otherwise problematic.

 

Firstly, the number of rude and disrespectful expats is staggering. It's as if some people left their manners at the airport. From obnoxious behavior in public to a complete lack of respect for Thai culture and people, these individuals don't add anything positive to the backdrop. It's also embarrassing and frustrating to witness. How hard is it to learn a few basic phrases in Thai, be a bit more polite, or follow simple cultural norms? Instead, we see loud, self-entitled behavior that screams, "I don't care about your country or your customs."

 

Secondly, the criminal element among some expats is alarming. Every other day, it seems like there's news of another foreigner involved in drugs, fraud, violence, some form of exploitation, or other illegal activities. It's as if Thailand has become a base for these unsavory characters. This not only tarnishes the reputation of the expat community but also undermines the safety and tranquility that many other expats came here seeking. Why should locals trust us foreigners when they see so many of our compatriots behaving so disgracefully?

 

Another troubling aspect is the noticeable lack of respect for local laws among some expats. Whether it's overstaying visas, working illegally, or engaging in shady business practices, these actions show a blatant disregard for the rules and regulations of the country that's hosting them. This kind of behavior only serves to alienate foreigners further from the local community.

 

The arrogance and superiority displayed by some expats is also deeply troubling. Many act as if they are better than the locals, displaying condescending attitudes and constantly complaining about Thailand and its people while refusing to adapt. This creates a toxic environment and further damages the relationship between expats and locals.

 

To add to the negativity, many expats seem perpetually angry, unfriendly, and dissatisfied with their lives in Thailand. It's baffling to see such resentment and unappreciative attitudes in people who have chosen to live in a foreign country. They complain endlessly about everything from the lack of safety to the frustrations with local customs, creating a cloud of negativity that affects everyone around them. Instead of appreciating the unique experiences and opportunities Thailand offers, these individuals seem to be stuck in a loop of dissatisfaction and bitterness, making it harder for other foreigners, who genuinely respect the country, to maintain good relations with locals.

 

Finally, there's the issue of health and hygiene. Some long-term expats neglect their health, often seen as very overweight, poorly groomed, and suffering from lifestyle-related illnesses due to poor diet, lack of physical activity and excessive alcohol consumption. This not only affects their quality of life but also perpetuates negative stereotypes about expats being unhealthy and unkempt.

 

Why is all this happening? Is it the lax visa regulations or the perception that Thailand is an easy place to hide that draws these types in? Whatever the reason, it's just sad and very disheartening.

Dunno, which category do you fall into? Are you unpleasant, criminal or problematic?

[Maitdjai]

3 hours ago, Walker88 said:

I've resided in numerous countries. Thailand does draw more than its fair share of miscreants, as does a place like the Philippines, but they are still in the minority. Miscreants, however, tend to be more visible.  I would attribute much of it to two things: the easy availability of female company, and a very flexible enforcement of laws.

 

For the former, hormones drive lots of guys to believe a 20 year old Isaan farm girl is attracted to a grossly overweight, fairly unsuccessful older geezer of quite modest financial means. Those guys come to 'live the dream'. They think women get weak in the knees over them, and many add a tatt or ten, thinking that increases their babe magnet-ness. If slighted by a street smart young lass, they get bitter and come to dislike all things Thai.

 

For the latter, Thailand draws the lo-so petty criminals, whereas the more upscale criminal types head to Monaco or Dubai or the Caymens or Bora Bora or Geneva.

 

The vast majority of expats taking up residence, retired or working, cause no trouble.

That cliché, combined with a kitchen table analysis suits many developing countries.

It even suits Western countries. It depends on which areas, or quarters you look at.
Also, you can survey a degeneration of "culture" in the developed world, not only created by "systemic" population replacement.
In Europe, Tattoos might get replaced by long beards and pyjama suits. Not only a few young European women fall for super-machos, with stone-age culture, and cavemen attitudes. Machete swinging lunatics in public transport is a daily event. If the "western sluts" don't fall, they get raped.
Gang rape of women and children isn't an exceptional offense anymore. No outcry, no outrage. In the US, it's similar, just with different accents.
It gets connected, what belongs together, some say.
You may ask, why do I mention all this? To show, how ridiculous and overloaded the whole topic is.

