Tax Return 2025

[rattlesnake]

58 minutes ago, CharlesHolzhauer said:

This is hilarious. Thailand is the Shangri-la for the disadvantaged, underprivileged and riffraff.

Mostly decent middle-class people from what I have seen.

[Mutt Daeng]

23 hours ago, CharlesHolzhauer said:

On 8/12/2024 at 5:25 AM, Mutt Daeng said:

That is not an official Thai government website. It's from some law firm.

This one is not:

https://www.rd.go.th/english/index-eng.html

Yes, I wasn't disputing the info, merely the fact that some of these "official sounding" websites often have incorrect info on them.

[chiang mai]

4 hours ago, Everyman said:

I am visiting Vietnam and there are many recent former Thailand expats here. There are many nomads and retirees and nobody is concerned about any tax laws. 

I'm sure there are, but without reliable statistics your evidence is anecdotal and nothing more.

[oldestswinger]

17 hours ago, norbra said:

Similar yes,but in my case I was not required to show any documents as the officer advised that I do not need a TIN. The officer explained that as my income/assets were in my home country currency it would not be taxed only income derived from employment in Thailand would be assessable.

This was exactly the same as my experience when trying to get a TIN.

[SouthThailand]

20 hours ago, KhunHeineken said:

Many are lucky enough their renewal falls after the 31st March 2025, so they can sit back and wait and watch.

 

TRD: "Taxpayer is liable to file Personal Income Tax return and make a payment to the Revenue Department within the last day of March following the taxable year."

 

Anybody going before Friday 29 March 2025 to immigration for extension, can say they will file tax declaration tomorrow.

Immigration agrees and will grant you your extension.

After Monday 31 March 2025 you cannot say that anymore and you might have to show your tax declaration, because you should have declared your tax already by then.

 

I would say you can sit back and relax until Monday 31 March 2025, then the show might start.

 

 

[jesimps]

22 hours ago, KhunHeineken said:

It's not a rumor, it's an obvious method available to Thai authorities in regards to tax enforcement for expats.  Thus, it's a prediction, and not just from me, but from many others as well, and worthy of some consideration, especially as you already need to produce some documents at extension time.  If it's being discussed by expats, you can bet the Thai authorities have considered it, because it's so obvious. 

 

A "rumor" would be someone posting on here "My friend at the TRD told me you will need a certificate of clearance for your extension."  That's spreading a rumor. 

 

There's a difference between a rumor and a prediction. 

 

I just can't see the Thai's allowing people like yourself, and others, to continue on as normal, doing nothing about Thai tax policy.  If they allowed you to do nothing, everyone else would do nothing, thus no money for them. 

 

They will have something up their sleeve to force you into their tax system.  At this stage, what it is, we don't know, but there's a lot of money just sitting there, untapped, and I can't see the Thai's giving farang a free pass.  

 

A certificate of clearance at extension time is only one of many methods they have available to them, but it would be the easiest and cheapest way to force farang to make contact with the TRD, rather than the TRD chasing the farang. 

 

I keep an open mind as to what they can / will do here, and "we" may be able to get away with doing nothing for a while, but eventually I can see them scooping up all farang that have been inside Thailand for 180 days in a calendar year and making them pay "something" and when I use the word "something" it could be as simple as 300 baht for a certificate of clearance, just like the certificate of residence, making the Thai tax policy a joke for many, but a nice earner for the TRD, which sends the money up the chain. 

 

Time will tell. 

To get a TIN from my local tax office at Jomtien I reckon I'd have to beat it out of them. I went there with my Thai missus a couple of months back and they flatly refused to issue one. The lady behind the desk said something like "You have  British passport, you pay tax in your own country. Need number only if you work here". No amount of reasoning could convince her, so I left numberless.

[koolkarl]

So many clucking hens.  Thailand is a member of OECD and has signed the CRS agreement with more than 40 countries.  Thailand did this as there are advantages to Thailand.  If Thailand wants to keep these advantages, they must adhere to the rules of OECD and CRS.  Living in Thailand more than 180 days a year makes one a Thai tax resident, thus supposed to file a Thai tax return by March 2025.  It is easy for immigration to link your visa renewal to proof of you filing a Thai tax return, whether you like it or not.  The CRS effects are yet to be implemented. 

[Presnock]

On 8/11/2024 at 11:59 AM, BritManToo said:

Same for me, no TM30 for 10 years, then immigration asked for one. Went to the office, they said "why is there no record of you in our system". I said, it beats me, how could that happen?

