American Exceptionalism: Reality or Just a Myth?

[sqwakvfr]

7 hours ago, NanLaew said:

 

Excellent example, thanks.

 

Now he can press on with America's unique trait of military exceptionalism. He who has most guns wins.

 

I would have thought the Navy SEALS would have been more indicative of success but he probably can't swim well enough.

Actually Green Berets have to be sxcellents swimmers as well.  How do you know he does not swim well? Did you ASS U ME this becasue he is of African descent?

[Ben Zioner]

13 hours ago, Walker88 said:

Personally, I do not think it survives the next four years as a single, united unit, but breaks down in a combination of social upheaval and perhaps even a number of States seceding, a la 1860, albeit this time for freedom, not to oppress on the basis of skin color.

Was thinking about re-watching the Handmaid's tale, before the last season comes out...

[mdr224]

Who else is going to lead the world? Europeans here are too busy comparing themselves to americans to catch up much

[HappyExpat57]

Right after WW II, the US launched a program called the GI Bill which provided education for all former military members, and even then college was affordable. If you had a part time job and lived frugally, you could put yourself through college and still afford a basic, decent standard of living. Corporate tax rates were around 90% with generous tax breaks for corporations to help with things like infrastructure.

 

https://www.wolterskluwer.com/en/expert-insights/whole-ball-of-tax-historical-income-tax-rates

 

A family could afford to buy a home and send their kids to nice private schools on one income - if they were white. The blacks were still very oppressed and provided a lot of labor for little pay. These conditions created the greatest middle class ever seen, and the US truly was exceptional at that time.

 

Since then, education has become so ridiculously expensive that it is out of reach unless you want to place yourself in a lifetime of debt or come from wealth. Add to this mix corporate greed which has nearly eliminated the middle class and continues to chip away at it. The best way to control a nation is to create a ruling class and a subservient class, do away entirely with middle class. Keep the masses ignorant and desperate just to maintain a living so they aren't aware as the yoke slowly tightens around their necks.

 

The US is the wealthiest nation in the written history of the planet, but statistics show it's failing in these categories:

 

Healthcare

The Commonwealth Fund found that the U.S. ranks last overall among 10 high-income countries in health system performance. 

Immigration

The Partnership for New York City found that the U.S. is falling behind in the global race for talent due to its immigration policies. 

Education

A 2015 Pew Research Center report found that only 29 percent of Americans rated K-12 education in science, technology, engineering and mathematics as above average or the best in the world. 

Infrastructure

The American Society of Civil Engineers gave the United States' infrastructure a D+ grade for 2017. 

Paid leave

The United States is the only developed country that doesn't guarantee paid maternity leave, paid vacation time, or paid sick days. 

Travel

The U.S. ranks unfavorably in terms of the number of countries it permits for visa-free travel.

 

The US also has the highest incarceration rate and the largest number of prisoners in the world.

 

It used to be exceptional, now that's fading into a myth. If you haven't already done so, watch "Idiocracy." It explains everything.

[HappyExpat57]

1 hour ago, Ben Zioner said:

Was thinking about re-watching the Handmaid's tale, before the last season comes out...

Better do it before The White Christian Nationalists put it on a "banned" list just like they've done with books.

[KhunLA]

Every country has it pros & cons, almost all provide opportunities, you just have to seize them.   More than a few countries, I'm pretty sure I wouldn't want to be born there.

 

Ignorant nationalism certainly isn't limited to the USA.   You simply have to live with your choices.   I always state USA is a land of opportunity, since I was always able to work (30+ jobs 🙄) and easily provide from myself, on a limited 'formal' education, and being a LPOS.

 

Last job was decent (13 yrs) and last the 10 yrs of that, probably why I lasted so long, I worked 2 long days a week.  2 on and 5 off to use for my own interest, play or invest my time.  Retired at 45, so hard to say the opportunity isn't there for everyone, if I can do it.  I actually thought it was quite easy.

 

Have the same opinion of TH, though I'm certainly glad I wasn't born here.  Wife's family are all self sufficient, most retired early, educated or not.  Same as USA, I see many struggle, dealt a bad hand, or LPOS, and many applied themselves and are doing just fine.

 

A country is just a location, and you can fall for the propaganda or not.  I listen to non Yanks go on about how good their country is, and yet, they live here/TH, physically, or on the internet.  Can't be that F'g good, and most, I doubt if I'd want to live in, as had my choice to live anywhere I wanted.

