Don’t kill the golden goose! Tax reforms may drive away expats

[Danderman123]

3 hours ago, Rob Browder said:

 

 

As to those required to pay tax, proof of submitting your Thai return should be sufficient for Immigration purposes - if/when Immigration require such. 

 

There are a handful of visa holders who are required to show Immigration their tax return, because they are working in Thailand.

 

No one else is required to show Immigration a Thai tax return.

[Danderman123]

7 hours ago, Gottfrid said:

Ok, are you 100% sure about that?

I am 100% sure that Thai tax law does not offset Capital losses against gains.

 

But don't rely on tax advice here - consult a tax attorney for your tax planning. My tax planning is "stay out of Thailand for 6+ months".

[motdaeng]

22 minutes ago, Danderman123 said:

There are a handful of visa holders who are required to show Immigration their tax return, because they are working in Thailand.

 

No one else is required to show Immigration a Thai tax return.

 

not yet, but it indicates the possibility what could happen in the future ...

[Presnock]

9 hours ago, NativeBob said:

that was trading funny coins like DOGE etc. but you can always buy USDT on Binance and cash it P2P in Thailand. I do, my friends do. 10 minutes.

Like I previously told someone else, I am just old and too ignorant to get into any kind of trading be it the stock markets or cryptocoins.  I have really basic finances - a pension only - and can do my taxes usually within a few minutes each year.  Less stressful for this old guy.

[Badrabbit]

7 hours ago, Rob Browder said:

Isn't your UK pension protected by the double-tax treaty?   I know the USA Social-Security is by our treaty, and thought I read a Brit say they had the same.   

 

The only people this would affect are those with significant income beyond retirement payments, or without a good dual-tax treaty - but, sadly for Thailand, that includes those who spend the most here. 

 

Now, at least 1/2 of their spending-money will be spent elsewhere - and many will leave permanently to where they are not taxed.  And for what - to pay for the "digital wallet" CCP-money spy-and-control scheme's Billions is debt-spending?

 

But, just look at Immigration at Bangkok Airports - refusing entry to repeat-customers who spend their money here - even falsifying the reason for denying entry to do it - all to get them to pay through their agent-partners. 

 

And it isn't just us foreigners.  Ask any Thai what happens when they have to deal with a govt-agency - some form of extortion is highly-likely.  All the little sub-fiefdoms here are so caught up in their own little greedy schemes - none give a dang about Thai people or the good of the country. 

Thais deserve better than this.  We at least have multiple other options - but they don't.

Yes I believe the UK has the double tax treaty so hopefully I have nothing to worry about but I still worry.

[chiang mai]

2 hours ago, Danderman123 said:

There are a handful of visa holders who are required to show Immigration their tax return, because they are working in Thailand.

 

No one else is required to show Immigration a Thai tax return.

The 2019 UN Migration report said their were 162,000 foreign  skilled and professionals working in Thailand, that's not a handful! Each would need to obtain a Tax Clearance Certificate from TRD, before leaving the country.

 

https://thailand.un.org/sites/default/files/2020-06/Thailand-Migration-Report-2019.pdf

[Raindancer]

1 hour ago, Badrabbit said:

Yes I believe the UK has the double tax treaty so hopefully I have nothing to worry about but I still worry.

I wouldn't worry too unnecessarily. 

 

If you are married over 65, you will have allowances of 560k, which includes the first 150k, ( non taxable).

 

As the max UK state pension is currently £220 per week (£11660) per annum, equates to 513k thai baht @ 44 baht to the £, you will be OK.

 

Even £ 11660 (@ 46 baht = 536k pa to the pound) is still under the 560k per annum allowances. 

[lordgrinz]

1 hour ago, Presnock said:

Like I previously told someone else, I am just old and too ignorant to get into any kind of trading be it the stock markets or cryptocoins.  I have really basic finances - a pension only - and can do my taxes usually within a few minutes each year.  Less stressful for this old guy.

 

Cryptocoins are like playing the lottery, it's just not worth it for most of us.

