BREAKING NEWS British lawyer latest to fall in Laos alcohol poisoning tragedy

[Cabradelmar]

52 minutes ago, HK MacPhooey said:

The first of the ‘holier than lao’ (no pun intended) posts

No, not at all. Drink as much as you like. It's your liver and brain cells. IDK. But to die for it is just sad on multiple levels. And it's the proliferation of bootleggers and unregulated distilleries in poor countries (the world over) that will just as soon kill you as look at you. But you go to Laos and drink you some Lao home brew vodka. Good luck.

[placnx]

1 hour ago, Cabradelmar said:

Another great reason to not drink alcohol (particularly in the poorest counties). Manufactured death all for the sake of making more money off tourists obsession with alcohol 

Play it safe and drink beer from a bottle.

[hotchilli]

3 hours ago, webfact said:

The hostel manager told the press that the ill-fated night began with free shots of local Lao vodka, dispensed generously to more than 100 guests. The manager insisted that no other incidents were reported, as he fervently hoped for the hostel’s name to be cleared. Yet, free shots have been axed for the foreseeable future.

Free shots are one thing, but where did this boot-leg killer potion come from?

Was someone else in the crowd giving out illicit drinks?

[mokwit]

Alternative hypotheses; Vodka apparently served to 100 guests but only 5 have problems - those 5 are young blond women (no?). Somebody spiked their drinks with alcohol that was actually methanol probably thinking to take advantage of them when they were intoxicated.

 

It must have been a hell of a dose to kill that quickly. Methylated spirits causes people to keel over backwards before they can drink that much, but do it repeatedly and the optic nerve is damaged.

Edited 5 hours ago by mokwit

[Chomper Higgot]

24 minutes ago, JonnyF said:

 

An interesting but predictable strawman to add to your initial irrelevant post.

 

You're on a roll.

 

Maybe you can look up the Southport massacre thread and post "A tragic example to show the importance of murder laws". 

It’s not a Strawman Jonny, it’s the logic of the argument you yourself made.

 

 Nice attempt at wedging an off topic distraction, sorry Jonny I’m not biting.

[kingstonkid]

1 hour ago, TofuHead said:

How come most of the victims are female?  Are men more resistant to methanol?

 

The reason that they are all lovely-looking young ladies is self-evident and a good place to start.

 

Some pervert or demented soul thinks he could get them drunk and then take advantage of them, or he actually did, and we do not hear about that part.

 

Time will tell, but you can be guaranteed that the Laos government will be looking into it or find itself on the astay away list of every website known.  

 

[Kerryd]

In Thailand they prefer to dose the booze with Insecticide.

Remember the incident(s) in (Phuket ?) where two female tourists were found dead in their hotel room, no signs of foul play (i.e. not beaten/raped/stabbed).

Someone pretended that maybe the room had been heavily fumigated but that's not likely. I know what a heavily fumigated room/container is like and have never seen anyone in Thailand that would waste money spraying a room for bugs, let alone with enough insecticide to be lethal to humans as well.

But they had been drinking at a bar well known for it's "bucket drinks" - filled with alcohol and who knows what but said to also quite often include insecticide as an extra "boost" (that's cheap, easy to obtain and not regulated even in the slightest).

But that's the trade off for going to a warm, tropical country that is also (usually) a cheap vacation spot. Low - or no - standards and even less enforcement of existing standards.

That's how they get away with chaining and locking emergency exits and fire doors in Condos and nightclubs.
Or using unlicensed, barely trained welders/electricians who end up causing fires that spread through ceiling material that is not even remotely fire retardant because the "good stuff" costs money !

Or sell booze that may have "suspicious" origins. (Sheesh, even my Thai friends are super wary about buying Regency brandy because of all the fake stuff being sold.)

I was joking with a friend about what would happen if a "health inspector" from Canada (or other western country) were to come to Thailand and try eating at some local "restaurants". A minute later we saw a rat scramble across the floor and climb a nearby tree while you could see cockroaches trying to climb out of the sewer grate 3 meters away.

(I said the "inspector" would probably throw up, run away and have a heart-attack, not necessarily in that order.)

[JonnyF]

1 minute ago, Chomper Higgot said:

It’s not a Strawman Jonny, it’s the logic of the argument you yourself made.

 

 Nice attempt at wedging an off topic distraction, sorry Jonny I’m not biting.

 

It's a strawman.

 

Nobody is saying scrap all regulations. I am saying that Laos already has regulations regarding the production of alcohol but guess what, criminal bootleggers do not follow them. Create thousands more if you like, they still won't follow them.

 

The only off topic distraction was you trying to shoehorn your political agenda of ever increasingly stringent rules/regulations into this tragic case of the death of 3 young women.  

