Taxation of foreighners in S/E Asia?

[swissie]

Taxation of foreighners an issue in Thailand. As I gather from different news sources, Laos, Vietnam and Cambodia also tax foreighn income. Only the Philippines do not. True/False?

If true, no escape left.

[ukrules]

There's plenty of room for 'escape', just make sure you don't stay anywhere for more than about 180 days per year.

 

 

[Everyman]

As with driving motorcycles on sidewalks, helmet laws, smoking laws, fire codes, prostitution, etc, enforcement is the issue. And there isn’t any. So rest easy. 

[freeworld]

7 hours ago, ukrules said:

There's plenty of room for 'escape', just make sure you don't stay anywhere for more than about 180 days per year.

 

 

Interesting read being tax resident nowhere.

 

https://nomadcapitalist.com/global-citizen/nomad-tax-trap-living-nowhere-harder/

[motdaeng]

3 hours ago, Everyman said:

As with driving motorcycles on sidewalks, helmet laws, smoking laws, fire codes, prostitution, etc, enforcement is the issue. And there isn’t any. So rest easy. 

 

i would agree with you... until the law is enforced. then, someone among you might end up in trouble, and it could hit you really hard.

 

i doubt you'll be able to dodge the tax laws as easily as some traffic rules by ignoring them or pretending not to know... but hey, it's your choice!

[jaywalker2]

7 minutes ago, motdaeng said:

 

i would agree with you... until the law is enforced. then, someone among you might end up in trouble, and it could hit you really hard.

 

i doubt you'll be able to dodge the tax laws as easily as some traffic rules by ignoring them or pretending not to know... but hey, it's your choice!

Are they really going to start auditing foreign retirees bringing a few hundred thousand baht into the country each year? Considering the fact that only about 25 percent of Thais file income tax.

[Henryford]

It's a cheek to tax us here in Thailand. We have absolutely no rights, can not vote, can not buy land, i am on in effect an extended tourist visa which they can terminate at any time. I have to report like a criminal every 90 days. No chance of ever being a citizen. Yet they expect us to pay tax !!

[Moonlover]

12 hours ago, swissie said:

Taxation of foreighners an issue in Thailand. As I gather from different news sources, Laos, Vietnam and Cambodia also tax foreighn income. Only the Philippines do not. True/False?

If true, no escape left.

Yet another rumour monger. Where's your evidence Swissie?

 

Let's have your references.

[chiang mai]

10 minutes ago, Henryford said:

It's a cheek to tax us here in Thailand. We have absolutely no rights, can not vote, can not buy land, i am on in effect an extended tourist visa which they can terminate at any time. I have to report like a criminal every 90 days. No chance of ever being a citizen. Yet they expect us to pay tax !!

Playing devils advocate.....did you think you could move here to live and not have to contribute directly to the construction and maintenance of roads, airports, public hospitals, the police force, the government, schools and universities?

[Dmaxdan]

7 minutes ago, chiang mai said:

Playing devils advocate.....did you think you could move here to live and not have to contribute directly to the construction and maintenance of roads, airports, public hospitals, the police force, the government, schools and universities?

Yes, because the majority of Thailand's own working population don't financially contribute directly to what you have mentioned above. They need to go after their own people first.

[chiang mai]

2 minutes ago, Dmaxdan said:

Yes, because the majority of Thailand's own working population don't financially contribute directly to what you have mentioned above. They need to go after their own people first.

Hmmm, they don't so we shouldn't....not sure I buy that but each to their own.

[motdaeng]

27 minutes ago, jaywalker2 said:

Are they really going to start auditing foreign retirees bringing a few hundred thousand baht into the country each year? Considering the fact that only about 25 percent of Thais file income tax.

 

no one knows the answer, but keep in mind, this is thailand... anything can happen! 

thinking it won’t happen is one way to cope, but some of us prefer to be proactive. 

