Trump’s Bold Proposal to End Gaza’s Cycle of Suffering

[Yagoda]

3 hours ago, Jingthing said:

Sane washing garbage.

His plan will never happen.

This is all a DIVERSION to what's actually happening with the destruction of the American government by Musk.

They told us what they were going to do and now they're doing it. 

Flood the zone with caca plus Project 2025.

"Project 2025."

 "Destruction of the Government by Musk"

 

Maybe we should have a special section for obsessive Trump derangement rants devoid of reality.

[Eric Loh]

11 minutes ago, Bkk Brian said:

Rubbish, that statement I linked to is only a couple of weeks old.

 

Here's another Hamas leader:

 

Senior Hamas officer openly rejects two-state solution, calls for Israel’s demise

Mashal also acknowledged that Hamas was never an organization that would just govern Gaza after it came to power in 2007 but one that would destroy the Jewish state.

The Hamas leader said his group’s Oct. 7 attack on Israel, which claimed the lives of more than 1,200 people, mainly civilians, was a clear indicator that his group could do just that.

“I believe that the dream and the hope for Palestine from the river to the sea and from the north to the south has been renewed,” he said, referencing a chant that calls for the erasure of Israel. 

https://nypost.com/2024/01/22/news/senior-hamas-officer-openly-rejects-two-state-solution-calls-for-israels-demise/

 

 

Mashal is not the chairman of the Hamas Political Bureau that holds the real power. The position is currently vacant. If he is elected, then we take his words seriously. 

[LarryLEB]

Regarding a Two-State Solution and Its Continued Rejection by Palestinian authorities...

 

The 1947 United Nations Partition Plan proposed a 3-way division of Palestine (with Jerusalem held separately under international control).   This plan was rejected by the Arab Higher Committee and the Arab League (among other Arab leaders and governments).  The Partition Plan, would have seen an Arab state over 42.88% of the land and a Jewish state over 56.47% of the land, with the internationally-administered Jerusalem comprising the remainder of the land.  (from The Evolution of Borders of Palestine Throughout Modern History; Bashar Jumaa)

 

At a two-week Camp David conference in 2000, Clinton read a proposal to Yasser Arafat (a proposal which had been endorsed in advance by Israel).  The proposal, as read, included "the establishment of a demilitarised Palestinian state on some 92% of the West Bank and 100% of the Gaza Strip, with some territorial compensation for the Palestinians from pre-1967 Israeli territory; the dismantling of most of the settlements and the concentration of the bulk of the settlers inside the 8% of the West Bank to be annexed by Israel; the establishment of the Palestinian capital in east Jerusalem, in which some Arab neighborhoods would become sovereign Palestinian territory and others would enjoy "functional autonomy"; Palestinian sovereignty over half the Old City of Jerusalem (the Muslim and Christian quarters) and "custodianship," though not sovereignty, over the Temple Mount; a return of refugees to the prospective Palestinian state though with no "right of return" to Israel proper; and the organisation by the international community of a massive aid programme to facilitate the refugees' rehabilitation."  [the bold font is mine] (article from The Guardian, May 2002)

 

 Yasser Arafat rejected the proposal and offered no alternatives.  In fact, Arafat didn't negotiate at all.   

 

In 2017, Hamas, in its Charter, said that Hamas considers Palestine to be based on its June 4, 1967 borders.

 

Palestinian authorities have never wanted a two-state solution.  

 

 

[Yagoda]

34 minutes ago, Bkk Brian said:

Rubbish, that statement I linked to is only a couple of weeks old.

 

Here's another Hamas leader:

 

Senior Hamas officer openly rejects two-state solution, calls for Israel’s demise

Mashal also acknowledged that Hamas was never an organization that would just govern Gaza after it came to power in 2007 but one that would destroy the Jewish state.

The Hamas leader said his group’s Oct. 7 attack on Israel, which claimed the lives of more than 1,200 people, mainly civilians, was a clear indicator that his group could do just that.

