Latest carmaker to scale back its EV ambitions amid slowing sales

[JBChiangRai]

3 minutes ago, vinny41 said:

Yes they buy them from auctions at rock bottom prices 

and some of them are listing them at prices higher that what you can get a brand new one for

recent article in the media

8 Chinese carmakers aim to propose EV3.0 terms adjustments, the cause of the “EV price war”

However, there is an idea to propose to the government to adjust the conditions for compensatory production, where companies participating in the EV 3.0 measure must produce 1.5 times the amount previously imported for sale, because the current market situation is in a severe slowdown. When production in Thailand began, it could not be sold and could not be exported anywhere, resulting in a lot of stock remaining, so prices had to be reduced to clear the products.

“Now that the market situation is bad, operators have no choice but to reduce prices because if they join the measure and do not produce, they will be fined, which is more than 500,000-600,000 baht per vehicle. Therefore, it is better to reduce prices rather than being fined. 

https://autolifethailand.tv/chinese-embassy-ev-price-war/

 

 

 

I already outlined the risk of fines and explained why it might soon be a great time to buy a Chinese EV.

 

As for tents buying EV's from auctions, that's actually rarely what happens.  They usually buy them from main dealers when the car given in part-ex doesn't match the main dealer's criteria for resale, e.g. a Ford dealer gets a Toyota in part-ex etc.

 

You failed to mention that ICE vendors have suffered much more of a percentage reduction as the share of new EV's sold each month is increasing and the corresponding ICE share is decreasing.

[vinny41]

20 minutes ago, JBChiangRai said:

 

I already outlined the risk of fines and explained why it might soon be a great time to buy a Chinese EV.

 

As for tents buying EV's from auctions, that's actually rarely what happens.  They usually buy them from main dealers when the car given in part-ex doesn't match the main dealer's criteria for resale, e.g. a Ford dealer gets a Toyota in part-ex etc.

 

You failed to mention that ICE vendors have suffered much more of a percentage reduction as the share of new EV's sold each month is increasing and the corresponding ICE share is decreasing.

No need to mention ICE vehicles as the topic is EV

The only EV brand that does sell used EV's is GWM Certified Pre-Owned

It would appear that the EV brands in Thailand are more concerned about lack of EV sales numbers in Thailand than % share

they are also hampered that EV's built in Thailand can't be exported due to low domestic content 20% Most FTA require at least 40% or higher local content

https://www.prachachat.net/economy/news-1646266

[vinny41]

Chinese EV manufacturers are facing trade protection measures from European countries, who have erected a tariff wall as high as 38% for imports from China, and Thai automakers should take advantage of the situation, SAIC Motor-CP executive vice president Suroj Sangsnit said on Friday.

He said the high tariff wall, as well as the requirement to reveal all technology used in the products in import documents, have forced Chinese automakers to establish manufacturing bases overseas instead.

Thailand can use this chance to become a manufacturing base for Chinese EVs to export to Europe, he said, adding that to circumvent the EU trade protection measures, Chinese EVs manufactured in Thailand must contain over 40% locally made parts, so they can be considered as “originated from Thailand”.

“Thailand never exports automobiles to Europe, as there has been no trade agreement between the two regions,” he said. “It is estimated that Thailand will face import duties of 10-20% if it starts exporting EVs to Europe.”

https://www.nationthailand.com/business/automobile/40040855

The 40% local content is only one of the EU requirments

others are has there been forced or slave labour used in the manufacture or any parts

have any subsidy been applied as part of the vehicle  manufacture or any parts

Starting from 18th February 2025 as part of the Battery Regulation

 Provide a carbon footprint declaration which  must be verified by a third party notified body

https://www.eura-ag.com/en/blog/eu-battery-regulation-guide-to-calculating-the-co2-footprint

not straight forward exporting cars to Europe

[ignis]

If you can't beat them: Toyota to use BYD's plug-in hybrid ...

[Rimmer]

A couple of off topic troll posts have been removed, topic is not about solar panels or renovating showers in your house:

 

10. You will not post troll messages. Trolling is the act of purposefully antagonizing forum members by posting controversial, inflammatory, irrelevant or off-topic messages with the primary intent of provoking other members into an emotional response or to generally disrupt normal on-topic discussion.

 

@ExpatOilWorker

 

[JBChiangRai]

2 hours ago, vinny41 said:

 

they are also hampered that EV's built in Thailand can't be exported due to low domestic content 20% Most FTA require at least 40% or higher local content

https://www.prachachat.net/economy/news-1646266

 

 

Do you have a link for that?  

