Its Happening - Law to Tax Overseas Income Now in Progress

[Pouatchee]

26 minutes ago, DrPhibes said:

But leaving the US, you have to declare $10,000 or more to US customs.

 

the declaring funds over a certain amount is the same everywhere it seems

[JimGant]

1 hour ago, Ebumbu said:

Definitely what? Are you saying I'll be taxed on income I've already paid US income tax on? That would indeed be unacceptable.

What is it about tax credits that you don't understand? The DTA between Thailand and US designates which country has primary taxation rights -- and thus gets to keep all taxes collected -- and which country has secondary taxation rights -- and has to absorb a credit for the taxes paid to the primary country.

 

Have an IRA or private pension? DTA says Thailand has primary taxation rights. So, you have to file with them, and pay full-up taxes -- no credit from US. But, you also have to file with the US (per saving clause, meaning US always has at least secondary taxation rights). As such, when you file your US return, you use a tax credit for the Thai taxes paid to reduce one-for-one your US taxes for the taxes paid Thailand. Bottom line: Your tax bill under this new worldwide Thai taxation scheme will be the same as if you never paid taxes to Thailand.

 

So, file in March with Thailand, and pay their taxes on your declared private pensions and IRAs. Then, file with US, and reduce your tax bill by the Thai tax credit.

 

Like to file early with US? You can figure out on the back of an envelope what your Thai tax will be on the US pensions/IRAs, by January. US doesn't need any formal paperwork to justify the tax credit, so just go ahead with your US tax return, with the numbers from the back of the envelope. Not too complicated. No double taxation -- unless you think having to file with two countries defines "double taxation, " but ignoring the credit aspect.......?

[Thaindrew]

1 hour ago, Rolo89 said:

With the arrive of the DTV will there will be lots of "not rich" people where this tax won't make much difference for?

 

 

it is not clear that the DTV will be tax free if you are here over 180days, with the proposed global tax method requiring new legislation the DTV and indeed the LTR visas will not be auto-exempt, they are only exempt under the current legislation 

Edited September 10 by Thaindrew

[motdaeng]

42 minutes ago, Will B Good said:

 

 

So, on the off chance someone is kind enough to respond.....will this plan work re: avoiding tax?

 

1. Stick my 400k baht in the bank and forget about....leave it to just sit there.

2. Bring money over as gifts to my wife's bank account

 

and/or

 

3. Draw cash from the ATM.

 

Any good?

 

no! that has been discussed many times already ...

[Ebumbu]

5 minutes ago, JimGant said:

What is it about tax credits that you don't understand?

 

Everything. I'm not entirely clear about your answer. Therefore, I need an accountant. I have one bookmarked. Any recommendations? I'd better hand this off. Thanks for advice, but taxes is clearly not my song suit. Best to know what I don't know. Let some accountant find all the loopholes. 

[jwest10]

On 9/9/2024 at 1:35 PM, Presnock said:

AGREE wholeheartedly!  Myself, I am waiting for the Thai revenue Dept to amend their tax laws that say I even though I don't have assessable income that I must get a Tax ID number and file for taxes even though I don't have any assessable income.  Until then, I will ignore the revenue dept office as I await their latest scheme announcement...possibly when the "NEW" tax forms come out in Nov-Dec  maybe.

Well said  Presnock

[JimGant]

8 minutes ago, Ebumbu said:

Therefore, I need an accountant. I have one bookmarked. Any recommendations?

Sorry. They're all fixated with the blood in the water.

[jwest10]

15 hours ago, Mike Teavee said:

It's not just your bank that shares the data, E.g. HMRC (UK Tax Authority) also shares data with Thailand under CRS.  

 

I did mention this and HMRC started to come up on my UK internet banking system and yes noticed it was in red???

[pub2022]

Scaremongering post

[chiang mai]

2 hours ago, TroubleandGrumpy said:

You are correct - but you are also wrong.  Firstly I never said that 'the US cannot monitor a US credit card usage overseas'. I was referring to the TRD not being able to check/trace US bank records. They can get the BOT records from each local Bank, but they cannot (yet?) get the bank records from US Banks.  

 

All of what you said is correct regarding money exchanges between country, but wrong about what the TRD can use to track/check money transfers between Thai/USA. It is the CRS system that Thai TRD can use to track/trace financial transactions for the purposes of tax evasion. The USA is not a member of the CRS, because they went their own way in 2015 and started their own Foreign Account Tax Compliance Act (FATCA). That is used by USA only for their own tax evasion purposes - because as you might know all US citizens must pay income taxes to USA whether they live in USA or not. TRD has no immediate access to FATCA data held by USA Banks, unlike the bank records that they can get (Raw data) using the CRS system. 