 

 

[Purdey]

I am surprised not to hear of any Laotian dying of methanol poisoning if it is a common practice in Laos. Difficult to believe it happened in one hotel only. 

[Andrew Dwyer]

15 minutes ago, mokwit said:

Alternative hypotheses; Vodka apparently served to 100 guests but only 5 have problems - those 5 are young blond women (no?). Somebody spiked their drinks with alcohol that was actually methanol probably thinking to take advantage of them when they were intoxicated.

 

It must have been a hell of a dose to kill that quickly. Methylated spirits causes people to keel over backwards before they can drink that much, but do it repeatedly and the optic nerve is damaged.

No

From the op.

”  reports emerged from the US State Department about the death of anAmerican man in the same tourist hotspot, Vang Vieng.“

[mokwit]

9 minutes ago, Andrew Dwyer said:

No

From the op.

”  reports emerged from the US State Department about the death of anAmerican man in the same tourist hotspot, Vang Vieng.“

Ah OK, but maybe his drink was spiked in error or he picked up the wrong one.

[Chomper Higgot]

15 minutes ago, JonnyF said:

 

It's a strawman.

 

Nobody is saying scrap all regulations. I am saying that Laos already has regulations regarding the production of alcohol but guess what, criminal bootleggers do not follow them. Create thousands more if you like, they still won't follow them.

 

The only off topic distraction was you trying to shoehorn your political agenda of ever increasingly stringent rules/regulations into this tragic case of the death of 3 young women.  

 

 

Jonny, the very first mention of politics in this thread was from you.

 

The regulation of food and drink for safety reasons is not a political issue, regardless of your attempts to make it so.

[Chomper Higgot]

Just now, mokwit said:

Ah OK, but maybe his drink was spiked in error or he picked up the wrong one.

That’s the problem with speculating, you need to keep adjusting your imagined scenario as facts are presented that undermine it.

[JonnyF]

Just now, Chomper Higgot said:

Jonny, the very first mention of politics in this thread was from you.

 

The regulation of food and drink for safety reasons is not a political issue, regardless of your attempts to make it so.

 

So why mention the importance of regulations.

 

Were you under the impression Laos does not have regulations for alcohol production?

[shackleton]

Yes agree with some posts not something young backpackers need on holiday 

They just want to enjoy their time with others 

Hopefully this will be resolved soon and the quilty ones prosecuted 

 

[Lopburikid]

2 hours ago, smedly said:

I hope those responsible are held to account, this is a very alarming situation, I think I'll give Laos a miss

I was thinking the same about Laos Christmas tourism maybe severely hit. is getting  similar to the cyanide killings in Thailand. R.I.P to all the victims take at such a young age, and condolences to all the families.

[Chomper Higgot]

Just now, JonnyF said:

 

So why mention the importance of regulations.

 

Were you under the impression Laos does not have regulations for alcohol production?

Because regulations prevent this kind of tragedy happening elsewhere.

A regulation that is not enforced is pointless, I think you can work that out.

 

[mokwit]

8 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

That’s the problem with speculating, you need to keep adjusting your imagined scenario as facts are presented that undermine it.

Not if it is just one vs 5, that could easily be due to error. If it were two vs 5 I would have ruled out accident. If it were 5 females and 5 males I would not have suspected what I did. Your accusation is baseless and you clearly have no deductive reasoning power, just spout slogans.

Edited 5 hours ago by mokwit

[Chomper Higgot]

Just now, mokwit said:

Not if it is just one vs 5. If it were two I would ruled out accident. Your accusation is baseless.

It’s not an accusation Mokwit, it’s an observation of you doing exactly what I dated.

 

Adjusting your imagined scenario to fit new facts (that were actually already available but you somehow missed).

 

 

[mokwit]

10 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

It’s not an accusation Mokwit, it’s an observation of you doing exactly what I dated.

 

Adjusting your imagined scenario to fit new facts (that were actually already available but you somehow missed).

 

 

No it is an understanding of the laws of chance, or are you suggesting that nobody ever picks up the wrong drink, especially when they are likely identical to look at?. See my edited version that I completed before I saw you had replied.

 

What I am saying is if it is one vs 5 we can't rule out wrong drink picked up.

 

 

Are you saying there is no chance somebody picked up the wrong drink in this environment.

 

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-14111525/Laos-methanol-poisoning-victims-drugs-spiking.html

 

 

 

Edited 4 hours ago by mokwit

[Andrew Dwyer]

4 minutes ago, mokwit said:

Not if it is just one vs 5, that could easily be due to error. If it were two vs 5 I would have ruled out accident. If it were 5 females and 10 makes I would not have suspected what I did. Your accusation is baseless and you clearly have no deductive reasoning power, just spout slogans.

