Landlord refusing to do TM30 ?

[Rob Browder]

20 minutes ago, soi3eddie said:

Please, please, all folks here, save yourselves a huge amount of butt hurt by insisting that landlord supplies you with the required and signed copies of their ID card and Blue book before paying the deposit to rent from them.

Agree, but I have also been asked to show the chanote, before, so best to have that one also - especially if doing a marriage-based extension, where they may try throwing everything at you they can, to stop you doing it successfully.  I was asked for that to spite already having a current TM-30 on file, before - they wanted all of the same docs again.

[Liquorice]

6 hours ago, Rob Browder said:

Agree, but I have also been asked to show the chanote, before, so best to have that one also - especially if doing a marriage-based extension, where they may try throwing everything at you they can, to stop you doing it successfully.  I was asked for that to spite already having a current TM-30 on file, before - they wanted all of the same docs again.

Eight extensions based on Thai spouse and the Chanote has never been requested because the wife is registered as the householder in the Blue book.

 

There are situations where the Chanote may be requested, for example a foreign Condo owner who is not registered in the Blue book for the Condo.

Rental from a Thai, where the Thais are registered in a different Blue book than the property you are renting.

[sikishrory]

They ended up doing it today for free. When I asked on saturday they said they were on holiday so I needed to pay. However, I got the vibe that perhaps they were going to try to charge me for it regardless. This thread was just a pre-empt and I was also curious anyway about what happens in this situation.

The conclusion I reach from two pages of chit chat is that there is no clear course of action or way to hold them accountable.

There is a good point that it should be agreed upon when signing the contract. Since verbal agreements are worthless I would take it a step further and say it's reasonable to add it as a clause in the contract. This way they have some accountabilty and you have the right to forfeit the contract and leave.

[Rob Browder]

7 hours ago, Liquorice said:

Eight extensions based on Thai spouse and the Chanote has never been requested because the wife is registered as the householder in the Blue book.

 

There are situations where the Chanote may be requested, for example a foreign Condo owner who is not registered in the Blue book for the Condo.

Rental from a Thai, where the Thais are registered in a different Blue book than the property you are renting.

In any case, this is an issue which has nothing to do with one's extension.  You gave immigration the rental-contract and the person who rented it to you, and a map to the place.  They can (often do) come visit, to see if you really live there. 

 

Maybe it's a sub-let or whatever - who cares?  What does that have to do with immigration?  They can refer it to the land-office or tax-authorities if they want - but none of that has anything to do with the applicant or the validity of their reason for the extension.  

 

Use an agent, and none of this ever comes up - which provides a clue as to the real motivation for all this.

[NativeBob]

At CW some brit girl was denied 90 days registration for this reason: "no TM30 papers". Looked very upset, esp. after waiting for about 6+ hours. 

[mokwit]

5 minutes ago, Rob Browder said:

In any case, this is an issue which has nothing to do with one's extension.  You gave immigration the rental-contract and the person who rented it to you, and a map to the place.  They can (often do) come visit, to see if you really live there. 

 

Maybe it's a sub-let or whatever - who cares?  What does that have to do with immigration?  They can refer it to the land-office or tax-authorities if they want - but none of that has anything to do with the applicant or the validity of their reason for the extension.  

 

Use an agent, and none of this ever comes up - which provides a clue as to the real motivation for all this.

Some claim not, but TM30 is checked at CW even if they don't ask for hard copy. It is also checked indirectly via 90 day report - they won't extend without a 90 day report and you can't do that without a TM30 filed. Agents need TM30 docs at CW.

[sikishrory]

51 minutes ago, NativeBob said:

At CW some brit girl was denied 90 days registration for this reason: "no TM30 papers". Looked very upset, esp. after waiting for about 6+ hours. 

It's like renting a car then getting fined because the rental company didn't pay the rego or something... And you're not carrying their receipt.

It's completely illogical.

