Thailand grants citizenship to half a million people – but not farangs

[heiri007]

Interesting and well-deserved move for the migrants. Guess citizenship applications for expats working and living here for long-time remain stalled?

 

 

[JackGats]

What is an "ethnic child"? Do ethnic children grow into ethnic adults? Can you die an ethnic man? Be buried in an ethnic grave?

[dinsdale]

I wonder what % are Chinese?

[KhunBENQ]

Little patience required:

Quote

Chirayu noted, however, that it could take as long as 44 years to process all those applications for Thai citizenship.

 

[madone]

Quote

Thailand grants citizenship to half a million people – but not farangs

Shameless bloody clickbait.

 

[TaoNow]

For many years now, Thailand has had a declining birth rate.

 

There is (legitimate) concern that, at some point in the near future, Thailand's working-age population will begin to decline. 

 

Anyone on this Forum has seen the emerging effects of this at gas pumps, restaurants, domestic-help options, etc.

 

It is too late to try to reverse the modern Thai preference for small families and few children.

 

Thus, in order to meet the near-term labor-force demand and need for eldercare, it makes sense for the Thai government to ease the way for migrants from Myanmar, Laos, and Cambodia to help fill these gaps -- due to the migrants proximity, ethnic similarity to Thais, Buddhist religion, and shared indigenous customs (e.g., Songkram, etc.).

 

For those of these cross-border migrants who spend a significant time in Thailand and can assimilate to the local culture and customs, that investment in the Thai economy and culture might be a viable pathway to citizenship.

 

It is a trend that we will increasingly witness around the world as some countries have aging populations while their neighbors are still "young."

[greeneking]

A friend of mine was brought here from Myanmar when she was 2 years old. She is now 42.

Never having a Thai ID card she never went to school, Healthcare has been a problem and employment difficult.

She can not rent an apartment or a motorbike in her own name.

I hope she will get a card soon.

[Jingthing]

Ethnic is in the eye of the beholder.

[Rob Browder]

5 hours ago, TaoNow said:

For many years now, Thailand has had a declining birth rate.

There is (legitimate) concern that, at some point in the near future, Thailand's working-age population will begin to decline. 

...

It is a trend that we will increasingly witness around the world as some countries have aging populations while their neighbors are still "young."

Who encouraged them to have fewer children?  Remember how they pushed all the "save the planet" crap on us - now say because we did that, our homelands must be flooded foreigners to "save us"?   If there are fewer of us - so what?  More land/resources per-each.

 

I wonder why those in nations with dirt-poor wages were not "instructed" to limit their numbers?  On the contrary - food and medical-aid were funded by taxing us, to maximize their population growth, as their populations exploded.  How Odd, if the goal was "reducing the planet's population," as we were told.

 

And, nevermind all the Thais out in the hinterlands who would like to do the jobs the immigrants are doing, but because they pay wages only immigrants will accept, they opt for a subsistence existence.  Others move across the planet to find a job that pays a decent wage - separated from their families - because immigrants are in THEIR country keeping wages low.

[Lorry]

6 hours ago, TaoNow said:

indigenous customs (e.g., Songkram, etc

That's a good one.

But isn't that more a custom of Israelis, Palestinians, and Americans?

Edited October 30 by Lorry

[TaoNow]

@Lorry: clever lad to spot my typo of 'Songram' instead of 'Songran.'  Tocuche.

 

As for Rob Browder: The Thai national policy in the 1970s-1980s was to make modern contraception as widely available as possible throughout the country. (Believe me -- I was there.)

 

What the Thai government did not anticipate was that rural Thai families (mostly women-headed) wanted fewer than two children. 

 

There was no official pressure, coercion or incentives from the government to have less-than-replacement households.

 

As a result, the Thai population is headed toward negative growth in the decades ahead.

 

What would you do?

 

[mfd101]

On 10/30/2024 at 3:18 PM, TaoNow said:

For many years now, Thailand has had a declining birth rate.

 

There is (legitimate) concern that, at some point in the near future, Thailand's working-age population will begin to decline. 

 

Anyone on this Forum has seen the emerging effects of this at gas pumps, restaurants, domestic-help options, etc.

 

It is too late to try to reverse the modern Thai preference for small families and few children.

 

Thus, in order to meet the near-term labor-force demand and need for eldercare, it makes sense for the Thai government to ease the way for migrants from Myanmar, Laos, and Cambodia to help fill these gaps -- due to the migrants proximity, ethnic similarity to Thais, Buddhist religion, and shared indigenous customs (e.g., Songkram, etc.).

Yes, demographics applies to Thailand just as it does to every 'Western' country and Japan.

[Bday Prang]

14 hours ago, TaoNow said:

@Lorry: clever lad to spot my typo of 'Songram' instead of 'Songran.'  Tocuche.

 

As for Rob Browder: The Thai national policy in the 1970s-1980s was to make modern contraception as widely available as possible throughout the country. (Believe me -- I was there.)

 

What the Thai government did not anticipate was that rural Thai families (mostly women-headed) wanted fewer than two children. 

