Incredible US banking ineptness

[gamb00ler]

1 hour ago, gamb00ler said:

It sounds like you are not a Citibank customer.  If you are a customer why would you feel uncomfortable giving them your name and account number?

 

 

1 hour ago, jaywalker2 said:

And what difference does it make if I have a Citibank account?  The name on the credit card account and the email account isn't mine. Why do they need my personal details?

As you can see.... I gave an explanation of why it's relevant if you have a Citibank account.... 

 

.... and you have never (in this topic) stated if you have a Citibank account.

[cjinchiangrai]

On 10/1/2024 at 2:07 PM, jaywalker2 said:

No, citibank confirmed it was a real account. They said they couldn't close it without proof it was fake.

And they said they needed better identification for the complaint that was refused. I would not accept account complaints from an unidentified Karen either.

[Presnock]

11 hours ago, jaywalker2 said:

Could you please name them? I just tried to open an Ally bank account and was refused even though I had a US address because of my lack of credit history. I tried to open a Vanguard account and they refused because they suspected I wasn't in the US. I have an account Citibank but they will not issue me a credit card because I'm living abroad.

 

So, please, I would be very happy to know which bank would let me open an account from Thailand and issue me a credit cards using my Thai address.

State Department Federal Credit Union.  (sdfcu.org).  Not necessary to be any kind of US govt employee or retiree.  The bank will give you a list of organizations that you will need to join prior to opening the account,.  The costs of some are really low.  I joined American Citizens Abroad  and once the account has been opened, the following year you do not have to renew your membership in that organization.  The bank will issue credit cards, etc.  They have a really active fraud for the cards too especially since we are overseas.  I have been a member now for 5 years because BOA cancelled my account after 40 years because I had no US address  or phone number.  There are other banks that will also open an account for American expats (I think), once read Navy credit Union too but really have no info on other than the SDFCU.  Good luck!

[jaywalker2]

22 minutes ago, Presnock said:

State Department Federal Credit Union.  (sdfcu.org).  Not necessary to be any kind of US govt employee or retiree.  The bank will give you a list of organizations that you will need to join prior to opening the account,.  The costs of some are really low.  I joined American Citizens Abroad  and once the account has been opened, the following year you do not have to renew your membership in that organization.  The bank will issue credit cards, etc.  They have a really active fraud for the cards too especially since we are overseas.  I have been a member now for 5 years because BOA cancelled my account after 40 years because I had no US address  or phone number.  There are other banks that will also open an account for American expats (I think), once read Navy credit Union too but really have no info on other than the SDFCU.  Good luck!

Thanks, very helpful information.

[itsari]

On 10/2/2024 at 2:27 PM, bubblegum said:

Just open a Wise account, it's in Belgium with a Belgium bank nr. and IBAN.

Not a bad idea but you have to realise that Wise is not a bank.

Certain risks involved in leaving money with them eventhough they place most funds in other banks that may save you if the company went bankrupt

[Dan O]

11 hours ago, jaywalker2 said:

They can check the social security number on the account and see if it matches the name. Why do they need my personal details?

So you call them to shut down the fake account but refuse to prove who you are so they can match the account and help you?

 

They need to know who you are and if the account is yours so they match your ss to what shows on the acct. Checking the one on the account doesn't tell them its your account it just tells them the account has a ss number. Think about it, its not rocket science. 

 

It was most like a scam email try to phish for your details if you clicked on the link in the email. 

[NedR69]

Quote

It's just amazing to me the hoops somebody who lives overseas has to jump through in order to open a bank account, keep it open, or get a credit card or do anything else.

 

Problems with US banks / accounts??   Maybe it's you that has the problem.  If you have difficulty opening a bank account or applying for a new CC, it's you, not the bank or the lender....you, your problem.

 

If you're trying to open a bank account or apply for a CC while you are in a foreign country....it's your lack of understanding common business practices and maybe lacking common sense and piss poor planning.  If this fits you, then I'll put some things on FB marketplace to sell you.  After you transfer the money to me, I'll ship the items to you right away!