[Photoguy21]

On 7/28/2024 at 9:36 AM, sikishrory said:

I have a 90-day report due in Phuket in about a week. It's only the second one at this address since I usually leave the country before 90 days.

 

Last time, I also got a re-entry permit at the same time and can't quite remember the requirements for the 90-day report. Is it necessary to bring a copy of the completed TM30, or does it just need to be done? Additionally, I'm unsure whether the last report at this address, made prior to my re-entering Thailand, is still valid. I've read conflicting information.

 

I attempted to complete the report online but received an email stating:

"For first-time requests of a 90-day notification in each country visit, in-person presentation at the immigration office is required."

 

Last time, the landlord (an agent representing a condo owner) was efficient and handled the process promptly. However, this time they're asking me to pay them to do it.

 

Legally, it is the landlord's responsibility to submit the TM30, and they can (apparently) be fined 800 - 2000 baht if they fail to do so. In my view, asking for payment for a service they are required to perform is exploitative and borders on extortion.

 

Has anyone else experienced this? What is the best course of action? I'm considering seeking legal advice but wanted to check if there's an easier solution.

 

I should mention that I've seen signs about TM30 reporting in the condo lift before but haven't looked closely. Is it possible the condo management can handle the TM30 reporting and bypass the landlord? I plan to ask them later today.

You could get an agent to see if they can do it for you.

[NativeBob]

42 minutes ago, sikishrory said:

It's like renting a car then getting fined because the rental company didn't pay the rego or something... And you're not carrying their receipt.

Absolutely! The whole idea of TM30 requirements is nonsense. If evil foreigner wish to stay in Thailand under radar he will find the way. Thousands are here on huge XXX overstays and don't give a flying banana about it. But no, I have to pay to agent or waste whole day in that <deleted>hole waiting for "attendance" 

Last time it took almost 9 hrs door to door trip! 

[Liquorice]

4 hours ago, Rob Browder said:

In any case, this is an issue which has nothing to do with one's extension.  You gave immigration the rental-contract and the person who rented it to you, and a map to the place.  They can (often do) come visit, to see if you really live there. 

 

Maybe it's a sub-let or whatever - who cares?  What does that have to do with immigration?  They can refer it to the land-office or tax-authorities if they want - but none of that has anything to do with the applicant or the validity of their reason for the extension.  

 

Use an agent, and none of this ever comes up - which provides a clue as to the real motivation for all this.

You quoted and replied to my post, but I believe your reply was intended for a different poster.

[Liquorice]

2 hours ago, NativeBob said:

Absolutely! The whole idea of TM30 requirements is nonsense.

Why?

Thais have to supply accommodation details in visa applications to our Countries.

 

2 hours ago, NativeBob said:

Thousands are here on huge XXX overstays and don't give a flying banana about it. But no, I have to pay to agent or waste whole day in that <deleted>hole waiting for "attendance" 

Last time it took almost 9 hrs door to door trip! 

Join the flying banana brigade, or file it online and save on agent fees or 9-hour trips.

[Rob Browder]

4 hours ago, Liquorice said:

Thais have to supply accommodation details in visa applications to our Countries.

Showing the intended accommodation upon entry?  Sure.  But not the owner's title-deed, because that has nothing to do with a foreign renter's permit to be in the country.  It is certainly not a reason to try to break up a marriage by denying an extension of stay, because the owner won't or isn't around provide it.

[Liquorice]

20 minutes ago, Rob Browder said:

It is certainly not a reason to try to break up a marriage by denying an extension of stay, because the owner won't or isn't around provide it.

If the owner is refusing to give you signed copies of the Tabien Baan and ID card, then don't rent in the first place.

That should be made clear and a condition of you renting.

 

There are other situations when the owner isn't listed in the Blue book for the registered address, in which case title deeds may be required as proof of ownership.

Thais may own multiple properties, but they can only be registered in one blue book.