Then they decided it was a glitch in their system, made out my TM30, no fine.

Actually they used to have the TM28 which was like the TM30 but required of the expat versus the home/business owner.  Then they dropped the TM.28 and shortly thereafter they came after the expats as they weren't getting that many "volunteers" to do it officially.  But, once they did this ,making the expats do it but mostly for those living in long-term rented/spouse owned establishments versus tourist residences/hotels.  Once I was informed that I had to do it, I went to immigration with my wife and did that and so far after several years have had no problems.

[Sevenomma]

I am Norwegian and Norway has taxagreement deal with Thailand. I have paid tax to Thailand from day 1 since I moved here 3 years ago. In Norway I paid 30% tax. In Thailand I pay 6% tax. So I dont understand why you even discuss this. For me it is reallly beneficial. I get paid 140 000 thb every month. After tax. This is retirement pension. Please explain to me why you dont want to pay tax to Thailand??

[itsari]

16 minutes ago, Sevenomma said:

I am Norwegian and Norway has taxagreement deal with Thailand. I have paid tax to Thailand from day 1 since I moved here 3 years ago. In Norway I paid 30% tax. In Thailand I pay 6% tax. So I dont understand why you even discuss this. For me it is reallly beneficial. I get paid 140 000 thb every month. After tax. This is retirement pension. Please explain to me why you dont want to pay tax to Thailand??

I receive a Norwegian pension and pay 15 percent of the gross to Norway. 

It was explained to me that I can pay tax in Thailand if I wanted . 

I decided to leave it paying the Norwegian tax as I could only see a saving of 5 percent paying Thai Tax .

Maybe I can look again from what you are saying .

[Ben Zioner]

27 minutes ago, Sevenomma said:

I am Norwegian and Norway has taxagreement deal with Thailand. I have paid tax to Thailand from day 1 since I moved here 3 years ago. In Norway I paid 30% tax. In Thailand I pay 6% tax. So I dont understand why you even discuss this. For me it is reallly beneficial. I get paid 140 000 thb every month. After tax. This is retirement pension. Please explain to me why you dont want to pay tax to Thailand??

What you say here applies only to Norwegians in your income bracket. If I settled in France, one of me "home countries" I'd pay half the tax I could have to pay in Thailand; in France they tax the family unit (wife and 2 kids so divide by by (1+1+.5+.5), while in Thailand they tax the individual (please don't mention this ridiculous 60k spouse allowance). 

 

The system here is totally twisted as only a minority of poor middle class idiots get hammered. The submissive bludgers pay zilch and most of those with sizeable income from businesses pay zilch because they have friends. That leaves only the medium/upper salaries to prey upon.

 

And I don't believe you pay only 6% IT in Thailand on 140000 Baht a month your IT will be above 200000 a year. Uo to 245000. I based my assertion on this calculator.

[Sevenomma]

20 minutes ago, Ben Zioner said:

What you say here applies only to Norwegians in your income bracket. If I settled in France, one of me "home countries" I'd pay half the tax I could have to pay in Thailand; in France they tax the family unit (wife and 2 kids so divide by by (1+1+.5+.5), while in Thailand they tax the individual (please don't mention this ridiculous 60k spouse allowance). 

 

The system here is totally twisted as only a minority of poor middle class idiots get hammered. The submissive bludgers pay zilch and most of those with sizeable income from businesses pay zilch because they have friends. That leaves only the medium/upper salaries to prey upon.

 

And I don't believe you pay only 6% IT in Thailand on 140000 Baht a month your IT will be above 200000 a year. Uo to 245000. I based my assertion on this calculator.

If you know how to get discount on tax it is possible. But I dont want to spend time discussing with people who dont have knowledge about this. You obvisiously dont know a <deleted>. 

[Sevenomma]

27 minutes ago, itsari said:

I receive a Norwegian pension and pay 15 percent of the gross to Norway. 

It was explained to me that I can pay tax in Thailand if I wanted . 

I decided to leave it paying the Norwegian tax as I could only see a saving of 5 percent paying Thai Tax .

Maybe I can look again from what you are saying .

Up to you. I have disability pension. That is why I paid 30 % in Norway. I learned myself about tax. I went to taxoffice and they helped me. My wife was with me because they dont talk english. But you know that if you stay in Thailand more than 180 days, you HAVE TO pay tax?! I live here permanently.

