Making a Drive way - weed matt yes or no?

[stupidfarang]

Hi, am making a drive way on good soil, have built it up by about half a meter in height and now waiting for the earth to settle. My question is about weed matt, is it a good idea to use? Will be placing heen klook (หินคลุก). It's designed for making roads and will place a layer of around 30cm.

 

Any hints on how to get a good drive greatly appreciated.

[sometimewoodworker]

3 hours ago, stupidfarang said:

Hi, am making a drive way on good soil, have built it up by about half a meter in height and now waiting for the earth to settle. My question is about weed matt, is it a good idea to use? Will be placing heen klook (หินคลุก). It's designed for making roads and will place a layer of around 30cm.

 

Any hints on how to get a good drive greatly appreciated.

You need something to prevent it disappearing into the soil. I used both shade cloth and the standard blue plastic sheet (on different sections) that you can get in 100 meter (I think) rolls before laying gravel on it. We haven’t bothered to stop the grass as we like the more rustic look. I think the drive has been down  over 7 years and it is still perfectly OK and hasn’t needed extra gravel 

This was when it was about a year old in 2017

 

and last year

[stupidfarang]

Excellent, just what I am hoping for. Did you use heen klook stone on the drive and how deep was the layer of stone? I am a complete amatuar on this so any advice greatly appreciated. Here is a pic of the ground we are working on, is in Ranong, land never floods.

[GreasyFingers]

With any driveway or road you need to compact the base as best you can. Thais will use a backhoe but a roller is better. If that is compacted and dry you should not need the weed mat.

When you lay the heen klook make sure you water it as you are compacting. It would also be better to lay it in two layers of 150mm instead of the one 300mm.

[Bday Prang]

Good luck with finding a roller,  the only ones I ever see are on large highway / construction projects,  Smaller contractors are unlikely to posses one  and would probably be reluctant to hire one in.   They may have a vibrating plate compactor which would be better than nothing ( but only just)   

  To be honest all the fill under the proposed driveway  should have been compacted as it was being spread out ( not just the stone on top)   

 300mm  of stone will be fine, spread it in layers as thin as possible and compact it as best you can with whatever is available, Backhoe,  Tractor and even the wagons delivering the stone will all provide some compaction but obviously a roller is the best option.

   Depending on how heavily the driveway is trafficked  some wheel track ruts may develop over time but that would probably happen  to some degree no matter how  well you compacted it.  Any such ruts can simply be filled with a sprinkling of a little more stone if  required

   It would be a different story if you planned to  lay concrete over the stone as any settlement due to poor compaction might result in the concrete cracking, but  assuming you don't intend to do that then no need to worry about it

[Will B Good]

Don't know if it still exists....or has been greatly improved/changed names.....but when I laboured on building sites we used lay down TERAM or TARAM ?

 

It acts as a one way membrane allowing water to sink down through it but prevents anything coming back up through it.

[sometimewoodworker]

9 hours ago, stupidfarang said:

Excellent, just what I am hoping for. Did you use heen klook stone on the drive and how deep was the layer of stone? I am a complete amatuar on this so any advice greatly appreciated. Here is a pic of the ground we are working on, is in Ranong, land never floods.

I didn’t use “heen klook stone” it would possibly have been better and maybe cheaper, I just used the standard stone used in concrete. 
 

As to how deep, enough to cover the shade cloth or blue sheet on the drive but not quite enough on the parking area.

 

as you can see

 

the drive used about 5 cubic meters just possibly 10 I don’t remember 

 

1 hour ago, GreasyFingers said:

With any driveway or road you need to compact the base as best you can.

excellent advice 

 

1 hour ago, GreasyFingers said:

If that is compacted and dry you should not need the weed mat.

with that I totally disagree, having seen  drives that have not used a base , in a few years or less the stone has disappeared and has more added.

 

the suggestion to use 150mm or 300mm of stone while maybe well intentioned will probably be ludicrously expensive. If you just doo the math  your drive is probably 2 to 3 meters wide wile I have no idea of the length ours is about 30 meters long, yours looks to be several hundred metres. So with the suggested thickness you are looking at hundreds of cubic meters of stone.

