Thai tax tangle: Expats warned of new rules on overseas income

[snoop1130]

Photo courtesy of Expatica

 

By Puntid Tantivangphaisal

 

A packed meeting of the Pattaya City Expat Club turned into a lively debate as members received crucial updates on Thailand’s controversial new tax policy regarding overseas income transfers.

 

Hosted by Thomas Carden, director of American International Tax Advisers, and tax attorney Patcha Inkudanonda, the session offered clarity, and raised fresh concerns, about the Thai Revenue Department’s evolving guidelines.

 

Patcha explained that not all expats are required to file Thai tax returns. Exemptions apply to those in Thailand for less than 180 days in 2024, individuals who haven’t transferred money from abroad, those who only moved income earned before December 31, 2023, and holders of the 10-year Long Term Residence (LTR) Visa. For others, the advice is clear: obtain a tax identification number and file a return by March 2025.

 

“All foreign income must be declared but this doesn’t always mean a tax liability.”

 

 

In a surprise revelation, it was disclosed that foreign credit card usage in Thailand, if converted to Thai baht, is now considered taxable income. Carden urged expats to carefully review double taxation treaties between Thailand and their home countries but noted these are not blanket exemptions.

 

“Each treaty has unique terms, referencing them in tax submissions could help as a caveat.”

 

Attendees raised questions about investment transfers, such as using overseas funds to buy a Thai condominium, but Carden admitted such matters remain unclear. He acknowledged the Revenue Department’s intent to widen the tax base, with small earners inadvertently caught in policies aimed at wealthy Thais, reported Pattaya Mail.

 

Concerns about enforcement were addressed, with Patcha citing international agreements like the Global Forum on Transparency, enabling Thai officials to request banking information globally. Both experts urged expats to retain detailed records of foreign transactions to avoid audits and potential penalties.

 

Source: The Thaiger

-- 2025-01-15

 

 

[sungod]

A lively debate where everyone left more confused than when they arrived no doubt.

[MikeandDow]

Just now, sungod said:

A lively debate where everyone left more confused than when they arrived no doubt.

They will have to be knocking on my door before i fill out any of there BS

[sungod]

Just now, MikeandDow said:

They will have to be knocking on my door before i fill out any of there BS

I believe that to be the right approach.

[soi3eddie]

14 minutes ago, snoop1130 said:

the session offered clarity,

 

Really? What was there new that hadn't been discussed already? 

 

[Airalee]

10 minutes ago, snoop1130 said:

“All foreign income must be declared but this doesn’t always mean a tax liability.”

Clear as mud

 

11 minutes ago, snoop1130 said:

In a surprise revelation, it was disclosed that foreign credit card usage in Thailand, if converted to Thai baht, is now considered taxable income.

So then what if you pay in dollars?  I can choose baht or USD at my hospital.

 

Again…clear as mud

 

12 minutes ago, snoop1130 said:

Carden urged expats to carefully review double taxation treaties between Thailand and their home countries but noted these are not blanket exemptions.

Ok….so the person offering his advice is essentially saying “do your own homework”

 

Why hire him?   Makes no sense.

13 minutes ago, snoop1130 said:

Attendees raised questions about investment transfers, such as using overseas funds to buy a Thai condominium, but Carden admitted such matters remain unclear.

Perhaps Carden should have cleared that up then?  
 

The professional didn’t think of doing some legwork to find out more?

 

Some professional 🙄
 

15 minutes ago, snoop1130 said:

Both experts urged expats to retain detailed records of foreign transactions to avoid audits and potential penalties.

Clear as mud.

 

 

 

 

I certainly wouldn’t hire these guys.

[Jingthing]

Misinformation.

No need to get a TIN or file unless your remitted  accessable income is over the threshold.

For example if you're only remitting exempt US social security no need for tin or to file.

[sungod]

2 minutes ago, soi3eddie said:

 

Really? What was there new that hadn't been discussed already? 

 

 Money for Condos- Carden admitted such matters remain unclear, hope that clears it up.

[Upnotover]

Sounds like yet another sales pitch from "American International Tax Advisers".  

[soi3eddie]

1 minute ago, Upnotover said:

Sounds like yet another sales pitch from "American International Tax Advisers".  

The lawyers and tax advisors are falling over themselves in the "land grab" to recruit gullible clients at present. One, in particular, on YouTube is getting totally unhinged about this. 

 

[Airalee]

3 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

Misinformation.

No need to get a TIN or file unless your remitted  accessable income is over the threshold.

For example if you're only remitting exempt US social security no need for tin or to file.

Even when you haven’t known the answers, you provide far better tax advice than these so called professionals.

[stubuzz]

If you transfered money to buy proerty, would this be taxed?

[NoDisplayName]

38 minutes ago, snoop1130 said:

“Each treaty has unique terms, referencing them in tax submissions could help as a caveat.”

 

No can.

 

Unpossible online.

 

Forms have no provision to claim, or even reference, tax treaties.

 

Can only be done in person, with the aid of a helpful PAID advisor.

[Jingthing]

I get why people are flocking to this space.

To "help" expats with their Thai taxes.

They have a lot of pricing power!

Dealing with tax implications for two or more countries they can justify charging a lot. 

I do my U.S. taxes online for either free or 40 dollars max.

But these Thai tax "expert" "specialists" here are really taking people to the cleaners or at least trying to. 

I'm not saying there aren't some credible and qualified people in the space who apparently legally need to be Thai nationals.

But buyer beware big time on this one!

[TheAppletons]

Yawn.  Another for profit tax advisor sowing fear and confusion in an attempt to drum up business.

 

Criminal misinformation/misdirection.  