“I believe that the dream and the hope for Palestine from the river to the sea and from the north to the south has been renewed,” he said, referencing a chant that calls for the erasure of Israel. 

https://nypost.com/2024/01/22/news/senior-hamas-officer-openly-rejects-two-state-solution-calls-for-israels-demise/

 

 

https://www.tabletmag.com/sections/israel-middle-east/articles/end-of-palestine

 

I think the above article sets forth the entire situation quite well. I share many of his opinions, including the crystallization of my opinion that Israel haters are eliminationist anti semites in the traditional European sense.

 

If there are any Jews residing in Europe reading this, I would urge you to emigrate to America.  Jew hating is not only bred into  the religions of Europe, but is a feature of the Socialism they love. Add to the fact that Europe is now becoming a modern day caliphate and y'all need to get out. Come to the USA where Jew haters are usually despised as loons and, you can carry a 1911 to a synagogue. You can even walk around with the funny hats and folks wont f with you.

 

Thats being said, its the Jew haters who would oppose such a creative plan to clear out this small section of barbarity. Their solution to the problem is not to help the Gazans, just keep the fires stoked until all the Jews are eliminated.

 

 

[Bkk Brian]

14 minutes ago, Eric Loh said:

Mashal is not the chairman of the Hamas Political Bureau that holds the real power. The position is currently vacant. If he is elected, then we take his words seriously. 

Deflection from the facts. Your obviously a Hamas apologist.

 

You can't even get that right, the Hamas Political Bureau (Head Terrorist) position became vacant after the murderous tunnel rate was killed fighting in Gaza while he sat on a chair and got a nice drone attack him.  It is now his brother who is hiding in Gaza Mohammed Sinwar.

 

 

How Oct. 7 mastermind’s elusive little brother Mohammad Sinwar, known as ‘The Shadow,’ rebuilt Hamas despite 15 months of brutal war with Israel: ‘Carries a lot of clout’

https://nypost.com/2025/01/26/world-news/how-oct-7-masterminds-brother-mohammad-sinwar-rebuilt-hamas/

 

[Eric Loh]

1 minute ago, Bkk Brian said:

Deflection from the facts.

 

You can't even get that right, the Hamas Political Bureau (Head) position became vacant after the murderous tunnel rate was killed fighting in Gaza while he sat on a chair and got a nice drone attack him.  It is now his brother who is hiding in Gaza Mohammed Sinwar.

 

He actually masterminded the atrocities on Oct 7th.

 

How Oct. 7 mastermind’s elusive little brother Mohammad Sinwar, known as ‘The Shadow,’ rebuilt Hamas despite 15 months of brutal war with Israel: ‘Carries a lot of clout’

https://nypost.com/2025/01/26/world-news/how-oct-7-masterminds-brother-mohammad-sinwar-rebuilt-hamas/

 

True but he is not the chairman of the Hamas Political Bureau and thus no political power. By the way, Hamas is a political party and do not represent the Palestine people. PLO represent the Palestine people. 

[Thingamabob]

1 hour ago, OneMoreFarang said:

How many of them like Israel and Israelis? 

None.

[Bkk Brian]

21 minutes ago, Eric Loh said:

True but he is not the chairman of the Hamas Political Bureau and thus no political power. By the way, Hamas is a political party and do not represent the Palestine people. PLO represent the Palestine people. 

More evidence that you are a Hamas apologist. 

 

Every post and claim you've made I've corrected for you. Your now attempting to claim Hamas is a political party, yet its headed by an evil terrorist and its top officials are calling for Israel to be wiped out. It carried out the worst massacre of Jews since the Holocaust and is proud of it. It has promised to carry out more until Israel is wiped out.

 

It is also officially designated as a terrorist organization by numerous countries and it does indeed represent the people of Gaza currently but hopefully not for much longer. Even the PA is fighting Hamas now in the West Bank with Israel helping them

 

Enough of your terrorist propoganda

 

Palestinian Authority security forces are battling militants from Hamas and its allies in the occupied West Bank

https://www.wsj.com/world/middle-east/the-palestinian-authority-takes-on-hamas-militants-in-west-bank-power-struggle-f2da23d2

https://archive.ph/XSPqM

 

 

[Thingamabob]

1 hour ago, Chomper Higgot said:

Having lived and worked in the region for many years I’d be surprised if any locals voiced their opinions in the matter to you.