 

the cost of a few rolls of blue sheet, which will reduce the amount of stone you will need both now and in the future will easily pay for itself 

[GreasyFingers]

26 minutes ago, Bday Prang said:

Good luck with finding a roller,  the only ones I ever see are on large highway / construction projects,  Smaller contractors are unlikely to posses one  and would probably be reluctant to hire one in.   They may have a vibrating plate compactor which would be better than nothing ( but only just)   

I agree but I have seen them occasionally around here.

 

Most problems with driveways/roads are caused by water. From the photo there does not seem to be much slope to take the water away. He will need catch drains down either side with a few (several) tail drains to take  the water away from the driveway.

 

If he is going to build at the end of the driveway he has to remember the weight of cement/delivery trucks is different to cars. That is why compaction is so important to cater for all vehicles.

 

[GreasyFingers]

2 minutes ago, sometimewoodworker said:

the suggestion to use 150mm or 300mm of stone while maybe well intentioned will probably be ludicrously expensive.

I was only commenting on what the OP said he would do (30cm).

[sometimewoodworker]

3 hours ago, GreasyFingers said:

I was only commenting on what the OP said he would do (30cm).

I missed that, however for his use it would be rather OTT don’t you think?
 

I don’t know the length of the drive but a 3 meter wide drive is a quite narrow one, ours is between 4 and 5 meters 

 

anyway for 50 meters x 4 meters x 30 cm he needs 78.5 cubic yards or over 100 tons

At a more reasonable 3 cm it is still probably overkill but is 7.8 Cu or 2 bigger trucks 

 

I suspect we used about 1.5 cm and probably 5 cu metres

[stupidfarang]

12 hours ago, GreasyFingers said:

I agree but I have seen them occasionally around here.

 

Most problems with driveways/roads are caused by water. From the photo there does not seem to be much slope to take the water away. He will need catch drains down either side with a few (several) tail drains to take  the water away from the driveway.

 

If he is going to build at the end of the driveway he has to remember the weight of cement/delivery trucks is different to cars. That is why compaction is so important to cater for all vehicles.

 

agree, there is not much of a slope and the photo only shows the first layer of earth. It was raining when they placed the earth (Ranong, highest rainfall in Thailand) so am waiting until December for the dry season and then will place more earth on the drive and create a high point in the middle with run off to the sides and will place plastic drain pipes in to take the water away. 

[stupidfarang]

9 hours ago, sometimewoodworker said:

I missed that, however for his use it would be rather OTT don’t you think?
 

I don’t know the length of the drive but a 3 meter wide drive is a quite narrow one, ours is between 4 and 5 meters 

 

anyway for 50 meters x 4 meters x 30 cm he needs 78.5 cubic yards or over 100 tons

At a more reasonable 3 cm it is still probably overkill but is 7.8 Cu or 2 bigger trucks 

 

I suspect we used about 1.5 cm and probably 5 cu metres

The drive will be 3m wide, I have to go back and measure the length of the drive and then will work out the amount of gravel required. We will not be living in the house, only stay when visiting family nearby. Thanks for the input, appreciated

[stupidfarang]

13 hours ago, sometimewoodworker said:

I didn’t use “heen klook stone” it would possibly have been better and maybe cheaper, I just used the standard stone used in concrete. 
 

As to how deep, enough to cover the shade cloth or blue sheet on the drive but not quite enough on the parking area.

 

as you can see

 

the drive used about 5 cubic meters just possibly 10 I don’t remember 

 

excellent advice 

 

with that I totally disagree, having seen  drives that have not used a base , in a few years or less the stone has disappeared and has more added.

 

the suggestion to use 150mm or 300mm of stone while maybe well intentioned will probably be ludicrously expensive. If you just doo the math  your drive is probably 2 to 3 meters wide wile I have no idea of the length ours is about 30 meters long, yours looks to be several hundred metres. So with the suggested thickness you are looking at hundreds of cubic meters of stone.

 

the cost of a few rolls of blue sheet, which will reduce the amount of stone you will need both now and in the future will easily pay for itself 

Appreciate the input, I am learning from everyones experince.