I live very well in TiT. With all that "trouble", created by foreigners.
Thank you for verifying, the majority of "ex-pats" do not make "trouble".
I want to add: The majority of "tourists" either.
So, all the wingers in TiT could move it home, to have reasons to winge, or to act as "the new sheriff in town".

 

 

Edited July 1 by Maitdjai

[earlinclaifornia]

crack pot

[scorecard]

On 6/29/2024 at 5:23 PM, 123Stodg said:

I can't help but notice all the negative aspects about many of the expats I've come across in Thailand. It's disheartening to see that so many foreigners seem to fall into one of several categories: unpleasant, criminal, or otherwise problematic.

 

Firstly, the number of rude and disrespectful expats is staggering. It's as if some people left their manners at the airport. From obnoxious behavior in public to a complete lack of respect for Thai culture and people, these individuals don't add anything positive to the backdrop. It's also embarrassing and frustrating to witness. How hard is it to learn a few basic phrases in Thai, be a bit more polite, or follow simple cultural norms? Instead, we see loud, self-entitled behavior that screams, "I don't care about your country or your customs."

 

Secondly, the criminal element among some expats is alarming. Every other day, it seems like there's news of another foreigner involved in drugs, fraud, violence, some form of exploitation, or other illegal activities. It's as if Thailand has become a base for these unsavory characters. This not only tarnishes the reputation of the expat community but also undermines the safety and tranquility that many other expats came here seeking. Why should locals trust us foreigners when they see so many of our compatriots behaving so disgracefully?

 

Another troubling aspect is the noticeable lack of respect for local laws among some expats. Whether it's overstaying visas, working illegally, or engaging in shady business practices, these actions show a blatant disregard for the rules and regulations of the country that's hosting them. This kind of behavior only serves to alienate foreigners further from the local community.

 

The arrogance and superiority displayed by some expats is also deeply troubling. Many act as if they are better than the locals, displaying condescending attitudes and constantly complaining about Thailand and its people while refusing to adapt. This creates a toxic environment and further damages the relationship between expats and locals.

 

To add to the negativity, many expats seem perpetually angry, unfriendly, and dissatisfied with their lives in Thailand. It's baffling to see such resentment and unappreciative attitudes in people who have chosen to live in a foreign country. They complain endlessly about everything from the lack of safety to the frustrations with local customs, creating a cloud of negativity that affects everyone around them. Instead of appreciating the unique experiences and opportunities Thailand offers, these individuals seem to be stuck in a loop of dissatisfaction and bitterness, making it harder for other foreigners, who genuinely respect the country, to maintain good relations with locals.

 

Finally, there's the issue of health and hygiene. Some long-term expats neglect their health, often seen as very overweight, poorly groomed, and suffering from lifestyle-related illnesses due to poor diet, lack of physical activity and excessive alcohol consumption. This not only affects their quality of life but also perpetuates negative stereotypes about expats being unhealthy and unkempt.

 

Why is all this happening? Is it the lax visa regulations or the perception that Thailand is an easy place to hide that draws these types in? Whatever the reason, it's just sad and very disheartening.

my guess is that any of the farang you allude to have heard lots of negative stories / easy girls-boys, / laz rules etc etc. and that's what entices many to come here. 

 

One example: I was shopping in the robinsons supermarket on Suk'vt Road. An American ( I guess 35 years old) approached me (he introduced himself as a proud American, but no name of other details) and said "you have to write me a recommendation letter".

 

I responded "I don't know you, I've never seen you before" He replied "not important just do the right thing and write the letter".

