Zelensky Challenges Trump on War Plans, Decries Weapons Delays

[Lacessit]

1 hour ago, frank83628 said:

i was quoting what its said in the article, you read it too so you said...

The Russians lie like pigs in sh!t about everything, as a Russia fanboy the same can only be expected from you.

[thaibeachlovers]

On 7/9/2024 at 4:20 PM, Lacessit said:

You don't seem to understand Putin gets told what he wants to hear. Giving bad news to a despot results in poisoning, defenestration or incarceration in a gulag.

 

Sorry, I forgot. Words of more than one syllable are difficult for you.

 

 

Are you incapable of posting without insulting people you disagree with? It just gets boring.

[Tug]

5 hours ago, frank83628 said:

are you for real.? one of the lamest comebacks to have ever been posted on AN and you think its a 'gotcha'. 
 

Aww I think I touched a nerve lol actually I do worry about some here I don’t want anyone sent to putins meat grinder 

[animalmagic]

On 7/5/2024 at 9:48 AM, frank83628 said:

pretty sure he's pocketed quite a lot in the last 2+ years

Well, there we have it, incontrovertible truth. Frank 83628 is 'pretty' sure!

[ChicagoExpat]

On 7/5/2024 at 6:16 PM, BobBKK said:

 Some were, it is true, but not all. I wouldn't say I liked Yanukovich, but I liked US involvement less. Let Ukraine sort its destiny out - without USA or Russia.

That's an amazing statement to make.  Whatever U.S. involvement may or may not have been, Russia's is incomparably worse because it's, you know, murdering hundreds of thousands, stealing land, and destroying what it can't steal.  Yet not a word from you of condemnation of this type of involvement.

 

What a puzzle.

[thesetat2013]

On 7/5/2024 at 8:43 AM, frank83628 said:

yeah, because peace is not what is wanted, lets just carry on with people dying.......from the safety of your armchair

And you are saying Biden wants peace? Haha you are fooling yourself. there are 3 war fronts now active with more closely following across the world. Biden supports all of them providing weapons and money to continue fighting.  

I also believe you are the one sitting in your armchair and doing nothing about the wars or the people dying except complaining about Trump. 

 

The article makes a fair point. They see Trump as the winner in the election (so sorry for you about this) and want to know what to expect from him. So they can make plans for when that happens. 

As for NATO. They have more drills than they have interventions or participation to de-escalate things. Perhaps if NATO got involved at the first sign of problems then it would not have lasted for so many years already. Some other countries who belong to NATO do absolutely nothing. Just use the name when something bad happens in their country and they need assistance but nobody will help except NATO. Perhaps it is time to withdraw or create a new world peacekeeping group? One that actually takes action when their participants find some country invading their soil. 

[Hanaguma]

Zelensky needs to STFU, stop barging in on other peoples' parties, and cut a deal to end the war.  Otherwise he will run out of men to feed into the NATO sponsored meatgrinder. Other posters here have been quite honest about the fact that Ukraine is being used to degrade Russia's warfighting capacity. What those posters do NOT say is that they are quite content to use Ukranian lives to accomplish that goal. 

[Lacessit]

36 minutes ago, Hanaguma said:

Zelensky needs to STFU, stop barging in on other peoples' parties, and cut a deal to end the war.  Otherwise he will run out of men to feed into the NATO sponsored meatgrinder. Other posters here have been quite honest about the fact that Ukraine is being used to degrade Russia's warfighting capacity. What those posters do NOT say is that they are quite content to use Ukranian lives to accomplish that goal. 

Actually, people like you should STFU instead of giving aid and comfort to a Russian despot who does not care how many people he kills on either side.

[ChicagoExpat]

1 hour ago, Hanaguma said:

Zelensky needs to STFU, stop barging in on other peoples' parties, and cut a deal to end the war.  Otherwise he will run out of men to feed into the NATO sponsored meatgrinder. Other posters here have been quite honest about the fact that Ukraine is being used to degrade Russia's warfighting capacity. What those posters do NOT say is that they are quite content to use Ukranian lives to accomplish that goal. 

It's incredible how dishonest people can be about this topic.  The dishonesty is so blatant, so Kremlin-serving, so obvious, it's incredible that such claims are made -- and by people who would never actually choose to live in the country they promote.

 

Russia and Russia alone started this war.  Not NATO.  Not the EU.  Putin had many options in his continued pursuit of more land and a larger Russian Empire, and he chose violence -- as he has done in Georgia, previously in Ukraine, in Moldova, everywhere he has deployed Wagner.