[vinny41]

6 minutes ago, JBChiangRai said:

 

 

Do you have a link for that?  

Possibility of acquiring the highly anticipated title of "Thailand origin"

For Chinese EV companies to extend their exports beyond the Thai domestic market, leveraging FTAs is crucial, which necessitates meeting a "40% local content" requirement. This is likely to depend on the degree of localisation of battery production, which is estimated to account for one-third of a vehicle's price, and the extent to which Thailand's industrial clusters are utilised. However, in the early stages of production, most of the parts will be imported from China, and it will be difficult to meet these requirements.

If the "40% local content" requirement cannot be met, the majority of BEVs produced in Thailand will remain in the domestic market. If there is an oversupply, the entire market will be affected if discount sales become rampant, similar to what happened in China.

If a Chinese car meets the 40% local content requirement and is certified as originating from Thailand, it will be exported within and outside the ASEAN region through the ASEAN FTA network. This will lead to direct competition between automobile companies in destination countries and Chinese cars originating in Thailand. In any case, the Asian automotive industry is undergoing a major transition.

https://www.thinkchina.sg/economy/made-thailand-chinese-evs-could-fill-auto-market

[JBChiangRai]

3 hours ago, vinny41 said:

they are also hampered that EV's built in Thailand can't be exported due to low domestic content 20% Most FTA require at least 40% or higher local content

https://www.prachachat.net/economy/news-1646266

 

I meant a link that supports your claim that they are only 20% domestic content?

[vinny41]

7 minutes ago, JBChiangRai said:

 

I meant a link that supports your claim that they are only 20% domestic content?

Its not my claim its stated here in this article from

"Surot Saengsanit", the new president of the Thai Electric Vehicle Association

 including calling on the government to take measures to promote EV investment plans in Thailand for export.

For example, it is stipulated that new investors who will invest in Thailand must come in the form of joint investment, with Thai companies and Thai supply chains as joint investors of no less than 30% according to the law, including the requirement to use domestic parts as much as possible, because currently only 20% is used

https://www.prachachat.net/economy/news-1646266

[JBChiangRai]

11 minutes ago, vinny41 said:

Its not my claim its stated here in this article from

"Surot Saengsanit", the new president of the Thai Electric Vehicle Association

 including calling on the government to take measures to promote EV investment plans in Thailand for export.

For example, it is stipulated that new investors who will invest in Thailand must come in the form of joint investment, with Thai companies and Thai supply chains as joint investors of no less than 30% according to the law, including the requirement to use domestic parts as much as possible, because currently only 20% is used

https://www.prachachat.net/economy/news-1646266

 

You have a very creative translator.

 

It says...

For example, it requires new investors to invest in Thailand. It must come in the form of a joint venture with Thai companies and Thai supply chains as a joint venture of at least 30% according to the law, including requiring the use of domestic parts as much as possible. If it can be done, it will not only be a long-term solution, but also help solve the problem of price competition 

 

My translator says nothing of the sort you claim.

 

 

Edited September 10 by JBChiangRai
or maybe my translator is the creative one

[vinny41]

18 minutes ago, JBChiangRai said:

 

You have a very creative translator.

 

It says...

For example, it requires new investors to invest in Thailand. It must come in the form of a joint venture with Thai companies and Thai supply chains as a joint venture of at least 30% according to the law, including requiring the use of domestic parts as much as possible. If it can be done, it will not only be a long-term solution, but also help solve the problem of price competition 

 

My translator says nothing of the sort you claim.

 

 

Then the problem is with your translator here is the section without translation as you can see both 30% and 20% are stated now if the EV built in Thailand did have 40% local content why aren't the brands exporting them through the existing ASEAN FTA

เช่น กำหนดให้นักลงทุนรายใหม่ที่จะเข้ามาลงทุนในไทย จะต้องมาในรูปแบบของการร่วมลงทุน โดยมีบริษัทไทย ซัพพลายเชนไทยเป็นผู้ร่วมทุนไม่ต่ำกว่า 30% ตามกฎหมาย รวมถึงการกำหนดให้ใช้ชิ้นส่วนภายในประเทศให้ได้สูงที่สุด เพราะขณะนี้มีสัดส่วนใช้เพียง 20% เท่านั่น ซึ่งหากทำได้จะไม่ใช่เพียงการตอบโจทย์ในระยะยาว แต่ยังจะช่วยแก้ปัญหาการแข่งขันด้านราคาที่มีค่ายรถบางดัมป์ราคาอยู่ในขณะนี้... อ่านข่าวต้นฉบับได้ที่ : https://www.prachachat.net/economy/news-1646266