 

and if some foreigners believe it won’t happen because of:

- other laws aren’t enforced either
- most thais don’t pay taxes
- foreigners are too important to upset

- they lack the technical expertise or the manpower to effectively enforce the law
- they can't enforce it without some benefit in return for us
- etc.

 

honestly, i think these foreigners are being naive, because the thai government

couldn’t care less about us or what happens to us or our families ...

 

there aren't many countries where you can live without paying taxes...

thailand used to be an exception, but that's no longer the case...

 

[Yumthai]

1 hour ago, chiang mai said:

Hmmm, they don't so we shouldn't....not sure I buy that but each to their own.

"When in Rome, Do as the Romans Do"
This wise quote is still topical for centuries.

[Henryford]

1 hour ago, chiang mai said:

Playing devils advocate.....did you think you could move here to live and not have to contribute directly to the construction and maintenance of roads, airports, public hospitals, the police force, the government, schools and universities?

 

Ever heard of the term no taxation without representation. I am just a glorified tourist, do they pay taxes? I would be happy to pay tax for bridges and schools if i was accepted as a legal resident.

[Yumthai]

1 hour ago, motdaeng said:

there aren't many countries where you can live without paying taxes...

Plenty of countries where Tax Law is laxly enforced for some reasons, corruption being the main one.

[brianthainess]

No one has started paying tax on foreign income yet so I wouldn't worry yet.

[Presnock]

2 hours ago, jaywalker2 said:

Are they really going to start auditing foreign retirees bringing a few hundred thousand baht into the country each year? Considering the fact that only about 25 percent of Thais file income tax.

But they can't refuse visa extensions to the local Thais.  Most Thais that are not paying taxes probably don't make enough to survive hardly let alone pay taxes too.  However, tax residents that pay no taxes to any country are one of the stated reasons that the OECD agreement of 2023 was signed by 138 countries around the world including some of the Autocratic ruled countries.  Eventually, I do think that the world revenue departments will become aware of all those that do not pay any tax to any country and will seek ways to eventually get them.  As Benjamin Franklin  siad over 200 years ago - the only certainty in one's life is death and taxes  or words to that effect.  

[KhunHeineken]

6 hours ago, Everyman said:

As with driving motorcycles on sidewalks, helmet laws, smoking laws, fire codes, prostitution, etc, enforcement is the issue. And there isn’t any. So rest easy. 

Enforcement of the laws you mention are labor intensive.  It involves police, check points etc.  Or, fire inspections etc.  For foreigners remitting money into bank accounts, computers will do the job.  Big  difference.   

[KhunHeineken]

2 hours ago, Moonlover said:

Yet another rumour monger. Where's your evidence Swissie?

 

Let's have your references.

Are you suggesting all the Thai government announcements about it are AI generated deep fakes by online trolls?  

[Presnock]

2 hours ago, Moonlover said:

Yet another rumour monger. Where's your evidence Swissie?

 

Let's have your references.

Philippines doesn't tax pensions, other SEA countries have various rules and regulations concerning expats just takes a little search and reading to find out if any fit into one's lowest or no tax to be paid.  By ignoring the laws about taxation and seeking ways to avoid ever paying taxes to any country is why these international agreement come  to fruition.  Eventually, all will probably be shut down by changes in tax residency or visa extensions, etc.  My opinion as it seems this is the start here in Thailand anyway and am sure it is going on in other countries too.

[Celsius]

3 hours ago, freeworld said:

Interesting read being tax resident nowhere.

 

https://nomadcapitalist.com/global-citizen/nomad-tax-trap-living-nowhere-harder/

 

People don't get it. 

 

You cannot be a tax resident nowhere anymore. This travelling 180 days to Laos, Cambodia will bite you back once your own birth country starts asking questions. 

 

Just recently I received a letter from my Canadian bank (RBC) to provide them with a Thai tax number. If this is not satisfied, they will terminate my account. 

 

Fortunately, I am returning back next year as I suspect things will get really difficult in the future. Saved enough to live in Canada and own the property.... and looking forward to many freebies.... healthcare, dental and money if I ever go broke, Will vote for Trudeau the enabler forever. 