 

And I chose Thailand ... nuff said

and ... WTF was I thinkin'  

[NanLaew]

4 hours ago, sqwakvfr said:

Actually Green Berets have to be sxcellents swimmers as well.  How do you know he does not swim well? Did you ASS U ME this becasue he is of African descent?

 

Well yes, of course I made up my post based on classic African stereotypes.

 

Now, what's your excuse for copy/pasting something you saw on your Internet affirmation chamber and believing it verbatim?

[sqwakvfr]

40 minutes ago, NanLaew said:

 

Well yes, of course I made up my post based on classic African stereotypes.

 

Now, what's your excuse for copy/pasting something you saw on your Internet affirmation chamber and believing it verbatim?

1) I don't have an "excuse"

2) The greatest soldier I ever knew was SFC Walter Goss-US Army Green Beret.RIP. 

3) where is this "internet" affirmatioin chamer? Is is like "the Dark Web"?

 

[sqwakvfr]

1 hour ago, HappyExpat57 said:

Right after WW II, the US launched a program called the GI Bill which provided education for all former military members, and even then college was affordable. If you had a part time job and lived frugally, you could put yourself through college and still afford a basic, decent standard of living. Corporate tax rates were around 90% with generous tax breaks for corporations to help with things like infrastructure.

 

https://www.wolterskluwer.com/en/expert-insights/whole-ball-of-tax-historical-income-tax-rates

 

A family could afford to buy a home and send their kids to nice private schools on one income - if they were white. The blacks were still very oppressed and provided a lot of labor for little pay. These conditions created the greatest middle class ever seen, and the US truly was exceptional at that time.

 

Since then, education has become so ridiculously expensive that it is out of reach unless you want to place yourself in a lifetime of debt or come from wealth. Add to this mix corporate greed which has nearly eliminated the middle class and continues to chip away at it. The best way to control a nation is to create a ruling class and a subservient class, do away entirely with middle class. Keep the masses ignorant and desperate just to maintain a living so they aren't aware as the yoke slowly tightens around their necks.

 

The US is the wealthiest nation in the written history of the planet, but statistics show it's failing in these categories:

 

Healthcare

The Commonwealth Fund found that the U.S. ranks last overall among 10 high-income countries in health system performance. 

Immigration

The Partnership for New York City found that the U.S. is falling behind in the global race for talent due to its immigration policies. 

Education

A 2015 Pew Research Center report found that only 29 percent of Americans rated K-12 education in science, technology, engineering and mathematics as above average or the best in the world. 

Infrastructure

The American Society of Civil Engineers gave the United States' infrastructure a D+ grade for 2017. 

Paid leave

The United States is the only developed country that doesn't guarantee paid maternity leave, paid vacation time, or paid sick days. 

Travel

The U.S. ranks unfavorably in terms of the number of countries it permits for visa-free travel.

 

The US also has the highest incarceration rate and the largest number of prisoners in the world.

 

It used to be exceptional, now that's fading into a myth. If you haven't already done so, watch "Idiocracy." It explains everything.

I know it's bad but why do so many still want to come? No one seems to be able to answer as to why so many from many parts of the world want to enter such an awful place?  Canada or Mexico seem like paradise compared to the USA.

[jas007]

5 minutes ago, sqwakvfr said:

I know it's bad but why do so many still want to come? No one seems to be able to answer as to why so many from many parts of the world want to enter such an awful place?  Canada or Mexico seem like paradise compared to the USA.

It doesn't have to be awful.  Everything is there if a person wants to work and has talent.  Today's American kids were all sold the fantasy that is they had a college "degree" they could simply leave college and step into the American Dream.  When they find out no one is hiring, they drop out, or a lot of them do.  Some adapt and start their own businesses. Others work three jobs and save what money they can to invest of start their own businesses.  Anyway, if you take a look at the average yearly incomes for the various ethnic groups in America, you'll see that Asians outperform Caucasians.  My guess is that the Asians are successful because they work harder. The people you see on You/Tube living in tents are there of their own choosing.  Or, perhaps, they have drug problems or mental issues.  Mostly, you see these problems in the big cities on the East or West Coast.  Expensive areas. 