[itsari]

4 minutes ago, Sevenomma said:

Up to you. I have disability pension. That is why I paid 30 % in Norway. I learned myself about tax. I went to taxoffice and they helped me. My wife was with me because they dont talk english. But you know that if you stay in Thailand more than 180 days, you HAVE TO pay tax?! I live here permanently.

I receive an old age pension hence the 15 percent tax in Norway. 

With the likely demand for the need for filing a tax return I would be better to visit the tax office and pay tax in Thailand when residing more than 180 days even if it is only a small saving .

Did you need to notify the Norwegian authorities when changing to the Thai tax ? Or does the Thai authorities notify Norway of the change?

 

[Jenkins9039]

On 8/11/2024 at 11:20 AM, NorthernRyland said:

you're taking about Thai nationals and ones with big money. How many Thais don't pay tax and evade? I bet the number is shocking but not surprising. We foreigners don't know what goes on, we just show up to immigration with our stacks of paper and go off aloof until the next year. They're not going to treat us like Thai millionaires running underground businesses I'm sure of that much.

A vendor i know had his accounts frozen and his wife had to go to BKK to pay 1.1m THB for 950k personal tax evasion.

[Ben Zioner]

1 hour ago, Sevenomma said:

If you know how to get discount on tax it is possible. But I dont want to spend time discussing with people who dont have knowledge about this. You obvisiously dont know a <deleted>. 

Great, welcome to Aseannow.

[KhunHeineken]

2 hours ago, jesimps said:

To get a TIN from my local tax office at Jomtien I reckon I'd have to beat it out of them. I went there with my Thai missus a couple of months back and they flatly refused to issue one. The lady behind the desk said something like "You have  British passport, you pay tax in your own country. Need number only if you work here". No amount of reasoning could convince her, so I left numberless.

Yet, we have a member post that they wish to retire here in the near future, thus need to seed their 800k baht, so approached Bangkok Bank who refused to open a bank account for them unless they had a TIN.

 

As I have said, there will be chaos, and the Thai's will be making up rules on the fly.  Requirements will differ from province to province.  It will be frustrating, and humorous at the same time.  There may be a mine field to navigate, full of "Catch 22.'s."  

 

However, in my opinion, at the end of the day, the Thai's will turn a baht out of this, one way or another. 

 

Strap yourself in.   It's going to be quite a ride. 

[KhunHeineken]

2 hours ago, Sevenomma said:

I am Norwegian and Norway has taxagreement deal with Thailand. I have paid tax to Thailand from day 1 since I moved here 3 years ago. In Norway I paid 30% tax. In Thailand I pay 6% tax. So I dont understand why you even discuss this. For me it is reallly beneficial. I get paid 140 000 thb every month. After tax. This is retirement pension. Please explain to me why you dont want to pay tax to Thailand??

Can you tell me what "benefit" you got for paying tax here? 

 

Most, including myself, have paid zero tax whilst living here, VAT aside. 

 

Why do you proudly post that you have paid money for nothing here? 

[Doctor Tom]

1 hour ago, Sevenomma said:

But you know that if you stay in Thailand more than 180 days, you HAVE TO pay tax?!

No, you don't  

[KhunHeineken]

3 hours ago, SouthThailand said:

 

TRD: "Taxpayer is liable to file Personal Income Tax return and make a payment to the Revenue Department within the last day of March following the taxable year."

 

Anybody going before Friday 29 March 2025 to immigration for extension, can say they will file tax declaration tomorrow.

Immigration agrees and will grant you your extension.

After Monday 31 March 2025 you cannot say that anymore and you might have to show your tax declaration, because you should have declared your tax already by then.

 

I would say you can sit back and relax until Monday 31 March 2025, then the show might start.

 

 

 

Fair point.  

 

I think I have that the wrong way around then.  If your extension is due between 1st January and 31st March you may sail through.  After 31st March you MAY be required to product some type of tax document at extension time.  So, we may have to wait until the 1st April 2025 to see what happens.  

 

This question may have been asked before, but with so many posts and threads I may have missed it, but can you apply for a tax return extension here?  In other words, can you apply to submit your tax after the 31st March?  If so, that might be a good idea so one can sit back, legally, and watch what unfolds after the 31st March 2025.    

[Doctor Tom]

25 minutes ago, KhunHeineken said:

 

Fair point.  

 

I think I have that the wrong way around then.  If your extension is due between 1st January and 31st March you may sail through.  After 31st March you MAY be required to product some type of tax document at extension time.  So, we may have to wait until the 1st April 2025 to see what happens.  

