Corruption scandal hits the brakes: Thailand’s bus industry whistleblows dirty dealings

[harryviking]

Thailand is a totally irresponsible place when it comes to safety! Corruption and ignorance everywhere!! And no one cares! 

[OneMoreFarang]

46 minutes ago, koele2 said:

And they really don’t do anything.

It must be a lot of work to collect all that money. Who paid already and how much? What should he pay next time? How to hide all that money? How to spend it? That's a lot of work. 

[hotchilli]

3 hours ago, actonion said:

Who are these  so called Inspectors what training  do they have, if any ?.....Ex  Motorbike Taxi drivers at best 

Everyone is open to a bribe... This is Thailand.

[black tabby12345]

Hope the death of 23 makes a difference for the future.

 

[MikeandDow]

9 minutes ago, black tabby12345 said:

Hope the death of 23 makes a difference for the future.

 

Keep dreaming

[black tabby12345]

1 hour ago, harryviking said:

Thailand is a totally irresponsible place when it comes to safety! Corruption and ignorance everywhere!! And no one cares! 

 

I still remember what happened within 7 feet from me, 16 years ago during the Chinese New Year season.

 

Some idiot launched  3-inch wide fireworks only a feet away from the front door of a small internet cafe I used to use frequent.

Kaboom! and the whole building was shaken as if artillery round impacted nearby ground.

 

Fortunately, no one got injured or killed by that...

 

Edited 4 hours ago by black tabby12345

[Confuscious]

For everything on this planet, there is only a market if there are buyers.
Stop the buyers to buy/rent "bribed items" and the bribery will vanish too.
Not recket science.

If the people who rent/buy a bus "DULY INSPENT" that bus and refuse it if some minimal safery standards are not followed, the bus transport industry will update their bus fleet to avoid losses.

The schools and other industries should hire people who know what inspections to carry out before allowing anybody to accept the bus(ses).

There should be also an independent institution (in Belgium exists "Test Aankoop") at the top level where goods that are not according to the safety standards can be reported and banned from sale/rent and eventually prosecuted.
Also, in Belgium, many departments have an independant "OMBUDSMAN" where users/buyers can go if the normal way offers no solution.
Social Media offers a very good tool to expose offenders.

Edited 4 hours ago by Confuscious
Add

[Graham8888]

20 hours ago, OneMoreFarang said:

Shocking! Who would have thought there could be corruption anywhere in Thailand?

 

In this case it should be easy to follow the paper trail. Who signed the inspections? Arrest those people and put them on murder charges. And then maybe give them the chance to expose others who are also involved in those scams.

Arrest them and put them in jail. And make sure everybody knows what will happen if they do the same again.

There would be no inspectors left - same if you sought out corruption in any of the xivil service  here - its so endemic and people only work in government jobs for the bribes- you have to bribe someone to get the job! Etc etc

[Sig]

21 hours ago, snoop1130 said:

As of now, no relevant officials have come forward to verify the information shared in the media.

Ya don't say!!😯

[PETERTHEEATER]

20 hours ago, OneMoreFarang said:

Shocking! Who would have thought there could be corruption anywhere in Thailand?

 

In this case it should be easy to follow the paper trail. Who signed the inspections? Arrest those people and put them on murder charges. And then maybe give them the chance to expose others who are also involved in those scams.

Arrest them and put them in jail. And make sure everybody knows what will happen if they do the same again.

To be fair, some applicants will submit valid conversions which are properly inspected and a certificate issued but later the bus owners modify the installation but do not resubmit the vehicle for inspection and recertification. The original certificate will specify the number of cylinders permitted.

 

What I don't understand in todays update is this:

 

Furthermore, some of the gas tanks were installed inside the bus, 

 

Unlike trucks where the cylinders are usually racked externally behind the cab, with buses they are installed in the rear of the baggage compartment which is directly under the seating floor. Where would they be installed outside the bus? Has anyone seen external gas cylinders on a 'tour' bus?

[OneMoreFarang]

51 minutes ago, Graham8888 said:

There would be no inspectors left - same if you sought out corruption in any of the xivil service  here - its so endemic and people only work in government jobs for the bribes- you have to bribe someone to get the job! Etc etc

 

That reminds me that some time ago I asked my gf about the corruption in her village administration. 

She told me something like: Why else would anybody work in that job?

In a way, that makes sense. TiT.