[Purdey]

I doubt that NATO sees the Ukraine as an historical ally but more as the first in a series of small states that Russia wants. 

Edited July 11 by Purdey

[Eric Loh]

1 hour ago, Hanaguma said:

Zelensky needs to STFU, stop barging in on other peoples' parties, and cut a deal to end the war.  Otherwise he will run out of men to feed into the NATO sponsored meatgrinder. Other posters here have been quite honest about the fact that Ukraine is being used to degrade Russia's warfighting capacity. What those posters do NOT say is that they are quite content to use Ukranian lives to accomplish that goal. 

You really out-done yourself at grovelling to Putin. Zelensky stayed and fought the Putin's invasion. He is an inspiring wartime leader and a profound patriot. His heroism have mobilised the global community to respond to the invasion and to provide military, financial and humanitarian support to Ukraine and you want him to STFU ! That is disgusting, disrespectful and offensive to the people of Ukraine who support Zelensky all the way. 

[Tug]

1 hour ago, Hanaguma said:

Zelensky needs to STFU, stop barging in on other peoples' parties, and cut a deal to end the war.  Otherwise he will run out of men to feed into the NATO sponsored meatgrinder. Other posters here have been quite honest about the fact that Ukraine is being used to degrade Russia's warfighting capacity. What those posters do NOT say is that they are quite content to use Ukranian lives to accomplish that goal. 

Ahh putin started it not nato or the USA putin needs to stop it Zelenskyy is fighting for his nation’s existence.this is a PUTIN caused meat grinder as you well know

[Hanaguma]

9 minutes ago, Eric Loh said:

You really out-done yourself at grovelling to Putin. Zelensky stayed and fought the Putin's invasion. He is an inspiring wartime leader and a profound patriot. His heroism have mobilised the global community to respond to the invasion and to provide military, financial and humanitarian support to Ukraine and you want him to STFU ! That is disgusting, disrespectful and offensive to the people of Ukraine who support Zelensky all the way. 

I love the typical "if you don't agree with the war you must be Putin's puppy" logic that is displayed here so often. It is laughably simplistic.  TBH, if Putin keeled over dead tomorrow that would be fine with me. I would only worry about who would succeed him.

 

As for our green t-shirted little friend, he has a choice. Cut a deal or watch more of his people die. He isn't going to get the land back.  So save your faux outrage.  

[Hanaguma]

1 hour ago, Lacessit said:

Actually, people like you should STFU instead of giving aid and comfort to a Russian despot who does not care how many people he kills on either side.

I have no interest in giving aid and comfort to anyone.  What I do want is the conflict to end before it escalates into something out of control and potentially catastrophic.  Ukraine cannot win without NATO support in the form of footsoldiers and direct air power involvement. Yet that would give Russia the excuse to escalate the choice and quantity of weapons used. 

Tell me, which city in the UK or Europe would YOU be willing to throw into a nuclear fire for the chance to liberate the occupied parts of Ukraine?   It isn't a gamble that is worth taking IMHO. That is why I say cut a deal and end it. 

[ChicagoExpat]

On 7/8/2024 at 5:34 PM, frank83628 said:

Venezuala  is another country under attack by cancer USA

It makes sense that a guy who thinks NATO started Russia's war thinks Venezuela is "under attack" by no less than "CANCER USA"!  It was Venezuela that moved to reduce ties with the United States, not the other way around; Venezuela that appropriated U.S. property, not the other way around; Venezuela that took U.S. citizens as political prisoners, not the other way around.

 

Weird how hundreds of thousands of Venezuelans have moved to "CANCER USA" rather than stay in noble Venezuela.

 

Supporting both Putin AND Maduro?  You're a winner, Frank!  Never change.

[frank83628]

2 hours ago, thesetat2013 said:

And you are saying Biden wants peace? Haha you are fooling yourself. there are 3 war fronts now active with more closely following across the world. Biden supports all of them providing weapons and money to continue fighting.  

I also believe you are the one sitting in your armchair and doing nothing about the wars or the people dying except complaining about Trump. 

 

The article makes a fair point. They see Trump as the winner in the election (so sorry for you about this) and want to know what to expect from him. So they can make plans for when that happens. 

As for NATO. They have more drills than they have interventions or participation to de-escalate things. Perhaps if NATO got involved at the first sign of problems then it would not have lasted for so many years already. Some other countries who belong to NATO do absolutely nothing. Just use the name when something bad happens in their country and they need assistance but nobody will help except NATO. Perhaps it is time to withdraw or create a new world peacekeeping group? One that actually takes action when their participants find some country invading their soil. 

i think you misread my comment.

