Called at the Chonburi Taxation office

[jvs]

On 11/20/2024 at 6:16 PM, Moonlover said:

I'm waiting, with baited breath to hear how many others are rushing to TRD offices around the country.

 

This taxation business came up, for the very first time on a local forum up here in NE Issan last week. Nobody knew anything about it! So I'm guessing there won't be a stampede around here.

 

Funny,i was in the accountants office this morning and i asked him about it.

He had just talked to the manager of the local tax office and she told him ,"nobody knows"

The advice i got is,just sit and wait.

[klauskunkel]

11 hours ago, Jingthing said:

Great input but I would draw the line at showing some sack. 

The Foreign Sack Tax Act is being proposed by the Finance Ministry.

[chang50]

I went to  Jomtien tax office with the missus back in April and was told to come back at the end of the year with a yearly bank statement if I wanted  a TIN.

Felt stupid for following the rules...

 

 

 

 

[john donson]

unless IMMIGRATION makes it a deal breaker, to not get extension, they can stuff it

[Presnock]

On 11/20/2024 at 11:12 PM, JimTripper said:

Fuk 'em. Lay low until you are forced to go in. That way at least you will have the satisfaction of knowing they are doing something right.

Yessir, until the Thai revenue department/govt puts out any NEW rules or regulations or new laws stating something different from the current laws I will not be participating in obtaining a Thai Tax number nor even thinking about filing a tax form.  I may get a call from the revenue department wanting to know about my remittances to which I will gladly respond.  good luck to all, at least after today we should know if the current govt is still leading.

[PBob]

This years tax rules will only become clear when some people are processed by their local tax office.

 

I expect to see posts here next year from people saying...

1. They filed and no problem or it was a nightmare.

2. They did not file and were audited or not audited.

3. DTA meant that no Thai tax due or additional Thai tax was payable. UK example: you take a lump sum from your SIPP of which 25% is tax free would Thailand want to tax this if transferred here?

 

Remember TIT you plqce your bet and spun the wheel 

 

[PBob]

Forgot to mention do not rely on the Thai government not knowing about you. They are getting very good at pulling information together about you.

Shocked at the information held about my wife in the 'Tang Rat' appication, driving licence, insurance, medical, financial etc

[Yumthai]

14 hours ago, Neeranam said:

Or use WISE as a bank. 

Needs back up. Using only Wise or some EMI for banking is not sustainable, many reports mentioning Wise is freezing/closing accounts at will.

[Thingamabob]

On 11/20/2024 at 11:05 PM, Jingthing said:

For the record, for those of us who are tax resident, don't work here or have a business in Thailand, who haven't filed a tax return before in Thailand, I personally think it's a massive folly and basically asking for trouble to go out of your way to get into the tax system here by applying for a TIN at this time.

At a later date, perhaps years from now, things might be different but that's my opinion for NOW and yes I know that many people will vehemently disagree with me. 

Very well said.

[Thingamabob]

On 11/20/2024 at 10:02 PM, billd766 said:

I first read about it on AN months ago when Mike Lister first started the thread.

Be aware that there are those amongst us who are pushing tax issues in order to feather their own nest.

[chiang mai]

6 minutes ago, Thingamabob said:

Be aware that there are those amongst us who are pushing tax issues in order to feather their own nest.

Do tell us more please?

[chiang mai]

On 11/20/2024 at 6:16 PM, Moonlover said:

 

This taxation business came up, for the very first time on a local forum up here in NE Issan last week. Nobody knew anything about it! So I'm guessing there won't be a stampede around here.

 

This should come as little surprise, the further away you are from Bangkok, the less people understand about current events and the worse communication is between organisations that are headquartered in Bangkok. Is it any wonder that people who have asked questions at their TRD branch in Nakon Nowhere have been met with very different answers.

[quake]

On 11/20/2024 at 10:52 AM, Delight said:

This office is located in Jomtien.

Just called in for information 

The 1st stage is to obtain a TIN (Taxation Identity  Number)

For this copies of passport entries are required plus a TM30

English -it seems is not spoken here.

 

So you never got a TIN.

Excellent post.

Government officials say and do different things depending on,

what day of the week it is.

Yawn. 

 

 

[chiang mai]

16 hours ago, 0ffshore360 said:

Not a red herring !

If  staying in Thailand 180 or more days in a tax year  and remitting funds  that are  taxed at source exempts the need for tax residency declaration. It is only extraneous income that will be of interest to both ends of a DTR .

Immigration systems  may be poorly integrated  but integrated financial systems are constantly being upgraded.

Homicides attract less penalty than tax evasion !

No it does not.