My apologies, I misread your post.

[CharlesHolzhauer]

41 minutes ago, Will B Good said:

So, on the off chance someone is kind enough to respond.....will this plan work re: avoiding tax?

1. Stick my 400k baht in the bank and forget about....leave it to just sit there.

2. Bring money over as gifts to my wife's bank account

and/or

3. Draw cash from the ATM.

Any good?

I personally doubt your strategy will work. You may wish to consider a slight modification to your plan.

1. Consider deposit 400k or 800k THB in a term-deposit account, allowing it to accrue interest. A term deposit typically offers higher interest rates compared to a regular savings account.

2. Remit money annually from your overseas account as a gift to your wife's account, with the intention of making this a tax-compliant gift. By legally gifting the money, you can make the argument that the funds belong to your wife, not yourself, which could help manage any tax liabilities.

3. An affidavit from you witnessed by your lawyer would serve as a legal document that declares the money you’re remitting is a gift to your wife. This document could be used as proof in case of any tax audits or legal inquiries. Specifying a purpose, like a marriage anniversary, birthday, purchase of a new car or land/house can add more clarity to the gift's intent.

4. Optional if you can afford it.  Follow the Personal Income Tax (PIT) guidelines and remit a minimal amount of money to your own bank account (THB 600K). If you are 65 and married you won't be liable for any taxes. This method may help avoid unnecessary scrutiny or tax liabilities enforcing that you monetary gift to your wife is genuine.

5. Since withdrawing large sums of cash via ATMs may attract attention from tax authorities or create complications, I would recommend to avoid this unless absolutely necessary, as it can be a gray area in terms of tax obligations.

[jwest10]

4 hours ago, chiang mai said:

There is a personal allowance of 60k for yourself plus 60k for your wife, if you file jointly.

 

There is a then a 190k deduction for being over age 65 years.

 

If you have an overseas pension that you bring into Thailand, there is up to 100k in deductions for that.

 

Finally, the first 150k is zero rated for tax. 

 

It's easily possible for an over aged 65 years pensioner to have deductions/allowances/zero rated of 550k.

 

Yes, correct  but my wife does not work and has no Tin or  but we both have id cards  and she has a Thai one and me a pink one but can calim the 60k for her

[Presnock]

3 hours ago, lordgrinz said:

 

https://www.khaosodenglish.com/featured/2024/08/31/expert-urges-government-to-raise-tax-for-foreign-condo-buyers/

after reading that my feelings for Thais have definitely changed.  It was bad enough with the higher costs for farangs to visit parks, etc, then the tax scheme and a possible even greater scheme - but this takes the cake.  Seems everyone with any power or connection to power here is coming up with more and more ways to soak the expats here. 

[redwood1]

17 minutes ago, Thaindrew said:

it is not clear that the DTV will be tax free if you are here over 180days, with the proposed global tax method requiring new legislation the DTV and indeed the LTR visas will not be auto-exempt, they are only exempt under the current legislation 

 

So are you saying Thailand pulled a scam with the LTR visa like they did with the Elite visa?............

 

Like the Elite had perfect timing for dramatically raising the price....But you got the old price if you renewed in the few months before the soon to be announced income  tax plan.......lol............( they had the Elite visa renewal timed  almost to the day of the income tax announcement)

 

 I am sure they already knew about the world wide income tax when they were punishing the LTR visa too.......Sooooooooooo scam or not?

 

 

[jwest10]

3 hours ago, wozzlegummich said:

TAKE A CHILL PILL EVERYONE - They are not after expats with misely bank accounts. They are after fat cat Thai's & Expats that live in Thailand but try to avoid tax by keeping money offshore. Same as many western countries do.

Yes, they simply do not go after the filthy rich anywhere!!!

Edited September 10 by jwest10

[Will B Good]

9 minutes ago, CharlesHolzhauer said:

I personally doubt your strategy will work. You may wish to consider a slight modification to your plan.

1. Consider deposit 400k or 800k THB in a term-deposit account, allowing it to accrue interest. A term deposit typically offers higher interest rates compared to a regular savings account.