 

Yes the restructuring needs to start with recognition of the Palestinian State.

 

That’s the internationally accepted solution.Tef

Regarding your comment expressing surprise that 'locals' would voice an opinion on the matter the answer is, they do, quite openly with foreigners they know well and trust. They are, however, far more guarded in discussion with other locals.

 

Regarding the recognition of a Palestinian state, that is indeed the objective of the (somewhat detached) international community. However, for those who actually live in the region it's a case of dream on. As I have said, a far more radical approach is needed if a lasting peace is to be achieved.

[Jingthing]

2 hours ago, Chomper Higgot said:

The solution exists.

 

It’s preceded by the words ‘Two State’.

 

 

That ship has sailed.

[candide]

54 minutes ago, LarryLEB said:

Regarding a Two-State Solution and Its Continued Rejection by Palestinian authorities...

 

The 1947 United Nations Partition Plan proposed a 3-way division of Palestine (with Jerusalem held separately under international control).   This plan was rejected by the Arab Higher Committee and the Arab League (among other Arab leaders and governments).  The Partition Plan, would have seen an Arab state over 42.88% of the land and a Jewish state over 56.47% of the land, with the internationally-administered Jerusalem comprising the remainder of the land.  (from The Evolution of Borders of Palestine Throughout Modern History; Bashar Jumaa)

 

At a two-week Camp David conference in 2000, Clinton read a proposal to Yasser Arafat (a proposal which had been endorsed in advance by Israel).  The proposal, as read, included "the establishment of a demilitarised Palestinian state on some 92% of the West Bank and 100% of the Gaza Strip, with some territorial compensation for the Palestinians from pre-1967 Israeli territory; the dismantling of most of the settlements and the concentration of the bulk of the settlers inside the 8% of the West Bank to be annexed by Israel; the establishment of the Palestinian capital in east Jerusalem, in which some Arab neighborhoods would become sovereign Palestinian territory and others would enjoy "functional autonomy"; Palestinian sovereignty over half the Old City of Jerusalem (the Muslim and Christian quarters) and "custodianship," though not sovereignty, over the Temple Mount; a return of refugees to the prospective Palestinian state though with no "right of return" to Israel proper; and the organisation by the international community of a massive aid programme to facilitate the refugees' rehabilitation."  [the bold font is mine] (article from The Guardian, May 2002)

 

 Yasser Arafat rejected the proposal and offered no alternatives.  In fact, Arafat didn't negotiate at all.   

 

In 2017, Hamas, in its Charter, said that Hamas considers Palestine to be based on its June 4, 1967 borders.

 

Palestinian authorities have never wanted a two-state solution.  

 

 

 

Not as simple as you present it, Palestinian would actually have received 73%, possibly extensible to a maximum of 92% (by Israel definition of the West Bank. On top of it, the Palestinian territory would have not been contiguous.

 

Arafat didn't not trust the Israeli for the extension and thought he was being scammed. He may have been right, in particular when considering that the Israeli RW was against it.

 

 

"Based on the Israeli definition of the West Bank, Barak offered to form a Palestinian state initially on 73% of the West Bank (that is, 27% less than the Green Line borders) and 100% of the Gaza Strip. In 10–25 years, the Palestinian state would expand to a maximum of 92% of the West Bank (91 percent of the West Bank and 1 percent from a land swap).[14][16] From the Palestinian perspective this equated to an offer of a Palestinian state on a maximum of 86% of the West Bank.[14]"

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2000_Camp_David_Summit

[Yagoda]

5 hours ago, Paul Henry said:

Australia may send its elite SAS soldiers to Puerto Rico (The floating garbage dump island. Trump campaign 2024) and move all resiidence 5 miles away from any coast line. Australia will then invite its billionaires and their wealthy friends to develop the coastline to internanational resorts for the world citizens.This will clean up the garbage dump and create jobs for the local impoverished people, It is not expected that Donald Trump will contest or critise this wonderfull endeavour by Australia.

He will agree its OK to invade and take over another Soverign Territory as long as he and his family can "assist" in the redevelopment. The alternative is he proposes to the Australian Government is that he and his oligarch friend wil redevelop this dump to asist it poor population and welcome it as a US Territory of which the US could be proud.