 

A few weeks ago (Sep '24), I opened new checking and savings accounts with a high rated and exclusive banking institution. that I've done biz with since '94. I did this here in Thailand, no phone calls, just my laptop.  It was simple to complete online and then I transferred/deposited about 2000 THB / $50 to each account.  A week later, I wired a large deposit using Swift from my BK Bank to my new US Bank account.  It was almost instant and the next morning it was there when I checked online. Using Swift to transfer to the US was my only reason for opening a new chk/sav account with this bank that I've used for other account types for a 30 years. Not every US bank accept Swift or foreign currency transfers.

 

If you're having problems, you may be someone that didn't have smart plans or any strategy and arrived in Thailand with ONE single debit card/ATM card, and probably one CC, or maybe no CC at all.  You can read those sob stories on social media when someone can't access their bank or their money back in their home  country.

 

When I moved here several years ago, I arrived with 3 debit/ATM cards and 3 CC.  The same 3 banks and cards I've had for 30+ years.  I have no trouble keeping these accounts and cards and living here in in Thai.  For those from other non-US countries...I feel grateful and blessed when I read about your woes and problems because you don't have the same freedom and liberties.  

[john donson]

Now, I don't have a Citibank credit card, I have never applied for a Citibank credit card.

 

 

why all the fuzz... just ignore, probably SCAM/FRAUD mail

[Dan O]

13 hours ago, jaywalker2 said:

No, of course I didn't click on any links. This is the email address: [email protected]

 

When I called Citibank, they seemed to indicate that it was a legitimate account although admittedly I had soe difficulty understanding the representative because of the poor quality of the call. She made no mention of a phishing scam.

 

Heere's a Reddit post on the same theme:

So I’ve been getting a lot of realistic emails and phone calls from Citi Bank saying I have applied for a card and it was accepted and being shipped to me, even though I have NEVER even so much as even thought about getting a Citi card. The street address in the email was correct, and they even left me a message with a callback number and reference number. I tried calling the callback numbers and it just says called failed.

I also tried contacting Citi Bank directly about this from the number listed on their website and not only was the fraud prevention agent very rude and extremely hard to hear due to a terrible quality mic, they demanded my ssn, which I refused to share. I work in tech and know a phish when I see one, so despite how realistic and accurate these calls and emails seem to be I have to assume it is phishing. Citi bank support absolutely sucks and is totally unhelpful. I looked up the email domains and phone numbers and most posts/sites seem to say they’re not fraudulent?

FYI, the emails usually come from [email protected] or [email protected] and the phone numbers were 8664933599 and +1 (866) 299-2421. Hoping this will at least find someone who’s also experiencing this, and if anyone has a similar experience please shed some light!

You work in tech and can't see a phishing scam email for what it is. Then claim the call center is not helpful but you refuse to give them needed info to verify your claim of a fake acct?  Seems Citi bank isn't the only one that sucks and isnt helpful.

[Presnock]

17 minutes ago, NedR69 said:

 

Problems with US banks / accounts??   Maybe it's you that has the problem.  If you have difficulty opening a bank account or applying for a new CC, it's you, not the bank or the lender....you, your problem.

 

If you're trying to open a bank account or apply for a CC while you are in a foreign country....it's your lack of understanding common business practices and maybe lacking common sense and piss poor planning.  If this fits you, then I'll put some things on FB marketplace to sell you.  After you transfer the money to me, I'll ship the items to you right away!

 

A few weeks ago (Sep '24), I opened new checking and savings accounts with a high rated and exclusive banking institution. that I've done biz with since '94. I did this here in Thailand, no phone calls, just my laptop.  It was simple to complete online and then I transferred/deposited about 2000 THB / $50 to each account.  A week later, I wired a large deposit using Swift from my BK Bank to my new US Bank account.  It was almost instant and the next morning it was there when I checked online. Using Swift to transfer to the US was my only reason for opening a new chk/sav account with this bank that I've used for other account types for a 30 years. Not every US bank accept Swift or foreign currency transfers.

 

If you're having problems, you may be someone that didn't have smart plans or any strategy and arrived in Thailand with ONE single debit card/ATM card, and probably one CC, or maybe no CC at all.  You can read those sob stories on social media when someone can't access their bank or their money back in their home  country.

 

When I moved here several years ago, I arrived with 3 debit/ATM cards and 3 CC.  The same 3 banks and cards I've had for 30+ years.  I have no trouble keeping these accounts and cards and living here in in Thai.  For those from other non-US countries...I feel grateful and blessed when I read about your woes and problems because you don't have the same freedom and liberties.  