[sqwakvfr]

6 minutes ago, jas007 said:

It doesn't have to be awful.  Everything is there if a person wants to work and has talent.  Today's American kids were all sold the fantasy that is they had a college "degree" they could simply leave college and step into the American Dream.  When they find out no one is hiring, they drop out, or a lot of them do.  Some adapt and start their own businesses. Others work three jobs and save what money they can to invest of start their own businesses.  Anyway, if you take a look at the average yearly incomes for the various ethnic groups in America, you'll see that Asians outperform Caucasians.  My guess is that the Asians are successful because they work harder. The people you see on You/Tube living in tents are there of their own choosing.  Or, perhaps, they have drug problems or mental issues.  Mostly, you see these problems in the big cities on the East or West Coast.  Expensive areas. 

So the simple answer is America still offers great  opportunities for success?  The key is a person must be  willing to work hard and start at the bottom reglardless of social status or national origin.  Kind of sound like me:  A poor kid who was born in Busan and was able to join the US Army as a legal residen alien who becaame a naturalized American citizen with the assitance of an Army Jag officer.  Yes, I have had my share of prejudice, discrimination and blatant racism but it is a vast country and finding a place of accpetance is not always easy but achievalbe.  Maybe Sweden is better but doubt they would ever let me stay for more than 90 days. 

[Lacessit]

16 hours ago, novacova said:

Note the OP…

 

American exceptionalism has nothing to do with being better off than others or doing offensive stuff, is why folks such as yourself lack the basic concept of what the foundation of America is about: freedom of speech/expression is the epitome of self ownership and capitalism. The US has led the way in human freedoms and capitalism for the western world, where and how would you be now if the US never existed? Under the control of a dictatorial regime no doubt. So you lefties should really open your eyes a little.

Before you get too far up yourself about freedom, might I point out women got the vote in Australia in 1902.

 

Women did not get the vote in the USA until 1920.

[mikebike]

17 hours ago, Keep Right said:

These people do not migrate to Haiti or the Sudan but to the country that offers them the most opportunity and in that lies the exceptionalism.

The same folks you mention also immigrated to the UK, Canada,Australia, NZ etc... and had the same effects in those countries. Where's the exceptionalism?

[pomchop]

Like many other countries a lot of american citizens are not well traveled or well read and have no clue as to how good they have it compared to billions of other people around the world who were not lucky enough to be born a white american male. AKA born on third base.

[jas007]

2 hours ago, sqwakvfr said:

So the simple answer is America still offers great  opportunities for success?  The key is a person must be  willing to work hard and start at the bottom reglardless of social status or national origin.  Kind of sound like me:  A poor kid who was born in Busan and was able to join the US Army as a legal residen alien who becaame a naturalized American citizen with the assitance of an Army Jag officer.  Yes, I have had my share of prejudice, discrimination and blatant racism but it is a vast country and finding a place of accpetance is not always easy but achievalbe.  Maybe Sweden is better but doubt they would ever let me stay for more than 90 days. 

That about sums it up.  No one is necessarily going to give you anything, but if you're willing to be flexible and look for opportunities, they are there.  

[riclag]

21 hours ago, novacova said:

It is. That is what makes it exceptional.

Big cities across the globe are riddled with crime, with the exception of a small few such as Tokyo. Rural America and small cities are very safe. You watch the television news and you’d be under the delusion that crime is rampant everywhere. It’s not.
Try voicing your political views in much of the world and you’ll find great disappointment. In the US anyone and everyone has absolute freedom to express their political opinions and can even flip the bird and yell FU! to the cops without fear of being arrested or plugged full of lead.

Envy. 

America doesn’t have a distorted view of itself. Some Americans disenfranchise themselves for lack of ambition and develop negative views through peers and their own self imposed oppression.

Brilliant defense !

There is however a problem in the  Ivy League  community where academics are free to speak & teach their  views 

of capitalist Societies without being questioned ! The mind numbing is called indoctrination of useful idiots!

The only way to stop this madness is not sending kids there !

or sending in A group of America First scholars to re assess the curriculum.

[riclag]

17 hours ago, novacova said:

Note the OP…

 

American exceptionalism has nothing to do with being better off than others or doing offensive stuff, is why folks such as yourself lack the basic concept of what the foundation of America is about: freedom of speech/expression is the epitome of self ownership and capitalism. The US has led the way in human freedoms and capitalism for the western world, where and how would you be now if the US never existed? Under the control of a dictatorial regime no doubt. So you lefties should really open your eyes a little.