5 or 6 Puerto Rican gangbangers should be able to take care of that. You guys have billionaires?

[Eloquent pilgrim]

2 hours ago, OneMoreFarang said:

In theory a two state solution would be the answer. That is the answer since decades. But the USA and Israel obviously don't want that.

 

Oh, and Hamas on the other hand, do want that eh ?

 

Is that why on 7 October 2023, they invaded Israel and slaughtered, raped and burned to death 1,200 Israeli citizens, and took 250 hostage, some of which they are still holding; they did that because they want a two state solution eh ?

 

Righto, thanks for the edification; is there no limit to the incredulity that apologists for a terrorist organisation like yourself will not stoop to (rhetorical)

 

 

 

[OneMoreFarang]

4 minutes ago, Eloquent pilgrim said:

 

Oh, and Hamas on the other hand, do want that eh ?

 

Is that why on 7 October 2023, they invaded Israel and slaughtered, raped and burned to death 1,200 Israeli citizens, and took 250 hostage, some of which they are still holding; they did that because they want a two state solution eh ?

 

Righto, thanks for the edification; is there no limit to the incredulity that apologists for a terrorist organisation like yourself will not stoop to (rhetorical)

 

Israel is occupying Palestinian land - not the other way around.

 

[Chomper Higgot]

2 hours ago, mfd101 said:

So what is the alternative consensus? 2-state solution? That was all ready & agreed in the 70s but, at the last minute, Yasser Arafat couldn't bring himself to sign the piece of paper.

 

If there is a different consensus now, noone seems to have heard of it. Or if they have heard of it, noone wants to implement it, least of all any Arab state, not to mention the Palestinians themselves.

 

It's very difficult to negotiate with your opponent when killing them all has become your God-given mission.

 

 

Theirs isn’t a difference t consensus, other than the two state solution.

 

 

 

[Chomper Higgot]

33 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

That ship has sailed.

Not yet it hasn’t.

The cure r conflict has renewed international support.

 

[retayl]

3 hours ago, OneMoreFarang said:

 

You are right. That is no solution. Like what Trump suggested is no solution.

But for whatever reason some people think forcefully relocating Palestinians is a solution. I guess they could call it "Endlösung".

 

In theory a two state solution would be the answer. That is the answer since decades. But the USA and Israel obviously don't want that.

 

 

Neither does Hamas. Their one state solution requires the total destruction  of Israel.

[soalbundy]

Somehow I feel I should give a $hit.....but I don't.

[OneMoreFarang]

1 minute ago, retayl said:

Neither does Hamas. Their one state solution requires the total destruction  of Israel.

 

The destruction or relocation of Isreal and Israelis is obviously no viable solution.

And the killing or relocation of Palestinian people is also not a viable solution.

But why do Trump and some others pretend one of them is a solution and the other is a crime?

[Eloquent pilgrim]

35 minutes ago, OneMoreFarang said:

 

Israel is occupying Palestinian land - not the other way around.

 

 

So says an apologist for terrorism. Israel withdrew completely from the Gaza strip almost 20 years ago, so they are not occupying Gaza. The only reason their soldiers are in Gaza now, is because of the most inhumane, and barbaric act of terrorism in modern history, which happened on 7 October 2023.

 

Hamas took over the Gaza strip in 2007 from  the Palestinian Authority, and the eradication of all Jews, not just in Israel, but in the entire world, is enshrined in their founding charter …. and you keep defending them; hang your head full of hate in shame; pleased however to see that one of your vile antisemitic posts was removed

 

 

 

 

 

 

[billd766]

4 hours ago, henryford1958 said:

It certainly needs a radical solution. There will never be peace until every Hamas is killed and buried in their tunnels. But i can't see it happening.

Don't forget to put Netanyahu, his war criminal cabinet and all the top IDF generals on trial for war crimes and crimes against humanity as well.

 

That won't happen either as neither Israel nor the USA are signatories to the ICC. (I wonder why not?)