Yeah you come lately guys have all the answers.  But what you fail to understand is that many of us came here 20 or more years ago when the banking industry was entirely different.  Now with the OECD, FACTA and CRS banks in many countries have different operating rules.  I had a BOA acct or more than 40 years but when the new rules came down about 5 years ago I had already sold my US property so instead of lying about where I lived (meaning maybe a relative or friend but not true in reality) I told the bank my living address in Thailand so my acct was cancelled.   Fortunately I was informed that the State Department Federal Credit Union would open an account and did not have to be any kind of govt employee living overseas to do so.  I have now been with them for 5 years, have credit cards, my Thai wife and daughter are co-acct holders.  Haven't had any issues with this bank at all and they provide good security on my credit card too.   If I had moved here in the last 5 years, life could very easily be different.  You blaming the expats when you don't have any idea of our lives before coming here and being prepared for changes a future world.  now that you are here, guess there might be even more changes coming even for you but guess  you are omnicient about life and any future changes.  Anyway glad you have no problems unlike many in the real world.

[Hamus Yaigh]

14 hours ago, jaywalker2 said:

17 hours ago, Hamus Yaigh said:

Why would anyone go to the trouble of doing this? Just flag the email as spam and forget it! Besides no bank would send a statement to an email account.

Maybe because I don't want a fraudulent credit card account associated with my email?

Every spam email you receive is fraud associated with your email, life's too short to follow up every spam you get with a phone call. Just hit the SPAM button and forget/block it.

[bradiston]

1 hour ago, NedR69 said:

 

Problems with US banks / accounts??   Maybe it's you that has the problem.  If you have difficulty opening a bank account or applying for a new CC, it's you, not the bank or the lender....you, your problem.

 

If you're trying to open a bank account or apply for a CC while you are in a foreign country....it's your lack of understanding common business practices and maybe lacking common sense and piss poor planning.  If this fits you, then I'll put some things on FB marketplace to sell you.  After you transfer the money to me, I'll ship the items to you right away!

 

A few weeks ago (Sep '24), I opened new checking and savings accounts with a high rated and exclusive banking institution. that I've done biz with since '94. I did this here in Thailand, no phone calls, just my laptop.  It was simple to complete online and then I transferred/deposited about 2000 THB / $50 to each account.  A week later, I wired a large deposit using Swift from my BK Bank to my new US Bank account.  It was almost instant and the next morning it was there when I checked online. Using Swift to transfer to the US was my only reason for opening a new chk/sav account with this bank that I've used for other account types for a 30 years. Not every US bank accept Swift or foreign currency transfers.

 

If you're having problems, you may be someone that didn't have smart plans or any strategy and arrived in Thailand with ONE single debit card/ATM card, and probably one CC, or maybe no CC at all.  You can read those sob stories on social media when someone can't access their bank or their money back in their home  country.

 

When I moved here several years ago, I arrived with 3 debit/ATM cards and 3 CC.  The same 3 banks and cards I've had for 30+ years.  I have no trouble keeping these accounts and cards and living here in in Thai.  For those from other non-US countries...I feel grateful and blessed when I read about your woes and problems because you don't have the same freedom and liberties.  

Actually this thread was about US citizens having problems with US banks. Non-US have the same freedoms and liberties, so your smug suggestion we are some sort of poor distant cousins living in the dark ages is well wide of the mark. But most of us don't have the idiot's charter, which is  2A. I don't know what makes you think the chaotic gunfight that the US seems to be, is somehow superior to the relative calm in Europe and elsewhere!

[jaywalker2]

1 hour ago, Dan O said:

You work in tech and can't see a phishing scam email for what it is. Then claim the call center is not helpful but you refuse to give them needed info to verify your claim of a fake acct?  Seems Citi bank isn't the only one that sucks and isnt helpful.

A post that manages to get everything wrong. Amazing. I don't work in tech, it wasn't a phishing scam, and Citibank confirmed the account existed.  I gave them all the info they needed to check my "claim." You really are bitter, aren't you.