[Rimmer]

Unattributed post and replies removed

[Lacessit]

4 minutes ago, Hanaguma said:

I have no interest in giving aid and comfort to anyone.  What I do want is the conflict to end before it escalates into something out of control and potentially catastrophic.  Ukraine cannot win without NATO support in the form of footsoldiers and direct air power involvement. Yet that would give Russia the excuse to escalate the choice and quantity of weapons used. 

Tell me, which city in the UK or Europe would YOU be willing to throw into a nuclear fire for the chance to liberate the occupied parts of Ukraine?   It isn't a gamble that is worth taking IMHO. That is why I say cut a deal and end it. 

You may have no interest in giving aid and comfort to anyone. However, that's the end effect of your posting.

 

You also post inaccurately. AFAIK there are no official NATO footsoldiers in Ukraine. There may be volunteers.

 

The US has made it very clear to Putin if he escalates to nukes, Russia won't be the target. He will, and they can make it stick because satellite surveillance has him pin-pointed every minute of the day. It's why the nuclear threats and rhetoric have disappeared in recent months.

 

I guess you are the type of guy that would be out there licking the jackboots of any invader of your own country.

 

Russia is in no danger of being invaded by NATO. OTOH, eastern Siberia is incredibly vulnerable to being annexed by China, and they can see how weakened Russia is militarily by its adventure in Ukraine.

 

The Mololtov - Ribbentrop pact lasted barely 2 years before Operation Barbarossa. There's far more to be gained by getting Eastern Siberia than bringing Taiwan into the fold, and much less difficult.

 

 

[Eric Loh]

24 minutes ago, Hanaguma said:

I love the typical "if you don't agree with the war you must be Putin's puppy" logic that is displayed here so often. It is laughably simplistic.  TBH, if Putin keeled over dead tomorrow that would be fine with me. I would only worry about who would succeed him.

 

As for our green t-shirted little friend, he has a choice. Cut a deal or watch more of his people die. He isn't going to get the land back.  So save your faux outrage.  

If I move into your house and take over your household, do you negotiate with me to vacate or you call the police and ask for help. Are you too simplistic in viewing the war? Can Zalensky himself cut a deal and can Putin be trusted? Come on mate, don;t be naive. Putin is the cause of the invasion and it is existential as part of his imperialistic ambition. The invasion will end with Russia withdraw like in Afghanistan or Putin's demise or booted out of office. 

[Hanaguma]

3 minutes ago, Lacessit said:

You may have no interest in giving aid and comfort to anyone. However, that's the end effect of your posting.

 

You also post inaccurately. AFAIK there are no official NATO footsoldiers in Ukraine. There may be volunteers.

 

The US has made it very clear to Putin if he escalates to nukes, Russia won't be the target. He will, and they can make it stick because satellite surveillance has him pin-pointed every minute of the day. It's why the nuclear threats and rhetoric have disappeared in recent months.

 

I guess you are the type of guy that would be out there licking the jackboots of any invader of your own country.

 

Russia is in no danger of being invaded by NATO. OTOH, eastern Siberia is incredibly vulnerable to being annexed by China, and they can see how weakened Russia is militarily by its adventure in Ukraine.

 

The Mololtov - Ribbentrop pact lasted barely 2 years before Operation Barbarossa. There's far more to be gained by getting Eastern Siberia than bringing Taiwan into the fold, and much less difficult.

 

 

Ah yes, the old "bootlicker" shibboleth.  I was wondering when it would be trotted out.  But as usual you are getting caught up in your own vituperation to actually evaluate the situation. 

 

Do you see any way for Ukraine to get its land back without NATO involvement on the ground? Well, probably American involvement since most of NATO is not capable of much in the way of offensive operations.  But otherwise, Ukraine is in a pickle. They can pretty much keep their attacker at bay, but can't go on the offensive- last spring/summer proved that. So, where does that leave us? 

[Hanaguma]

4 minutes ago, Eric Loh said:

If I move into your house and take over your household, do you negotiate with me to vacate or you call the police and ask for help. Are you too simplistic in viewing the war? Can Zalensky himself cut a deal and can Putin be trusted? Come on mate, don;t be naive. Putin is the cause of the invasion and it is existential as part of his imperialistic ambition. The invasion will end with Russia withdraw like in Afghanistan or Putin's demise or booted out of office. 

I think "simplistic" would accurately describe your analogy. By "call the police", do you mean that NATO should jump in and force Russia back to the pre-war borders? Because that would be very very stupid. 