 

 

[OneMoreFarang]

5 minutes ago, Eloquent pilgrim said:

 

So says an apologist for terrorism. Israel withdrew completely from the Gaza strip almost 20 years ago, so they are not occupying Gaza. The only reason their soldiers are in Gaza now, is because of the most inhumane, and barbaric act of terrorism in modern history, which happened on 7 October 2023.

 

Hamas took over the Gaza strip in 2007 from  the Palestinian Authority, and the eradication of all Jews, not just in Israel, but in the entire world, is enshrined in their founding charter …. and you keep defending them; hang your head full of hate in shame; pleased however to see that one of your vile antisemitic posts was removed

 

Read and learn:

https://www.perplexity.ai/search/is-the-following-correct-israe-xwhQqEGjR0yNoNw11hWa_w#0

 

Yes, the statement "Israel is occupying Palestinian land" is correct. Here's a breakdown:

*   **Historical Context:** Israel has occupied the Palestinian territories, which include the West Bank (including East Jerusalem) and the Gaza Strip, since the Six-Day War in 1967[1][6][7]. These territories were previously under the control of Egypt and Jordan[1][7].

*   **International Views:** The International Court of Justice (ICJ), the UN General Assembly, and the UN Security Council all consider Israel to be the occupying power in these territories[1]. The ICJ has stated that Israel's occupation is illegal and that Israel must end its presence "as rapidly as possible"[1][5].

*   **Gaza Strip:** While Israel withdrew its forces from the Gaza Strip in 2005, it still maintains control over the territory's borders, airspace, and territorial waters[1][7]. The UN and various human rights organizations continue to consider Israel as the occupying power[1].

*   **"Disputed Territories"**: While successive Israeli governments have referred to the West Bank as "disputed territories," the international community largely considers them occupied[1].

*   **Settlements:** Israel has been constructing and expanding settlements on occupied Palestinian land, which is a violation of international law and a driving force behind human rights violations[3].

In July 2024, the ICJ issued an advisory opinion stating that Israel's continued presence in the Occupied Palestinian Territory (OPT) is unlawful, and that Israel must end its presence as quickly as possible and cease all settlement activities[5]. The UN General Assembly has also adopted a resolution demanding that Israel end its occupation within 12 months[5].

Citations:
[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israeli-occupied_territories
[2] https://casebook.icrc.org/case-study/israeloccupied-palestinian-territory-occupation-and-natural-resources
[3] https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/campaigns/2017/06/israel-occupation-50-years-of-dispossession/
[4] https://globalaffairs.org/bluemarble/israel-has-occupied-palestinian-territories-1967-un-court-considers-whether-thats-legal
[5] https://www.globalr2p.org/countries/israel-and-the-occupied-palestinian-territory/
[6] https://www.un.org/unispal/history/
[7] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_Palestinian_territories
[8] https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cjerjzxlpvdo

 

 

 

[Bkk Brian]

40 minutes ago, OneMoreFarang said:

 

The destruction or relocation of Isreal and Israelis is obviously no viable solution.

And the killing or relocation of Palestinian people is also not a viable solution.

But why do Trump and some others pretend one of them is a solution and the other is a crime?

More offensive false claims, nobody claimed Killing Palestine people is a solution, how vile of you.

[Chomper Higgot]

1 hour ago, Thingamabob said:

Regarding your comment expressing surprise that 'locals' would voice an opinion on the matter the answer is, they do, quite openly with foreigners they know well and trust. They are, however, far more guarded in discussion with other locals.

 

Regarding the recognition of a Palestinian state, that is indeed the objective of the (somewhat detached) international community. However, for those who actually live in the region it's a case of dream on. As I have said, a far more radical approach is needed if a lasting peace is to be achieved.

Your expertise on the view within the region is in stark contrast to the statements made this week by the Government’s of Jordan, Egypt, Saudi Arabia.

The radical approach is stop the tail wagging the dog and give tge Palestinians their inalienable rights to self determination in their own Palestinian state.

 

 

[Eloquent pilgrim]

26 minutes ago, billd766 said:

Don't forget to put Netanyahu, his war criminal cabinet and all the top IDF generals on trial for war crimes and crimes against humanity as well.

 

That won't happen either as neither Israel nor the USA are signatories to the ICC. (I wonder why not?)