 

There was no official pressure, coercion or incentives from the government to have less-than-replacement households.

 

As a result, the Thai population is headed toward negative growth in the decades ahead.

 

What would you do?

 

I have not seen many childless families out here in the sticks, nor many with only one child.  they all seem to have 3 or 4  which they start popping out in their early teens, normally from different fathers

[mfd101]

7 minutes ago, Bday Prang said:

I have not seen many childless families out here in the sticks, nor many with only one child.  they all seem to have 3 or 4  which they start popping out in their early teens, normally from different fathers

Yes, my Thai family consists of MIL (c80) - 6 children from 3rd marriage and some 4 or 5 by 2 previous marriages; FIL 6 + c3; from the current 6 (ages 35-47) there are 9 children & teenagers so far ...

[Drumbuie]

On 10/30/2024 at 8:26 PM, Rob Browder said:

Who encouraged them to have fewer children?  Remember how they pushed all the "save the planet" crap on us - now say because we did that, our homelands must be flooded foreigners to "save us"?   If there are fewer of us - so what?  More land/resources per-each.

 

I wonder why those in nations with dirt-poor wages were not "instructed" to limit their numbers?  On the contrary - food and medical-aid were funded by taxing us, to maximize their population growth, as their populations exploded.  How Odd, if the goal was "reducing the planet's population," as we were told.

 

And, nevermind all the Thais out in the hinterlands who would like to do the jobs the immigrants are doing, but because they pay wages only immigrants will accept, they opt for a subsistence existence.  Others move across the planet to find a job that pays a decent wage - separated from their families - because immigrants are in THEIR country keeping wages low.

What keeps wages low isnt immigration, though the billionaires who own the media want you to think so. "It's not us, look, it's those guys over there!"

 

But in fact it's the selfishness of the billionaires whose business methods follow the "stretch and squeeze" doctrine,  cutting wages and increasing profits for the guys at the top. That's why wages are low. 

 

 

[AndreasHG]

On 10/30/2024 at 8:26 PM, Rob Browder said:

Remember how they pushed all the "save the planet" crap on us

On 10/30/2024 at 8:26 PM, Rob Browder said:

I wonder why those in nations with dirt-poor wages were not "instructed" to limit their numbers?

15 hours ago, TaoNow said:

As for Rob Browder: The Thai national policy in the 1970s-1980s was to make modern contraception as widely available as possible

 

Generally speaking, smart people do not allow anything to be pushed upon them, nor to be "instructed" with regards to how they conduct their lives; especially on how many children they have. 

Smart people choose. Idiots are "instructions" takers (and usually become serendipitous parents when proper "instructions" are not timely given).

When it comes to Thai people, they tend to be in average pretty smart, and perfectly capable of deciding by themselves what's best for them, with or without 'the "save the planet" crap'.

 

But I understand this is a very subjective matter: who you are, what you do or have done in life, and who you spend your time with, determines whether you believe people are only meant to passively execute the "instructions" coming from the high above, or to consciously choose how to conduct their lives.

In my opinion, most of the people choose.

 

Edited November 1 by AndreasHG

[Bday Prang]

1 minute ago, mfd101 said:

Yes, my Thai family consists of MIL (c80) - 6 children from 3rd marriage and some 4 or 5 by 2 previous marriages; FIL 6 + c3; from the current 6 (ages 35-47) there are 9 children & teenagers so far ...

may be its a Surin thing   my Fil 82  was the oldest of 9 likewise my MIL  80.also one pf 9  then between them     5 "kids"  aged from  50 - 57  ( so first one at around 23 years old. seems they managed to keep their knickers on a bit longer in them days) 

 Then there are 13 grand kids ranging in age from 30  to 7 months,   And now there are, at the last count, 10 great grand kids aged from 14 to around 1 year old. 

 Thats 28  in total... so far  so i think its fair to say my inlaws have certainly done their bit for king and country,

 AS far as I am aware the MIL and FIL;s siblings all 16 of them ,   and their respective offspring are no different, so intotal there could be around 500 or more !   

The family could keep a genealogist busy for years plotting their family tree,

  I still think I would  feel a bit strange to have an uncle 14 years younger than myself though 

[john donson]

I am not crying for citizenship, but automatic residency without all the 90 day, yearly copies, after a few years of residing or working... our wives got automatic citizenship if living in our home countries, but hey...let's keep showing who is boss...

[Bday Prang]

42 minutes ago, john donson said:

I am not crying for citizenship, but automatic residency without all the 90 day, yearly copies, after a few years of residing or working... our wives got automatic citizenship if living in our home countries, but hey...let's keep showing who is boss...

Well if you are from the UK your Thai  wife would definitely not automatically get citizenship ( unless she arrived illegally on a small inflatable boat)

I wouldn't knock the Thai immigration requirements, its what western countries should be doing but are not !   Hardly too onerous to nip to immigration every 90 days, and then annually for ones extension. and it should get even simpler as time passes and things move online 

[FritsSikkink]

On 10/30/2024 at 11:09 AM, heiri007 said:

Interesting and well-deserved move for the migrants. Guess citizenship applications for expats working and living here for long-time remain stalled?