2. Remit money annually from your overseas account as a gift to your wife's account, with the intention of making this a tax-compliant gift. By legally gifting the money, you can make the argument that the funds belong to your wife, not yourself, which could help manage any tax liabilities.

3. An affidavit from you witnessed by your lawyer would serve as a legal document that declares the money you’re remitting is a gift to your wife. This document could be used as proof in case of any tax audits or legal inquiries. Specifying a purpose, like a marriage anniversary, birthday, purchase of a new car or land/house can add more clarity to the gift's intent.

4. Optional if you can afford it.  Follow the Personal Income Tax (PIT) guidelines and remit a minimal amount of money to your own bank account (THB 600K). If you are 65 and married you won't be liable for any taxes. This method may help avoid unnecessary scrutiny or tax liabilities enforcing that you monetary gift to your wife is genuine.

5. Since withdrawing large sums of cash via ATMs may attract attention from tax authorities or create complications, I would recommend to avoid this unless absolutely necessary, as it can be a gray area in terms of tax obligations.

 

 

Wow...that is brilliant.....thanks for your time and effort. A great help.

[TroubleandGrumpy]

36 minutes ago, CharlesHolzhauer said:

I personally doubt your strategy will work. You may wish to consider a slight modification to your plan.

1. Consider deposit 400k or 800k THB in a term-deposit account, allowing it to accrue interest. A term deposit typically offers higher interest rates compared to a regular savings account.

2. Remit money annually from your overseas account as a gift to your wife's account, with the intention of making this a tax-compliant gift. By legally gifting the money, you can make the argument that the funds belong to your wife, not yourself, which could help manage any tax liabilities.

3. An affidavit from you witnessed by your lawyer would serve as a legal document that declares the money you’re remitting is a gift to your wife. This document could be used as proof in case of any tax audits or legal inquiries. Specifying a purpose, like a marriage anniversary, birthday, purchase of a new car or land/house can add more clarity to the gift's intent.

4. Optional if you can afford it.  Follow the Personal Income Tax (PIT) guidelines and remit a minimal amount of money to your own bank account (THB 600K). If you are 65 and married you won't be liable for any taxes. This method may help avoid unnecessary scrutiny or tax liabilities enforcing that you monetary gift to your wife is genuine.

5. Since withdrawing large sums of cash via ATMs may attract attention from tax authorities or create complications, I would recommend to avoid this unless absolutely necessary, as it can be a gray area in terms of tax obligations.

Great advice - very similar to my plans - and I hope they work for every one who does it.

 

However, I would say definitely send money to yourself and spend it (aside from the Visa deposit) such that it totals under the allowances and exemptions that a couple would have in a joint tax return - therefore no tax return needed IMO.

 

My wife's part of my tax return calculations does not include the gift money - it is not declared if it is a valid gift.  To be valid the wife must not transfer money to me or give it to me, but IMO it is OK if she is pays for most things.  My Wife will be paying all the main stuff and I will be 'chipping in' by also sending to myself some and taking it out and spending it. We have bought a house in her name and that was a gift, we have bought a car in her name and that was a gift, when we buy another car in a year or two, that will be a gift. Any additional money giving as a gift is her money to spend as she wants. 

[VBF]

23 hours ago, sandyf said:

Why have you quoted me, I never  mentioned anything about income.

The first post implied the PA was more than the state pension, which is not true.

I quoted you to illustrate the fact that the Pension is regarded by HMRC as Income and is lumped together with all other income - you already know that (?) others do not.

At present, the PA IS more than the Full Pension  but not by much. The Pension will catch up very soon meaning that ALL pensioners will be caught in the tax net.

[CharlesHolzhauer]

42 minutes ago, Will B Good said:

 

 

Wow...that is brilliant.....thanks for your time and effort. A great help.

You're welcome. In addition to my suggestion, do not and I repeat do not remit the monetary gift to yourself. It is imperative you make the remittance from your overseas account to your wife's bank account in Thailand.

[Will B Good]

Just now, CharlesHolzhauer said:

You're welcome. In addition to my suggestion, do not and I repeat do not remit the monetary gift to yourself. It is imperative you make the remittance from your overseas account to your wife's bank account in Thailand.

 

 

Got it....thanks once again.

[motdaeng]

2 hours ago, Will B Good said:

 

 

So, on the off chance someone is kind enough to respond.....will this plan work re: avoiding tax?

 

1. Stick my 400k baht in the bank and forget about....leave it to just sit there.

2. Bring money over as gifts to my wife's bank account

 

and/or

 

3. Draw cash from the ATM.

 

Any good?