 

I refused and walked away, he followed me and said loudly "what's your problem, why can't we all work together?"

 

I went to the cashiers desks and said in Thai "I have a problem with the farang following me, please call the manager". 

 

Manager came with 2 security guards. I spoke briefly to the manager who indicated they had previously had problems with the same guy and manager called the tourist police who have an office nearby.

 

Tourist police came quickly, they knew the farang, Snr said in English "We will take him direct to the immigration detention centre (IDC).  And the Snr cop quickly gave the instruction to 2 tourist cops who quickly handcuffed the guy and marched him off.

 

Snr Tourist police guy shared in English "Here in Bkk we take between 1 and 20 farang direct to the IDC every day. 

[Maitdjai]

3 minutes ago, scorecard said:

my guess is that any of the farang you allude to have heard lots of negative stories / easy girls-boys, / laz rules etc etc. and that's what entices many to come here. 

 

One example: I was shopping in the robinsons supermarket on Suk'vt Road. An American ( I guess 35 years old) approached me (he introduced himself as a proud American, but no name of other details) and said "you have to write me a recommendation letter".

 

I responded "I don't know you, I've never seen you before" He replied "not important just do the right thing and write the letter".

 

I refused and walked away, he followed me and said loudly "what's your problem, why can't we all work together?"

 

I went to the cashiers desks and said in Thai "I have a problem with the farang following me, please call the manager". 

 

Manager came with 2 security guards. I spoke briefly to the manager who indicated they had previously had problems with the same guy and manager called the tourist police who have an office nearby.

 

Tourist police came quickly, they knew the farang, Snr said in English "We will take him direct to the immigration detention centre (IDC).  And the Snr cop quickly gave the instruction to 2 tourist cops who quickly handcuffed the guy and marched him off.

 

Snr Tourist police guy shared in English "Here in Bkk we take between 1 and 20 farang direct to the IDC every day. 

You're a "real" hero! How many medals do you have already?

Edited July 1 by Maitdjai

[Hummin]

3 hours ago, WDSmart said:

When you say "many of the expats I've come across in Thailand," do you mean those you've actually met and interacted with or those you've only read about? The reason I ask is, I've only met and interacted with a very few expats as those you describe. Those kinds of expats, however, are the ones I read about on AseanNews Forums and other news media. I think they make up a very small percentage of expats living in Thailand.

Of course, I don't live in or visit Bangkok or any other large city very often. And I also don't hang around taverns or seek out prostitutes. I think that also is a large part of this problem you are describing.

 

Travelling the country on motorbike you meet many of them living widely spread out, and hungry for a new face to speak to. Even in Pattya you meet them briefly when visiting bars for a drink or two. Everyone have a story to tell, as well have good advises to share. I guess I look like a rookie even after more than 20 years visiting and 8 years of living. 

 

The worst scenario was in Hua Hin, when a man in his 50´ies starting to share his lifestory out of the blue and warned me about Thai girls, when my then gf sitting next to me.

 

Common scenario expats speaking about their experiences with Thailand and girls when either their wife/gf or and my wife sit next to me. 

 

Unbelievable how many expats with no common sense or social intellegence floating around. 

Edited July 1 by Hummin

[JimHuaHin]

A good reason to avoid most foreigners in Thailand.

[Katatonica]

On 6/29/2024 at 6:50 PM, save the frogs said:

what's a man bun?

ban man boobs maybe? mandatory gym membership or no visa. 

It’s what a bobblehead has.

[NoshowJones]

On 6/29/2024 at 6:47 PM, Hummin said:

I got one tatto on my upper arm long time before it became mainstream, can hide it with a t-shirt, is it okay

I think the poster is referring to the half wits who cover large parts of their body with tattoos, not a small one or even two very small ones that can easily be covered up.

[NoshowJones]

On 6/29/2024 at 7:15 PM, jvs said:

And then there is Bob of course.

and GG.