[OneMoreFarang]

49 minutes ago, PETERTHEEATER said:

To be fair, some applicants will submit valid conversions which are properly inspected and a certificate issued but later the bus owners modify the installation but do not resubmit the vehicle for inspection and recertification. The original certificate will specify the number of cylinders permitted.

 

What I don't understand in todays update is this:

 

Furthermore, some of the gas tanks were installed inside the bus, 

 

Unlike trucks where the cylinders are usually racked externally behind the cab, with buses they are installed in the rear of the baggage compartment which is directly under the seating floor. Where would they be installed outside the bus? Has anyone seen external gas cylinders on a 'tour' bus?

Maybe some extra cylinders under the rear bank or in the baggage department. 

[Presnock]

6 hours ago, Bday Prang said:

What does anybody expect , If there is money involved there will be corruption, and the more money there is involved the more corruption there will be.   

Top of the tree will be the large infrastructure projects   Airports, High speed Trains, Highways, etc but the amount of money involved in bus transport will not be insignificant,  probably right up there with Temples 

Everywhere... in the US, no one can understand about inflation and the increased costs of everything.  They thought that they understood that the inflation was brought about by the pandemic and they allowed for the increases in everything due to the inflation...but now, the inflation according to the bank is just over 2% which has been the goal for years, and yet no prices have gone down.  In some instances still increasing.  So now, everyone will go on strike to get an increase in wages so the rich folks will increase the prices by that much more...a never ending scheme of the rich to get richer.

[PETERTHEEATER]

8 minutes ago, OneMoreFarang said:

Maybe some extra cylinders under the rear bank or in the baggage department. 

Yes but they would be internal.

[VBF]

7 hours ago, Gottfrid said:

First, it´s definitely dirty corrupted inspectors and government agencies that are at  most fault here. One thing I wonder about, though. Are the companies trying to shift the blame from them? They are the ones who made the illegal modifications and put people in risk at first place. They are also the ones who are bribing the officials and inspectors, which is also a criminal offense.

There exists the concept of "joint and several liability" where both / all parties are liable to ensure the law is obeyed.

How that pans out in Thai law I don't know.

[off road pat]

22 hours ago, Artisi said:

Did anyone believe that any official would come forward to verify the claims - maybe in a fairy tale it could happen. 

There us always an ex official who is now out of the loop of that corruption money.

[Gottfrid]

10 minutes ago, VBF said:

There exists the concept of "joint and several liability" where both / all parties are liable to ensure the law is obeyed.

How that pans out in Thai law I don't know.

Sure it will exist here too, but my understanding is that it needs to be separated into two or more cases, as never heard about shared liability regarding the same case in Thailand. But that would be easy. One is a bribery case, and the other illegal modification of vehicle in breach of safety standards leading to death.

[Enoon]

2 hours ago, black tabby12345 said:

Hope the death of 23 makes a difference for the future.

 

 

This linked article,  "Could the deaths of 20 school children help make Thailand's roads safer?" will explain why it is unlikely that it will:

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c5y0jm7jpx8o

 

Among other things:

 

"Some blame corruption in the police force. Others blame the Buddhist belief in karma, putting misfortunes like car accidents down to bad luck rather than bad habits.

Although there are posters graphically warning of the dangers of drinking and driving, there has also not been a sustained road safety campaign mounted by any Thai government. Some researchers believe this is because most fatalities, on motorbikes and on public buses, affect lower income groups, and not the policymakers who usually drive, or are driven, in high-end cars with high safety levels."

 

 

 

[VBF]

3 minutes ago, Gottfrid said:

Sure it will exist here too, but my understanding is that it needs to be separated into two or more cases, as never heard about shared liability regarding the same case in Thailand. But that would be easy. One is a bribery case, and the other illegal modification of vehicle in breach of safety standards leading to death.

That's not quite what i meant.

Joint and several means that effectively (legally) a contract exists between (in this case) the bus company and the inspectors such that if the correct work and inspections are not carried out, BOTH become liable under law and may be prosecuted.

 

 

As i say though, i know little of Thai law, and judging from your reply, you're just assuming that's the case in Thailand.  Assumptions are often dangerous. 

[Gottfrid]

12 minutes ago, VBF said:

That's not quite what i meant.

Joint and several means that effectively (legally) a contract exists between (in this case) the bus company and the inspectors such that if the correct work and inspections are not carried out, BOTH become liable under law and may be prosecuted.