What if it was 1 male v 4 female, what would your deductive reasoning power tell you then ……. to keep digging ?

[mokwit]

32 minutes ago, Andrew Dwyer said:

What if it was 1 male v 4 female, what would your deductive reasoning power tell you then ……. to keep digging ?

It's not that it is four, it is that if it just the one person who is not a young woman with blond hair, then you can't rule out accident. It just seems a remarkable coincidence that 5 out of 6 victimes were young women with blond hair rather than a mix of M/F black/blond hair etc.

 

The lower the size of the homogeneous group "blonde women" vs 1 male the less you would think it was a drink picked up in error, 1:1 you couldn't draw any conclusion, same with 2 or 3, intuitively by 4 it starts to look a bit suspicious. If it was one male and 500 blond females you could quite reasonably suspect picked up spiked drink by mistake.

 

remember those stories about a certain Island we can't name where young drunk women were "helpfully" escorted back to their hotel by the young men of the island. There was also the photo of the shed with a mattress in it on the way.

 

Am I able to come down to your level with that?

Edited 4 hours ago by mokwit

[BKKBike09]

RIP to those poor people.

 

Vang Vieng has become a version of Koh Phangnan / Koh Tao / Khaosan Road all rolled into one. Sadly, rich people in Laos also have the same level of immunity as their Thai counterparts. Perhaps more so because many of them have got rich through tight links with certain ministers / Politburo members, rather than through general biz.

 

[brewsterbudgen]

5 minutes ago, BKKBike09 said:

RIP to those poor people.

 

Vang Vieng has become a version of Koh Phangnan / Koh Tao / Khaosan Road all rolled into one. Sadly, rich people in Laos also have the same level of immunity as their Thai counterparts. Perhaps more so because many of them have got rich through tight links with certain ministers / Politburo members, rather than through general biz.

 

Indeed.  The corruption in Laos is even worse than in Thailand!

[Chomper Higgot]

26 minutes ago, mokwit said:

No it is an understanding of the laws of chance, or are you suggesting that nobody ever picks up the wrong drink, especially when they are likely identical to look at?. See my edited version that I completed before I saw you had replied.

 

What I am saying is if it is one vs 5 we can't rule out wrong drink picked up.

 

 

Are you saying there is no chance somebody picked up the wrong drink in this environment.

 

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-14111525/Laos-methanol-poisoning-victims-drugs-spiking.html

 

 

 

No I’m not suggesting anything of the sort, nor am I speculating.

 

 

[mokwit]

4 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

No I’m not suggesting anything of the sort, nor am I speculating.

 

 

There's really no point in trying to have a discussion with you and your tactics is there Chomper?

 

FYI scientific methodology is speculation, you start with an unproven hypotheses and try and knock it down. Speculation is how conclusions can be drawn.

 

It's all tactics with you, isn't it? Here is a summary for the benefit of the board.

Edited 4 hours ago by mokwit

[Chomper Higgot]

3 minutes ago, mokwit said:

There's really no point in trying to have a discussion with you and your tactics is there Chomper?

 

Here is a summary for the benefit of the board.

Oh, a ripped meme.

 

Sorry for pointing out you are speculating.

 

 

[mokwit]

4 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

Oh, a ripped meme.

 

Sorry for pointing out you are speculating.

 

 

Absolutely 100% I am speculating, because in the absence of all the facts that is all we can do. It is called a HYPOTHESES. what do you think detectives do? They might form a hypotheses on the information to hand.

 

Again: FYI scientific methodology is speculation, you start with an unproven hypotheses and try and knock it down. Speculation is how conclusions can be drawn.

 

Anyway I have had enough of trying to have a reasonable discussion with someone with your personality profile.

 

I'll bid you Good Day, sir

 

 

Edited 4 hours ago by mokwit

[BigStar]

2 minutes ago, mokwit said:

Absolutely 100% I am speculating, because in the absence of all the facts that is all we can do.

 

And, after all, it's true. 🙂 

 

[Chomper Higgot]

5 minutes ago, mokwit said:

Absolutely 100% I am speculating, because in the absence of all the facts that is all we can do. It is called a HYPOTHESES. what do you think detectives do? They might form a hypotheses on the information to hand.

 

Again: FYI scientific methodology is speculation, you start with an unproven hypotheses and try and knock it down. Speculation is how conclusions can be drawn.

 

Anyway I have had enough of trying to have a reasonable discussion with someone with your personality profile.

 

I'll bid you Good Day, sir

 

 

That’s a rather Dandy flounce.