The annoyance of the ++ prices

[Middle Aged Grouch]

As a foreigner, you will generally always be ripped off and charged more in all restaurants in Thailand. No matter if you are accompanied or not with a Thai lady or boy.

[donmuang37]

On 9/20/2024 at 2:52 PM, Dirk Z said:

In most European countries prices for goods must be shown as what they actually are. No surprises when the bill arrives. In many Thai establishments, in Bangkok even the vast majority, there are prices on menus that change according to the small print at the bottom: "10% service charge and 7% VAT will be added."

Since this is a fixed increase it is hard to understand why the prices cannot already be shown as the final amount needed to pay, instead of everyone having tho make the the calculation themselves or getting an unpleasant surprise when the bill comes up.

Although the prices seem lower, there is unpleasantness in the end, so I don't see the upside of this way of presenting a menu. Or can anyone enlighten me?

News Flash for Dirk. This isn't Europe!  (Thank goodness!!)

Here, they do it the Thai way.

[Zack61]

In Australia all prices are inclusive of tax. The consumer knows what they are going to pay each and every time. This makes for a much better experience with no nasty or unexpected add-ons. 
As someone stated earlier, stay away from those that deal from the bottom of the deck and aren’t completely up front with their pricing. The power is with you. 

[BigStar]

1 hour ago, Middle Aged Grouch said:

As a foreigner, you will generally always be ripped off and charged more in all restaurants in Thailand. No matter if you are accompanied or not with a Thai lady or boy.

 

Utter nonsense.

[Celsius]

If you go to a restaurant in Canada the final price will literally be 50% more than on the menu

[BigStar]

  

31 minutes ago, Zack61 said:

This makes for a much better experience with no nasty or unexpected add-ons. 

 

The service charge and VAT aren't nasty. Australia should use more VAT and less income tax. They aren't unexpected, as the percentages are listed up front at the bottom of the menu. One trip to a Thai restaurant teaches you look there if you never have and are interested.

 

Moreover, our mathematically illiterate, seemingly quite a few here, don't need to suffer the onerous, time-consuming burden of trying to calculate a tip themselves, unless they'd hoped to lay down the usual generous 10 baht.

 

The practice in no way detracts from the "experience," unless you just want an excuse to whinge. 

 

40 minutes ago, Zack61 said:

As someone stated earlier, stay away from those that deal from the bottom of the deck and aren’t completely up front with their pricing.

 

And so miss out on this delicious steak for your street food?

 

 

The answer to that is

 

 

[Scott Tracy]

6 hours ago, Irish star said:

$2.50 an hour and you want them to discuss lol

So why do people work for these wages? No guarantee of tips to make the wage a living wage?

 

This makes them their own worst enemy. But I guess anything else is socialism/communism....

[Scott Tracy]

6 hours ago, Irish star said:

It’s been a century, you want to change it overnight 

Ireland changed from the Punt to the Euro over night, Sweden changed the side of the road cars drive, overnight... Some governments change overnight.... So why not?

[JimTripper]

On 9/20/2024 at 3:35 PM, scubascuba3 said:

I guess they are being sneaky by showing the lower prices, yes they could easily add the VAT and tip, just avoid those places if you don't like it

Like the Big C food court?

[soi3eddie]

14 hours ago, jippytum said:

Many esablisments do not pass the gratuities to the staff. 

 

So here lies part of the issue. Is "service charge" a gratuity (TIP) and passed to the staff? I suspect NOT in Thailand. I hate the ++ but have to accept it depending on the establishment - suggest others do too.

 

In the UK, VAT @20% is always included. Many places in UK will add a "discrentionary service charge" of typically 12.5%. This can legitimately be deducted with no issue (in my experience). I then will give the server/s a CASH Tip of greater amount if warranted.

 

 

[GammaGlobulin]

On 9/20/2024 at 2:52 PM, Dirk Z said:

In most European countries prices for goods must be shown as what they actually are. No surprises when the bill arrives. In many Thai establishments, in Bangkok even the vast majority, there are prices on menus that change according to the small print at the bottom: "10% service charge and 7% VAT will be added."

Since this is a fixed increase it is hard to understand why the prices cannot already be shown as the final amount needed to pay, instead of everyone having tho make the the calculation themselves or getting an unpleasant surprise when the bill comes up.

Although the prices seem lower, there is unpleasantness in the end, so I don't see the upside of this way of presenting a menu. Or can anyone enlighten me?

 

Why not just do what I do:

 

Eat at the uni cafeteria.

 

Most dishes are Bt.25 per dish.

 

No tax.

 

No hidden costs.

 

And, very good food.

 

Plus...

You can look at the girls, or they might look at you.

