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Thai gov. to tax (remitted) income from abroad for tax residents starting 2024 - Part II


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TRD to Foreigner: Sorry to trouble you but we see from looking at our banks and merchants data that you've been making frequent credit card payment transactions in Thailand, using a credit card from a foreign bank and the amounts are not small. We checked with Immi and it seems you were tax resident in Thailand during the year and have been so for several years. Since a credit card transaction of that nature represents potentially assessable income in Thailand, we wonder if you should have filed a Thai tax return but overlooked it, can you please clarify?

 

Foreigner to TRD: All good here, overseas money was pre 12/31/12 savings so not assessable here.

 

TRD to Foreigner: Cool, would you mind coming into our offices next week to meet with us and bringing the relevant statements/paperwork with you so we can confirm your assessment is accurate?  Thanks, see you Wednesday at 10am.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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2 minutes ago, Yumthai said:

The list of accounts they've withheld interest is not comprehensive of tax residents holding accounts not bearing interests.

 

I assume sharing a systemic list of accounts transactions is against data privacy.

Very True, but I edited my post to show how they could simply pull a list together of all incoming transactions from any bank 

 

Pretty sure that the Banks have the right (Obligation) to share account transactions with the Tax Department.

Edited by Mike Teavee
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5 minutes ago, Mike Teavee said:

Very True, but I edited my post to show how they could simply pull a list together of all incoming transactions from any bank 

 

Pretty sure that the Banks have the right to share account transactions with the Tax Department.

Plus I don't think any list supplied by the banks, must be all inclusive of everyone and all accounts, it just needs to contain certain classes, types or categories of account..

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4 minutes ago, Mike Teavee said:

Very True, but I edited my post to show how they could simply pull a list together of all incoming transactions from any bank 

There's indeed no issue to gather and process information, rather the means and will to implement things in the field which is clearly inconsistent in Thailand.

 

4 minutes ago, Mike Teavee said:

Pretty sure that the Banks have the right to share account transactions with the Tax Department.

My point is "systematically", they certainly can get a deep access to individual bank accounts with a legal reason. Is Thailand North Korea yet?

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Anyways, I've just pulled the trigger on sending another £3,000 across (came out at 131,443.85 THB) so I'll be c130,000 over my TEDA which means a tax bill of c6,500 - after offsetting the interest withheld from my savings account (c8,000 THB) I should be roughly Tax neutral.

 

For any guys looking to send money over from the UK, I expect the rate to go up now... It always does just after I send some money 😞 

 

Joking aside, I was happy with 43.81 (after Wise fees).

Edited by Mike Teavee
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No clear announcement about the expat tax things.

Stop worrying.

And start waiting  for the things to come out in the way we can understand.

At this moment, it is nothing more than tax chief's unofficial speech.

 

And ignore all those  stupid invitations from any accounting firms  for  Information Session; their only aim is to rip you off in return for the useless advice

How can they show anything  useful when they don't  really know what will happen in the near future either.

 

Personally, I am still very much in doubt If any real changes take place regarding  retirees'  income tax issue.

Edited by black tabby12345
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15 hours ago, chiang mai said:

And a second one that I've not seen before, from Siam Legal dated a month ago, a few interesting points in there, not least of which being when foreigners need to file a tax return. The relevant slide starts, "A Foreigner shall file a tax return if: Bear in mind, this is from Siam Legal.

 

 

Thanks for posting this video.

 

To balance this out, see the video from around 1:01-1:07 , where the AITA tax adviser Thomas Carden discusses his views on the practical implementation of taxation on foreigners.

 

Note with his firm( vs others that were created only in 2023 year and are currently very actively soliciting expats),  is AITA have actual experience processing tax returns in Thailand AND dealing with the TRD.

 

His opinions are:

 

·        the TRD does now know how / if they will implement taxation on foreign remittance, and thinks further change/delay is likely.

·        The TRD lacks the infrastructure to handle the complexity , and secondly there is no enforced requirement to register for a TIN.

·        The tax code they have, and the procedures in place, and is not sufficient to handle the complexity of actually processing these returns for foreign nationals.