[JBChiangRai]

57 minutes ago, vinny41 said:

Then the problem is with your translator here is the section without translation as you can see both 30% and 20% are stated now if the EV built in Thailand did have 40% local content why aren't the brands exporting them through the existing ASEAN FTA

เช่น กำหนดให้นักลงทุนรายใหม่ที่จะเข้ามาลงทุนในไทย จะต้องมาในรูปแบบของการร่วมลงทุน โดยมีบริษัทไทย ซัพพลายเชนไทยเป็นผู้ร่วมทุนไม่ต่ำกว่า 30% ตามกฎหมาย รวมถึงการกำหนดให้ใช้ชิ้นส่วนภายในประเทศให้ได้สูงที่สุด เพราะขณะนี้มีสัดส่วนใช้เพียง 20% เท่านั่น ซึ่งหากทำได้จะไม่ใช่เพียงการตอบโจทย์ในระยะยาว แต่ยังจะช่วยแก้ปัญหาการแข่งขันด้านราคาที่มีค่ายรถบางดัมป์ราคาอยู่ในขณะนี้... อ่านข่าวต้นฉบับได้ที่ : https://www.prachachat.net/economy/news-1646266

 

Yes I see that, thank you.

[JonnyF]

8 hours ago, JBChiangRai said:

Manufacturers may be fined if they don't hit their targets of locally produced vehicles sold, the fines are huge, you may see discounts of up to 30%, possibly much more.

 

That will do wonders for the second hand value of EV's of the people who already bought them. 😃

 

You'll have to knock off 30% of your second hand car just to match the price of a brand new one. 

[CallumWK]

8 hours ago, JBChiangRai said:

legacy automakers couldn't make a competitive car at the cost BYD were selling their Seal retail.

 

Neither can BYD

[JBChiangRai]

15 minutes ago, CallumWK said:

 

Neither can BYD

 

Nonsense, you're making a habit of this.

[Cameroni]

On 9/9/2024 at 10:43 AM, josephbloggs said:

Yep. Just in my soi in my moo ban there are three Attos, one Ora 07 (ugh), two Seals, and a Dolphin.

The EV bashers see the article as EVs failing. Those who aren't rabidly anti-Chinese can se that it is only a slump in Toyota's overpriced rubbish (and other Japanese marques). Years and years behind the Chinese and they simply can't compete.

They were so arrogant they ignored EVs until it was too late and their backup plan was to spend hundreds of millions on anti-EV propaganda.

Lol, you EV Fan boys do make me laugh, you really think Toyota's development of new hydrogen technology is just "anti-EV" propaganda, when in reality Toyota began developing hydrogen cars in 1992, long before EVs were a thing.

 

Toyota makes excellent and fairly priced cars that are on the whole far superior to most of the underpriced Chinese fire hazards sold as EV cars, that have mostly poor range and take forever to charge.

 

Sadly it's true that in Thailand, where 80% of people have Chinese heritage and are thus equally obsessesd with paying as little as possible, you keep seeing more and more of these EV drivers on the road. They're an absolute menace, speeding  insane due to the instant torque of these EVs. I predict Thailand's accident figures will increase because of EVs, they are mostly driven by people who can't drive. EV drivers are worse than pick up drivers now.

Edited September 10 by Cameroni

[Ralf001]

20 minutes ago, CallumWK said:

 

Neither can BYD

BYD make 1200 USD profit per vehicle sold.

[3NUMBAS]

VW is talking about closing factorys as the cant keep on building expensive ecars they cant sell and also have to faze out ice

[CallumWK]

8 minutes ago, JBChiangRai said:

 

Nonsense, you're making a habit of this.

 

4 minutes ago, Ralf001 said:

BYD make 1200 USD profit per vehicle sold.

 

Also if you take away the 3.7 billion USD subsidizing?

 

https://electrek.co/2024/04/12/china-gave-byd-an-incredible-3-7-billion-to-win-the-ev-race/

China gave BYD $3.7 billion to ‘win’ the EV race

 

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2024-04-10/byd-got-3-4-billion-chinese-aid-to-dominate-evs-study-says

[josephbloggs]

48 minutes ago, Cameroni said:

Toyota makes excellent and fairly priced cars that are on the whole far superior to most of the underpriced Chinese fire hazards sold as EV cars, that have mostly poor range and take forever to charge.