[chiang mai]

On 11/20/2024 at 10:52 AM, Delight said:

This office is located in Jomtien.

Just called in for information 

The 1st stage is to obtain a TIN (Taxation Identity  Number)

 

For this copies of passport entries are required plus a TM30

 

English -it seems is not spoken here.

 

 

 

"The department operates 12 regional revenue offices, 119 area revenue offices, and 850 area revenue branch offices throughout the country as well as 14 bureaus at its headquarters". 

 

Area offices are not always large but Jomtien appears to be larger than most. I will be very very surprised if there are no English speaking staff there.

[chiang mai]

On 11/20/2024 at 11:05 PM, Jingthing said:

For the record, for those of us who are tax resident, don't work here or have a business in Thailand, who haven't filed a tax return before in Thailand, I personally think it's a massive folly and basically asking for trouble to go out of your way to get into the tax system here by applying for a TIN at this time.

At a later date, perhaps years from now, things might be different but that's my opinion for NOW and yes I know that many people will vehemently disagree with me. 

I'm in a different situation because I already have a TIN and have filed tax returns here previously. But hand on heart, if I was tax resident here and had over 60k of assessable income, I cannot imagine a downside to filing, only to not filing, potentially at some later date. If you think by not filing you remain hidden, you need a reality check. But hey, each to their own.

[Yumthai]

3 hours ago, chiang mai said:

This should come as little surprise, the further away you are from Bangkok, the less people understand about current events and the worse communication is between organisations that are headquartered in Bangkok. Is it any wonder that people who have asked questions at their TRD branch in Nakon Nowhere have been met with very different answers.

In your opinion how many TRD branches (%) nationwide are aware and will implement the new tax rules?

Should tax residents remitting foreign sourced income be wise to move to Nakon Nowhere in order to not being bothered with tax filing?

[chiang mai]

2 minutes ago, Yumthai said:

In your opinion how many TRD branches (%) nationwide are aware and will implement the new tax rules?

Should tax residents remitting foreign sourced income be wise to move to Nakon Nowhere in order to not being bothered with tax filing?

That depends on what happens between now and filing season, along with the level of risk each person wants to take.

 

Gamblers will say the whole thing will be cancelled and laugh with gay abandon whilst calling the rest of us  a named used to refer to young cats.

 

Low risk tolerance people will file a return, if so required by their circumstances.

 

Those with greater risk tolerance may hope they get and remain lucky and not file, this year at least.

 

The number of branches that implement the new tax rule will be the same as the number that are made aware of it, I don't think it's at the branch discretion.

 

Sensibly, most people will wait until say January to decide.

 

I can think of many positive reasons to move to Nakon Nowhere but to escape filing a tax return isn't one of them.

 

 

[Yumthai]

7 minutes ago, chiang mai said:

The number of branches that implement the new tax rule will be the same as the number that are made aware of it, I don't think it's at the branch discretion.

 

I can think of many positive reasons to move to Nakon Nowhere but to escape filing a tax return isn't one of them.

As it seems you have no clue or don't want to answer I'll reformulate: Should tax residents living in Nakon Nowhere be wise to move to a location where TRD branch complies with the new tax rules and where they will be able for sure to file a tax return?

[sometimewoodworker]

On 11/21/2024 at 12:25 PM, Jingthing said:

On 11/21/2024 at 12:07 PM, Delight said:

The problem with that approach is that they may prosecute me>

I might be struck by lightning.

Don’t live around here, in a village of about 400 one person was struck recently. So a 1 in 400 chance? Not good odds!

[Presnock]

19 hours ago, jvs said:

Funny,i was in the accountants office this morning and i asked him about it.

He had just talked to the manager of the local tax office and she told him ,"nobody knows"

The advice i got is,just sit and wait.

I think that I and about a hundred others offered that same advice months ago.  Now though that it appears that the current government will remain for a while perhaps they other offices will actually put out some information on any taxation schemes beyond that of remittances of the 2024.  best of luck.

 

8 hours ago, john donson said:

unless IMMIGRATION makes it a deal breaker, to not get extension, they can stuff it

Believe in the poll on this issue, the majority of expats that remain here feel the same way.  I plan to do NOTHING unless there is a law change.

[Presnock]

7 hours ago, Presnock said:

Yessir, until the Thai revenue department/govt puts out any NEW rules or regulations or new laws stating something different from the current laws I will not be participating in obtaining a Thai Tax number nor even thinking about filing a tax form.  I may get a call from the revenue department wanting to know about my remittances to which I will gladly respond.  good luck to all, at least after today we should know if the current govt is still leading.