[stupidfarang]

13 hours ago, Bday Prang said:

Good luck with finding a roller,  the only ones I ever see are on large highway / construction projects,  Smaller contractors are unlikely to posses one  and would probably be reluctant to hire one in.   They may have a vibrating plate compactor which would be better than nothing ( but only just)   

  To be honest all the fill under the proposed driveway  should have been compacted as it was being spread out ( not just the stone on top)   

 300mm  of stone will be fine, spread it in layers as thin as possible and compact it as best you can with whatever is available, Backhoe,  Tractor and even the wagons delivering the stone will all provide some compaction but obviously a roller is the best option.

   Depending on how heavily the driveway is trafficked  some wheel track ruts may develop over time but that would probably happen  to some degree no matter how  well you compacted it.  Any such ruts can simply be filled with a sprinkling of a little more stone if  required

   It would be a different story if you planned to  lay concrete over the stone as any settlement due to poor compaction might result in the concrete cracking, but  assuming you don't intend to do that then no need to worry about it

agree with needing luck, the goverment is building a biiger highway from Ranong to Phuket so am hoping to get one of the rollers from the road works, a strectch I know but a cash incentive may help. 

[GreasyFingers]

10 hours ago, sometimewoodworker said:

I missed that, however for his use it would be rather OTT don’t you think?
 

I don’t know the length of the drive but a 3 meter wide drive is a quite narrow one, ours is between 4 and 5 meters 

 

anyway for 50 meters x 4 meters x 30 cm he needs 78.5 cubic yards or over 100 tons

At a more reasonable 3 cm it is still probably overkill but is 7.8 Cu or 2 bigger trucks 

 

I suspect we used about 1.5 cm and probably 5 cu metres

3cm might be enough for dry season but will fail in the wet. It looks like the OP is going to wait until the dry, which is a good idea, but will still need to be watered in.

[Kinok Farang]

Like any construction job,preparation is the key.

Dig out your top soil to roughly 12 inches from your finished level.Sub base of road stone 8inches.Roll it with a roller or wacker-plate then roll it again and again.Blind it with sand,then block pave or tarmac.

If your finish is concrete don't forget to leave your expansion joints.

[sometimewoodworker]

5 hours ago, GreasyFingers said:

3cm might be enough for dry season but will fail in the wet. It looks like the OP is going to wait until the dry, which is a good idea, but will still need to be watered in.

I disagree with that analysis our drive is around 1.5 cm and it hasn’t failed in over 7 years of tropical storms.

[Kinok Farang]

20 hours ago, Will B Good said:

Don't know if it still exists....or has been greatly improved/changed names.....but when I laboured on building sites we used lay down TERAM or TARAM ?

 

It acts as a one way membrane allowing water to sink down through it but prevents anything coming back up through it.

Terram.

[Bday Prang]

11 hours ago, stupidfarang said:

agree with needing luck, the goverment is building a biiger highway from Ranong to Phuket so am hoping to get one of the rollers from the road works, a strectch I know but a cash incentive may help. 

good idea, why not  have a word with the guy who drives the grader too ,  they do a better job than a backhoe and a lot quicker as well

[Bday Prang]

20 hours ago, sometimewoodworker said:

I missed that, however for his use it would be rather OTT don’t you think?
 

I don’t know the length of the drive but a 3 meter wide drive is a quite narrow one, ours is between 4 and 5 meters 

 

anyway for 50 meters x 4 meters x 30 cm he needs 78.5 cubic yards or over 100 tons

At a more reasonable 3 cm it is still probably overkill but is 7.8 Cu or 2 bigger trucks 

 

I suspect we used about 1.5 cm and probably 5 cu metres

              looking at that picture from the the OP  there is no way simply    "sprinkling"  3 cm of any sort of stone on that track  would provide a  substantial  foundation, no matter how well compacted ,  with or without a weed mat  Once the heavy rain starts it would only be useable by a tractor

.             if he intends building a property at the end of it,   then in reality Its not really just  a driveway he is constructing, it is more like an access road.  wagons delivering concrete and other construction materials would soon render it impassable  in the rainy season . and the last thing he wants is a wagon full of concrete bogged down up to its axles as its load starts to harden rapidly in the heat of the sun.  

               I wouldn't really like to guess what depth of stone is needed until I had actually seen what kind of material  the existing land consists of  and how it  the surrounding  area is affected by rainfall and grounwater.