 

 

You can already apply.

[MalcolmB]

On 10/30/2024 at 11:09 AM, heiri007 said:

Guess citizenship applications for expats working and living here for long-time remain stalled?

Nah, we can get citizenship.

i am applying.

stop acting like a victim.

 

 

 

Edited November 1 by MalcolmB

[Nid_Noi]

On 10/30/2024 at 11:09 AM, heiri007 said:

Interesting and well-deserved move for the migrants. Guess citizenship applications for expats working and living here for long-time remain stalled?

 

 

Access to citizenship should be a reciprocal process between countries. Citizens of both countries involved should get the same privileges.

[Marco100]

It seems they need a specific group of migrants 

[Gecko]

On 10/30/2024 at 3:18 PM, TaoNow said:

For many years now, Thailand has had a declining birth rate.

 

There is (legitimate) concern that, at some point in the near future, Thailand's working-age population will begin to decline. 

 

Anyone on this Forum has seen the emerging effects of this at gas pumps, restaurants, domestic-help options, etc.

 

It is too late to try to reverse the modern Thai preference for small families and few children.

 

Thus, in order to meet the near-term labor-force demand and need for eldercare, it makes sense for the Thai government to ease the way for migrants from Myanmar, Laos, and Cambodia to help fill these gaps -- due to the migrants proximity, ethnic similarity to Thais, Buddhist religion, and shared indigenous customs (e.g., Songkram, etc.).

 

For those of these cross-border migrants who spend a significant time in Thailand and can assimilate to the local culture and customs, that investment in the Thai economy and culture might be a viable pathway to citizenship.

 

It is a trend that we will increasingly witness around the world as some countries have aging populations while their neighbors are still "young."

 on the other hand certain work that is now done by 5 people could be easily done by two. 

[black tabby12345]

Thailand's workforce will gradually shrink in the next 20-30 years;

due to their declining birthrate and aging population.

 

Thailand declining birthrate statistics - Google Search

 

So a kind of smart move to socially integrate migrant workers from the neighboring nations.

They are culturally, religiously (often Buddhists) close to the people of  this kingdom.

 

So won't be like those newly arrived  'refugees'  from Africa and Middle East  in Europe(often refuse to integrate into the society of their destination country).

 

Edited November 1 by black tabby12345

[harryviking]

I would say that if Thailand want to tax expats for their income where ever it is coming from, they have to give them citizenship and free healthcare! That is what civilized countries do to their citizens! If not, they have no damn right to tax you like they would do with a Thai Citizen. That is theft.

[madone]

On 10/30/2024 at 3:18 PM, TaoNow said:

Anyone on this Forum has seen the emerging effects of this at gas pumps, restaurants, domestic-help options

Is that because there are not enough thais to do the work, or because thais do not want to do that work?

many countries around the world face similar labour shortages, but often because the population sees those jobs as beneath them, leaving employers to fill in gaps with foreign workers. Of course that is when people begin to complain foreigners are taking the jobs they are unwilling to do,   

[arithai12]

4 hours ago, Bday Prang said:

Well if you are from the UK your Thai  wife would definitely not automatically get citizenship ( unless she arrived illegally on a small inflatable boat)

I wouldn't knock the Thai immigration requirements, its what western countries should be doing but are not !   Hardly too onerous to nip to immigration every 90 days, and then annually for ones extension. and it should get even simpler as time passes and things move online 

I agree on strict immigration rules. However, asking to get rid of yearly extensions, 90d, TM30, re-entries... seems only logical after you have been residing here with a good record for a number of years. They waste our time and theirs. I would not mind paying 5x more, once every 5 years. Simpler online... sure, then you wake up and it was just a dream.

[Nid_Noi]

3 hours ago, harryviking said:

I would say that if Thailand want to tax expats for their income where ever it is coming from, they have to give them citizenship and free healthcare! That is what civilized countries do to their citizens! If not, they have no damn right to tax you like they would do with a Thai Citizen. That is theft.

Taxation is not related to citizenship but to the fiscal residency. Usually 6 months + 1 day in a country makes you a resident of the country then liable to taxation. Otherwise everybody would be stateless and nobody would pay for infrastructure.

[Rob Browder]

11 hours ago, Bday Prang said:

I have not seen many childless families out here in the sticks, nor many with only one child.  they all seem to have 3 or 4  which they start popping out in their early teens, normally from different fathers

Great, then we don't have an 'aging population' problem, and it's not an issue.  Yet "authorities" tell us it is, for some reason.

 

6 hours ago, madone said:

Is that because there are not enough thais to do the work, or because thais do not want to do that work?

many countries around the world face similar labour shortages, but often because the population sees those jobs as beneath them, leaving employers to fill in gaps with foreign workers. Of course that is when people begin to complain foreigners are taking the jobs they are unwilling to do,   

Where "beneath them" is when there is a foreigner willing to do the job for dirt-poor pay.  We hear the same bull in the West, yet we did "those jobs" right up to the day the wages were cut over 50% by allowing foreign hiring.