[Rob Browder]

13 hours ago, Liquorice said:

If the owner is refusing to give you signed copies of the Tabien Baan and ID card, then don't rent in the first place.

That should be made clear and a condition of you renting.

 

There are other situations when the owner isn't listed in the Blue book for the registered address, in which case title deeds may be required as proof of ownership.

Thais may own multiple properties, but they can only be registered in one blue book.

What does that have to do with immigration?   What the law requires is:
"I am married to this Thai person and our marriage is de-facto (KR-3 and KR-2), our marriage is de-jure (they can come visit), and we live here (rental contract + owner's ID), and I have the required 400K (bank-records).

 

As far as requiring the owner's House-Book, and Chanote (likely, unless he lives with you), yes - one must do this, or Immigration will force you to their "agent" - which is the only reason they ask for these in the first place / not part of the legal-requirements.

[Liquorice]

7 hours ago, Rob Browder said:

What does that have to do with immigration?   What the law requires is:
"I am married to this Thai person and our marriage is de-facto (KR-3 and KR-2), our marriage is de-jure (they can come visit), and we live here (rental contract + owner's ID), and I have the required 400K (bank-records).

That's the requirement for an extension.

The topic is about a TM30.

 

7 hours ago, Rob Browder said:

As far as requiring the owner's House-Book, and Chanote (likely, unless he lives with you), yes - one must do this, or Immigration will force you to their "agent" - which is the only reason they ask for these in the first place / not part of the legal-requirements.

What, you think they'll take your word as proof of your address?

[Rob Browder]

3 hours ago, Liquorice said:

That's the requirement for an extension.

The topic is about a TM30.

 

What, you think they'll take your word as proof of your address?

Both processes are Immigration matters.   You provide the owner's ID and your contract with them = done.  They can check with the owner if they don't believe you "really live there" - or come and see for themselves, if they want.  

 

If it's all fake, you could fake all the documents.  This is only a problem for HONEST people - as designed - they HATE honest people, who don't chip into their "fund."  Everything they do makes this crystal-clear.

[Liquorice]

6 hours ago, Rob Browder said:

Both processes are Immigration matters.   You provide the owner's ID and your contract with them = done.  They can check with the owner if they don't believe you "really live there" - or come and see for themselves, if they want. 

What you provide depends on your living situation.

 

6 hours ago, Rob Browder said:

If it's all fake, you could fake all the documents.  This is only a problem for HONEST people - as designed - they HATE honest people, who don't chip into their "fund."  Everything they do makes this crystal-clear.

Never in 11 years has it been suggested I 'chip' into a 'tea money' pot for any Immigration service.

If you register and file online, you can't be scammed.

 

It sounds as though you've had issues obtaining the correct documents to file, or dealt with a corrupt official.

[Rob Browder]

5 hours ago, Liquorice said:

What you provide depends on your living situation.

 

Never in 11 years has it been suggested I 'chip' into a 'tea money' pot for any Immigration service.

If you register and file online, you can't be scammed.

 

It sounds as though you've had issues obtaining the correct documents to file, or dealt with a corrupt official.

In almost all cases, AGENTS handle the envelope-money collection, to hide what is happening.  But, there are exceptions, such as the infamous 15K extortion for a 90-Day Non-O stamp in Jomtien, where that service is handled in a private office - reported here repeatedly for many years. 

 

Nowadays, they seem to have moved the "additional landlord docs" to the TM-30 stage, itself, in order to force people to use agents to get the TM-30 filed, when they do not have access to documents unrelated to their immigration-status. 

 

This isn't happening due to some rare, rogue, corrupt official - it is the PURPOSE of the process.  Don't fall for the Orwellian double-think propaganda.  Once one understands the nature of the system, dealing with it is much easier / less-stressful. 

 

In this case, be aware that Immigration has a TRAP SET for TM-30 submissions, to generate Agent-Money, and the "workaround" is requiring your landlord to provide their private ownership documents, or you cannot sign a lease.