[Celsius]

4 hours ago, Banana7 said:

like Canada, they are asking for certification of tax status. Canada has just started rolling out the process for everyone that has investment or bank accounts

 

This looks like a non resident account letter that they send every year to account holders who live outside canada. I got the same letter from RBC. They are not sending these to normal  resident accounts.

[spidermike007]

19 hours ago, TroubleandGrumpy said:

I agree that it would be very difficult and far too much work.

But - it can be done if they really want to do it - I think it would go something like this.

 

All remittances into Thai Banks will be reported to TRD - probably by BOT - maybe by each bank too.

That information can be sorted based on Passport/ID number.

That information can then be collated and checked to give total amounts remitted for each person.

That information can then be checked against tax returns - Yes or No.

They can then get the information about each person with a 'No' who totalled over X Baht per year in remittances.

For Thais they check with (Dept?) against the ID number for details.

For Expats they check with Immigration against the Passport numbers.

Then they could send letter asking 'why no tax return'.

 

But will they go through all that work? Do they have the resources and expertise? Who knows.

No they do not have the resources, and no they do not have the organizational power, so that will not be done. 

[Badrabbit]

39 minutes ago, Raindancer said:

I wouldn't worry too unnecessarily. 

 

If you are married over 65, you will have allowances of 560k, which includes the first 150k, ( non taxable).

 

As the max UK state pension is currently £220 per week (£11660) per annum, equates to 513k thai baht @ 44 baht to the £, you will be OK.

 

Even £ 11660 (@ 46 baht = 536k pa to the pound) is still under the 560k per annum allowances. 

I'm over 65 but not married, my State Pension is approx 8000 GBP 

[newnative]

9 hours ago, Unamerican said:

Are you sure: with what regimes are you comparing the rates?  

I believe that in the good ol’ US of A you do not pay an6 tax on your first 60,000usd per annum of income!! 

     Wish that were true regarding the good 'ol US of A.  No tax expert but I do know I have been paying federal tax for the last 50 years on income that has never reached $60,000.   My 2023 tax owed was around $1500.

[anrcaccount]

1 hour ago, chiang mai said:

The 2019 UN Migration report said their were 162,000 foreign  skilled and professionals working in Thailand, that's not a handful! Each would need to obtain a Tax Clearance Certificate from TRD, before leaving the country.

 

https://thailand.un.org/sites/default/files/2020-06/Thailand-Migration-Report-2019.pdf

 

Correct me if I'm wrong, but Non B Visa holders with work permits are not required to show Tax Clearance Certificates to Immigration when departing Thailand.

 

They are required to show Tax return on application for extensions. 

 

Tax Clearance certificates are not operational in Thailand anymore. 

 

[Raindancer]

19 minutes ago, Badrabbit said:

I'm over 65 but not married, my State Pension is approx 8000 GBP 

Then your allowances would be.

 

Over 65>                             190k

Personal Allowance            60k

First 150k tax free allowance.

Up to          100k allowance offset against pension income 

 

Total allowance: 500k

 

So at £8000 per annum @ 44 baht to the £ = 352k

 

So, you are still under your total allowances.

 

Hope that reassures you.🙏🏻

[Badrabbit]

13 minutes ago, Raindancer said:

Then your allowances would be.

 

Over 65>                             190k

Personal Allowance            60k

First 150k tax free allowance.

Up to          100k allowance offset against pension income 

 

Total allowance: 500k

 

So at £8000 per annum @ 44 baht to the £ = 352k

 

So, you are still under your total allowances.

 

Hope that reassures you.🙏🏻

Thanks mate, sorry I don't understand that at all, thanks for taking the time and effort to explain.

[whiteman]

I'm over 65 but not married, my State Pension is approx 8000 GBP 

Then your allowances would be.

 

Over 65>                             190k

Personal Allowance            60k

First 150k tax free allowance.