 

Also, a very relaxed atmosphere with super friendly people all about you.

 

There is no better dining bargain than this, ... IMHO....

 

Give it a try.

 

Not sure about the girls at Chula, though....

 

 

[HighPriority]

On 9/21/2024 at 3:52 AM, still kicking said:

Agree I live in OZ we have similar system try eating out in OZ one cafe charged $AUD 9 for a small bag of chips(French Fries)

The price of chips in Australia isn’t relevant, the fact that the price on the board is what you pay is.

There is an establishing trend in Oz to surcharge on public holidays and for eftpos fees however.

[LukKrueng]

On 9/20/2024 at 3:35 PM, scubascuba3 said:

I guess they are being sneaky by showing the lower prices, yes they could easily add the VAT and tip, just avoid those places if you don't like it

I would guess the separation is for taxation reasons. The 10% service fee is supposed to go to the employees so probably not taxed as part of the business income

[scubascuba3]

6 minutes ago, LukKrueng said:

I would guess the separation is for taxation reasons. The 10% service fee is supposed to go to the employees so probably not taxed as part of the business income

shouldn't be difficult for software to separate, that's just an excuse businesses might use 

[LukKrueng]

31 minutes ago, scubascuba3 said:

shouldn't be difficult for software to separate, that's just an excuse businesses might use 

Not really. Might be regulations. In the travel industry in Thailand there is a separation between airline tickets and ground services (hotel, tours) and not allowed (or at least wasn't allowed in the past) to issue 1 invoice for both tours and tickets due to the different was VAT is calculated. 

[Lemsta69]

16 hours ago, NoshowJones said:

If I am not a regular customer in a restaurant and there is the small print of 17% added to the price that I am not supposed to notice, I just pay the price before the 17% extra, and just say, "Oh I never noticed the small print that I am not supposed to notice".

 

It's actually higher than 17% because service charge is added to the base price and then VAT is added on top of the sub-total. 

 

The equation is x * 1.10 * 1.07 = x * 1.177.

 

So it's closer to 18% than 17%. Took me a while to figure that out after I first got here and the numbers on the bill didn't add up. 

[Lemsta69]

15 hours ago, donmuang37 said:

News Flash for Dirk. This isn't Europe!  (Thank goodness!!)

Here, they do it the Thai way.

 

The Thai way is to show the total price. "Plus plus" of 17.7% is a foreign concept. I don't know the history but I presume it came from the hotel industry. 

[bradiston]

Here's what an airline adds to its basic fare of 2,646 THB to boot it up to 6,887.

Edited 45 minutes ago by bradiston

[Lemsta69]

On 9/20/2024 at 2:52 PM, Dirk Z said:

In most European countries prices for goods must be shown as what they actually are. No surprises when the bill arrives. In many Thai establishments, in Bangkok even the vast majority, there are prices on menus that change according to the small print at the bottom: "10% service charge and 7% VAT will be added."

Since this is a fixed increase it is hard to understand why the prices cannot already be shown as the final amount needed to pay, instead of everyone having tho make the the calculation themselves or getting an unpleasant surprise when the bill comes up.

Although the prices seem lower, there is unpleasantness in the end, so I don't see the upside of this way of presenting a menu. Or can anyone enlighten me?

 

I first saw this in Indonesia on my first trip to Indonesia in the late 1990s. It was when we went to a "fancy" hotel in Surabaya for a bacon and egg breakfast instead of a local restaurant. That was ++.

 

Then we went to Singapore and it was +++ FFS! Again, it was in more "fancy" places. Hawker centres etc didn't do that nonsense at that time. 

 

When I first came to Thailand in 1997 I went to places like Koh Samui, the "Koh San Road" and Pattaya and I rarely saw the ++ nonsense. That was both at local restaurants and foreign restaurants. I ate mostly at "budget" places and just assumed that the practice was exclusive to "higher end" places that I couldn't afford 😂

 

I don't know where the practice originated in SEA but I've always gotten the impression that it came from the American hotel industry. I've no evidence to back that up, it's just a gut feeling.

 

Now that I have more funds than in my backpacking days I don't have to stick to "budget" restaurants. I've noticed that the ++ in Bangkok isn't limited to the fancy hotel chains, it has spread to lots of other places as you've noted. 

 

I wouldn't say that the vast majority of restaurants do this because Bangkok is a huge place and they don't do it in "normal" Thai restaurants. However it is quite common in places like Sukhumvit and Silom. 

 

I too despise the practice however there's sweet FA that I can do about it so you just have to suck it up and either pay the extra 17.7% or stick to restaurants that don't try to trick their customers.

 

 

Edited 10 minutes ago by Lemsta69