[jaywalker2]

1 hour ago, Presnock said:

Yeah you come lately guys have all the answers.  But what you fail to understand is that many of us came here 20 or more years ago when the banking industry was entirely different.  Now with the OECD, FACTA and CRS banks in many countries have different operating rules.  I had a BOA acct or more than 40 years but when the new rules came down about 5 years ago I had already sold my US property so instead of lying about where I lived (meaning maybe a relative or friend but not true in reality) I told the bank my living address in Thailand so my acct was cancelled.   Fortunately I was informed that the State Department Federal Credit Union would open an account and did not have to be any kind of govt employee living overseas to do so.  I have now been with them for 5 years, have credit cards, my Thai wife and daughter are co-acct holders.  Haven't had any issues with this bank at all and they provide good security on my credit card too.   If I had moved here in the last 5 years, life could very easily be different.  You blaming the expats when you don't have any idea of our lives before coming here and being prepared for changes a future world.  now that you are here, guess there might be even more changes coming even for you but guess  you are omnicient about life and any future changes.  Anyway glad you have no problems unlike many in the real world.

Congratulations, you've just disparaged most of the Americans on this forum as well as all those other people who have had their bank and brokerage accounts closed unilaterally because they're not as smart as youl,

[jaywalker2]

43 minutes ago, Hamus Yaigh said:

Every spam email you receive is fraud associated with your email, life's too short to follow up every spam you get with a phone call. Just hit the SPAM button and forget/block it.

Who said anything about following up every spam email? This was an obviously fraudulent account. You would think the bank would want to know about that. I was doing them a service.

[jaywalker2]

2 hours ago, Dan O said:

So you call them to shut down the fake account but refuse to prove who you are so they can match the account and help you?

 

They need to know who you are and if the account is yours so they match your ss to what shows on the acct. Checking the one on the account doesn't tell them its your account it just tells them the account has a ss number. Think about it, its not rocket science. 

 

It was most like a scam email try to phish for your details if you clicked on the link in the email. 

You should go to work for Citibank. It looks like you're fully qualified.

[AAArdvark]

If you care, your credit score has been considerably been reduced. 

Your bank can put a stop to any new credit requests without proving who you are. 

[Dan O]

48 minutes ago, jaywalker2 said:

A post that manages to get everything wrong. Amazing. I don't work in tech, it wasn't a phishing scam, and Citibank confirmed the account existed.  I gave them all the info they needed to check my "claim." You really are bitter, aren't you.

Nope just responding to your posts. You may want to go back and check what you wrote and pics you posted as everything you just wrote is not matching your posts. 

[Dan O]

47 minutes ago, jaywalker2 said:

You should go to work for Citibank. It looks like you're fully qualified.

Nope just relaying facts that most normally educated people understand. When you ask for help and refuse to give the info needed to help you should not whine about the lack of help you receive.  Sorry I can't help you more with this. Have a nice day and thanks for posting

[Jenkins9039]

On 10/1/2024 at 8:55 AM, jaywalker2 said:

I received a credit card statement in one of my secondary email accounts from Citibank. Now, I don't have a Citibank credit card, I have never applied for a Citibank credit card. The name on the email account is not my real name, it's basically an account I use when signing up for things on the web to avoid spam in my primary account.

 

But this credit card account was using my email address and the name on the email account. So as a courtesy, instead of just blocking it, I called up Citibank to report a fradulent credit card account. First of all, it took me several phone calls just to talk to a representative. Then it was not the right representative, I had to  be transferred, they transferred to the wrong place, I had to be transferred again, I was cut off. I had to call back.

 

Finally, I reached somebody who ostensibly could help me and I duly reported that my email address and the name on the account had been used fradulently to take out a credit card. Were they grateful? No. They insisted they needed my social security number and name, which I wasn't about to give them, of course. Instead, I told them that it was very easy to check whether this was a valid account. I gave them the last four numbers of the credit card account, the name on the account, the date the person became a card member. And I told them all they had to do was check the social security number on the application against the name. They can't possibly match.

 

The representative, it sounded like a Filipino call center, kept giving me an argument, so I finally told them they could investigate or not as they pleased, but I wasn't going to be associated with a fradulent account and that I would block any further message.

 

It's just amazing to me the hoops somebody who lives overseas has to jump through in order to open a bank account, keep it open, or get a credit card or do anything else. I tried to open an account at Ally Bank, for instance, and they rejected me because I didn't have enough of a US credit history even though I gave a US adsdress. And yet ithese banks seem to be handing out credit cards with no credit checks at all.  And even when you report a fraud, they act like they don't care.

 

Well, that's my rant of the day.
 

Why on earth did you ring?

