Thailand's Expats Urged to Register with TRD for Tax, Says Expert

[webfact]

 

ASEAN NOW image composite for reference only

 

Tax expert Thomas Carden has advised expatriates residing in Thailand for 180 days or more in 2024 to obtain a tax identification number from the Thai Revenue Department (TRD).

 

Addressing members of the Pattaya City Expat Club, Carden emphasised the need for expatriates to register and submit tax forms by the first quarter of 2025, even if they believe they owe no tax, writes Barry Kenyon for Pattaya Mail.

 

Carden clarified that only overseas income transferred to Thailand is relevant for taxation. Issues like pre-taxed pensions and double taxation treaties should also be considered.

 

He warned that failing to register could lead to audits and potential penalties in the future. “If you delay, the financial penalty screws can become tighter and tighter,” he noted.

 

There has been some confusion at local revenue offices due to a lack of information from the TRD head office in Bangkok, making it challenging for expatriates to understand their obligations.

 

Carden advised using professional tax services to navigate the system, as most pensioners on savings may owe little or nothing. Supporting bank or tax documents are unnecessary when submitting the forms.

 

Reflecting on global trends, Carden mentioned that taxing foreign residents has become common worldwide, and it's essential to comply even if no income is remitted to Thailand. He reassured attendees that registration doesn't automatically mean payment is due.

 

Discussing potential changes to Thailand’s tax system, Carden mentioned the speculative nature of shifting from a residence-based tax system to one that includes worldwide income, which would require parliamentary approval.

 

He stressed that while personal income tax enforcement is imminent, it's vital to stay informed and proactive rather than ignore the situation, reported Pattaya Mail.

 

The issue applies to Thais receiving income from overseas as well, highlighting its broad impact.

 

-- 2024-11-07

 

 

[chiang mai]

Many of the statements are invalid or not justified, the TRD doesn't require anyone to obtain a TIN until specific criteria are met, not just tax residency but also remittance of assessable income. And completing a Thai tax form does not automatically mean paying for assistance, it's easily done by the average person or with some help from TRD staff.

[sungod]

Carden drumming up fear and just happens to have a tax advisory business........

 

 

[sqwakvfr]

IRS 1040 is used by TRD now? 

[chiang mai]

1 minute ago, sqwakvfr said:

IRS 1040 is used by TRD now? 

No, not unless the country has been annexed as the 51st state.

[UWEB]

Have tried to register, they just told me don't come back.

[chiang mai]

Just now, UWEB said:

Have tried to register, they just told me don't come back.

TRD has done a poor job of communicating to the regions on this, I think most people accept that is the case.

[gk10012001]

My first trip to the LOS was in 2004 when I was 47.  On the flight home I was outlining my investment strategy and my future plans as I steered my investments to earning the about $2000 USD a month income needed for the retirement visa extensions, etc.   when I got t 50 years old.  I was so enamored with the country.  I since have visited 15 times.  Each year retiring there options got stranger and required more hoops to jump through.  Initially the Retirement income Affidavit from the USA embassy was available.  Then the USA embassy stopped that.  The Elite Visa for convenience was looking good as I could easily afford that but then recently they raised that price and cut back the number of years the basic one was good for.  Now this tax thing.. which nobody knows for sure how that will work or what must be filed, or how disputes will be handled, what documents the Thais may want, IRS tax records, USA tax records and complete 1040 filing packages, how slot jackpots in the USA that were written off by losses , and how stock gains offset by losses will be handled, etc.  It all seems too complex country by country for the Thais to understand and process properly.  So in short now that I am semi retired, I simply won't be in Thailand for more than 180 days.  Not a horrible thing, but it puts a damper on the worth of renting a place for a continuous year for the discount.  Will see how things look next year

[Captain Flack]

A troll post has been removed.

[daveAustin]

1 hour ago, webfact said:

He stressed that while personal income tax enforcement is imminent, it's vital to stay informed and proactive rather than ignore the situation

I think I’ll wait, thanks. Certainly won’t be buying houses and cars again in the near future.  

[chiang mai]

1 minute ago, daveAustin said:

I think I’ll wait, thanks. Certainly won’t be buying houses and cars again in the near future.  

FWIW I agree that everyone should be proactive, but that doesn't mean rushing out to obtain a TIN or buying his or anyone else's tax services. Everyone should understand the issues as they relate to their particular unique  situation and calculate their own exposure to Thai tax using pen and paper. Set up a spread sheet and update it every month with your income and your TEDA and see what the end of the year position looks like, that's sensible.

[Aussie999]

Question 1... does saving count as income if transferred from overseas account into a Thai account.. technically savings are not income.

Question 2... how do you get around the 160 day limit.

[proton]

No thanks, and any tax return forms will go in the bin. No taxation without representation, or at least something back for it.

[JoePai]

Addressing members of the Pattaya City Expat Club, Carden emphasised the need for expatriates to register and submit tax forms by the first quarter of 2025, even if they believe they owe no tax, writes Barry Kenyon for Pattaya Mail.

 

This Carden(?) talks nonsense and Kenyon perpetuates it - ignore both

[ikke1959]

Paying tax is ok IF you get rights too... but now Thailand want to have tax from our income and assets overseas, and in the meanwhile they give nothing in return except double standards, no voting rights, no social security etc, while all imported goods are on very high tax, like wines and although they promised to lower the tax nothing happened yet since March. It is always a one way ticket in Thailand. I strongly believe after they chased the backpack tourists away and the people who could for one or another reason not apply for a long term visa, but contributed a lot to the Thai economy and families, now they want get rid of expats and retirees... 