Brilliant 

[Chris Daley]

I'm just glad I won't be getting shot at school or contracting AIDS.

[ericthai]

 

On 11/30/2024 at 5:27 AM, jvs said:

Free speech is over rated ,not much to brag about when you are allowed to hurt/offend others just because you can.

Have you traveled a lot and seen other cultures and worked over seas?

 

it's sad you dont understand how powerful free speech is.  Why do allot of governments try to prevent free speech!

Free speech can bring down governments!! 

 

 

 

[swissie]

On 11/30/2024 at 11:23 AM, Walker88 said:

I have a rough idea what “American Exceptionalism” means to those who use the term, but I also think exceptional isn’t clearly defined. To some extent. America is an acquired taste.

 

I do think the original goal of the Founders is exceptional, and what they intended the country to work toward is now taken for granted by the majority of people around the world, which is that everyone is equal by law and has unalienable rights simply by virtue of existing. Madison and Jefferson borrowed from Locke, Rousseau, Descartes and others, and they also seemed to know the Founders were flawed men, so they set up a flexible and dynamic system that could and would adjust as social mores changed. Thus, what started out as rights primarily for white male landowners developed over time to include both genders and all ethnicities, and became independent of wealth.

 

That foundation drew in people seeking more freedom and a chance to become whatever their skills, talents and ambition could make them. I do think it was, and remains, easier for anybody to rise to the top of society in the US, regardless of place, manner or circumstances of birth, than anywhere else in the world. That belief makes for greater efficiency, as brilliance is not held back because of wealth or lack thereof, of family connections, of ethnicity or belief system, or gender. It is hardly a surprise, given that view plus a sizeable population, that the US regularly leads in invention, discovery, Nobel Prizes, etc.

 

Whether this continues or not is a matter open to speculation and discussion. The trend toward excessive nationalistic views, often falling along racial lines, and the current political system that attacks what the Founders specifically established, threatens everything the US became. Tossing out the Constitution (for the Bible, per some elected officials), changing the 1st Amendment as 47 has said he would like, and the Supreme Court recently obviating equality under the law by determining a President is virtually a monarch, do not bode well for continued exceptionalism, but rather a decline into mediocrity or worse. The Constitution and the system of checks and balances, where three branches of government share power, have worked pretty well for 250 years, but it is all at risk right now.

 

Of course there are other matters that detract from anything approaching exceptional, if that term is to be defined positively. High rates of violence and high rates of incarceration are hardly positive. The qini coefficient is pretty high, but not even as high as Thailand. Lack of understanding basic civics and what the actual founding principles of the country are---which even the Supreme Court seems to have forgotten---add to the risk it can all fall apart. America was late to toss out slavery, too. On the other hand, the US is probably the reason Colonialism and Imperialism died. For example the US could have simply taken over all Middle East oil fields, playing like everyone in history from Alexander to Genghis Khan to the British Empire, but it didn't do it. Having the power to do virtually anything it wanted---especially right after WWII---and NOT doing what it easily could have done, is rather exceptional.

 

The country always has been a work in progress, with periods of time things became better and moved toward the goal of total equality under the law, and periods where the country fell off trend. It is falling off trend now, and its survival is by no means assured. Personally, I do not think it survives the next four years as a single, united unit, but breaks down in a combination of social upheaval and perhaps even a number of States seceding, a la 1860, albeit this time for freedom, not to oppress on the basis of skin color.

I said it before and I am not shy to repeat it. Walker 88 is a true asset to this forum.

I would even go as far as make it obligatory to distribute his writings in every high school in the US, making it "a must read". 

[bendejo]

16 hours ago, HappyExpat57 said:

18 hours ago, Ben Zioner said:

Was thinking about re-watching the Handmaid's tale, before the last season comes out...

Better do it before The White Christian Nationalists put it on a "banned" list just like they've done with books.

 

Pick up the book instead, it also has an explanation of how it came to that.

I didn't see the series, have no intention to.  They made a movie of it 30+ years ago with Robert Duvall, not very good IMO.