[Hummin]

3 minutes ago, NoshowJones said:

I think the poster is referring to the half wits who cover large parts of their body with tattoos, not a small one or even two very small ones that can easily be covered up.

 😁

 

My compliment goes to everyone who do not care about their appearance, and some of the worse I see in combination

 

Singlet (chang type) 

Hairy shoulders and sweety armpits

Often overweight

Old cargo shorts

And flip flops

 

Walking hand in hand with some 42 kg 20 year old girl

 

[chuang]

Well what you expect from outcasts..

[Dr. Zorg]

Here is my 5c worth

Foreigners in Thailand: A Diverse Community

Thailand, with its vibrant culture, stunning landscapes, and warm climate, attracts a significant number of expatriates from around the world. While it’s essential to recognize the diversity within this community, I’ll address some common stereotypes and misconceptions associated with foreigners in Thailand.

1. Obese and Unhygienic:

• It’s unfair to generalize, but some foreigners may struggle with weight management due to lifestyle changes or dietary habits.
• Hygiene practices vary among individuals, regardless of nationality.

2. Sexpat Stereotype:

• Unfortunately, some foreigners come to Thailand seeking exploitative relationships or engaging in sex tourism.
• However, this label doesn’t apply to the entire expat community.

3. Old and Not in Good Health:

• Thailand is a popular retirement destination, attracting older expats seeking a relaxed lifestyle.
• While some may face health issues, many maintain active lives.

4. Criminal Types:

• Like any population, there are both law-abiding and criminal expatriates.
• Most foreigners contribute positively to Thai society.

5. Short of Money:

• Some expats live frugally, while others enjoy a comfortable lifestyle.
• Economic situations vary widely.

6. Neglect and Loud Behavior:

• Occasionally, expats may disregard local customs or show insensitivity.
• However, many genuinely appreciate Thai culture and respect their surroundings.

7. Self-Entitled Behavior and Arrogance:

• A minority of foreigners exhibit entitlement or arrogance.
• Most, though, embrace humility and cultural understanding.

8. Aggressiveness:

• Instances of aggression exist, but they’re not representative of the entire expat community.
• Many foreigners value peace and harmony.

Conclusion

Foreigners in Thailand form a rich tapestry of backgrounds, personalities, and experiences. It’s crucial to avoid stereotypes and recognize the positive contributions they make to Thai society. Let’s celebrate diversity and foster understanding! 🌟🤝

 

Edited July 1 by Dr. Zorg

[NoshowJones]

On 6/29/2024 at 10:31 PM, Galong said:

The moderators will let almost anything through these days. That's disappointing. 

I can remember up until recently the times when most topics you were answering you were treading on tiptoes half expecting some kind of warning.

That's not the case now, the admins seem to have full control of everything. You will always get the odd idiot, but I'm happier the way things are now.

[Hummin]

18 minutes ago, Dr. Zorg said:

Here is my 5c worth

Foreigners in Thailand: A Diverse Community

Thailand, with its vibrant culture, stunning landscapes, and warm climate, attracts a significant number of expatriates from around the world. While it’s essential to recognize the diversity within this community, I’ll address some common stereotypes and misconceptions associated with foreigners in Thailand.

1. Obese and Unhygienic:

• It’s unfair to generalize, but some foreigners may struggle with weight management due to lifestyle changes or dietary habits.
• Hygiene practices vary among individuals, regardless of nationality.

2. Sexpat Stereotype:

• Unfortunately, some foreigners come to Thailand seeking exploitative relationships or engaging in sex tourism.
• However, this label doesn’t apply to the entire expat community.

3. Old and Not in Good Health:

• Thailand is a popular retirement destination, attracting older expats seeking a relaxed lifestyle.
• While some may face health issues, many maintain active lives.

4. Criminal Types:

• Like any population, there are both law-abiding and criminal expatriates.
• Most foreigners contribute positively to Thai society.