Just email with concise information and its passed to a monkey with actual knowledge of the issue without the communication issues from afar, and dealt with.

There -> 

[email protected]

 

 

Email the CEO next time, will get dealt with within 24 hrs.

[Presnock]

2 hours ago, jaywalker2 said:

Congratulations, you've just disparaged most of the Americans on this forum as well as all those other people who have had their bank and brokerage accounts closed unilaterally because they're not as smart as youl,

well you got it wrong again as I was informed on this forum about the SDFCU opening accts.   Smart? no just can read and understand English.  SDFCU recognized the need and someone else on this forum put out the needed information which is what many do on this forum.  You are the one talking about folks not being prepared or aware.

[RemyDog]

On 10/1/2024 at 8:55 AM, jaywalker2 said:

I received a credit card statement in one of my secondary email accounts from Citibank. Now, I don't have a Citibank credit card, I have never applied for a Citibank credit card. The name on the email account is not my real name, it's basically an account I use when signing up for things on the web to avoid spam in my primary account.

 

But this credit card account was using my email address and the name on the email account. So as a courtesy, instead of just blocking it, I called up Citibank to report a fradulent credit card account. First of all, it took me several phone calls just to talk to a representative. Then it was not the right representative, I had to  be transferred, they transferred to the wrong place, I had to be transferred again, I was cut off. I had to call back.

 

Finally, I reached somebody who ostensibly could help me and I duly reported that my email address and the name on the account had been used fradulently to take out a credit card. Were they grateful? No. They insisted they needed my social security number and name, which I wasn't about to give them, of course. Instead, I told them that it was very easy to check whether this was a valid account. I gave them the last four numbers of the credit card account, the name on the account, the date the person became a card member. And I told them all they had to do was check the social security number on the application against the name. They can't possibly match.

 

The representative, it sounded like a Filipino call center, kept giving me an argument, so I finally told them they could investigate or not as they pleased, but I wasn't going to be associated with a fradulent account and that I would block any further message.

 

It's just amazing to me the hoops somebody who lives overseas has to jump through in order to open a bank account, keep it open, or get a credit card or do anything else. I tried to open an account at Ally Bank, for instance, and they rejected me because I didn't have enough of a US credit history even though I gave a US adsdress. And yet ithese banks seem to be handing out credit cards with no credit checks at all.  And even when you report a fraud, they act like they don't care.

 

Well, that's my rant of the day.
 

I had very similar issues and experience with Citibank about 5 years ago. I am an Australian and in theory I was dealing with Citibank in Australia where I had 4 multi currency accounts (AUD, USD, CAD & EUR). The results were that I closed the 4 Citibank accounts and blocked all contact from their "customer recovery section". Citibank lost a good profitable account: Transfer WISE gained that good account: and I saved money, have on going good service and no hassles. Cheers for now.

[Presnock]

On 10/1/2024 at 9:11 AM, 1FinickyOne said:

Sounds like business as usual... 

 

But, not at my bank. I have had the same account for over 20 years and the management knows me and the account is locked down other than our regular transactions. 

I too have a bank with a very active fraud division.  Anytime an unusual charge is made on my acct, I get an email advising that prior to paying they would like my advising them of the validity of that charge.  Has never failed yet in the 5 years I have had an acct with them.

[RemyDog]

On 10/3/2024 at 12:23 PM, Everyman said:

 

They do, but I’ve always thought it was not a good idea compared to a traditional account. At least Citi is too big to fail, no matter how useless their call centers. 

That is what was said about LeMann Bros Bank and BearSterns plus some banks in other countries in 2007-2010. No such thing as Cannot fail.

[thaisabai]

On 10/2/2024 at 11:25 AM, Everyman said:

 

I have several real Citibank credit cards and accounts. Nine out of ten representatives in those Filipino call centers are useless idiots. They know nothing, have no power or common sense and just waste your time. 

totally agree with you.  I am presently going through a Citibank/Filipino stress situation

and it is hopeless.

 

thaisabai

[CM Dad]

On 10/1/2024 at 8:55 AM, jaywalker2 said:

I received a credit card statement in one of my secondary email accounts from Citibank. Now, I don't have a Citibank credit card, I have never applied for a Citibank credit card. The name on the email account is not my real name, it's basically an account I use when signing up for things on the web to avoid spam in my primary account.