 

“All foreign income must be declared but this doesn’t always mean a tax liability.”  That's a straight up lie.

 

1 hour ago, snoop1130 said:

In a surprise revelation, it was disclosed that foreign credit card usage in Thailand, if converted to Thai baht, is now considered taxable income

 

  Yeah, good luck with that.  

[Upnotover]

22 minutes ago, stubuzz said:

If you transfered money to buy proerty, would this be taxed?

 

Clearly answered in the OP.....

50 minutes ago, snoop1130 said:

Attendees raised questions about investment transfers, such as using overseas funds to buy a Thai condominium, but Carden admitted such matters remain unclear.

 

[Jingthing]

There is a way you can definitely avoid any chance of being liable for Thai tax if remitting money to buy a condo.

Do not be a Thai tax resident that year! Period. Sorted. 

[BritManToo]

1 hour ago, snoop1130 said:

 

Hosted by Thomas Carden, director of American International Tax Advisers, and tax attorney Patcha Inkudanonda, the session offered clarity, and raised fresh concerns, about the Thai Revenue Department’s evolving guidelines.

 

Do either of these guys work for the Thai tax authorities?

If not, their advice is not relevant IMHO.

[Briggsy]

What would be the incentive to file?

 

Let me give you some completely hypothetical examples.

 

1. They refuse to extend your permission to stay unless you provide proof you have filed a tax return.

2. They issue an estimated assessment for a year you did not file.

3. They issue a fine for a year you did not file.

4. The Thai bank freezes your bank account unless you provide proof you have filed a tax return.

 

Currently these all seem very unlikely.

 

So I am back to my original question, what would be the incentive to file a Thai tax return.

[nglodnig]

If this talk was from TRD I would believe it - instead it is from a bunch of tax lawyers drooling at the thought of doing tax returns for all the ex-pats.

Not worth the OHP slide it was written on.

[scorecard]

1 hour ago, sungod said:

I believe that to be the right approach.

There's another item that still needs clarification 'income'.

 

Previous answers seemed to suggest that (for example) Oz old age pensions transferred automatically to Thai bank accounts are not classified as 'income'.

 

But we still wait and see. 

[Briggsy]

Just out of interest, a high street accountant in the UK would generally charge around £200 for a relatively straightforward annual tax return. e.g. a self-employed 360 driver.

[hunkidori]

1 hour ago, Upnotover said:

Sounds like yet another sales pitch from "American International Tax Advisers".  

And that's exactly all it is.  And it's opportunists like these that are trying to scaremonger people into using their unnecessary services.

[nglodnig]

2 hours ago, snoop1130 said:

enabling Thai officials to request banking information globally

Good luck with that. I'm a Brit but after Barclays kicked me out I don't have a UK bank account.  How are they going to trace me - black magic? Dowsing rods?

[Moonlover]

36 minutes ago, Briggsy said:

What would be the incentive to file?

 

Let me give you some completely hypothetical examples.

 

1. They refuse to extend your permission to stay unless you provide proof you have filed a tax return.

2. They issue an estimated assessment for a year you did not file.

3. They issue a fine for a year you did not file.

4. The Thai bank freezes your bank account unless you provide proof you have filed a tax return.

 

Currently these all seem very unlikely.

 

So I am back to my original question, what would be the incentive to file a Thai tax return.

And just to add to that, were the TRD to go chasing around tracking down all us 'miscreants', they would find that most retirees won't owe them any money. Most of us are protected by DTAs in various forms or are drawing pensions that cannot be taxed in any other country anyway.

 

The yield IMO would not be worth the effort and I wouldn't like to contemplate the anguish it might cause amongst the community.

 

Let sleeping dogs lie is, by far their best policy.

[lordgrinz]

Still waiting to see the guinea pigs go through the motions later this year, when all the ranting, raving, and possible tears have subsided, I can get back to transferring money with more knowledge of the consequences.

[gamb00ler]

3 hours ago, snoop1130 said:

Hosted by Thomas Carden

This is the guy with deluded claims that US citizens can withdraw tax free from their IRAs/401Ks if residing in Thailand.  Stay away!

[MikeandDow]

1 hour ago, Moonlover said:

And just to add to that, were the TRD to go chasing around tracking down all us 'miscreants', they would find that most retirees won't owe them any money. Most of us are protected by DTAs in various forms or are drawing pensions that cannot be taxed in any other country anyway.

 

The yield IMO would not be worth the effort and I wouldn't like to contemplate the anguish it might cause amongst the community.

 

Let sleeping dogs lie is, by far their best policy.

Totally agree, Its never been thought out properly, How are they going to implement this ,how are they going to enforce it, as for me i will just wait till they knock on the door !! never paid Tax for over 15yrs  not going to start now

[gamb00ler]

3 hours ago, Airalee said:

So then what if you pay in dollars?  I can choose baht or USD at my hospital.

I think it's unlikely that you can pay in US$ with a credit or debit card in Thailand.  Usually the hospital's agreements with the VISA/MasterCard processing companies would limit them to Thai ฿ transactions.  In the US those companies insist all purchases are processed in the local currency (US$).

 

I think paying with US currency would be easily accomplished.

[MikeandDow]

6 minutes ago, gamb00ler said:

I think it's unlikely that you can pay in US$ with a credit or debit card in Thailand.  Usually the hospital's agreements with the VISA/MasterCard processing companies would limit them to Thai ฿ transactions.  In the US those companies insist all purchases are processed in the local currency (US$).

 

I think paying with US currency would be easily accomplished.

 Yes, you can use a credit or debit card to pay in US$ in Thailand, but you should be aware of fees and exchange rates.