5. Short of Money:

• Some expats live frugally, while others enjoy a comfortable lifestyle.
• Economic situations vary widely.

6. Neglect and Loud Behavior:

• Occasionally, expats may disregard local customs or show insensitivity.
• However, many genuinely appreciate Thai culture and respect their surroundings.

7. Self-Entitled Behavior and Arrogance:

• A minority of foreigners exhibit entitlement or arrogance.
• Most, though, embrace humility and cultural understanding.

8. Aggressiveness:

• Instances of aggression exist, but they’re not representative of the entire expat community.
• Many foreigners value peace and harmony.

Conclusion

Foreigners in Thailand form a rich tapestry of backgrounds, personalities, and experiences. It’s crucial to avoid stereotypes and recognize the positive contributions they make to Thai society. Let’s celebrate diversity and foster understanding! 🌟🤝

 

 

 

good list

 

but, Then it is only me and myself left. 

[RSD1]

22 minutes ago, Dr. Zorg said:

Here is my 5c worth

Foreigners in Thailand: A Diverse Community

Thailand, with its vibrant culture, stunning landscapes, and warm climate, attracts a significant number of expatriates from around the world. While it’s essential to recognize the diversity within this community, I’ll address some common stereotypes and misconceptions associated with foreigners in Thailand.

1. Obese and Unhygienic:

• It’s unfair to generalize, but some foreigners may struggle with weight management due to lifestyle changes or dietary habits.
• Hygiene practices vary among individuals, regardless of nationality.

2. Sexpat Stereotype:

• Unfortunately, some foreigners come to Thailand seeking exploitative relationships or engaging in sex tourism.
• However, this label doesn’t apply to the entire expat community.

3. Old and Not in Good Health:

• Thailand is a popular retirement destination, attracting older expats seeking a relaxed lifestyle.
• While some may face health issues, many maintain active lives.

4. Criminal Types:

• Like any population, there are both law-abiding and criminal expatriates.
• Most foreigners contribute positively to Thai society.

5. Short of Money:

• Some expats live frugally, while others enjoy a comfortable lifestyle.
• Economic situations vary widely.

6. Neglect and Loud Behavior:

• Occasionally, expats may disregard local customs or show insensitivity.
• However, many genuinely appreciate Thai culture and respect their surroundings.

7. Self-Entitled Behavior and Arrogance:

• A minority of foreigners exhibit entitlement or arrogance.
• Most, though, embrace humility and cultural understanding.

8. Aggressiveness:

• Instances of aggression exist, but they’re not representative of the entire expat community.
• Many foreigners value peace and harmony.

Conclusion

Foreigners in Thailand form a rich tapestry of backgrounds, personalities, and experiences. It’s crucial to avoid stereotypes and recognize the positive contributions they make to Thai society. Let’s celebrate diversity and foster understanding! 🌟🤝

 

100% composed by AI, but, well done, I really like the format. 

[VBF]

On 6/30/2024 at 7:45 AM, theblether said:

 

Many of the people who post political content on this forum have shallow lives. 

 

No sane person travels half-way round the world to troll themselves arguing with zealots. 

 

I get it, something newsworthy happens ( such as Bidens debate performance this week) its only normal to jump online and join the resulting fray. 

 

But the zealots are mentally ill. I saw someone post 80 plus times on that topic. And we have a few notorious hissy fitting mentally ill zealots on this forum. 

 

So don't engage with the mentally ill. And regard the activist types you mention as cuckoo's nest contenders. 

 

"Pack our bags, Dorothy, we're retiring to Thailand." 

"Why sweetie?" 

"I want to spend the rest of my life getting angry at people that I don't know over issues I can't control." 

"Okay, sweetie, here's your medication." 

 

 

Or, in the words of Wilbur Smith  "Avoid the company of losers, for their despair is contagious"

[VBF]

20 hours ago, save the frogs said:

so where is ChatGPT getting its information from?