 

But this credit card account was using my email address and the name on the email account. So as a courtesy, instead of just blocking it, I called up Citibank to report a fradulent credit card account. First of all, it took me several phone calls just to talk to a representative. Then it was not the right representative, I had to  be transferred, they transferred to the wrong place, I had to be transferred again, I was cut off. I had to call back.

 

Finally, I reached somebody who ostensibly could help me and I duly reported that my email address and the name on the account had been used fradulently to take out a credit card. Were they grateful? No. They insisted they needed my social security number and name, which I wasn't about to give them, of course. Instead, I told them that it was very easy to check whether this was a valid account. I gave them the last four numbers of the credit card account, the name on the account, the date the person became a card member. And I told them all they had to do was check the social security number on the application against the name. They can't possibly match.

 

The representative, it sounded like a Filipino call center, kept giving me an argument, so I finally told them they could investigate or not as they pleased, but I wasn't going to be associated with a fradulent account and that I would block any further message.

 

It's just amazing to me the hoops somebody who lives overseas has to jump through in order to open a bank account, keep it open, or get a credit card or do anything else. I tried to open an account at Ally Bank, for instance, and they rejected me because I didn't have enough of a US credit history even though I gave a US adsdress. And yet ithese banks seem to be handing out credit cards with no credit checks at all.  And even when you report a fraud, they act like they don't care.

 

Well, that's my rant of the day.
 

I had to deal with issues a very old - 80 plus - friend was having with Citibank several years ago. Like you, I was unsuccessful, so with my friends permission since he was physically incapacitated, I took his credit/debit card and pin number and over a two week period completely emptied his account and helped him set up other financial arrangements with the help of Bangkok Bank.  I would never recommend Citibank to anyone!

[jaywalker2]

46 minutes ago, Presnock said:

well you got it wrong again as I was informed on this forum about the SDFCU opening accts.   Smart? no just can read and understand English.  SDFCU recognized the need and someone else on this forum put out the needed information which is what many do on this forum.  You are the one talking about folks not being prepared or aware.

I apologize. You did offer very valuable information. I was actually responding to a post by NedR69 and mistakenly quoted you. He was the one disparaging, not you.

 

As it happened, I arrived with an international account and I also had a brokerage account that I had been using internationally with no problem. But 9/11 and the Patriot Act changed everything, of course.  Now it's necessary to have back ups in case your bank or brokerage suddenly decides it wants to change the rules without any notice. I have thought about switching my brokerage account to Schwab International although the lack of a transfer-on-death service has made me hesitate as the account would have to go through probate. Plus, there's the usual inertia since I've been with my current brokerage for so long. I will probably open an account at SDFCU in order to have a back up bank account and access to a credit card that doesn't require me to hide my real address.

 

 

[jaywalker2]

I should clarify that this same situation occurred to me once before. At that time, I received email notification that I had been approved for a Citiibank credit card, which was being sent to me. Since I hadn't applied for a credit card, I contacted Citibank and reported the situation. Then, however, the girl was very understanding. She took the information and checked the account. She did ask for my name and social security number but when I explained I didn't want my personal details associated with a fraudulent credit card account, she told me she understood.

 

She said she couldn't close the account but she would suspend it while they investigated. Later, I received an email from Dell Computer. Somebody had tried to buy a laptop with that credit card but it had been rejected. So I guess they did cancel it.

 

I suspect this is probably fairly common and due to lax checking procedures for credit card applications for small accounts.

[jaywalker2]

15 hours ago, gamb00ler said:

 

As you can see.... I gave an explanation of why it's relevant if you have a Citibank account.... 

 

.... and you have never (in this topic) stated if you have a Citibank account.

Yes but it's not relevant because the name on the credit card account is not mine. The email account is one I use to sign up for things that I think will generate spam. I don't use my real name of course. In fact, I hardly every use my real name on social media.

[bradiston]

42 minutes ago, thaisabai said:

totally agree with you.  I am presently going through a Citibank/Filipino stress situation

and it is hopeless.

 

thaisabai

I too went through Filipina rehab. In Ban Chang, Rayong. 6 months careful nursing by the sweet ladies on the little strip there, cold Guinness in the oirish bar, with English footie, and excellent draught cider, and speckled hen at the bar come b and b whose name I can't remember, and I was right as rain. Great little condo apartment too.