 

Yes, I agree that the next president could very well start a national book banning campaign.  He is probably gauging whether or not based on what that meatball guy is doing in FLorida.  If he does it, he'll do the whole culture war fireworks, the country is under threat, Fox on-air employees constantly repeating the catch-phrase they'll cook up,  and so on.

 

[alex8912]

18 hours ago, jas007 said:

It doesn't have to be awful.  Everything is there if a person wants to work and has talent.  Today's American kids were all sold the fantasy that is they had a college "degree" they could simply leave college and step into the American Dream.  When they find out no one is hiring, they drop out, or a lot of them do.  Some adapt and start their own businesses. Others work three jobs and save what money they can to invest of start their own businesses.  Anyway, if you take a look at the average yearly incomes for the various ethnic groups in America, you'll see that Asians outperform Caucasians.  My guess is that the Asians are successful because they work harder. The people you see on You/Tube living in tents are there of their own choosing.  Or, perhaps, they have drug problems or mental issues.  Mostly, you see these problems in the big cities on the East or West Coast.  Expensive areas. 

I'm from Boston and don't understand your post about US East Coast cities.  You sound like a square state person. But you must know nothing about how bad Chicago, Minneapolis, Denver, St Louis , Cleveland, Memphis and Houston are.  

[runamok27]

On 11/30/2024 at 2:27 AM, jvs said:

Can you explain why?

Do you believe people in the US are better off than people in Europe?

Is being able to flip the police off a part of being/feeling free?

Tell me please what freedom you have that others don't?

Being able to carry a gun imo is nothing to be proud off.

Free speech is over rated ,not much to brag about when you are allowed to hurt/offend others just because you can.

Have you traveled a lot and seen other cultures and worked over seas?

 

It depends on what you mean by better off. For some, America is the greatest place  to live and for some it isn't. One thing that is absolutely true is that more people want to come to America than any other place in the world and also absolutely true, we allow more people into our country than anybody else. For the most part, these folks are doing well and living good lives. 

 

The problem with making these comparisons is that it all depends on what you value the most. You ask for examples for freedoms and then denigrate the most obvious answers but that its what you think. Other people don't necessarily think or value those freedoms the same as you do. Just because you don't like a particular place doesn't mean everybody else sees it like you do. 

 

People should just evaluate wherever they would like to live for themselves and make a decision. You are not more right for whatever decision you make and they are not either.

[flexomike]

17 hours ago, Lacessit said:

Before you get too far up yourself about freedom, might I point out women got the vote in Australia in 1902.

 

Women did not get the vote in the USA until 1920.

Wow, I sure will be able to sleep better at night knowing that.

[sqwakvfr]

16 hours ago, jas007 said:

That about sums it up.  No one is necessarily going to give you anything, but if you're willing to be flexible and look for opportunities, they are there.  

This young lady who arrived from a country called Thailand is finding her exceptional opportunity like I did. I beleive she has been in the US for about 5 years.

 

[Lacessit]

29 minutes ago, flexomike said:

Wow, I sure will be able to sleep better at night knowing that.

I was under the impression most Americans slept with a gun under their pillow, pet-eating Haitians, Commies.......

[sqwakvfr]

29 minutes ago, Lacessit said:

I was under the impression most Americans slept with a gun under their pillow, pet-eating Haitians, Commies.......

No I had a gun safe. Very few Haitians in my old neighborhood but many who believed in socialism for others were in my area. 

[flexomike]

1 hour ago, Lacessit said:

I was under the impression most Americans slept with a gun under their pillow, pet-eating Haitians, Commies.......

More misinformation in your part, what is your obsession with bashing Americans, is that village life messing up your perception of reality.

[Thingamabob]

As a Brit I have always been impressed, and many times cheered up, by the exceptional optimism of American friends even when they face trying circumstances.

[jas007]

2 hours ago, alex8912 said:

I'm from Boston and don't understand your post about US East Coast cities.  You sound like a square state person. But you must know nothing about how bad Chicago, Minneapolis, Denver, St Louis , Cleveland, Memphis and Houston are.  

I was born in upstate New York. I've lived all over the US, including NYC, the DC area, and California.  I've also lived in middle America.  Granted, I haven't spent much time recently exploring the cities you mention, but in general, I'd say homeless people living in tents would probably be inclined to gravitate towards cities with a milder climate, such as Southern California.  That's not always true, though.  Maybe they just don't know any better?