               I would be thinking along the lines of  removing any topsoil and civilising  the ground off to some sort of  level , then  rolling out some sort of "terram"  type material or the nearest available equivalent.  Following that I would be looking for some  (generally cheaper ) slightly larger stone  maybe around 75mm nominal size  ( back in the UK we used to use demolition rubble or "hardcore")  which would compacted in two layers to give a thickness of around 200mm     Then I would use graded roadstone  (40mm or thereabouts  to dust)  which I think is what the OP is referring to as "hin klook"  to give a 100mm thick final layer.  Ideally with a bit of cross fall to help shed any rain water

                 The additional expense of the graded stone is worth it in my opinion as the different sized particles  bind together under compaction providing a tightly knit running surface which is resistant to rutting and if compcted properly is almost akin to concrete.

                 I would avioid single sized 20mm concrete aggregate stone like the plague, in this situation  as it  doesn't bind together , tends to rut very easily and ultimately ends upscattered  all over the place  Its also not very nice trying to ride a motorcycle on it    Although I'm sure its  ok as a surface dressing  in  lightly trafficked domestic  diveway situations  

[Bday Prang]

5 hours ago, sometimewoodworker said:

I disagree with that analysis our drive is around 1.5 cm and it hasn’t failed in over 7 years of tropical storms.

That has more to do with the ground below than the stone sprinkled on top of it , Also your driveway does appear to be slightly higher than the surrounding land which obviously helps.

  The conceting stone you used is  generally referred to as being 20mm nominal size.   So the "surface dressing " you have applied ontop of the plastic sheet   at  around one "stone" thick  has no structural significance    it might help stop your wheels spinning  when the ground is wet ,  and it stops you getting your shoes caked in mud  but other than that its purpose is purely aesthetic

[sometimewoodworker]

15 hours ago, Bday Prang said:

That has more to do with the ground below than the stone sprinkled on top of it , Also your driveway does appear to be slightly higher than the surrounding land which obviously helps.

  The conceting stone you used is  generally referred to as being 20mm nominal size.   So the "surface dressing " you have applied ontop of the plastic sheet   at  around one "stone" thick  has no structural significance    it might help stop your wheels spinning  when the ground is wet ,  and it stops you getting your shoes caked in mud  but other than that its purpose is purely aesthetic

You can surmise what ever you like. That you are totally wrong maybe if interest to you or it may not.

 

As to the structural strength, again you are guessing. Our drive has had everything from a 40 Tonne articulated lorry through 10 wheel 7 tonne tricks to a tricycle over it with zero problems and no it was never properly compacted nor structurally layered 

[Ben Zioner]

U need Geotextile. Google it.

 

Thailand is 40 years behind when it comes to road building. 

[Bday Prang]

4 hours ago, sometimewoodworker said:

You can surmise what ever you like. That you are totally wrong maybe if interest to you or it may not.

 

As to the structural strength, again you are guessing. Our drive has had everything from a 40 Tonne articulated lorry through 10 wheel 7 tonne tricks to a tricycle over it with zero problems and no it was never properly compacted nor structurally layered 

Perhaps you should consider applying for a job with the highways department , you would save them a fortune on road construction costs

[AlexRRR]

On 8/24/2024 at 8:25 PM, stupidfarang said:

Hi, am making a drive way on good soil, have built it up by about half a meter in height and now waiting for the earth to settle. My question is about weed matt, is it a good idea to use? Will be placing heen klook (หินคลุก). It's designed for making roads and will place a layer of around 30cm.

 

Any hints on how to get a good drive greatly appreciated.

Weed mats are a waste of money, the wind blows grass and weed seeds all around and end up in pockets here and there, either go for a solid drive way or gravel, the gravel you can rake a few times a year and spray some poison if it really bothers you, back in AU one house I had 7 ys with gravel driveway...was fairly easy to keep on top of.

[stupidfarang]

22 hours ago, Ben Zioner said:

U need Geotextile. Google it.

 

Thailand is 40 years behind when it comes to road building. 

They may be behing but they sure build a lot and have less potholes than a UK road

[brianthainess]

First I put down some stones 'Hin' get the truck to run it out and drive over it, then I put down Black builders plastic and then more Hin on top about 3".