 

have a look at this ... it (gifting) will be not as easy as some of you think ... the same is for the ATM ...

 

https://aseannow.com/topic/1337075-reduce-taxation-by-gifting/

[LOG54]

Hello

I don't know how to post a link..

Interesting article by Thai examiner on 8th in which they say "very quickly" long term visas will be linked to tax declarations..

Have a good day

 

P.S. Here is the link:

https://www.thaiexaminer.com/thai-news-foreigners/2024/09/08/revenue-department-preparing-legislation-as-new-expat-tax-regime-may-link-visas-and-tax-returns/

Edited September 10 by Maestro
added postscript

[ukrules]

4 hours ago, wozzlegummich said:

TAKE A CHILL PILL EVERYONE - They are not after expats with misely bank accounts. They are after fat cat Thai's & Expats that live in Thailand but try to avoid tax by keeping money offshore. Same as many western countries do.

 

I think you seriously underestimate the number of people who aren't as broke as you who live in Thailand and only ever came here for one reason - the lax approach to international earnings and tax.

 

People aren't trying to avoid tax, they've been doing it for decades as it's always been fully allowed and within the legal framework.

 

[Jerry777]

On 9/8/2024 at 9:59 AM, bkk6060 said:

Yes, but you get access to many younger beautiful women. How much is that worth?

What country would that be in?

[NoDisplayName]

1 hour ago, JimGant said:

Bottom line: Your tax bill under this new worldwide Thai taxation scheme will be the same as if you never paid taxes to Thailand.

 

No.

 

If you are retired, living in Thailand off of savings and investments.......

 

If you as a single filer earn about $15K in dividends, plus $45K in capital gains, your US tax bill is $0.

 

But your Thai tax bill will be $10,000.

You have no US tax to claim foreign tax credit.

 

Oh, and don't forget to remove the capital loss deduction you used when calculating your US tax on capital gains, so the tax bill will likely be higher.

[OldBird]

So how will this affect Social Security recipients? I know nothing of taxes. I was one of those folks who paid an accountant every year to take care of everything for me before I retired. I have no income other than Social Security and a nest egg in my bank account in the states that I live my remaining days off.

Edited September 10 by OldBird

[gamb00ler]

1 hour ago, Ebumbu said:

 

Everything. I'm not entirely clear about your answer. Therefore, I need an accountant. I have one bookmarked. Any recommendations? I'd better hand this off. Thanks for advice, but taxes is clearly not my song suit. Best to know what I don't know. Let some accountant find all the loopholes. 

Prepare a list of questions you have regarding tax credits and post them.  Several regular posters in these tax threads understand them very well.

 

 

[chiang mai]

17 minutes ago, OldBird said:

So how will this affect Social Security recipients? I know nothing of taxes. I was one of those folks who paid an accountant every year to take care of everything for me before I retired. I have no income other than Social Security and a nest egg in my bank account in the states that I live my remaining days off.

US Social Security payments to non-Thai citizens in Thailand are tax exempt under terms of the DTA

[Yumthai]

49 minutes ago, TroubleandGrumpy said:

We have bought a house in her name and that was a gift, we have bought a car in her name and that was a gift, when we buy another car in a year or two, that will be a gift. Any additional money giving as a gift is her money to spend as she wants. 

When your wife hands you a couple (or more) of thousands of untraceable cash for your "daily expenses" it will be a gift too.

[gamb00ler]

26 minutes ago, OldBird said:

So how will this affect Social Security recipients? I know nothing of taxes. I was one of those folks who paid an accountant every year to take care of everything for me before I retired. I have no income other than Social Security and a nest egg in my bank account in the states that I live my remaining days off.

The entire balanceI of your nest egg as of Jan. 1 of 2024 will never be subjected to tax in Thailand.  Under the most recent regulations the investment income earned on your nest egg starting from Jan. 1 of 2024 will be considered assessable income if it is sent to Thailand.  However as a Thai resident significant amounts of your assessable income will not be taxed due to several exemptions made available by the Thai Revenue Dept (TRD). 

 

However, if your nest egg is in the form of 401k and/or IRA accounts withdrawals after Jan. 1 2024 may be assessable income in Thailand.

 

Thailand is not allowed to tax US Social Security benefits.

 

Bottom line is that you likely will not have to pay any tax in Thailand.

Edited September 10 by gamb00ler