Up to          100k allowance offset against pension income 

 

Total allowance: 500k

 

So at £8000 per annum @ 44 baht to the £ = 352k

 

So, you are still under your total all

 

Yet the pension allowance is 800k per year which currently the Thai government thinks is what you need to live here so tax will have to be paid on that 800 - 500 balance 300K TAXABLE

[Raindancer]

6 minutes ago, Badrabbit said:

Thanks mate, sorry I don't understand that at all, thanks for taking the time and effort to explain.

No problem:

Basically as an unmarried 65 year old, you have Thai income tax allowances of 500000 Thai baht per year,BEFORE you pay  or are liable for any income tax here in Thailand.

 

  Your £8000 UK pension equates to 352000 thai baht income per year.

 

Therefore you have no Thai income tax liability to pay.

 

Hope that explains it for you.

[whiteman]

So I expect the Thailand gov will increase the amount you will need from 800k per year upwards to take in to case their TAX grab

[Raindancer]

3 minutes ago, whiteman said:

I'm over 65 but not married, my State Pension is approx 8000 GBP 

Then your allowances would be.

 

Over 65>                             190k

Personal Allowance            60k

First 150k tax free allowance.

Up to          100k allowance offset against pension income 

 

Total allowance: 500k

 

So at £8000 per annum @ 44 baht to the £ = 352k

 

So, you are still under your total all

 

Yet the pension allowance is 800k per year which currently the Thai government thinks is what you need to live here so tax will have to be paid on that 800 - 500 balance 300K TAXABLE

Post deleted by user

[chiang mai]

54 minutes ago, anrcaccount said:

 

Correct me if I'm wrong, but Non B Visa holders with work permits are not required to show Tax Clearance Certificates to Immigration when departing Thailand.

 

They are required to show Tax return on application for extensions. 

 

Tax Clearance certificates are not operational in Thailand anymore. 

 

 

If you think that's wrong, provide proof from the TRD that it is.

 

Section 4 of the TRD Code applies:

 

https://www.rd.go.th/english/37695.html

[whiteman]

it has if you are a new retiree and have to bring money in to get your visa

[Expat68]

Just now, whiteman said:

it has if you are a new retiree and have to bring money in to get your visa

But not 15 years ago!! Do not panic people 

[Raindancer]

Just now, whiteman said:

it has if you are a new retiree and have to bring money in to get your visa

Why raise this against there reply I gave the OP regarding his question.   Nothing to do with my answer.

[whiteman]

Absolute rubbish.  If you are referring to the 800k in the  bank for extension renewal, that has nothing to do with the allowances and the OPs pension income.

 

I used the 800k as an example so what happens with the 65k per month coming in then that will have to be increase and taxed hence why they will increase the amount u need to stay here

[Raindancer]

Just now, Expat68 said:

But not 15 years ago!! Do not panic people 

Thank you

[Raindancer]

Just now, whiteman said:

Absolute rubbish.  If you are referring to the 800k in the  bank for extension renewal, that has nothing to do with the allowances and the OPs pension income.

 

I used the 800k as an example so what happens with the 65k per month coming in then that will have to be increase and taxed hence why they will increase the amount u need to stay here

Simple....don't use the 65k method.

 

If you bring in 800k, show it as savings, which are exempt.

[whiteman]

you go and tell all the people to change then from 65k

[whiteman]

many can not

[Sir Dude]

5 hours ago, Danderman123 said:

There are a handful of visa holders who are required to show Immigration their tax return, because they are working in Thailand.

 

No one else is required to show Immigration a Thai tax return.

 

People that are on work permits have to submit a tax return before they go to the Ministry of Labour to renew their work permits, as the MoL will not issue a WP extention without the previous year's tax return being filed, and you also give them (the MoL) your tax readout from your employer.

Therefore, people that get a renewed WP that has been issued by the MoL merely have to produce the blue WP book, with the extension approved, to immigration. You can't get the WP without having filed a tax return the MoL is happy with (as they check)... don't have to give immigration anything regarding tax, at least not in the major city immigration center I deal with.

[Raindancer]

Just now, whiteman said:

you go and tell all the people to change then from 65k

Jeepers.   Don't hijack my answer to someone who asked a question regarding his pension income.

 

Have a nice day