 

 

 

You mean the same ICC whose Chief prosecutor Karim Ahmad Khan is now under investigation for misconduct; the same ICC that the USA have just imposed sanctions on, accusing it of illegitimate and baseless actions.

 

That notwithstanding, I notice that you only want the Israeli Prime Minister, war cabinet, and IDF generals put on trial, but no mention of any Hamas terrorists being put on trial; but that’s because you are an antisemite, and an apologist for Hamas, isn’t it ?

 

 

 

 

[Chomper Higgot]

1 minute ago, Eloquent pilgrim said:

 

You mean the same ICC whose Chief prosecutor Karim Ahmad Khan is now under investigation for misconduct; the same ICC that the USA have just imposed sanctions on, accusing it of illegitimate and baseless actions.

 

That notwithstanding, I notice that you only want the Israeli Prime Minister, war cabinet, and IDF generals put on trial, but no mention of any Hamas terrorists being put on trial; but that’s because you are an antisemite, and an apologist for Hamas, isn’t it ?

 

 

 

 

Yes the same ICC subject to a counter attack.

[Bkk Brian]

23 minutes ago, OneMoreFarang said:

 

Read and learn:

https://www.perplexity.ai/search/is-the-following-correct-israe-xwhQqEGjR0yNoNw11hWa_w#0

 

Yes, the statement "Israel is occupying Palestinian land" is correct. Here's a breakdown:

*   **Historical Context:** Israel has occupied the Palestinian territories, which include the West Bank (including East Jerusalem) and the Gaza Strip, since the Six-Day War in 1967[1][6][7]. These territories were previously under the control of Egypt and Jordan[1][7].

*   **International Views:** The International Court of Justice (ICJ), the UN General Assembly, and the UN Security Council all consider Israel to be the occupying power in these territories[1]. The ICJ has stated that Israel's occupation is illegal and that Israel must end its presence "as rapidly as possible"[1][5].

*   **Gaza Strip:** While Israel withdrew its forces from the Gaza Strip in 2005, it still maintains control over the territory's borders, airspace, and territorial waters[1][7]. The UN and various human rights organizations continue to consider Israel as the occupying power[1].

*   **"Disputed Territories"**: While successive Israeli governments have referred to the West Bank as "disputed territories," the international community largely considers them occupied[1].

*   **Settlements:** Israel has been constructing and expanding settlements on occupied Palestinian land, which is a violation of international law and a driving force behind human rights violations[3].

In July 2024, the ICJ issued an advisory opinion stating that Israel's continued presence in the Occupied Palestinian Territory (OPT) is unlawful, and that Israel must end its presence as quickly as possible and cease all settlement activities[5]. The UN General Assembly has also adopted a resolution demanding that Israel end its occupation within 12 months[5].

Citations:
[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israeli-occupied_territories
[2] https://casebook.icrc.org/case-study/israeloccupied-palestinian-territory-occupation-and-natural-resources
[3] https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/campaigns/2017/06/israel-occupation-50-years-of-dispossession/
[4] https://globalaffairs.org/bluemarble/israel-has-occupied-palestinian-territories-1967-un-court-considers-whether-thats-legal
[5] https://www.globalr2p.org/countries/israel-and-the-occupied-palestinian-territory/
[6] https://www.un.org/unispal/history/
[7] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_Palestinian_territories
[8] https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cjerjzxlpvdo

 

 

 

The member said they withdrew from Gaza around 20 years ago, that is absolutely correct, away with your diversion

[Bkk Brian]

32 minutes ago, billd766 said:

Don't forget to put Netanyahu, his war criminal cabinet and all the top IDF generals on trial for war crimes and crimes against humanity as well.

 

That won't happen either as neither Israel nor the USA are signatories to the ICC. (I wonder why not?)

 

 

Absurd and baseless allegations, much like the ICJ

[Srikcir]

6 hours ago, Cryingdick said:

Sounds good to me. 

Make Australia another US State. Sound good to you?

[Eloquent pilgrim]

3 hours ago, Chomper Higgot said:

Having lived and worked in the region for many years I’d be surprised if any locals voiced their opinions in the matter to you

 

Don’t think for one minute that pretending you lived and worked in the region for many years will give your comments any credence.