Seems Thaksin has some pull with the Constitutional Court too as they say they can't call him in so that case against the current leaders is null and void.

[chiang mai]

45 minutes ago, Yumthai said:

As it seems you have no clue or don't want to answer I'll reformulate: Should tax residents living in Nakon Nowhere be wise to move to a location where TRD branch complies with the new tax rules and where they will be able for sure to file a tax return?

Go bait somebody else.

[Lorry]

10 hours ago, chiang mai said:

 

"The department operates 12 regional revenue offices, 119 area revenue offices, and 850 area revenue branch offices throughout the country as well as 14 bureaus at its headquarters". 

 

Area offices are not always large but Jomtien appears to be larger than most. I will be very very surprised if there are no English speaking staff there.

My Regional Revenue Office can more or less muddle through with English, at the level of a waitress 30 years ago. 

 

In the Area Revenue Office, no English.

 

(Both in Central Bangkok, in areas with lots of foreigners).

BTW the existence of the Regional Revenue Office is not known in the Area Revenue Office. When shown name and address of the Regional Revenue Office, staff at the Area Revenue Office had no idea what kind of place that might be.

 

[chiang mai]

6 hours ago, Lorry said:

My Regional Revenue Office can more or less muddle through with English, at the level of a waitress 30 years ago. 

 

In the Area Revenue Office, no English.

 

(Both in Central Bangkok, in areas with lots of foreigners).

BTW the existence of the Regional Revenue Office is not known in the Area Revenue Office. When shown name and address of the Regional Revenue Office, staff at the Area Revenue Office had no idea what kind of place that might be.

 

Wow. 

 

In Chiang Mai, the District Office staff are well aware of the Regional Office and also of the pecking order!

 

Plus several staff speak a reasonable level of conversational English.

[oldcpu]

On 11/21/2024 at 2:27 PM, NanLaew said:

 

For the record, I am married and living but not working in Thailand.

 

My UK offshore bank requires me to prove that I am non-UK tax domiciled by presenting them with a TIN from the revenue department of the country where I claim I am domiciled. The reality of "I am not liable for taxation anywhere" is no longer an option and results in the account being either 'resticted' or closed.

 

The UK offshore bank's KYC (know your customer) regulations are driven by their requirment to comply with the edicts of the US banking industry while Thailand's latest tax grab is driven by their wish to become a full member of the OECD.

 

Catch 22

 

If you have a yellow book and a pink ID you could give them your pink ID number with the added caveat that it hasn't been activated yet as your tax ID.

 

That is what I did for a couple Canadian financial institutions and that worked OK.

 

Prior to doing that I applied for a tax ID and was refused. The Thai RD official advised me my pink ID # could be my tax ID only after it was activated.  .. So what I provided to the Canadian financial institutions was accurate. 

[NanLaew]

On 11/21/2024 at 5:11 PM, anrcaccount said:

 

Not really a Catch 22 , just standard banking KYC. There are multiple ways to approach this. Let me give you 3: 

 

• You can get a TIN ( agents start at 3000 THB for the service or you can try yourself) , and then provide it to your UK offshore Bank. That doesn't mean you need to pay any tax in Thailand, nor that you are liable for any tax. 
• You can give your UK offshore bank any 13 digit number as your TIN. They will not do any validation on it. I'm not recommending this, but I do believe it would be possible, and IMO would be no further questions asked.
• Some foreign banks will also accept 'Am tax resident but do not yet have a Tax number'. Yours may not, but many do. 

 

 

I gave them my alien ID number (from yellow tibian bahn and pink ID card). Depending on the horse coming before or after the cart, that could/would be my TIN if/when I get one.

 

Since this bank always ends all communictaions with a comment that further information may be needed in the future (they have never, ever said that the matter is closed to everyone's satisfaction , thanks), giving them a fake number seems like a quicker way of kicking the can a shorther distance down the road.

 

I did manage to keep them happy for a spell by telling them that I am retired here, not eligible for employment and thus not required to have a local TIN. About a year later, they came back and haunted me again as this bank doesn't accept that you can be still living and breathing and not paying tax somewhere: all with the non-compliance resulting in the account being either restricted or closed. I guess they are stuck on the notion that any and all income is either taxable or liable for assessement of being otherwise.

[NanLaew]

 

<double post>

[NanLaew]

<triple post!>

[NanLaew]

9 hours ago, chiang mai said:

Wow. 

 

In Chiang Mai, the District Office staff are well aware of the Regional Office and also of the pecking order!

 

Plus several staff speak a reasonable level of conversational English.

 

Wow.

 

That must be awfuly handy for the preponderance of farangs who can't speak the local lingo up there.