 

This question may have been asked before, but with so many posts and threads I may have missed it, but can you apply for a tax return extension here?  In other words, can you apply to submit your tax after the 31st March?  If so, that might be a good idea so one can sit back, legally, and watch what unfolds after the 31st March 2025.    

Why are so many people making stuff up and pushing out BS. Talk about deluded. 

[KhunHeineken]

18 hours ago, rattlesnake said:

I am personally witnessing expats leaving in droves (overreacting IMO, but that is the situation). When the Thai authorities realise by next year that the initial intent (to fill the coffers) is having the opposite effect (less expats, less investment, damaged image compared to neighbouring countries…), I expect them to simply shove it under the carpet, where it will be just one more "terrible good idea that doesn't get enforced".

I think you will find it's the more wealthy expats that will spend 6 months outside of Thailand, and that's because they stand to pay a considerable amount of tax in Thailand, yet receive zero for the money.  I don't blame them for leaving.  One must assess whether Thailand still remains a value for money retirement destination when compared to other locations. 

 

As for the average expat pensioner, there will be little tax to pay, but a little of a little may still have an impact on their lifestyle. 

 

There is some truth to what you say, the wealthy will reconsider investing, and possibly relocate, thus, leaving behind the not so wealthy.  The opposite to what any country would want.

 

I can't see it being swept under the carpet because this is global, and not just confined to Thailand.  In the future, many more countries will implement the same tax policies. 

 

The days of tax havens, through tax residency, are slowly coming to an end. 

[KhunHeineken]

5 minutes ago, Doctor Tom said:

Why are so many people making stuff up and pushing out BS. Talk about deluded. 

So, it's all fake news, is it? 

[KhunHeineken]

19 hours ago, Everyman said:

 

Okay, so in a year when nothing like that has happened will this topic finally be put to bed or will there will be some new enforcement prediction to replace it?

Happy to hear why YOU think nothing will happen, especially considering easy MONEY is involved.  

[Doctor Tom]

1 minute ago, KhunHeineken said:

So, it's all fake news, is it? 

No, its people reading stuff into the regulation that are not there. Its people panicking when they have no need to do so.  Its people on forums spreading nonsense as fact. I will not be paying any of this new tax as I am not a Thai National, or tax resident, not registered for tax,  here earning money from overseas.    

[KhunHeineken]

20 hours ago, rattlesnake said:

Now that sounds more realistic!

I've said it from Day 1. 

 

All this discussion about what's assessable, what was savings before 2024, thresholds, gifts, allowances, deductions, using ATM's etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc. 

 

I have said we all may just have to pay "something" and that "something" may not actually be the correct amount of tax you must pay as per the law, but it earns for the TRD, either legit or otherwise, and appears to developed western countries that Thailand is implementing tax residency policy, and world wide taxation, in an efficient manner. 

[norbra]

3 minutes ago, Doctor Tom said:

No, its people reading stuff into the regulation that are not there. Its people panicking when they have no need to do so.  Its people on forums spreading nonsense as fact. I will not be paying any of this new tax as I am not a Thai National, or tax resident, not registered for tax,  here earning money from overseas.    

Agreed, the easy money KH refers to has been available to the RD for decades.

[KhunHeineken]

21 hours ago, Yumthai said:

What I know is the ones who live hand to mouth certainly do not reach the threshold to pay tax.

 

The issue is with the remaining large part whose income qualify them to pay tax but do not. Those ones certainly use bank accounts, as Thailand becoming cashless, in order to fully enjoy their money. Their income is therefore as traceable as foreigners' remittances.

Many countries will become cashless in the future, some of them maybe in my lifetime. 

 

When that time comes, how do you propose anyone with a bank account being able to escape the notice of their tax department? 

[Yumthai]

5 minutes ago, KhunHeineken said:

I think you will find it's the more wealthy expats that will spend 6 months outside of Thailand, and that's because they stand to pay a considerable amount of tax in Thailand, yet receive zero for the money. 

The most wealthy people are able to legally structure themselves to pay zero to little tax anywhere they want to live. In Thailand, they can apply for LTR visa to be 100% tax exempted on their remitted offshore income.

[KhunHeineken]

8 minutes ago, Yumthai said:

The most wealthy people are able to legally structure themselves to pay zero to little tax anywhere they want to live. In Thailand, they can apply for LTR visa to be 100% tax exempted on their remitted offshore income.

True. It remains to be seen how many may move to the LTR, as they see a financial benefit to do so.  It would be interesting to see some accurate stats next year.