It is called Generative Artificial Intelligence and the best way to answer your question is for you to search (Google, or Bing or whatever) that exact phrase.

You will almost certainly be one or more of the following:

Fascinated 

Amazed

Horrified

Scared 

Overwhelmed

 

Then look at my post immediately above where I say "AI is a great tool.....etc"

Edited July 1 by VBF

[Katatonica]

On 6/30/2024 at 4:57 PM, theblether said:

In case you don't know, shaving your head in Buddhism is associated with celibacy - the polar opposite of sexy. 

 

The notion that Thai women find bald heads sexy is ridiculous. 

 

The whole point of shaving your head as a monk, or "nun" is to renunciate fashion and sexuality. 

I'm sure they can also make their own minds up on that.

[theblether]

42 minutes ago, Katatonica said:

I'm sure they can also make their own minds up on that.

 

Let me guess. You're bald? 

 

Go get your lady to give you a wee kiss and tell you it's alright. 

[Dr. Zorg]

1 hour ago, RSD1 said:

100% composed by AI, but, well done, I really like the format. 

It took you a while? 

[Paris333]

In middle lines you have logical inquiries in your assumption but I would like to ask you where are from?
Are you from any western country or from Asian countries?

Europeans after the invasion of the illegal immigrants in their countries have become particularly rude.
You can't be nice in the EU to illegal immigrants from villages because they are uneducated and rude and the same applies in America.......
Thailand is an excellent safe country with quiet smiling noble people.

Europe -America States have many "investors" illegal immigrants who destroy our well being rich social system.

 

Illegal immigrants, the clowns throw down the sidewalk and the smart ones with Airbus in neighboring countries of immigration

 

A new $72,000 migrant smuggling route to the US begins with a charter flight and many Indians are waiting to board..............
When a Legend Airlines Airbus A340 landed at San Salvador airport on July 15 after an 18-hour flight from the United Arab Emirates, its crew quickly realized something was wrong.
Salvadoran officials refused to connect the bridge to allow the roughly 300 passengers, all Indian nationals, to disembark, according to three former flight crew members who spoke to Reuters on condition of anonymity.
Several passengers told the cabin crew they planned to travel to Mexico and cross the border there illegally into the U.S., a crew member said. Others said they were going on vacation to the Mexican border city of Tijuana, another crew member said.
Salvadoran officials were already on high alert when the flight landed. Several months earlier, US and Salvadoran authorities had noticed an unusual pattern of chartered planes in El Salvador carrying mostly Indian nationals.
The planes were arriving full and leaving empty, a US official said. And some passengers claiming to be tourists brought only one backpack for weeks-long trips.

U.S. authorities later discovered that nearly all of the charter passengers who disembarked in San Salvador had crossed the border into the U.S., the official said.

Source:

https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/nri/migrate/a-new-72000-migrant-smuggling-route-to-the-us-starts-with-a-charter-flight-and-many-indians-are-waiting-to-board/articleshow/111167134.cms?from=mdr

 

 

Edited July 1 by Paris333

[digger70]

On 6/29/2024 at 5:23 PM, 123Stodg said:

. It's disheartening to see that so many foreigners seem to fall into one of several categories: unpleasant, criminal, or otherwise problematic.

Isn't that the same  with foreigners in Any Country?

This is nothing new. why worry one can't change that.

[Smilin in Thailand]

To those who agree with OP's generalized prejudice rant I can only suggest that you open your eyes and realize how cowardly you are to point a finger at others in order to distract from your own faults.

 

You really have zero clue about the character and integrity of people you don't know.     Please find a more productive use of your time and stop filling the internet with the flatulence exuding from your failed ego.

[RSD1]

3 hours ago, Dr. Zorg said:

It took you a while? 

Yeah, it was like an entire one second. 

[still kicking]

My 2 cents worth 

I do watch a lot of movies or dramas in the west and in every movie when something happens, murder or whatever they say let's go to Thailand, why is that?