 

He cites 2 examples:

 

1.      A case where a foreigner asked the TRD to tax them on his foreign income, he was told “leave, we don’t know how to do that”

 

2.       Another case they have been working on, where a Thai resident sought to claim a low $ value DTA tax credit from when they worked in the US for a period. They have been working with the TRD on this for 15 months to get a single credit, and the TRD is still saying “ we cannot determine how to process this in our system”.

 

 

Overlay these real-world examples with the theory of processing of 300,000 expat tax returns, and consider that.

 

Food for thought.

 

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5 hours ago, chiang mai said:

You're right, not the best choice of words on my part. Well known, significant, farang friendly, prominent, well regarded take your pick. But it doesn't change the fact that it's a well regarded law firm, so if we're going to pay attention to what the other say, we need to pay attention to this one also. 

 

https://www.legal500.com/firms/34053-siam-legal-international/c-thailand/about

 

I'm afraid I don't agree.Just look at the amateurish CVs of the lawyers/foreign partners on the web site.I have no doubt they could assist in relatively low level immigration matters and are definitely farang friendly.Essentially they represent a segment of the legal market - among many - for a certain type of foreigner.Personally I would not dream of employing a firm like this especially on tax matters where they have no expertise.

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2 minutes ago, jayboy said:

 

I'm afraid I don't agree.Just look at the amateurish CVs of the lawyers/foreign partners on the web site.I have no doubt they could assist in relatively low level immigration matters and are definitely farang friendly.Essentially they represent a segment of the legal market - among many - for a certain type of foreigner.Personally I would not dream of employing a firm like this especially on tax matters where they have no expertise.

Well their tax guy has a Master from Kings College UK so I'd say he probably knows what he's talking about. Plus as Lorry said earlier, one of the representatives in the tax meeting is a professor of tax/economics.

 

https://www.legal500.com/firms/34053-siam-legal-international/c-thailand/news-and-developments/meet-dhanabol-chomsaengchok-our-expert-thailand-tax-advisor

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2 hours ago, JimGant said:

Even if the credit card purchase I make in Thailand is not considered a loan, but a marker to be paid back from my checking account -- who's to say that money in my checking account is income, or even assessable income for Thai tax purposes? In my case, all the money in my checking account is from direct deposits from my govt pension and from social security. And this money is non assessable by Thailand, per DTA.

I agree.

But I will make sure that I have some documentation,  if asked.

What documentation TRD actually wants and accepts,  is anyone's guess.

If it's a tax certificate translated,  certified, and legalised by various embassies and MFA,  "signed by 2 directors", my solution is probably leaving Thailand. 

The Siam legal guy said "you will get a tax certificate" in your home-country - 555.

Pensioners here have for decades unsuccessfully tried to get a Thai tax certificate - it won't be easier in my country. 

 

What I found disturbing is that TRD has thought about credit cards at all.

2 hours ago, JimGant said:

it's unimaginable that Thailand is treating all remittances as assessable income

I find it rather imaginable.

My tax adviser in my home country even told me, they would probably introduce a WHT on remittances.  I don't believe this,  but I mention it to show how tax people "think".

2 hours ago, JimGant said:

Siam Legal seems to have a few holes in their thought process. Not sure I'd want to rely on any of their guidance.....

Agreed. 

 

BTW the  Siam Legal guy also explained, that the new rules are not law.

The law is ambiguous (this has been discussed on AN at the very beginning of all this). He said,  if the law is ambiguous it should be interpreted in the way most favorable to the tax payer. He thinks,  if the new rules are challenged in court, the tax payer would win.

 

Edited by Lorry
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2 minutes ago, Lorry said:

BTW the  Siam Legal guy also explained, that the new rules are not law.

The law is ambiguous (this has been discussed on AN at the very beginning of all this). He said,  if the law is ambiguous it should be interpreted in the way most favorable to the tax payer. He thinks,  if the new rules are challenged in court, the tax payer would win.

 

If the tax payer is Thai.

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45 minutes ago, RupertIII said:

If the tax payer is Thai.

I think so.

But to be honest,  I haven't seen any discrimination towards me as a foreigner in my (limited) dealings with the TRD so far.

Last time,  the motorcycle driver who brought me there and me got the same treatment (200B late fee).

Difference was, I got a receipt,  he didn't. 

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