 

 

[norbra]

IMO For openers;

The Thai Finance dept was well aware of those using the deferred remits of international income as they had tax id numbers of all concerned.

Secondly, the Sept 2023 modification to the tax code only closed that "loophole" which did not require any vast changes to tax collection procedures.

So expats were never their target and is the reason behind the TRD refusing to issue Tax Identifier Numbers.

Just my take on this issue.

[Yumthai]

1 hour ago, KhunHeineken said:

For foreigners remitting money into bank accounts, computers will do the job.

Easy workaround: do not remit money in your name to any local financial institution.

[Everyman]

1 hour ago, Celsius said:

 

People don't get it. 

 

You cannot be a tax resident nowhere anymore. This travelling 180 days to Laos, Cambodia will bite you back once your own birth country starts asking questions. 

 

Just recently I received a letter from my Canadian bank (RBC) to provide them with a Thai tax number. If this is not satisfied, they will terminate my account. 

 

Fortunately, I am returning back next year as I suspect things will get really difficult in the future. Saved enough to live in Canada and own the property.... and looking forward to many freebies.... healthcare, dental and money if I ever go broke, Will vote for Trudeau the enabler forever. 

 

 

 

If there is a new paradigm, US citizens actually have an advantage since they can’t lose US tax residency. As long as they file every year, there’s no problem from Uncle Sam’s perspective. 

[chiang mai]

2 hours ago, Henryford said:

 

Ever heard of the term no taxation without representation. I am just a glorified tourist, do they pay taxes? I would be happy to pay tax for bridges and schools if i was accepted as a legal resident.

There's a world of difference between an entire country being taxed by another, without governmental representation than there is the taxation of foreign tax residents by the country they live in.

[Moonlover]

2 hours ago, KhunHeineken said:

4 hours ago, Moonlover said:

Yet another rumour monger. Where's your evidence Swissie?

 

Let's have your references.

 

2 hours ago, KhunHeineken said:

Are you suggesting all the Thai government announcements about it are AI generated deep fakes by online trolls?  

How did you manage to turn a question into a suggestion?

[Moonlover]

1 hour ago, Yumthai said:

Easy workaround: do not remit money in your name to any local financial institution.

That should go down well with those (many of) who use their monthly incomes to facilitate their annual extensions.

[riclag]

9 hours ago, Everyman said:

As with driving motorcycles on sidewalks, helmet laws, smoking laws, fire codes, prostitution, etc, enforcement is the issue. And there isn’t any. So rest easy. 

Im inclined to agree!

Unless I get a demand letter from the IO when I report or something similar, I’ll act accordingly!

 

I’m not sure about this Countries security  measures in regards to safe guarding my personal data! I had several issues here in the past with Credit Card fraud and I also learned that scammers working in institutions 

sell data to nefarious actors!

 

When covid hit here there was a massive data leak involving millions on their health department portal

 

https://www.nationthailand.com/thailand/general/40036516

[Celsius]

2 hours ago, riclag said:

Im inclined to agree!

Unless I get a demand letter from the IO when I report or something similar, I’ll act accordingly!

 

Thailand will probably do nothing.

 

Your country is the one you need to worry about.

 

Kinda like landlord refusing to do TM30. You are still responsible and penalized.

 

The way UKAUS/CAD/EUR is going it is going to be like this. Please provide your Thai Tax number confirming residency or we will stop your pension until conditions are satisfied.

 

There will be weeping of epic propportions 

[topt]

2 hours ago, Celsius said:

Please provide your Thai Tax number confirming residency or we will stop your pension until conditions are satisfied.

For starters Just having a TIN doesn't obligate you to file a return.

 

UK tax return already has boxes to put where you are tax resident (if you are being honest)........and you do not have to give a TIN. 

If you are still saying you are resident for tax in the UK or haven't said you are not then HMRC are not going to know anyway - and yes I am aware of the days test.........