Your ignorance is astounding. Why post in threads on a subject you have an illogical hatred of and clearly know nothing about? I don't get it. You couldn't make yourself look more stupid if you tried.

 

Quote

they are mostly driven by people who can't drive. EV drivers are worse than pick up drivers now.

More rubbish. To me EVs seem to be very sensibly driven, at least here in Bangkok. Never been tailgated by one, never seen one acting like a dick and "rolling coal" either.

[Cameroni]

4 minutes ago, josephbloggs said:

Your ignorance is astounding. Why post in threads on a subject you have an illogical hatred of and clearly know nothing about? I don't get it. You couldn't make yourself look more stupid if you tried.

 

More rubbish. To me EVs seem to be very sensibly driven, at least here in Bangkok. Never been tailgated by one, never seen one acting like a dick and "rolling coal" either.

 

EVs are driven like race cars here, disregarding all rules of traffic, because EVs car have instant acceleration the drivers think they're in an intergalactic star battle.

 

Worse driving than that by EV drivers I have not seen. Even Pick up drivers pale by comparison.

[josephbloggs]

1 minute ago, Cameroni said:

 

EVs are driven like race cars here, disregarding all rules of traffic, because EVs car have instant acceleration the drivers think they're in an intergalactic star battle.

 

Worse driving than that by EV drivers I have not seen. Even Pick up drivers pale by comparison.

You must live in a parrallel universe. I don't see that (and I'm not an EV driver).

Nothing is worse than pick up driver, mini vans and - the worst of all - Fortuner drivers.

[Cameroni]

Just now, josephbloggs said:

You must live in a parrallel universe. I don't see that (and I'm not an EV driver).

Nothing is worse than pick up driver, mini vans and - the worst of all - Fortuner drivers.

 

I'm telling  you these EV drivers are worse, just yesterday I had one of these EV Villeneuve wannabees tailgating, cutting through traffic like he was on the Nuerburgring.

 

The accelaration in EV cars is beyond their capability to harness. The less of these cars we have on the roads the better it will be.

[ExpatOilWorker]

2 hours ago, JBChiangRai said:

 

Yes I see that, thank you.

What kind of translation are you using?

Apple?

I use Google and get the exact same as Vinny.

Have you changed your Wumao settings to international?

[ExpatOilWorker]

1 hour ago, josephbloggs said:

Your ignorance is astounding. Why post in threads on a subject you have an illogical hatred of and clearly know nothing about? I don't get it. You couldn't make yourself look more stupid if you tried.

 

More rubbish. To me EVs seem to be very sensibly driven, at least here in Bangkok. Never been tailgated by one, never seen one acting like a dick and "rolling coal" either.

Pick-up vs. EV, tough call.

The Neta was fast enough to get in the way of the Hilux.

 

[JBChiangRai]

1 hour ago, ExpatOilWorker said:

What kind of translation are you using?

Apple?

I use Google and get the exact same as Vinny.

Have you changed your Wumao settings to international?

I’m not sure, it’s an extension for Win10

[Ralf001]

2 hours ago, CallumWK said:

 

 

Also if you take away the 3.7 billion USD subsidizing?

 

BYD still make1200 USD profit per vehicle sold.

[CG1 Blue]

13 hours ago, soalbundy said:

I don't think EV's are the way forward, if every driver had one the grid couldn't handle it.

And what does the grid need for most of that power? Fossil fuels. 

Biggest scam since Madoff

[josephbloggs]

5 hours ago, Cameroni said:

 

I'm telling  you these EV drivers are worse, just yesterday I had one of these EV Villeneuve wannabees tailgating, cutting through traffic like he was on the Nuerburgring.

 

The accelaration in EV cars is beyond their capability to harness. The less of these cars we have on the roads the better it will be.

Don't you guys bleat on about range anxiety all the time? Full throttle acceleration all the time would deplete your charge quite rapidly, no? So do they have range anxiety or are they all tearing around like lunatics? You can't have it both ways.

If they are tearing around like lunatics (in your world) then I guess range anxiety isn't an issue.

Edited September 10 by josephbloggs

[Woke to Sounds of Horking]

Klous Schwabs, the W-E-F, and communist govts have no intention to allow the expansion of the range of EVs. You will keep to your 15 minute cities and 300 km range because the world is melting. Also they can flip a switch and your car shuts down like The Robocop. With ICE cars no such external controls exist and that is why coal is bad, petrol is bad and you will be shamed for driving an ICE.

Edited September 10 by Woke to Sounds of Horking