 

I don't disagree about the causes of the war at all. Putin invaded, his fault, couldn't win a complete victory, and now here we are. Gotta deal with reality today. I am not sure where else his "imperialistic ambition" can be used since Russia is surrounded by NATO member states. 

[Almer]

Trump answer is simple, divide the land and stop bickering, if that tack doesn't work shut the money off to Ukraine that will work for sure

[Eric Loh]

1 minute ago, Hanaguma said:

I think "simplistic" would accurately describe your analogy. By "call the police", do you mean that NATO should jump in and force Russia back to the pre-war borders? Because that would be very very stupid. 

 

I don't disagree about the causes of the war at all. Putin invaded, his fault, couldn't win a complete victory, and now here we are. Gotta deal with reality today. I am not sure where else his "imperialistic ambition" can be used since Russia is surrounded by NATO member states. 

Why you need to mention the ridiculous notion that Nato involved directly in the invasion. Nato has carefully caculated their involvement in helping Ukraine that will curtail a wider war.

 

Have you read Russia's foreign policy concept which Putin called the document a "basis for our practical actions in the mid-term and more distant future". The concept describe Russia ambitions beyond Ukraine and for Russia to contend against the West not just interms of military also in ideology. 

 

 

[Hanaguma]

9 minutes ago, Eric Loh said:

Why you need to mention the ridiculous notion that Nato involved directly in the invasion. Nato has carefully caculated their involvement in helping Ukraine that will curtail a wider war.

 

Have you read Russia's foreign policy concept which Putin called the document a "basis for our practical actions in the mid-term and more distant future". The concept describe Russia ambitions beyond Ukraine and for Russia to contend against the West not just interms of military also in ideology. 

 

 

A wider war is curtailed? Great. Now solve the current one without troops on the battlefield. Otherwise, you are just sending hundreds of Ukranians to their death every day. 

[Eric Loh]

12 minutes ago, Hanaguma said:

A wider war is curtailed? Great. Now solve the current one without troops on the battlefield. Otherwise, you are just sending hundreds of Ukranians to their death every day. 

Ukraine is defending. Russia is sending. 

[harryviking]

On 7/5/2024 at 3:42 AM, frank83628 said:

Zelinski ran his campaign on making peace with Russia!

Putin cannot be trusted on any peace deal!

[Hanaguma]

15 minutes ago, Eric Loh said:

Ukraine is defending. Russia is sending. 

A distinction without a difference. Whatever pedantic vocabulary you choose, the longer the war goes the more Ukranians will die. And Russians too. But Russia can afford the casualties. It is their way of fighting since the Napoleonic Wars.

[xylophone]

On 7/5/2024 at 9:11 AM, impulse said:

 

70 years ago when Europe was on its knees, it made sense for the USA to carry NATO and subsidize the cost.  Today, the Euros are just laughing while we subsidize their defense, 5000 miles away from our borders.  While they use their money for their own socialist needs.  It doesn't hurt my feelings at all that Trump demands the Euros pay their fair share.  They'll pony up before they let NATO fold. 

 

That's what you call the art of the deal.

LOL. Too much Kool Aid consumed on the way down the rabbit hole!! A book that trump didn't write, and according to sources, probably never even read and much more about trumps poor command of language and grammar can be found regarding this.....

 

Schwartz (the writer) later admitted that his motivation was purely financial. He needed the money to support his new family. According to Schwartz in July 2016, Trump did not write any of the book, choosing only to remove a few critical mentions of business colleagues at the end of the process.

His singular skill is convincing people that what they are observing with their own eyes isn’t true. We’ve seen that vividly around his decades-long claims of success as a business executive despite his myriad failures and then, as president, in his insistence that we’re “rounding the corner” as coronavirus cases soar and his false proclamations of innocence as he was impeached.”

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trump:_The_Art_of_the_Deal

 

[ChicagoExpat]

2 hours ago, Purdey said:

I doubt that NATO sees the Ukraine as an historical ally but more as the first in a series of small states that Russia wants. 

You are correct, I think.  Modern Ukraine was made in Russia's/the Soviet Union's image, and its desire for self-determination is what Russia cannot accept.  So, definitely not a historical ally at all.  But one we should support, and one key to the future of Europe.

[Eric Loh]

28 minutes ago, Hanaguma said:

A distinction without a difference. Whatever pedantic vocabulary you choose, the longer the war goes the more Ukranians will die. And Russians too. But Russia can afford the casualties. It is their way of fighting since the Napoleonic Wars.

If Russia didn’t send their troops, Ukraine need not defend. No casualties and no need for peace negotiation. Elementary Dear Watson.