 

 

As i say though, i know little of Thai law, and judging from your reply, you're just assuming that's the case in Thailand.  Assumptions are often dangerous. 

You might be right about the danger in assumptions. 😉 However, I will assume again that no such contract exists in Thailand.

[VBF]

8 minutes ago, Gottfrid said:

22 minutes ago, VBF said:

That's not quite what i meant.

Joint and several means that effectively (legally) a contract exists between (in this case) the bus company and the inspectors such that if the correct work and inspections are not carried out, BOTH become liable under law and may be prosecuted.

 

 

As i say though, i know little of Thai law, and judging from your reply, you're just assuming that's the case in Thailand.  Assumptions are often dangerous. 

You might be right about the danger in assumptions. 😉 However, I will assume again that no such contract exists in Thailand.

I'm assuming that also, not only that, but I'm assuming that if it does exist it will be subject to a "financial determination" to be submitted in a brown envelope 🙄

Edited 1 hour ago by VBF

[Presnock]

2 hours ago, PETERTHEEATER said:

To be fair, some applicants will submit valid conversions which are properly inspected and a certificate issued but later the bus owners modify the installation but do not resubmit the vehicle for inspection and recertification. The original certificate will specify the number of cylinders permitted.

 

What I don't understand in todays update is this:

 

Furthermore, some of the gas tanks were installed inside the bus, 

 

Unlike trucks where the cylinders are usually racked externally behind the cab, with buses they are installed in the rear of the baggage compartment which is directly under the seating floor. Where would they be installed outside the bus? Has anyone seen external gas cylinders on a 'tour' bus?

When I was watching the local news, I saw videos of the gas cylinders installed under the seating.  I looked at the cylinders and told my wife that they were just like a ticking time bomb for sure - these were the legal extra installation!  Now they have reported that the fire began from a leaking cylinder near the underside of the bus.   Driver still had time to open emergency doors!  Totally sickening!

[Bday Prang]

49 minutes ago, Enoon said:

 

This linked article,  "Could the deaths of 20 school children help make Thailand's roads safer?" will explain why it is unlikely that it will:

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c5y0jm7jpx8o

 

Among other things:

 

"Some blame corruption in the police force. Others blame the Buddhist belief in karma, putting misfortunes like car accidents down to bad luck rather than bad habits.

Although there are posters graphically warning of the dangers of drinking and driving, there has also not been a sustained road safety campaign mounted by any Thai government. Some researchers believe this is because most fatalities, on motorbikes and on public buses, affect lower income groups, and not the policymakers who usually drive, or are driven, in high-end cars with high safety levels."

 

 

 

          I would say that they live and die by a totally different set of priorities to westerners . Their attitude to death, money, and the value of life bears no resemblance to that held by westerners 

          This is the basis what it actually  means to be "of a different culture"  its a lot more than a few quaint habits and eating different food   or speaking a different language

           Its totally unrealistic to expect them to do pretty much anything the same as it is done in the west , 

[sambum]

"As of now, no relevant officials have come forward to verify the information shared in the media."

 

Now there's a surprise - NOT!

[Inderpland]

11 hours ago, thaigirlwatcher1 said:

I'm familiar with the history of that tragedy in NYC a century ago. And no...it will not make any difference inThailand. The culture of corruption and coverups is engrained in the Thais much like the same culture in China where these practices originated. 

Corruption originated in China? Got any links to credible sources confirming this?

[OneZero]

22 hours ago, dinsdale said:

No surprise. Corruption is endemic. Starts at the very top.

The very top.

Patronage & Corruption are Co-dependent.

 

[Mark989]

Those who took bribes and those in management whose job it was/is to see this corruption did not occur (past & present) need to be held accountable. Those guilty should go to prison for many years. With big fancy titles and wages come the requisite responsibilities. Ignorance of the corruption is not an excuse. Children died as well as their innocent teachers. This was systematic corruption that likely existed for a long time. Clean house and send these scoundrels to prison. They all have the blood of children on their hands. If I were a Thai parent I would be beyond livid. Nationwide protests are warranted.

[DUNROAMIN]

As Gomer would say, surprise, surprise. Life has no value here.

[Bday Prang]

11 minutes ago, DUNROAMIN said:

As Gomer would say, surprise, surprise. Life has no value here.

It does have value, but it is evaluated in a totally different  way to that of the west