This is not starting this year but already a long time the matter... Thailand doesn't look what is brought in but only how much money they can get out of you.

 

i once was at the immigration office several years ago and an elderly couple was at the desk and their visa could not be extended. The man had not enough money, but he told the immigration officer that he had bought a houseof 5 million, and furniture and a car, and paid it all and he told the officer he could not have 800k on a bank account anymore.... And the officer said it is the rule and the wife started to cry..... I don't know the end of the story as I was finished with my stuff, but it just an example of the shortsighted ideas in Thailand.. Children and grandchildren will come and visit the parents/grandparents and spend money here, good for tourism and economy, but Thailand only sees short term benefits and destroys everything on the long term

[quake]

2 hours ago, sungod said:

Carden drumming up fear and just happens to have a tax advisory business........

 

 

 Nail on the head.

[BritManToo]

Expat clubs are riddled with crooks trying to make money from elderly expats.

[CharlieH]

Didnt I read somewhere it was ILLEGAL for non Thai to give Tax advice about Thai Tax ?

[lordgrinz]

4 minutes ago, CharlieH said:

Didnt I read somewhere it was ILLEGAL for non Thai to give Tax advice about Thai Tax ?

 

Does that mean the RTP is coming for half the members on AN? 🤪

[Enzian]

It almost seems like the Thai attitude is that if there is a possibility of getting something for nothing (foreigner tax money in return for no extra rights or benefits) we might as well try it and see how it works out. It won't work out, no more than Ms Harris' fond hopes worked out. 

[EVENKEEL]

For expatriates in Thailand, the implications of a potential NIT system remain entirely speculative. The "crunch time," when such policies may come into effect, is still several years off, and any impacts on expats, if they occur, are yet to be determined.

 

Deputy Finance Minister Julapun Amornvivat's words here. I know who I would believe and it's not a scaremonger.

Edited November 7 by EVENKEEL

[Captain Flack]

A reported post breaking forum rules has been removed.

 

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[chiang mai]

37 minutes ago, CharlieH said:

Didnt I read somewhere it was ILLEGAL for non Thai to give Tax advice about Thai Tax ?

I don't believe that reiterating what the law says or reinforcing the need to abide by it, constitutes tax advice. 

[quake]

37 minutes ago, lordgrinz said:

 

Does that mean the RTP is coming for half the members on AN? 🤪

 No they are safe as it only covers factual advice.

Not the BS here. 

[watchcat]

3 hours ago, chiang mai said:

No, not unless the country has been annexed as the 51st state.

 

Will never happen.

[chiang mai]

Just now, watchcat said:

 

Will never happen.

You don't do sarcasm, we can tell!

[watchcat]

Just now, chiang mai said:

You don't do sarcasm, we can tell!

 

Correct.

[mfd101]

I have a TIN registered here in Prasat, Surin province. Forced upon me by my OZ bank as all banks increasingly everywhere are obliged by governments to conform to the internationally agreed rules..

 

I propose in February to visit the 2 helpful young ladies I dealt with at the local TRD, with my recently completed and approved Oz tax return for the Oz financial year July23-June24, plus the Oz/Thai double tax agreement (which - in tortured English - makes it (almost) clear that my Oz Federal Govt superannuation can be taxed only in Oz).

 

All in English. They will need to check their Thai version of the DTA and we'll see how things head on from there ...

 

I'm expecting that (1) if they can cope with the workload, the result will be 'Go away & don't come back, ever' or (2) if they can't cope with the workload, the result will be 'It's all too hard, go away & don't come back, ever'.

[chiang mai]

2 minutes ago, mfd101 said:

I have a TIN registered here in Prasat, Surin province. Forced upon me by my OZ bank as all banks increasingly everywhere are obliged by governments to conform to the internationally agreed rules..

 

I propose in February to visit the 2 helpful young ladies I dealt with at the local TRD, with my recently completed and approved Oz tax return for the Oz financial year July23-June24, plus the Oz/Thai double tax agreement (which - in tortured English - makes it (almost) clear that my Oz Federal Govt superannuation can be taxed only in Oz).

 

All in English. They will need to check their Thai version of the DTA and we'll see how things head on from there ...

 

I'm expecting that (1) if they can cope with the workload, the result will be 'Go away & don't come back, ever' or (2) if they can't cope with the workload, the result will be 'It's all too hard, go away & don't come back, ever'.

If you have only exempt income, you don't need to file a tax return. In that case, I wonder why you're putting yourself through the ordeal of trying to get TRD approval of what you already know to be true. I imagine you see that as a safety check and that if the wheel comes off later, you can always point back to your meeting with the TRD staff and claim they signed off on things. The problem with that is that audits are initiated by Region, not by District and you almost certainly are dealing with District or lower. In an absolute worst case scenario, if push came to shove, I don't know how helpful or useful your two friendly ladies would be.

 

I think if I was in your shoes, I'd not do anything, as long as I was confident I understood that my income was exempt. But I also understand that you may wish to take a different approach, which is fair enough.

[mfd101]

9 minutes ago, chiang mai said:

I also understand that you may wish to take a different approach, which is fair enough.

I spent most of my working life as a bureaucrat in Canberra. Precision & safety before all.